British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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My feeling is that the negotiations are now about things such allowances and the disruption agreement, but not about reinstating crew numbers. As I posted a little while ago, the judge agreed with the working of one down and, like it or not, it's here to stay.
I also feel that WW is in a very strong position, given the court victories, the extensive contingency planning for disruption and the reluctance of crew to strike. Yes, they voted to strike as it's easy to put an X on a ballot form, but we all know that only a fraction of them will genuinely withhold their labour as throwing sickies will not be an option this time.
So, WW will get his cost savings and, if he is smart, he will give Unite a lengthy list of concessions. None of these fundamentally undermine the cost reductions which BA badly needs, but will enable Unite to save face and start to build some bridges between BA and CC.
The alternative is that Unite refuses to play ball. In that scenario, they can call a strike but it will be defeated. Unite really has no option but to go for a negotiated settlement.
I also feel that WW is in a very strong position, given the court victories, the extensive contingency planning for disruption and the reluctance of crew to strike. Yes, they voted to strike as it's easy to put an X on a ballot form, but we all know that only a fraction of them will genuinely withhold their labour as throwing sickies will not be an option this time.
So, WW will get his cost savings and, if he is smart, he will give Unite a lengthy list of concessions. None of these fundamentally undermine the cost reductions which BA badly needs, but will enable Unite to save face and start to build some bridges between BA and CC.
The alternative is that Unite refuses to play ball. In that scenario, they can call a strike but it will be defeated. Unite really has no option but to go for a negotiated settlement.
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what wud u settle for
617sqdn
I feel for you and your colleagues in a similar prosition.
Out of what BA has proposed what would be the least unacceptable items. Or could you live with what they have proposed?
At the end of the day it may well be that you have no options but to accept though as there is no-one to negotiate on your behalf.
I feel for you and your colleagues in a similar prosition.
Out of what BA has proposed what would be the least unacceptable items. Or could you live with what they have proposed?
At the end of the day it may well be that you have no options but to accept though as there is no-one to negotiate on your behalf.
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617sqdn
I feel for you and your colleagues in a similar prosition.
Out of what BA has proposed what would be the least unacceptable items. Or could you live with what they have proposed?
At the end of the day it may well be that you have no options but to accept though as there is no-one to negotiate on your behalf.
I feel for you and your colleagues in a similar prosition.
Out of what BA has proposed what would be the least unacceptable items. Or could you live with what they have proposed?
At the end of the day it may well be that you have no options but to accept though as there is no-one to negotiate on your behalf.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Willie has played this dispute incredibly well and totally held his nerve, he has had the cojones to do what others have failed to do......he really must now see this thru to the end, break the cycle of BASSA IA threat every couple of years. Bill Francis has also broken the mould of the other airy fairey 'don't upset them' IFCE GMs....
BA needs to cast off once and for all the civil service mentality, take control, be nimble, reactive and management need to be allowed to manage.
BASSA reps are really for another era, which has long gone. They could find a use in North Korea, mind you..........
BA needs to cast off once and for all the civil service mentality, take control, be nimble, reactive and management need to be allowed to manage.
BASSA reps are really for another era, which has long gone. They could find a use in North Korea, mind you..........
Join Date: Jan 2010
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At the moment,I feel that the BA proposal is fair.I am happy to accept that but no one has asked me.
Bassa did used to negotiate on my behalf.I left as I felt that my money was being wasted.
Now I cannot wear my uniform in public without getting abuse.I even have family who have shouted at me.A passenger told me I should be sacked and be ashamed of myself.
Rock and hard place.
Bassa did used to negotiate on my behalf.I left as I felt that my money was being wasted.
Now I cannot wear my uniform in public without getting abuse.I even have family who have shouted at me.A passenger told me I should be sacked and be ashamed of myself.
Rock and hard place.
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So I think the late night meetings at Waterworld are going to go on for a while with the planners awaiting the next move. A great turnout today with the bonus of a little market to shop around prior to going into the meeting. Now I love this little delay it will make Willie and Billy pause for a moment to reflect on where they want to go next. I feel that we are nearing a turning point in this dispute and I would be quite happy to see a fair deal agreed. Please make no mistake we are ready to strike feelings are running high so if no deal is reached we are ready to walk.
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Www, for once you are talking sense, not crowing garbage, so maybe, just maybe there is hope yet. If there is to be a deal, it will have to be a huge climb down for BASSA.
I firmly believe the fate of the CC lies in the hands of Willie now. If he shows leniency on the legacy crews, BASSAs lies will be shown for the bile laden hot air they are.
I firmly believe the fate of the CC lies in the hands of Willie now. If he shows leniency on the legacy crews, BASSAs lies will be shown for the bile laden hot air they are.
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No Watersidewonker, you are obviously not "ready to walk".
If BASSA was ready to walk they would have announced a strike date and length, sent notice to BA, and continued talking up to the strike date.
BASSA didn't do that...they blinked.
The situation represents positives and negatives for BA, but it sends a clear message that BASSA is wavering.
Good luck in negotiations.
If BASSA was ready to walk they would have announced a strike date and length, sent notice to BA, and continued talking up to the strike date.
BASSA didn't do that...they blinked.
The situation represents positives and negatives for BA, but it sends a clear message that BASSA is wavering.
Good luck in negotiations.
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Litebulbs #1500
Where are you getting your £400m improvement in the financials from? The consensus forecasts I'm looking at suggest BA's loss for the year is now expected to be ~£565m. Prior to the Q3 trading statement, consensus forecasts were ~£600m loss, so the improvement is closer to £35m rather than £400m. A small profit (~£30m) is forecast for 2011. To put that in perspective, £30m will be about a 3% return on capital, following two years in which shareholders' funds will have declined by half.
I really think you need to widen your horizon a bit, and take a look at some of BA's other stakeholders, not just its various employee groups. When you consider the T&C changes being discussed here in the context of a 50% drop in shareholders' funds, and a decline in share price from the peak in early-2007 of 578p to 210p as of yesterday, a result for existing staff of no pay cuts and no compulsory redundancies is surely pretty good.
I really think you need to widen your horizon a bit, and take a look at some of BA's other stakeholders, not just its various employee groups. When you consider the T&C changes being discussed here in the context of a 50% drop in shareholders' funds, and a decline in share price from the peak in early-2007 of 578p to 210p as of yesterday, a result for existing staff of no pay cuts and no compulsory redundancies is surely pretty good.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Just commenting on headline statements made by the press on the back of analysts calculations.
British Airways heading for a £1bn loss - Times Online
I may be wrong, but many people commented on these figures on this and earlier threads and the numbers were not disputed then.
British Airways heading for a £1bn loss - Times Online
I may be wrong, but many people commented on these figures on this and earlier threads and the numbers were not disputed then.
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Watersidewonker, I have to give you a round of applause 
, you keep banging on about how Willie is going to cave in, that if no deal is reached you'll walk. Well, it sounds to me like you are trying really hard to convince yourself that this is the case, that BASSA/Unite are victorious.
The trouble is, no-one who looks at the whole picture believes it.
BASSA/Unite are in a real bad place, they know it, we know it and no amount of bravado and hot air will change this.
If, as you say your "ready to walk", why no dates announced?
As for the planners/Willies next move, it's business as usual.
, you keep banging on about how Willie is going to cave in, that if no deal is reached you'll walk. Well, it sounds to me like you are trying really hard to convince yourself that this is the case, that BASSA/Unite are victorious.The trouble is, no-one who looks at the whole picture believes it.
BASSA/Unite are in a real bad place, they know it, we know it and no amount of bravado and hot air will change this.
If, as you say your "ready to walk", why no dates announced?
As for the planners/Willies next move, it's business as usual.
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Watersidewonker
CREDIBILITY ALERT!!!... CREDIBILITY ALERT!!!
No you aren't "ready to strike". You know, as does every man and his dog, that to do that means losing everything!! BA are extremely well placed. Who are you trying to kid?
You just might be forced to strike though, and that decision is no longer yours, it's Willie's!
Enjoy.
PS: The 'planners' at Waterside (as you yourself called them!) are doing exactly what their name implies. They're planning the next move, not 'waiting' for it!
Please make no mistake we are ready to strike
No you aren't "ready to strike". You know, as does every man and his dog, that to do that means losing everything!! BA are extremely well placed. Who are you trying to kid?
You just might be forced to strike though, and that decision is no longer yours, it's Willie's!
Enjoy.
PS: The 'planners' at Waterside (as you yourself called them!) are doing exactly what their name implies. They're planning the next move, not 'waiting' for it!
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Sadly, there seems to be a lot of inability to accept the reality amongst some*
"Denial" is not just a river in Eqypt
(*the crew who think that they will strike or survive a strike)
"Denial" is not just a river in Eqypt
(*the crew who think that they will strike or survive a strike)
Last edited by From Tunbridge Wells; 26th Feb 2010 at 06:17. Reason: for clarity
