British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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No, Litebulbs, I don't, for reasons I've stated previously.
BA needs significant savings and the continued uncertainty due to BASSA's actions is only going to weaken BA's position.
BA needs significant savings and the continued uncertainty due to BASSA's actions is only going to weaken BA's position.
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Does anybody feel that the £140m savings target should be negotiated down, due to the analysts getting their figures wrong?
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Litebulbs
I guess the original intended savings plus
lost revenues from disenchanted clients if such can be statistically proven (I am sure there are ways to do this)
cost of training up relief CC crews
management cost involved in damage limitation preparations
and perhaps some form of goodwill compensation for the good name in terms of reliability which must have been lost by BA in this dispute
I guess the original intended savings plus
lost revenues from disenchanted clients if such can be statistically proven (I am sure there are ways to do this)
cost of training up relief CC crews
management cost involved in damage limitation preparations
and perhaps some form of goodwill compensation for the good name in terms of reliability which must have been lost by BA in this dispute
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Litebulbs
Forward bookings down 20 or 40% plus - I'm pretty sure BA can put a pretty good value on that.
I'm sure that BA will relent and not pass it ALL onto BASSA and IFCE targets, but at the end of the day, don't be surprised to see BASSA biting off Willies arm to secure the deal originally offered.
Personally, I can't see that Willie has anything to lose by going for the ultimate prize of NF for all, and I hope he does and takes BASSA out for ever. I don't see WW as someone to back down when absolute victory is within his grasp.
Can you see Baloney Maloney working for BA come May? (not that she has pushed an IFE reset button for a year or so anyway).
Forward bookings down 20 or 40% plus - I'm pretty sure BA can put a pretty good value on that.
I'm sure that BA will relent and not pass it ALL onto BASSA and IFCE targets, but at the end of the day, don't be surprised to see BASSA biting off Willies arm to secure the deal originally offered.
Personally, I can't see that Willie has anything to lose by going for the ultimate prize of NF for all, and I hope he does and takes BASSA out for ever. I don't see WW as someone to back down when absolute victory is within his grasp.
Can you see Baloney Maloney working for BA come May? (not that she has pushed an IFE reset button for a year or so anyway).
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q`s
As always litebulbs lots of questions but no answers from you?
Bit like the BASSA position lots of posturing , lots of no`s ,denial of the situation but no answers from them either!!
Well, maybe some but none that make sense or bear up to scrutiny.
Bit like the BASSA position lots of posturing , lots of no`s ,denial of the situation but no answers from them either!!
Well, maybe some but none that make sense or bear up to scrutiny.
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I hope it isnt NF for all, but, WW will never get a better opportunity I dont think. BASSA's 12 days of Christmas was a real gift firmly placing the public on BA's side for a long time I think.
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What answers are you after? If it is within my gift, I will gladly respond.
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Litebulbs
It doesn t matter if the current results are now 400M better than forecast. If the damage done by Bassa was calculated at say 200M, then the result should now have been 600M better than forecast.
Fact remains that BA has accumulated such deficits (pensions et all) they cannot afford to not reclaim unnecessary losses.
So I am sure if they feel wronged by Bassa, and if they think some money could be recovered by suing they will.
From a business point of view they should
It doesn t matter if the current results are now 400M better than forecast. If the damage done by Bassa was calculated at say 200M, then the result should now have been 600M better than forecast.
Fact remains that BA has accumulated such deficits (pensions et all) they cannot afford to not reclaim unnecessary losses.
So I am sure if they feel wronged by Bassa, and if they think some money could be recovered by suing they will.
From a business point of view they should
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Litebulbs, the financial position of BA is stronger due to the cost savings implemented by all other parts of BA, including the imposition of crew reductions. If BASSA are allowed to renegotiate the deal, so will all the other departments, we are back at square one, plus in the cities eyes, no prospects of the structural change required for BA's future to be assured.
That is why BASSA cannot win, or even be seen to have won.
That is why BASSA cannot win, or even be seen to have won.
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Not sure if Willie will push for new fleet for all.That will just play into the hands of Bassa. That they had to play hard as he was out to strip the crew of their pay and conditions.Bassa will be seen as the goodies.
By showing Bassa the original proposal they will see that it was a good deal.A lot of tantrum over nothing and Bassa will be seen as ignorant.
The only problem here is that ,although Bassa will be seen to have acted stupidly,they still hold power.
By showing Bassa the original proposal they will see that it was a good deal.A lot of tantrum over nothing and Bassa will be seen as ignorant.
The only problem here is that ,although Bassa will be seen to have acted stupidly,they still hold power.
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last deal
Snas and for litebulbs benefit my answer as things stand
I don`t think it would be fair on the non BASSA members and the no voters for BA to go all out NF.
WW can`t let BASSA/UNITE decimate forward bookings this way.
I think he will give BASSA final ultimatum to negotiate within a time frame........Monday next week?
Then.............
All legacy crew will be given 90 day SOSR of changes to their contracts/agreements as put to BASSA. With the safeguards and guarantees they have already given.
BASSA/UNITE then have to strike. Which in effect forces crew into a take it or leave it situation.
All the strikers will be dismissed.
Then he will know how many people he has and exactly what schedule he can run as he recruits and starts the new fleet.
BASSA sorted Financial requirements sorted Public and remainder of BA staff on his side as well as .of course the board, the city and the customers.
Agree??
I don`t think it would be fair on the non BASSA members and the no voters for BA to go all out NF.
WW can`t let BASSA/UNITE decimate forward bookings this way.
I think he will give BASSA final ultimatum to negotiate within a time frame........Monday next week?
Then.............
All legacy crew will be given 90 day SOSR of changes to their contracts/agreements as put to BASSA. With the safeguards and guarantees they have already given.
BASSA/UNITE then have to strike. Which in effect forces crew into a take it or leave it situation.
All the strikers will be dismissed.
Then he will know how many people he has and exactly what schedule he can run as he recruits and starts the new fleet.
BASSA sorted Financial requirements sorted Public and remainder of BA staff on his side as well as .of course the board, the city and the customers.
Agree??
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Wacrew
Yeah, I guess I do.
I just hope it gets sorted quickly and with as little pain as possible, for everyone. Things do have to change within the company as so much has changed outside of the company, it's a bummer but thats the way it is...
I just hope it gets sorted quickly and with as little pain as possible, for everyone. Things do have to change within the company as so much has changed outside of the company, it's a bummer but thats the way it is...
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@617sqn
My personal opinion is that it really will be irrelevant what CC think of BASSA, if BASSA is annihilated in this dispute.
This thread is strange in that so many people speak ( in general terms ) of the intelligence of CC, but then go on to describe the behaviour of brain-dead zombies mindlessly following BASSA. Which is it ?
The other thing that I find unusual is the BASSA venom towards WW and wishes for his exit.
The only way he will exit is if he doesn't leave the BASSA BEAST twitching and haemmoraghing with a stake through its vital organs on the field of battle.
My personal opinion is that it really will be irrelevant what CC think of BASSA, if BASSA is annihilated in this dispute.
This thread is strange in that so many people speak ( in general terms ) of the intelligence of CC, but then go on to describe the behaviour of brain-dead zombies mindlessly following BASSA. Which is it ?
The other thing that I find unusual is the BASSA venom towards WW and wishes for his exit.
The only way he will exit is if he doesn't leave the BASSA BEAST twitching and haemmoraghing with a stake through its vital organs on the field of battle.
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leagcy
What will WW offer the legacy crew in terms of the SOSR?
See post 1463 and the following it will be an amalgamation of the two.
Dear Colleague
I am sorry to be writing to you again, but it is very important that you read this letter. It contains information that will affect you personally.
If you are a member of Unite, you are again being asked a question that will have serious repercussions for you, our customers and our company: whether you will support a strike or support our customers.
There has been talk of potential strikes for many months now. We cannot go on like this. In December we saw what our customers and the wider public thought about a strike. Their patience is running out. It is time to be absolutely clear about what will happen if a strike takes place.
I know many of you were shocked by the prolonged nature of the strike that Unite planned at Christmas, and the distress this caused for the customers you serve. It damaged our reputation and cost our company millions of pounds in lost revenue at a time when we are already facing record annual losses.
Since early this month, we have been holding discussions with Unite. We had already planned the next phase of the talks – and then on Monday the union told us that it was calling another strike ballot. As you know, we suffer financially as soon as there are headlines about strikes, because our customers start booking with other airlines.
We have a great heritage, but we must strive for a great future. The aviation industry becomes more competitive every year and as the news from Japan showed this week, even the most famous global airlines will go bankrupt if they fail to adapt to what is happening around them.
I have listened to what matters to you
We must bring our cabin crew costs in line with those in other airlines to ensure a bright future for everyone in IFCE and for our many thousands of BA colleagues who have already made contributions to the company’s cost reduction drive.
Over the last year, many of you spoke to me about how you want to approach those savings. You wanted a voluntary approach to redundancies. You wanted to keep your pay and conditions. And you wanted assurances about the future.
Our package offers all of these and meets our cost target. To accommodate the requests from crew for part-time working and voluntary redundancy, we have slightly reduced crew numbers onboard. There will be a two-year freeze on base pay (but not increments), new contracts for future crew, and changes to the worldwide disruption agreement that would put our customers first without changing the existing disruption payments.
If you do not support a strike
If the majority of you choose to support our customers and reject a strike, I will continue to offer these assurances. They would allow you to:
Keep your current individual terms and conditions
Keep your current basic pay, with 2%-7% increment rises this financial year and next for 75% of you
Keep your average variable pay through the offer of a monthly payment
Keep flying an unrivalled network of routes and staying in quality hotels while you’re there
Keep lifestyle choices, either by changing fleets at Heathrow or transferring to part time
Keep a commitment from us to keep talking with Unite about how we recruit new crew
Keep full union representation with an offer from us for Unite to represent future crew.
If you support a strike
Some of you have said that you voted yes in December, not because you thought it would lead to a strike but because you thought it would lead to more talks or a better deal.
What became clear was that voting yes means you consent to going on strike. Full stop. No-one expects it to be different this time.
We can only assume that another yes vote would again lead to an extended strike or series of strikes. This could have a catastrophic effect on our business and our reputation. This is very serious. As a company, we owe it to our customers and all our colleagues to do everything in our power to prevent this outcome.
Therefore before you vote, I want you to be fully aware of the consequences should you vote yes and go on strike. In those circumstances, you would:
Lose staff travel permanently
Lose pay for any duties you miss if you go on strike, including associated days off
We would also need to review all costs in IFCE, including hotels. And of course I would be unable to maintain the assurances for your terms and conditions.
History tells us that absence rises significantly during industrial action. We will assume that anyone who does not report for duty during a strike is taking part in that industrial action.
I understand completely that coming to work during a strike can be daunting. We all know of past examples of intimidation. This will not be tolerated and, if there is a strike, we would put in place measures to protect you. That is something we would talk to you about in more detail nearer the time. For now, I wanted you to be clear before you vote that you need to make an active choice about what you want for your future.
Vote no and back BA
There has been a lot of debate about whether the changes to crew complements were part of your individual contracts. We don’t believe they are. But that is now a matter for the High Court, which is expected to make a decision before the ballot period is over.
Except for the sentence.
``Keep full union representation with an offer from us for Unite to represent future crew. ``
See post 1463 and the following it will be an amalgamation of the two.
Dear Colleague
I am sorry to be writing to you again, but it is very important that you read this letter. It contains information that will affect you personally.
If you are a member of Unite, you are again being asked a question that will have serious repercussions for you, our customers and our company: whether you will support a strike or support our customers.
There has been talk of potential strikes for many months now. We cannot go on like this. In December we saw what our customers and the wider public thought about a strike. Their patience is running out. It is time to be absolutely clear about what will happen if a strike takes place.
I know many of you were shocked by the prolonged nature of the strike that Unite planned at Christmas, and the distress this caused for the customers you serve. It damaged our reputation and cost our company millions of pounds in lost revenue at a time when we are already facing record annual losses.
Since early this month, we have been holding discussions with Unite. We had already planned the next phase of the talks – and then on Monday the union told us that it was calling another strike ballot. As you know, we suffer financially as soon as there are headlines about strikes, because our customers start booking with other airlines.
We have a great heritage, but we must strive for a great future. The aviation industry becomes more competitive every year and as the news from Japan showed this week, even the most famous global airlines will go bankrupt if they fail to adapt to what is happening around them.
I have listened to what matters to you
We must bring our cabin crew costs in line with those in other airlines to ensure a bright future for everyone in IFCE and for our many thousands of BA colleagues who have already made contributions to the company’s cost reduction drive.
Over the last year, many of you spoke to me about how you want to approach those savings. You wanted a voluntary approach to redundancies. You wanted to keep your pay and conditions. And you wanted assurances about the future.
Our package offers all of these and meets our cost target. To accommodate the requests from crew for part-time working and voluntary redundancy, we have slightly reduced crew numbers onboard. There will be a two-year freeze on base pay (but not increments), new contracts for future crew, and changes to the worldwide disruption agreement that would put our customers first without changing the existing disruption payments.
If you do not support a strike
If the majority of you choose to support our customers and reject a strike, I will continue to offer these assurances. They would allow you to:
Keep your current individual terms and conditions
Keep your current basic pay, with 2%-7% increment rises this financial year and next for 75% of you
Keep your average variable pay through the offer of a monthly payment
Keep flying an unrivalled network of routes and staying in quality hotels while you’re there
Keep lifestyle choices, either by changing fleets at Heathrow or transferring to part time
Keep a commitment from us to keep talking with Unite about how we recruit new crew
Keep full union representation with an offer from us for Unite to represent future crew.
If you support a strike
Some of you have said that you voted yes in December, not because you thought it would lead to a strike but because you thought it would lead to more talks or a better deal.
What became clear was that voting yes means you consent to going on strike. Full stop. No-one expects it to be different this time.
We can only assume that another yes vote would again lead to an extended strike or series of strikes. This could have a catastrophic effect on our business and our reputation. This is very serious. As a company, we owe it to our customers and all our colleagues to do everything in our power to prevent this outcome.
Therefore before you vote, I want you to be fully aware of the consequences should you vote yes and go on strike. In those circumstances, you would:
Lose staff travel permanently
Lose pay for any duties you miss if you go on strike, including associated days off
We would also need to review all costs in IFCE, including hotels. And of course I would be unable to maintain the assurances for your terms and conditions.
History tells us that absence rises significantly during industrial action. We will assume that anyone who does not report for duty during a strike is taking part in that industrial action.
I understand completely that coming to work during a strike can be daunting. We all know of past examples of intimidation. This will not be tolerated and, if there is a strike, we would put in place measures to protect you. That is something we would talk to you about in more detail nearer the time. For now, I wanted you to be clear before you vote that you need to make an active choice about what you want for your future.
Vote no and back BA
There has been a lot of debate about whether the changes to crew complements were part of your individual contracts. We don’t believe they are. But that is now a matter for the High Court, which is expected to make a decision before the ballot period is over.
Except for the sentence.
``Keep full union representation with an offer from us for Unite to represent future crew. ``
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Wascrew
I agree that it would be unfair on the non militant crew to force new fleet on everyone.
I have kept myself fully up to date and resigned from Bassa in protest at their behaviour.I have volunteered to work over a strike so I would hate to be forced onto new fleet through no fault of my own.
I feel that that would not reward loyalty.
Only time will tell what will happen.
One thing is for sure..... Bassa is playing with the big boys now!
I agree that it would be unfair on the non militant crew to force new fleet on everyone.
I have kept myself fully up to date and resigned from Bassa in protest at their behaviour.I have volunteered to work over a strike so I would hate to be forced onto new fleet through no fault of my own.
I feel that that would not reward loyalty.
Only time will tell what will happen.
One thing is for sure..... Bassa is playing with the big boys now!