British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Paddy:
Since this is our day for mixed metaphors I will state that I'm not going to hold my breath while waiting for those pigs to fly.
I believe CC are too far in right now to turn around and start questioning their leadership. Millions of £'s spent, a populace turned hostile...they have to dance with the one that brought them.
Will be interesting to see how that meeting transpires to say the least.
Since this is our day for mixed metaphors I will state that I'm not going to hold my breath while waiting for those pigs to fly.
I believe CC are too far in right now to turn around and start questioning their leadership. Millions of £'s spent, a populace turned hostile...they have to dance with the one that brought them.
Will be interesting to see how that meeting transpires to say the least.
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Can you quantify "getting away with murder"? They have a contract of employment and collectively negotiated agreements.
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meet
Speak up at the meeting and ask questions of the union and the reps???
Considering the treatment of anyone having dared to do that in recent weeks it will take a vey brave and hard skinned person to do that!
Considering the treatment of anyone having dared to do that in recent weeks it will take a vey brave and hard skinned person to do that!
Join Date: Nov 2009
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seat Occupancy
To those asking about Seat Occupancy.
The loads are good at the min. However, the yields are still 'poor', particularly in premium cabins and the actual number of seats is far less than a year ago - reduced capacity/smaller planes etc....
Its too simplistic a view to just say 'The planes look full to me'. It doesn't tell the whole story.
Also, worth pointing out that load factors in First are VERY poor still and very few, if any, are paying full whack for the privledge.
The loads are good at the min. However, the yields are still 'poor', particularly in premium cabins and the actual number of seats is far less than a year ago - reduced capacity/smaller planes etc....
Its too simplistic a view to just say 'The planes look full to me'. It doesn't tell the whole story.
Also, worth pointing out that load factors in First are VERY poor still and very few, if any, are paying full whack for the privledge.
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Poor management
Ironically, it's an example of poor management. Cabin crew agreements have been far too generous for too long - the overall cost of the cabin crew staffing, not necessarily fully through salaries, but also through restrictive agreements. The nettle should have been grasped long ago.
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Nurj,
The bottom line is we're flying less people and making less money so as a company how can we afford to keep the same staffing levels ? Its VERY basic economics. Not a pleasant pill to swallow i'll admit, but its VERY easy to understand.
I'm also very angry.
As for it being temporary, thats also unlikley. With code shares and mergers we're likely to stream line even futher once this sorry fiasco is done and dusted. Shame BASSA won't be around when they're truly needed
{EDIT - the next phase of streamlining might not hit FC and CC as hard as us on the ground, but it will cetainly have some impact - less routes operated by BA planes no doubt}
The bottom line is we're flying less people and making less money so as a company how can we afford to keep the same staffing levels ? Its VERY basic economics. Not a pleasant pill to swallow i'll admit, but its VERY easy to understand.
I'm also very angry.
As for it being temporary, thats also unlikley. With code shares and mergers we're likely to stream line even futher once this sorry fiasco is done and dusted. Shame BASSA won't be around when they're truly needed
{EDIT - the next phase of streamlining might not hit FC and CC as hard as us on the ground, but it will cetainly have some impact - less routes operated by BA planes no doubt}
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Sorry Mods, No more mention of UNITE mouthpieces.
To all BA CC.
You have to elect the reps that will BEST REPRESENT your interests. For the moment, I think, the bolt has been shot; But, for the future, think long and hard about this. I am constantly reminded that among the CC frat there are some mutli-qualified/multi-lingual/multi-this/multi-that - agents of brilliance - eclat. There is some real talent in the cabin!!
Well, sift through the manifetsos of those that stick their heads above the parapet and elect those that you think will be able to NEGOTIATE.
Nurj
To all BA CC.
You have to elect the reps that will BEST REPRESENT your interests. For the moment, I think, the bolt has been shot; But, for the future, think long and hard about this. I am constantly reminded that among the CC frat there are some mutli-qualified/multi-lingual/multi-this/multi-that - agents of brilliance - eclat. There is some real talent in the cabin!!
Well, sift through the manifetsos of those that stick their heads above the parapet and elect those that you think will be able to NEGOTIATE. Nurj
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I think Paddy's comment that the City are right behind Willy is the bit that would worry me most if i was BASSA or CC. I didn't see the share price taking a tumble yesterday which would suggest the analysts have all been briefed and are convinced - its all going according to plan. 
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"Can somebody explain how the company would enforce a policy during IA, that if you were sick, you will be deemed to be on strike? What if you are sick prior to any action, or are, for example, involved in an accident whilst driving to work?"
My guess Litebulb is that you when you called in sick you would be given a report time that day to visit the Company doctor at LHR. Turn up genuinely sick:No problem. Turn up fit: you would be cleared for work.
It is such an obvious ploy that the CC will try you can bet your life a plan is in position to deal with it.
My guess Litebulb is that you when you called in sick you would be given a report time that day to visit the Company doctor at LHR. Turn up genuinely sick:No problem. Turn up fit: you would be cleared for work.
It is such an obvious ploy that the CC will try you can bet your life a plan is in position to deal with it.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Funnily enough BA are advertising for an occupational physician on their recruitment site.
BA Recruitment
regards
BA Recruitment
regards
Join Date: Jan 2010
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I feel there has been an interesting shift in recent days from Crew I know, a few of them now are stating that the strike will not happen. They have gone as far to say that they dont want a strike to happen, but voted yes for one!! Last week they were all saying cannot wait to show WW how proud they are of thier union ...
They say they only voted yes to show BA they are serious, but now do not know where they should turn. When speaking to a friend she said that she is now really worried as she has voted yes but did not think it would actually go ahead or come to this?? When I ask why she had voted yes, the sad thing is that she still does not know why, the usual BASSA facts come out about Fuel,New Fleet, price fixing anything but imposition its been the same for the past few months. We have debated the rights and wrongs of both sides for the past few months, with both of us eventually agreeing not to talk about it due to both of us becoming frustrated. Reality has now hit home and she is very very worried about losing her Job.
I think the statements of the strike will not happen are more of hope than one of fact. Rabbits caught in the headlights...
They say they only voted yes to show BA they are serious, but now do not know where they should turn. When speaking to a friend she said that she is now really worried as she has voted yes but did not think it would actually go ahead or come to this?? When I ask why she had voted yes, the sad thing is that she still does not know why, the usual BASSA facts come out about Fuel,New Fleet, price fixing anything but imposition its been the same for the past few months. We have debated the rights and wrongs of both sides for the past few months, with both of us eventually agreeing not to talk about it due to both of us becoming frustrated. Reality has now hit home and she is very very worried about losing her Job.
I think the statements of the strike will not happen are more of hope than one of fact. Rabbits caught in the headlights...
Join Date: Apr 2002
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If they're now really worried, why on earth did they vote yes? BA made it abundantly clear to all staff that a yes vote was an extremely serious move and that it would have major consequences - in fact they explicitly stated that a yes vote wasn't a vote for more dialogue, it was a vote for a strike. They can't turn around now and say they didn't realise when they were told. Simply saying that they didn't think it would go ahead just isn't good enough - it's not fair to BA, it's not fair to those who actually meant it when they voted yes, it's certainly not fair on passengers.
They might well be regretting their decision, but in all honesty they SHOULD be worried and thinking they've done the wrong thing. They could well have brought the roof down on their heads.
They might well be regretting their decision, but in all honesty they SHOULD be worried and thinking they've done the wrong thing. They could well have brought the roof down on their heads.
Papillon
And those are the 64,000 dollar questions.........As someone else pointed out earlier we have lots of intelligent Cabin crew, Graduates, multi-talented, multifaceted, multi this, multi that..but if that's really true there's been a mass suspension of critical and analylitical facilities somewhere down the line.
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I'm so uppset with the whole thing. I looked at some websites, adn this is intresting:
The above is from:
Cult Information Centre - Common Questions About the Cults (Mods, only added as referense point)
Im not saying that Unite or Bassa is a cult, but the bits I hilighted are scary in my opinion.
What is Mind Control?
Peer Group Pressure
Suppressing doubt and resistance to new ideas by exploiting the need to belong.
Confusing Doctrine
Encouraging blind acceptance and rejection of logic through complex lectures on an incomprehensible doctrine.
Disinhibition
Encouraging child-like obedience by orchestrating child-like behaviour.
Verbal Abuse
Desensitizing through bombardment with foul and abusive language.
Finger Pointing
Creating a false sense of righteousness by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.
No Questions
Accomplishing automatic acceptance of beliefs by discouraging questions.
Fear
Maintaining loyalty and obedience to the group by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest 'negative' thought, word or deed.
Peer Group Pressure
Suppressing doubt and resistance to new ideas by exploiting the need to belong.
Confusing Doctrine
Encouraging blind acceptance and rejection of logic through complex lectures on an incomprehensible doctrine.
Disinhibition
Encouraging child-like obedience by orchestrating child-like behaviour.
Verbal Abuse
Desensitizing through bombardment with foul and abusive language.
Finger Pointing
Creating a false sense of righteousness by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.
No Questions
Accomplishing automatic acceptance of beliefs by discouraging questions.
Fear
Maintaining loyalty and obedience to the group by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest 'negative' thought, word or deed.
Cult Information Centre - Common Questions About the Cults (Mods, only added as referense point)
Im not saying that Unite or Bassa is a cult, but the bits I hilighted are scary in my opinion.
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but the words BASSA just seem to have brainwashed all logical thinking.
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I agree with that, we are old enough to looked up the facts. It does make you wonder though. How badly managed crew have been over the years for them not to believe what thier employer has been saying. Or is the bullying from other crew that bad?
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Is the problem not with the BASSA reps themselves ? In most unions you have representatives from all levels of the hierarchy. It appears to me, from the outside looking in (as far as BASSA is concerned), that all the reps seem to be senior CSDs (or long serving crew) with the most to lose in this particular fight. Maybe its just a very poor spread of representation who as a result haven't actually 'represented' crew at all, but simply themselves. 
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Newyorker001,
Perhaps you should show your friend(s) the latest information from the PCCC that they've sent out?
Since its’ launch, the Professional Cabin Crew Council has demonstrated a voice of moderation. We have publicly stated that BA is being entirely reasonable. The High Court ruled on 19 February that that is the case. Interestingly, Mr Justice Sir Christopher Holland also made the following pronouncements:
1. BA Financial Difficulties
“I have taken into account, first, the dire financial situation of BA as at the 6th October. As to this, I see nothing material in how that situation came to arise, the now undisputed fact is that BA was then in a very serious financial state, such that management reasonably had urgently to do something (and had to be seen to do something) in the interests of the Company, its employees and its financial backers”.
2. Whether the crew complements are Contractual:
“What I am reading is what it is: a negotiated fleet collective agreement apt to cover planning for and deployment of 11,500 employees; it is not the stuff of 11,500 individual contracts. It is thus my judgment that there was no material incorporation into Miss Malone's contract and hence there was no breach post 16 November 2009”.
3. The Imposition of Crew Complements
“ I have further taken into account the now undisputed fact that as at the 6th October negotiations with the Union had come to a halt, notwithstanding the efforts of ACAS, and were unlikely to restart unless and until the internal factions of Unite had resolved their differences so as to form a negotiating team. It is thus, that I find that it was objectively reasonable in the prevailing circumstances to act unilaterally and to make the first change to Miss Cumming's predicated contract, that is, to impose a cabin crew complement other than by way of a collective agreement”.
So in summary, the High Court has ruled that BA were correct about the financial position, the crew complements are NOT contractual and the imposition was required due to Unite not negotiating. The Professional Cabin Crew Council would therefore advise each and every crew member to carefully consider the above facts before going on strike, and to ask:
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
– Be a Part of the Change
[email protected]
Gg
I'm BA crew and this is my opinion and not that of my employer
They say they only voted yes to show BA they are serious, but now do not know where they should turn. When speaking to a friend she said that she is now really worried as she has voted yes but did not think it would actually go ahead or come to this?? When I ask why she had voted yes, the sad thing is that she still does not know why, the usual BASSA facts come out about Fuel,New Fleet, price fixing anything but imposition its been the same for the past few months. Reality has now hit home and she is very very worried about losing her Job.
Perhaps you should show your friend(s) the latest information from the PCCC that they've sent out?
What is this strike about?
Since its’ launch, the Professional Cabin Crew Council has demonstrated a voice of moderation. We have publicly stated that BA is being entirely reasonable. The High Court ruled on 19 February that that is the case. Interestingly, Mr Justice Sir Christopher Holland also made the following pronouncements:
1. BA Financial Difficulties
“I have taken into account, first, the dire financial situation of BA as at the 6th October. As to this, I see nothing material in how that situation came to arise, the now undisputed fact is that BA was then in a very serious financial state, such that management reasonably had urgently to do something (and had to be seen to do something) in the interests of the Company, its employees and its financial backers”.
2. Whether the crew complements are Contractual:
“What I am reading is what it is: a negotiated fleet collective agreement apt to cover planning for and deployment of 11,500 employees; it is not the stuff of 11,500 individual contracts. It is thus my judgment that there was no material incorporation into Miss Malone's contract and hence there was no breach post 16 November 2009”.
3. The Imposition of Crew Complements
“ I have further taken into account the now undisputed fact that as at the 6th October negotiations with the Union had come to a halt, notwithstanding the efforts of ACAS, and were unlikely to restart unless and until the internal factions of Unite had resolved their differences so as to form a negotiating team. It is thus, that I find that it was objectively reasonable in the prevailing circumstances to act unilaterally and to make the first change to Miss Cumming's predicated contract, that is, to impose a cabin crew complement other than by way of a collective agreement”.
So in summary, the High Court has ruled that BA were correct about the financial position, the crew complements are NOT contractual and the imposition was required due to Unite not negotiating. The Professional Cabin Crew Council would therefore advise each and every crew member to carefully consider the above facts before going on strike, and to ask:
“Exactly WHAT is this strike about now?”
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
– Be a Part of the Change
[email protected]
Gg
I'm BA crew and this is my opinion and not that of my employer