British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think a third union is the answer as Villie wants to destroy any union involvement within the company and he feels that they stand in his way to glory. If the present regime continue with breaking agreements then so be it but it only angers the 90% or so of cabin crew who will vote again for a strike and thats what Villie wants thats my belief. No real attempt has been made to resolve this dispute and that the whole world can see. Don't be fooled if he gets away with the cabin crew terms and conditions being tampered with other departments will follow so be warned.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wouldn't you prefer to do what WW doesn't want you to do?
You make it sound like other departments haven't had to cross this bridge yet. We have. It's only Bassa who are digging in their heels refusing to be dragged across.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A third union for cabin crew is probably what BA needs and wants!
family again. Let's not go there.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can a CEO of a FT100 company ignore over 1/3 of his workforce and i mean in terms of not even saying hello to them even when he comes face to face with them when he travels on one of our aircraft. I mean come on this is no way to gain the respect from a workforce or is that just the way he is. No wonder we are getting nowhere with this dispute when dealing with this character.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LHR
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HiFlyer14
Don't worry about a "third union". We are not a Union, we are a modern, forward-thinking, problem-solving, collaborating council.
And we have no intention of being third.
And we have no intention of being third.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LHR
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MrBernouli
I notice that as soon as you gave A Lurker a detailed answer, as well as some testing questions, he/she (depends on who in the family is using the log-on, I think ) disappears. Always seems to happen.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Firstly, I've met WW a couple of times, and on both occasions he introduced himself, shook my hand and listened to what I had to say. I don't know where this rumour about his arrogance and refusal to say hello comes from. Could it be possible that whoever started it is a pro-strike person who didn't want to talk to him? Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with everything WW does. I have to admire his guts though.
In regards to the PCCC, I think it's going to be great. Crew are crying out for appropriate advice and help, and this is part of what PCCC will do. Transparent and honest - absolutely. There's no point in having a council if we're not honest and transparent. Crew want the truth, and the truth they will get.
I wonder if any bassa-member can answer me this question: As of late last year, bassa and amicus decided to work together as one. Howcome then that those who are amicus members aren't allowed on the bassa forum?
Gg
In regards to the PCCC, I think it's going to be great. Crew are crying out for appropriate advice and help, and this is part of what PCCC will do. Transparent and honest - absolutely. There's no point in having a council if we're not honest and transparent. Crew want the truth, and the truth they will get.
I wonder if any bassa-member can answer me this question: As of late last year, bassa and amicus decided to work together as one. Howcome then that those who are amicus members aren't allowed on the bassa forum?
Gg
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oooh look... an update:
10/01/10
WAKE UP!
'...What is the Union doing about all our agreements being broken?...'
A lot of people are demanding an answer to this question from us.
They obviously have not read our last newsletter, or just don’t get it. So to these people, we ask you to read it again and then again.
Let us be blunt - the answer to this question is nothing. There is nothing we can do; that was the point of our communication.
We have complained via the phone, in person and in writing that our agreements are being routinely broken at the highest levels, the answer is that our management don’t care, and that they are doing it anyway.
This is what we have been trying to get across to you for a year now; they just don’t care what your agreement says.
We do not have any other options; if BA chooses to deliberately ignore our agreements then there is nothing we can do, apart from take them to court for breech (sic) of agreement and/or go on strike - and as you should already be aware, we are currently already doing both of these things!
To repeat - there are no other options, apart from your reps physically lying under the wheels of the plane to stop it taking off (we wouldn't trust BA not to order the planes to run us over)!
This is why we are having a ballot – That’s is (sic) why we need your support ***, before its too late, because currently your agreements are simply no longer worth the paper they are written on.
They believe that imposition is the future.
We do not; that’s why we are balloting. If you want your agreements to mean something then vote YES to protect them, if you don’t care then vote No – it’s as simple as that.
*** because otherwise we have to do some real work.
OK BASSA members, let me reiterate what it says:
If you want THEIR cushy numbers to mean something then vote YES to protect them, if you don't care about THEM then vote NO. It's as simple as that.
10/01/10
WAKE UP!
'...What is the Union doing about all our agreements being broken?...'
A lot of people are demanding an answer to this question from us.
They obviously have not read our last newsletter, or just don’t get it. So to these people, we ask you to read it again and then again.
Let us be blunt - the answer to this question is nothing. There is nothing we can do; that was the point of our communication.
We have complained via the phone, in person and in writing that our agreements are being routinely broken at the highest levels, the answer is that our management don’t care, and that they are doing it anyway.
This is what we have been trying to get across to you for a year now; they just don’t care what your agreement says.
We do not have any other options; if BA chooses to deliberately ignore our agreements then there is nothing we can do, apart from take them to court for breech (sic) of agreement and/or go on strike - and as you should already be aware, we are currently already doing both of these things!
To repeat - there are no other options, apart from your reps physically lying under the wheels of the plane to stop it taking off (we wouldn't trust BA not to order the planes to run us over)!
This is why we are having a ballot – That’s is (sic) why we need your support ***, before its too late, because currently your agreements are simply no longer worth the paper they are written on.
They believe that imposition is the future.
We do not; that’s why we are balloting. If you want your agreements to mean something then vote YES to protect them, if you don’t care then vote No – it’s as simple as that.
*** because otherwise we have to do some real work.
OK BASSA members, let me reiterate what it says:
If you want THEIR cushy numbers to mean something then vote YES to protect them, if you don't care about THEM then vote NO. It's as simple as that.
Last edited by Desertia; 11th Jan 2010 at 05:17.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
... apart from take them to court for breech (sic) of agreement and/or go on strike - and as you should already be aware, we are currently already doing both of these things!
I thought BASSA were taking BA to court for breach of contract. A breach of an agreement is something entirely different.
Are BASSA now saying that the imposed changes are no longer contractual?
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Human Factor
You are spot on. I thought the repeated use of the word "Agreement" and lack of word "contract" spoke volumes.
Funny how quickly it's changed from the resolute belief that they would win, whatever, to acceptance that BA can actually run their business as they like and there's nothing BASSA can do.
Damn right too. We all want roster stability and to finish work when and where we were planned to. HOWEVER, in an airline, we SHOULD be flexible when the proverbial hits the fan. BA do not control the weather and it should never be an issue that we might not help our passengers out to the best of our ability. I'm thoroughly ashamed of the "can't do, won't do" actions of my colleagues.
Would Wonker, Lurker or Miss M care to comment on BASSA's own goal in refusing to implement the Disruption Agreement in the first place? Please, please tell our customers (you know, the ones you care about SO much) why you and BASSA won't go the extra mile to get them from A to B.
It's all falling apart at the seams.
You are spot on. I thought the repeated use of the word "Agreement" and lack of word "contract" spoke volumes.
Funny how quickly it's changed from the resolute belief that they would win, whatever, to acceptance that BA can actually run their business as they like and there's nothing BASSA can do.
Damn right too. We all want roster stability and to finish work when and where we were planned to. HOWEVER, in an airline, we SHOULD be flexible when the proverbial hits the fan. BA do not control the weather and it should never be an issue that we might not help our passengers out to the best of our ability. I'm thoroughly ashamed of the "can't do, won't do" actions of my colleagues.
Would Wonker, Lurker or Miss M care to comment on BASSA's own goal in refusing to implement the Disruption Agreement in the first place? Please, please tell our customers (you know, the ones you care about SO much) why you and BASSA won't go the extra mile to get them from A to B.
It's all falling apart at the seams.
Last edited by Nutjob; 11th Jan 2010 at 10:41.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Albert Salmon
From personal experience, LGW crew seem to be less convinced that the world (and BA) owe them a living. Many came from other airlines and almost all (I ask a lot when I'm there) say that the pay, roster stability and working conditions are far better at BA LGW. Hence, a good appreciation of what they have.
It's not necessarily the opposite at LHR, but I think Wonker et al have given you a good insight into the differing attitudes.
Ironically, our LGW colleagues are sneered at by some others as being inferior. Long before your time on this Forum, Glamgirl (LGW Crew) was the topic of conversation on Crew Forum. It was decided that she was too articulate to be LGW crew and was hence an imposter.
The whole world knows about the dispute between BA and its LHR-based cabin crew. On the other hand, very little is made of the fact that LGW crews appear to be working, reasonably happy with their labour contract and their terms and conditions.
It's not necessarily the opposite at LHR, but I think Wonker et al have given you a good insight into the differing attitudes.
Ironically, our LGW colleagues are sneered at by some others as being inferior. Long before your time on this Forum, Glamgirl (LGW Crew) was the topic of conversation on Crew Forum. It was decided that she was too articulate to be LGW crew and was hence an imposter.
Last edited by Nutjob; 11th Jan 2010 at 10:43.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Salmon and Nutjob,
Yes, I can confirm that I've been the topic of Crewforum and deemed far too eloquent to be LGW crew (!). I was also threatened with physical violence for my views.
In my opinion, there are few reasons why cc at LGW would want to transfer to LHR: more money, they live nearer LHR, and some would like to experience different routes. Last summer, we saw around 80 LGW crew seconded to WWLHR. Some enjoyed it, some didn't. Most are very happy to be "home" at LGW again (although they miss the money of course...).
We do get sneered at by others within the company. Some treat us like the equals we are. There are lots of myths and rumours going both ways.
The main thing is that at LGW we are well known for getting on with the task in hand. Yesterday, several flights went a crew member down. Any grumbles? Not really. The crew understood that there simply wasn't any other crew around to operate. They will get a payment, of course - although it's only a fraction of what their colleagues would get 40 miles away.
For the benefit of some posters here: No, I'm still not bitter. I don't necessarily think it's fair, but that doesn't make me bitter and twisted. I'm proud to work at LGW, and I'm proud of the way we get things done here. I'm very happy with my decision to stay, and to be perfectly honest, I'd rather earn less money and be happy.
Also, it seems only around half of the LGW crew are in a union, so that might have something to do with the work ethics, I suppose.
Gg
Yes, I can confirm that I've been the topic of Crewforum and deemed far too eloquent to be LGW crew (!). I was also threatened with physical violence for my views.
In my opinion, there are few reasons why cc at LGW would want to transfer to LHR: more money, they live nearer LHR, and some would like to experience different routes. Last summer, we saw around 80 LGW crew seconded to WWLHR. Some enjoyed it, some didn't. Most are very happy to be "home" at LGW again (although they miss the money of course...).
We do get sneered at by others within the company. Some treat us like the equals we are. There are lots of myths and rumours going both ways.
The main thing is that at LGW we are well known for getting on with the task in hand. Yesterday, several flights went a crew member down. Any grumbles? Not really. The crew understood that there simply wasn't any other crew around to operate. They will get a payment, of course - although it's only a fraction of what their colleagues would get 40 miles away.
For the benefit of some posters here: No, I'm still not bitter. I don't necessarily think it's fair, but that doesn't make me bitter and twisted. I'm proud to work at LGW, and I'm proud of the way we get things done here. I'm very happy with my decision to stay, and to be perfectly honest, I'd rather earn less money and be happy.
Also, it seems only around half of the LGW crew are in a union, so that might have something to do with the work ethics, I suppose.
Gg
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Albert,
From a drivers point of view I have always, without fail, found the LGW based crews excellent, motivated and, above all, fun to fly with.
Perhaps we should swap the crews over for a few years and maybe, just maybe we could get a balanced result across the company!
Shame BASSA have consistently thrown LGW to the wolves to keep the cushy LHR agreements and then, when similar working practices are imposed on LHR that LGW have had no problem with over the past few years, the whole thing becomes a health and safety issue.
East Enders couldn't write a more crooked script!
From a drivers point of view I have always, without fail, found the LGW based crews excellent, motivated and, above all, fun to fly with.
Perhaps we should swap the crews over for a few years and maybe, just maybe we could get a balanced result across the company!
Shame BASSA have consistently thrown LGW to the wolves to keep the cushy LHR agreements and then, when similar working practices are imposed on LHR that LGW have had no problem with over the past few years, the whole thing becomes a health and safety issue.
East Enders couldn't write a more crooked script!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: england
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't want to comment on how LGW got its terms and conditions as I believe that has been discussed.
Was it right or wrong to allow it to happen?Another 80 pages could follow and that too has been done.
When all the changes were made the LGW crew were given various options.No one had to stay there if they didn't want to.
The ones that stayed made that informed decision themselves.New crew were recruited onto new terms etc. In short,the crew knew when they were offered the job what it would entail and what their pay structure would be.That could possibly be why they are "happy" with their lot.
A new pay scale was introduced at LHR and crew joined with a new contract and were happy to do so.I don't think people would leave one job to go to another if they were unhappy at the outset.
Don't want to upset any one as I realise that this is an emotive thread.
Was it right or wrong to allow it to happen?Another 80 pages could follow and that too has been done.
When all the changes were made the LGW crew were given various options.No one had to stay there if they didn't want to.
The ones that stayed made that informed decision themselves.New crew were recruited onto new terms etc. In short,the crew knew when they were offered the job what it would entail and what their pay structure would be.That could possibly be why they are "happy" with their lot.
A new pay scale was introduced at LHR and crew joined with a new contract and were happy to do so.I don't think people would leave one job to go to another if they were unhappy at the outset.
Don't want to upset any one as I realise that this is an emotive thread.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is worth noting that UNITE are the main contributor to the Labour party so with a general election likely to happen within 4 months or so; there is NO WAY they will want a public reation like the 12 day Xmas strike caused. They simply cannot risk the public turning their backs on what is already a wounded Labour party.
My own opinion is that this will be decided over and above BASSA's head and settled out of court at sometime before or during the imminent case.
My own opinion is that this will be decided over and above BASSA's head and settled out of court at sometime before or during the imminent case.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would Wonker, Lurker or Miss M care to comment on BASSA's own goal in refusing to implement the Disruption Agreement in the first place? Please, please tell our customers (you know, the ones you care about SO much) why you and BASSA won't go the extra mile to get them from A to B.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rugby
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wonker, A Lurker, Miss M
Glamgirl wrote:
Isn't that something? Wonker, lurker, MissM , care to comment?
Edited to remove a typo.
Yes, I can confirm that I've been the topic of Crewforum and deemed far too eloquent to be LGW crew (!). I was also threatened with physical violence for my views.
Edited to remove a typo.