British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

[Nutjob]

Miss M

Maybe if you have been at work lately you probably would have notice that crew are more or less working as much as allowed. I did a trip the other day and duty turned out to be around 16 hours (non long-range btw!).

True, but only because BA have enforced the DA and MADE us work to legal limits. If not for this, some of us would be going home the second we reached our industrial (not legal) limits wouldn't we?

(Not me, I might add )

[MissM]

Glamgirl wrote:

Yes, I can confirm that I've been the topic of Crewforum and deemed far too eloquent to be LGW crew (!). I was also threatened with physical violence for my views.

Isn't that something? Wonker, lurker, MissM , care to comment?

Care to comment about what? About that she was threatened with physical violence?

If Glamgirl was that bothered with it maybe she should have contacted the moderator of CrewForum and asked for it to be dealt with. Nobody should put up with that nonsense. But, maybe it would have resulted in her being banned from CrewForum for reporting on here what was being said over there. Just a thought.

[MissM]

TheTiresome1

This agreement has nothing to do with a possible strike.

A strike would not be of benefit to anyone. Very few want to strike and I think most of us actually want this dispute to come to an end and have an agreement reached.

Some seem to think that we are doing this because it's fun. It's not!

Is this from another thread claiminig to be BA cabin crew? Not sure I follow you! Some crew do take order beginning with Gold and Silver Card holders and working down the list.

[wobble2plank]

Maybe you could email BASSA instead and ask!

Ha ha, nice reply, very funny.

Maybe I will but I will ensure that the swearing filter is on for the reply and I don't use words in excess of one syllable.

As BASSA members are so concerned at the safety aspects of breaking their agreements I just thought, maybe, that one of you could explain the rational behind it.

Obviously that too fits into the 'too difficult' draw.

[TheTiresome1]

MissM, I'm getting really confused now.

A strike would not be of benefit to anyone. Very few want to strike and I think most of us actually want this dispute to come to an end and have an agreement reached.

My bold - I thought some 12,000 BASSA members voted for a strike? I won't go into whether they actually knew they were voting for 12 days of Christmas, or the exact numbers involved, but the evidence suggests a VERY large number wanted to strike. What have I missed?

[wobble2plank]

My bold - I thought some 12,000 BASSA members voted for a strike? I won't go into whether they actually knew they were voting for 12 days of Christmas, or the exact numbers involved, but the evidence suggests a VERY large number wanted to strike. What have I missed?

You missed the simple fact that BASSA has 'won' every one of its former disputes before a certain CEO took office by throwing toys out of the cot and blustering IA before weak and ineffective managers who wouldn't grasp the bull by the horns.

Now that BASSA realise, after 9 months of pointless hissy fit throwing, that BA won't back down in the face of their tantrums they want to 're negotiate' but only if BA return the company to the original status quo before the initial round of talks took place back at the start of 2009.

Oddly enough, as all the other departments within BA seem to have managed to reach an adult agreement, BA won't allow it.

BASSA are now trying to back down by saying that the 'mandate' was just to show the 'depth of feeling'.

Perhaps BASSA could give the politicians lessons in spin.

[TheTiresome1]

MissM - your 1646, last paragraph.

This thread Meal choice not available, post number 2.

Apparently BA says you shouldn't do it, but some crew (including "apaddyinuk") press on and do it regardless? It's been said before, who runs BA?

[MissM]

wobble2plank

I'm sure she will appreciate your email!

Getting 2 local nights after a long-range diversion is not that "easy" as you would need to meet a certain number of requirements and I would think most crew do want to get to their destination or LHR. In case you remember BASSA also had in their proposal that long-range diversions should go down to 1 local night so they are not being completely perverse.

[MissM]

TheTiresome1

BA is putting on less and less catering and it can be difficult to make it work and give everyone their preferred meal. So, to ask those Guld card holders first what they would want to eat and leave staff members last is fair, don't you agree?

[Rover90]

A more comfortable seat

MissM, you wrote

So, to ask those Guld (sic) card holders first what they would want to eat and leave staff members last is fair, don't you agree?

I do agree MissM, especially as usually a few of those staff passengers in the premium cabins got there by virtue of the CSD mail drop in T5.

You know the type of letter, my parents/family/friend's are travelling on your flight today, anything you could do to make their flight more comfortable..........

Remember the BASSA outburst when BA alluded to the fact that it was contrary to company regulations to upgrade without good reason. Shock horror...we are not even allowed to look after our family now!

Don't think you want to go there MissM!

Perhaps we should get back on track to CC Industrial Relations before the Moderator rightly comes bearing down.

[Desertia]

Today's news

If you wondered just how juvenile they can get, perhaps this will answer the question (from the Telegraph):

Disaffected British Airways cabin crew have resorted to pouring vintage wine down the sink on the plane and throwing away unused washbags in protest at what they claim is the airline's "disregard" for their working agreements.

Members of the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), a branch of the Unite union respresenting BA's 13,000 cabin crew, said they were opting for "passive resistance".

One crew member said it was the only way they could register their anger with a BA management, led by chief executive Willie Walsh, that won a court injunction to block a proposed 12-day walk-out over Christmas. The two sides have been at loggerheads since BA introduced new working practices to save £140m a year.

Unite is planning a new strike ballot on January 22 following a mass meeting of cabin crew at Kempton Park racecourse on January 18 – unless talks between the two sides resolve the deadlock.

While Unite's joint general secretaries Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley appeared to adopt a more conciliatory tone last week, some Bassa members are furious.

One said: "No-one is doing anything to help save costs any more. Whereas we used to keep unfinished bottles of wine in first-class to save money, now they're routinely poured down the sink. The washbags that could have been recycled, we're just throwing them away."

BA's demands for more flexibility in the cold weather have also irked crew. In an email to members, Bassa said: "Since the arrival of the snow your cabin crew agreements have, in effect, been ripped up."

Bassa said that after warning members to be "aware of what could and could not be asked of them", BA sent "within hours" a "threat of legal action" to Unite's offices, "claiming that if your union encouraged our members to be aware of their own agreement rules, BA would seek action against us for "unofficial industrial action" and seek to declare our impending ballot illegal, alongside seeking massive financial damages".

A BA spokesman said: "We were in contact with the union to ensure that as many of our flights could operate as possible, despite the extremely difficult conditions. We remain focused on the continuing talks with Unite."

I'm not sure where cheapflights.co.uk get their news, but here's their take on things:

After a judge squashed the planned British Airways union strike scheduled for the week of Christmas, BA union and crew members vowed to reclaim their place on the picket line following the holidays. News from the Unite union – the union representing the BA cabin crew – is that the new strike will take place in the next few weeks.

Under law the unions must give the airline at least a week’s notice, so the planned date of Jan. 22, 2010, has been penciled in for a reballot. The strike centers around frozen wages, the request for better health care and the airline’s request for longer working hours.

And while I'm at it, news on the premium cabins:

LONDON (Dow Jones)--U.K. carrier British Airways PLC (BAY.LN) Monday started work on a GBP100 million revamp of its first-class cabin, ending speculation the airline was planning to rid itself of the premium service.

Engineers at British Airways Maintenance Cardiff, or BAMC, began work on the first aircraft, a Boeing Co. (BA) 777 delivered recently, and the fitting will take about three weeks, according to an in-house newsletter.

"It's an exciting project, one in which we have invested around GBP100 million in enhancing levels of comfort and service," said BA Chairman Martin Broughton.

BA will upgrade and modernize all its aircraft that offer first-class services. The revamp came in response to customer feedback, a spokesman for BA told Dow Jones Newswires. The amount of space allocated to first-class accommodation will not change.

The airline has taken pride in its premium offering, but is facing stiff competition from rivals that are launching more luxurious products in an attempt to win passengers.

First- and business-class seats are lucrative to airlines as they command greater fares. BA has been particularly hard hit during the economic downturn due to its reliance on premium traffic, which fell sharply in the wake of the financial crisis.

However, Broughton said BA has always been innovative and "certainly not lacking in foresight."

At the end of September, BA pushed ahead with the launch of its all-business service between London City Airport and New York.

"Despite what some said, we knew it was the right thing to do and we are being proved right. It's a great success and will continue to be an asset to us," Broughton said.

[Matt101]

Disertia - I'm not entirely sure how accurate the wine thing is - I was not long ago at BA and disposing of the wine in open Bottles was a mandatory customs requirement then. I know some crew used to try and store it on the down route turn around but strictly speaking we weren't supposed to. Perhaps what it infers is that more is being binned than usual - for example rather than opening one bottle at a time open 2 causing waste - I have seen and heard of this happening before as a form of protest.

Used to brake my heart though - that jumbo used to drink better than I did!

Wash Bag wise - that is, as you say, somewhat Juvenile and rather cutting off your nose to spite your face given the financial circumstances.

Rover90

Remember the BASSA outburst when BA alluded to the fact that it was contrary to company regulations to upgrade without good reason. Shock horror...we are not even allowed to look after our family now!

Nice as the practice was for us all I was actually always under the impression that there were strict IATA regs regarding upgrades anyway?

[Human Factor]

Nice as the practice was for us all I was actually always under the impression that there were strict IATA regs regarding upgrades anyway?

There are. BA send out a reminder every few years, one of which was delivered a few weeks ago.

[Desertia]

Just listening to BBCWS who report that JAL will be allowed to slip into bankruptcy by the government, despite offers of around $2 billion from Oneworld and Delta.

Shares have dropped 45% today, before being suspended under technical regulations, as investors clamour to get out. There are lots more sell orders in the queue.

Like the US, whilst in bankruptcy protection they can restructure. In their case, it is anticipated that 13,000 people will lose their jobs.

Keep going BASSA, don't you worry about it.

[IYCSWICSWICW]

..united they stand, still planting the 'Iwo Jima' flag.

GF

[HiFlyer14]

Maybe BASSA and its Chairman said no to make a stand after what has been happening lately. Facts remain that BA completely ignored our agreements and decided to take matters into their own hands. Maybe they could have approached BASSA again and tried to find a solution!

But, it's obvious now and even confirmed by BASSA that our are agreements are Gentlemen's Agreements and not even worth the paper they are written on.

This is pure and simple stirring by BASSA.

If you are BA cabin crew, go to the ESS forum and read the thread on there about disruption. I don't wish to wash our dirty laundry in public, but a WW CSD has confirmed that after speaking to ops, there are no flights leaving with crew members down and, as a CSD, was particularly advised not to leave with less than the required complement. So it appears, contrary to the BASSA spin machine, that BA are doing their utmost to keep the operation going while complying to the usual agreements.

This bad weather is just another attempt by BASSA to stir up the masses into voting for a strike, by trying to claim that BA are again in breach of the agreements.

If as quoted on here "most don't want to strike" then they need to vote accordingly. BASSA clearly has no facts, or detailed evidence to convince people to vote for a strike, so they have now resorted to making them up - as in this bad weather instance.

Very poor taste BASSA - this is unadulterated rabble-rousing and proves you have stooped to new lows. BASSA have now proved themselves capable of being underhand, unprofessional, lying and even acting illegally (asking non members to vote).

How anyone can fail to see that and still think they are safe voting for a strike, is beyond me.

I am BA cabin crew and the above is my own view and not that of BA.

[keel beam]

You do have a nice sense of duty.

MissM

You and your colleagues are employed in the Customer Service role. The company is in the service industry.

Customers are fickle, when there is a large choice of whatever product to choose from, when not happy with that product, they will pick another. You will have read many examples on this thread.

I am sure, when you were employed, your job description wasn't "You will do your best to look after yourself before the customer"

The customer comes first!

If you and your colleagues find putting the customer first so repulsive, then you are all in the wrong job!

[wobble2plank]

In case you remember BASSA also had in their proposal that long-range diversions should go down to 1 local night so they are not being completely perverse.

I would be a little careful quoting any reference to the BASSA proposals! As we all know they were the biggest work of fiction this side of Gordon Browns 'End to boom and bust' speech!

Couple that with the small fact that the BASSA proposals were only for 2 years (then BASSA wanted the money back), the cost savings took into account, for BASSA, the entire cost of diversion/disruption from all departments and that no action could be taken without BA management going 'cap in hand' to the local BASSA rep.

Still don't think this is about a power struggle? BASSA don't give a stuff about the CC as a whole they will only whip up the masses into a frenzy with select tidbits and half truths in an attemp to cling onto their power base.

We work in a service industry where our role is the safe, comfortable and timely transportation of paying customers from A to B. As such, in order to retain customers and keep loyalty in a cut throat industry, we MUST ensure that the needs and requirements of the customer come first.

Cabin crew have not changed, fundamentally, their Terms and Conditions since privatisation. Thus, as the rest of BA has acclimatised over the intervening period, the fall and change will feel all the more severe. Some may say that the CC feel 'victimised' as 20 years of change happens at once. Simply not true, what other departments have achieved slowly BASSA have delayed until the very end. BASSA have cocooned the CC in a false sense of importance in the big scheme of things and this cocoon is rapidly unraveling. The resulting landing will be a hard one.

[101917]

I began taking an interest in this and the previous thread, along with many other sources on the dispute sometime ago. I approached from a position of neutrality on the basis that there were two sides to the argument.

Over the last few years I have used every class that BA had to offer, including Concorde. However, after my next two flights, which were booked well before the dispute became public, I will not be using the airline for a considerable period.

I began loosing my neutrality a couple of weeks ago and, leaving aside the extremely vitriolic submissions by both sides and concentrating on the core arguments, it is my view that the pro Bassa supporters have not even come close to winning the debate.

In fact post number 1622 has finally convinced me there is really only one side to the squabble.

It is to be hoped, for all employees of BA, that Unite (not Bassa) have seen the light and that is why they have returned to the table, with the threat of imposition still in place.

[28L]

101917,

As I'm sure you are aware, the BA staff posting on this forum are only a fraction of the number employed by BA.

FWIW my impression (as a BA jumbo Captain) is that the majority of BA Cabin Crew are very angry with BA and intend to vote in favour of a strike. However whilst onboard they continue to provide service as normal.

Maybe see how your next two flights go before dumping us?