British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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I am currently in UNITE and am voting no to a strike - if the result comes back as a yes, i shall break the strike and come to work. However, i am not sure about leaving the union 'cos i may need them one day to stand in my corner for, let's say a disciplinary?
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Over the last few days I have felt restored confidence in BA's continued operations. I have therefore gone ahead and booked the remaining aspects of my April trip, whilst carefully checking the relevant cancellation clauses and travel insurance exclusions. 
Don't let me down, folks!
Don't let me down, folks!
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BAcrewboy
An understandable concern however please retain a sense of proportion. How likely is it that a staff member has recourse to TU representation in the course of their career. Highly unlikely and in any event employment law and those resposible for Employent Tribunals will always attempt to ensure fair play to all parties.
Representation need not be the preserve of TU reps or full time officials. They as we can see for ourselves in the current morass do not have the monopoly of wisdom.
Representation need not be the preserve of TU reps or full time officials. They as we can see for ourselves in the current morass do not have the monopoly of wisdom.
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BAcrewboy
I have a different thought to that above and I can understand why you are keen to retain some form of representation and legal support.
Disciplinaries aside (I'm sure you're too well-behaved for that) there are other occasions, through no fault of your own, when you may come into conflict with the company and have need of representation. Our sickness policy is such that one can easily fall into problems often through nothing more than bad luck. Injuries at work are, however, where your legal representation comes into its own. I could regale you for hours with stories of crew who have faced the mighty BA legal department in court after an injury sustained either on-board or at Cranebank and that is why it is advisable for all crew to have access to legal cover. You could take out an insurance policy but ultimately its cheaper to pay a union subsrciption. You are only ever a turbulent flight, sudden braking on the taxi-way, plastic bag in the aisle, punch in the face, etc. away from needing it. Cheery subject this!
I am BA crew and these are my thoughts only not that of my employer.
Disciplinaries aside (I'm sure you're too well-behaved for that) there are other occasions, through no fault of your own, when you may come into conflict with the company and have need of representation. Our sickness policy is such that one can easily fall into problems often through nothing more than bad luck. Injuries at work are, however, where your legal representation comes into its own. I could regale you for hours with stories of crew who have faced the mighty BA legal department in court after an injury sustained either on-board or at Cranebank and that is why it is advisable for all crew to have access to legal cover. You could take out an insurance policy but ultimately its cheaper to pay a union subsrciption. You are only ever a turbulent flight, sudden braking on the taxi-way, plastic bag in the aisle, punch in the face, etc. away from needing it. Cheery subject this!
I am BA crew and these are my thoughts only not that of my employer.
Last edited by ottergirl; 21st Jan 2010 at 11:59. Reason: disclaimer added
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Ottergirl / BAcrewboy
You make a very valid point Ottergirl. Please forgive me if I appear to have a somewhat jaundiced view of staff representatives. No doubt they support your colleagues well in the areas you have described, as they should. However, their grasp of the realities that the company faces seems to leave hem bereft of common sense when step change in the business model is required.
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One Union
Is it time for one Union, say a new Airline Union, that could represent all employees. Negotiate as one for areas of common interest say pensions, with sub-sections for different groups of employees and their paricular areas of concern.
At the moment Unite seems quite happy with the prospect of all BA employees on the dole and their pension plans up the swannee. Why anybody who works for BA would trust Unite to look after them is beyond me !!!
At the moment Unite seems quite happy with the prospect of all BA employees on the dole and their pension plans up the swannee. Why anybody who works for BA would trust Unite to look after them is beyond me !!!
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PCCC recognition
I think some people are getting unnecessarily hung up on the legal niceties of this. If PCCC is perceived as being helpful, then BA will "recognise" it in some way, either formally under labour relations law, or simply just by using it informally.
I'll give you an example of the latter. A few pages back Slidebustle detailed some aspects of the new work arrangements she feels aren't working and said "I'm going to feed back to my manager". The impression given is that the fedback will be constructive. Ideally it will involve suggestions of how to change/improve arrangements so they do work. Most importantly, however, such feedback looks as though it will be of the "punters aren't getting what they think they paid for" variety, and not "it isn't in my T&Cs".
Now, imagine she also says, "I'm in PCCC. We've discussed this and suggest we do X, Y, and Z to see if we can make it work. We're happy to trial it for you if you agree". I'm going to assume here that where SB has issues correlates to relatively poor customer feedback. If this is a reasonable assumption, we now have a position where SB's manager also has an opportunity to look smart in front of his/her manager, by identifying the reasons for the poor customer feedback and putting forward some options to try and improve things. Even better for BA generally is that PCCC offers an organised group willing to engage in product development and management from a customer marketing perspective, not one of "does it comply with our work agreements?".
It is clear that a key aim of BA in the current dispute is to ensure it has more flexibility in future to adjust its product offering, rapidly where necessary. The days of having to get Union agreement to hand out hot towels in WT+, for instance, are over I would suggest. BA needs groups like PCCC who are simply willing to engage. This isn't just a CC issue either. It opens up opportunities to empower office-based managers of the in-cabin product to experiment and trial new ideas on a limited basis. This cannot currently be possible if everything requires formal sign off with the Unions before implementation.
So, I can't see why BA would not want to "recognise" PCCC in some way or other. Do people in PCCC care whether this is formal or not? The only area where I can see it to be of immediate concern to people thinking of switching from Unite is in the disciplinary area. Union membership does provide legal rights of representation and attendance on Union officials. However, this is actually more an issue of whether PCCC formally registers as a Union. If it does, then members have a right to representation/attendance whether BA recognises PCCC or not.
In short, if BA sees PCCC as offering opportunities to engage with cabin crew in product development and management, then they'd simply be stupid not to recognise it, however that is defined. As I've said previously, it seems strange that the work group with the biggest face-to-face interraction with customers appears at present to have the least flexibility and involvement in product design and delivery. Their involvement is currently curtailed by a process that over-emphasises the sanctity of existing formal agreements (such things really are not as immutable as the Ten Commandments). The evolution of such a process is the fault of both Unions and previous BA management regimes: managements get the Unions they deserve.
If BA and PCCC develop a relationship initially along the line above, then discussions will naturally evolve to cover other aspects of the relationship, right up to consideration of whether PCCC should negotiate collective agreements for its members, and indeed if members actually want them.
Of course, if PCCC becomes that successful, it will have the challenge of ensuring it does not become just another self-perpetuating bureaucracy that displays all the worst defects of the organisation it is now competing with.
I'll give you an example of the latter. A few pages back Slidebustle detailed some aspects of the new work arrangements she feels aren't working and said "I'm going to feed back to my manager". The impression given is that the fedback will be constructive. Ideally it will involve suggestions of how to change/improve arrangements so they do work. Most importantly, however, such feedback looks as though it will be of the "punters aren't getting what they think they paid for" variety, and not "it isn't in my T&Cs".
Now, imagine she also says, "I'm in PCCC. We've discussed this and suggest we do X, Y, and Z to see if we can make it work. We're happy to trial it for you if you agree". I'm going to assume here that where SB has issues correlates to relatively poor customer feedback. If this is a reasonable assumption, we now have a position where SB's manager also has an opportunity to look smart in front of his/her manager, by identifying the reasons for the poor customer feedback and putting forward some options to try and improve things. Even better for BA generally is that PCCC offers an organised group willing to engage in product development and management from a customer marketing perspective, not one of "does it comply with our work agreements?".
It is clear that a key aim of BA in the current dispute is to ensure it has more flexibility in future to adjust its product offering, rapidly where necessary. The days of having to get Union agreement to hand out hot towels in WT+, for instance, are over I would suggest. BA needs groups like PCCC who are simply willing to engage. This isn't just a CC issue either. It opens up opportunities to empower office-based managers of the in-cabin product to experiment and trial new ideas on a limited basis. This cannot currently be possible if everything requires formal sign off with the Unions before implementation.
So, I can't see why BA would not want to "recognise" PCCC in some way or other. Do people in PCCC care whether this is formal or not? The only area where I can see it to be of immediate concern to people thinking of switching from Unite is in the disciplinary area. Union membership does provide legal rights of representation and attendance on Union officials. However, this is actually more an issue of whether PCCC formally registers as a Union. If it does, then members have a right to representation/attendance whether BA recognises PCCC or not.
In short, if BA sees PCCC as offering opportunities to engage with cabin crew in product development and management, then they'd simply be stupid not to recognise it, however that is defined. As I've said previously, it seems strange that the work group with the biggest face-to-face interraction with customers appears at present to have the least flexibility and involvement in product design and delivery. Their involvement is currently curtailed by a process that over-emphasises the sanctity of existing formal agreements (such things really are not as immutable as the Ten Commandments). The evolution of such a process is the fault of both Unions and previous BA management regimes: managements get the Unions they deserve.
If BA and PCCC develop a relationship initially along the line above, then discussions will naturally evolve to cover other aspects of the relationship, right up to consideration of whether PCCC should negotiate collective agreements for its members, and indeed if members actually want them.
Of course, if PCCC becomes that successful, it will have the challenge of ensuring it does not become just another self-perpetuating bureaucracy that displays all the worst defects of the organisation it is now competing with.
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Even better for BA generally is that PCCC offers an organised group willing to engage in product development and management from a customer marketing perspective, not one of "does it comply with our work agreements?".
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Pensions
Completely self-interested question so apologies in advance...
If the worst does happen and BA goes bust, whether due to the strike or something else, what IS the pension situation? I see a lot of people alluding to it. Would we get any benefits to speak of from the Pensions Protection Fund? And what's the position for ex-employees (again, brazen self interest from me in asking)
If the worst does happen and BA goes bust, whether due to the strike or something else, what IS the pension situation? I see a lot of people alluding to it. Would we get any benefits to speak of from the Pensions Protection Fund? And what's the position for ex-employees (again, brazen self interest from me in asking)
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PCCC:
What a great idea!
Sounds like you're onto a winner there and I wholeheartedly wish those of you involved in the formation of the group all the best with it.
BA can still be a World Class company again with the efforts of people like yourselves. Well done!
You may need a more snappy title though. Pee-Cee-Cee-Cee doesn't roll easily off the tongue! P3C or something similar maybe?
What a great idea!
Sounds like you're onto a winner there and I wholeheartedly wish those of you involved in the formation of the group all the best with it.
BA can still be a World Class company again with the efforts of people like yourselves. Well done!
You may need a more snappy title though. Pee-Cee-Cee-Cee doesn't roll easily off the tongue! P3C or something similar maybe?
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By continuing to pay your subs to Bassa, you are supporting their leaders, their tactics and undermining your own ability to have a future at BA. Those guys you see on telly saying how disgraceful BA have behaved are union employees - they don't work for BA, so couldn't care two hoots if BA went under. (In fact, for the more wildly left wing of them it would represent a victory for the workers over the capitalist system, something they've longed to see.)
I wouldn't give them a penny of my money. Spend it on good legal insurance, and still have peace of mind in both respects.
Oh, and support PCCC, you've nothing to lose by helping it gain a voice!
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Ten West,
PCCC works really well with our cheerleader chant and dances though...
Gg (trying to inject a little humour)
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
You may need a more snappy title though. Pee-Cee-Cee-Cee doesn't roll easily off the tongue! P3C or something similar maybe?
PCCC works really well with our cheerleader chant and dances though...
Gg (trying to inject a little humour)
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
