British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Desertia,
The source comes from flight operations management from Waterside. BA asked BASSA for activation of the DA during the snow prior to Christmas as the lack of parking stands at LHR led to multiple diversions.
Then again during the initial post Christmas snow and the Snow of January 2010 (ongoing!) as the difficulties of de-icing and hold over times causes massive traffic jams at LHR with no stands thus leading to cancellations and diversions. Generally, over the past couple of weeks, personnel levels have not been the issue departing LHR it has been the delays incurred after diversion getting the aircraft in the right place.
The main reason for canceling the SH services is to provide some working space for the de-icing services (which, incidentally use the same personnel as the push back tugs leading to a shortage of both!) and parking stands for the LH aircraft thus reducing the risk/expense of diversion.
As we are experiencing the worst winter snows for 30 years one might have expected BASSA to put their petty differences aside for the protection of the customer. Guess that would be asking too much though.
The sooner we are rid of this obstinate 1970's style Union and get correct, responsible representation for the majority of our hard working Cabin Crew the better.
Perhaps Unites requirement to prop up an ailing Labour government on their run up to the election will focus Unites attention into slapping its errant child Union BASSA into touch.
The source comes from flight operations management from Waterside. BA asked BASSA for activation of the DA during the snow prior to Christmas as the lack of parking stands at LHR led to multiple diversions.
Then again during the initial post Christmas snow and the Snow of January 2010 (ongoing!) as the difficulties of de-icing and hold over times causes massive traffic jams at LHR with no stands thus leading to cancellations and diversions. Generally, over the past couple of weeks, personnel levels have not been the issue departing LHR it has been the delays incurred after diversion getting the aircraft in the right place.
The main reason for canceling the SH services is to provide some working space for the de-icing services (which, incidentally use the same personnel as the push back tugs leading to a shortage of both!) and parking stands for the LH aircraft thus reducing the risk/expense of diversion.
As we are experiencing the worst winter snows for 30 years one might have expected BASSA to put their petty differences aside for the protection of the customer. Guess that would be asking too much though.
The sooner we are rid of this obstinate 1970's style Union and get correct, responsible representation for the majority of our hard working Cabin Crew the better.
Perhaps Unites requirement to prop up an ailing Labour government on their run up to the election will focus Unites attention into slapping its errant child Union BASSA into touch.
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Thank you Wobble.
So Romans44, do you accept this?
Were you aware of it or not?
It's still relevant, as I understand from my brother, still trapped but safe in a sleepy hamlet because the minor roads were never cleared, that yet more snow is falling not too far from LHR.
So Romans44, do you accept this?
Were you aware of it or not?
It's still relevant, as I understand from my brother, still trapped but safe in a sleepy hamlet because the minor roads were never cleared, that yet more snow is falling not too far from LHR.
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Why should BASSA let this regime give away the DA agreement as this forms part of our terms and conditions after all the imposition that came into force back in november. We are not playing ball as the other team are not playing fair with dirty tricks coming back again and again wake up and smell the sewage coming from Waterworld.
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[QUOTE]Why should BASSA let this regime give away the DA agreement as this forms part of our terms and conditions after all the imposition that came into force back in november. We are not playing ball as the other team are not playing fair with dirty tricks coming back again and again wake up and smell the sewage coming from Waterworld./QUOTE]
Because the DISRUPTION AGREEMENT is to be used at times of DISRUPTION!
If this doesn't count what does?
If BASSA don't consider this appropriate use of an agreement then when will they?
If BA wants to continue to do as its customers want, take them safely and in a timely fashion to their destination and the CC union wants to stop that from happening what do you expect the management to do? Wait for a thaw?
Please remember who employs you and who pays for those wages. The airline is not run by ANY union if they cannot see that and wish to make this a tussle for power when every ounce of common sense shows that only one side will ever win then they may as well begin to sound their death knell.
All this type of intransigence does is hasten their demise. Is this considered 'working to rule'? Could this be considered encouragement to take unofficial strike action? In situations like this union reps tread on very thin ice.
Because the DISRUPTION AGREEMENT is to be used at times of DISRUPTION!
If this doesn't count what does?
If BASSA don't consider this appropriate use of an agreement then when will they?
If BA wants to continue to do as its customers want, take them safely and in a timely fashion to their destination and the CC union wants to stop that from happening what do you expect the management to do? Wait for a thaw?
Please remember who employs you and who pays for those wages. The airline is not run by ANY union if they cannot see that and wish to make this a tussle for power when every ounce of common sense shows that only one side will ever win then they may as well begin to sound their death knell.
All this type of intransigence does is hasten their demise. Is this considered 'working to rule'? Could this be considered encouragement to take unofficial strike action? In situations like this union reps tread on very thin ice.
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Wonker
It wouldn't need to be "imposed" or "given away" if BASSA could be trusted to activate it when appropriate. You see, it's like kids, if they can't be trusted to act maturely, then a regime will have to be enforced all the more strictly.
You gotta be cruel to be kind sometimes. There won't be a BA for BASSA to get hacked off with if they continue with their immature games.
Why should BASSA let this regime give away the DA agreement as this forms part of our terms and conditions after all the imposition that came into force back in november.
You gotta be cruel to be kind sometimes. There won't be a BA for BASSA to get hacked off with if they continue with their immature games.
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Thank you Wobble.
So Romans44, do you accept this?
Were you aware of it or not?
It's still relevant, as I understand from my brother, still trapped but safe in a sleepy hamlet because the minor roads were never cleared, that yet more snow is falling not too far from LHR
So Romans44, do you accept this?
Were you aware of it or not?
It's still relevant, as I understand from my brother, still trapped but safe in a sleepy hamlet because the minor roads were never cleared, that yet more snow is falling not too far from LHR
This is the word of a manager and to be honest ,lately, I have come not to trust people at 'wanderworld'.
As I said b4 this forum is full of speculation.
Wobble, can you provide the information with facts not hearsay?
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Why should BASSA let this regime give away the DA agreement as this forms part of our terms and conditions after all the imposition that came into force back in november. We are not playing ball as the other team are not playing fair with dirty tricks coming back again and again wake up and smell the sewage coming from Waterworld.
So, how it works, BASSA say "No" to BA out of spite, completely neglecting their paying customers (again), thus forcing BA to react accordingly.
Then they blame BA for that reaction, slyly neglecting to mention that they've forced it upon them.
Wave bye bye to the moral high ground.
This union are so utterly predictable; no wonder they can lose a court case even when they've been warned in advance what they're doing wrong. I think Absolute Numpties is the perfect description.
Romans44: Just read your last message. So it is clear BASSA haven't told you that BA asked. We only await confirmation of what has been said on here by both sides - that BA asked and BASSA said No.
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Romans 44,
For crying out loud! I do NOT have access to Willie Walshs' personal correspondence. It is well and widely known that, during the coldest and harshest winter for 30 years, BA have had severe disruption and have attempted over the past month to activate the disruption agreement in accordance with the agreed stipulations without success.
If you want proof then seek it from your own obstinate Union.
As a last resort BA had no other choice than to implement the DA to attempt to minimise disruption to our customers. Those people that, sadly, a minority of Crew seem to think are a hinderence to their ongoing spat with the company.
If you have the inability to accept the blindingly obvious then that, I'm afraid, is your problem.
For crying out loud! I do NOT have access to Willie Walshs' personal correspondence. It is well and widely known that, during the coldest and harshest winter for 30 years, BA have had severe disruption and have attempted over the past month to activate the disruption agreement in accordance with the agreed stipulations without success.
If you want proof then seek it from your own obstinate Union.
As a last resort BA had no other choice than to implement the DA to attempt to minimise disruption to our customers. Those people that, sadly, a minority of Crew seem to think are a hinderence to their ongoing spat with the company.
If you have the inability to accept the blindingly obvious then that, I'm afraid, is your problem.
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In his message no.1689, Romans44 asked:
It would greatly add to the cause Romans44 so vigorously espouses if he would do exactly what he asks from others.
Wobble, can you provide the information with facts not hearsay?
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For crying out loud! I do NOT have access to Willie Walshs' personal correspondence. It is well and widely known that, during the coldest and harshest winter for 30 years, BA have had severe disruption and have attempted over the past month to activate the disruption agreement in accordance with the agreed stipulations without success.
If you want proof then seek it from your own obstinate Union.
As a last resort BA had no other choice than to implement the DA to attempt to minimise disruption to our customers. Those people that, sadly, a minority of Crew seem to think are a hinderence to their ongoing spat with the company.
If you have the inability to accept the blindingly obvious then that, I'm afraid, is your problem
If you want proof then seek it from your own obstinate Union.
As a last resort BA had no other choice than to implement the DA to attempt to minimise disruption to our customers. Those people that, sadly, a minority of Crew seem to think are a hinderence to their ongoing spat with the company.
If you have the inability to accept the blindingly obvious then that, I'm afraid, is your problem
till you can prove your comments with true facts I am afraid I'll take everything with a pinch of salt..
By the way, please don't make it sound like I don't care. I do care but I also don't approve of bulling. People have died in the past to protect their rights, if you find that so hard to accept, I am afraid, is your problem.
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Originally Posted by romans44
Hi Desertia, no I don't accept this, unless I can see it in writing.
This is the word of a manager and to be honest ,lately, I have come not to trust people at 'wanderworld'.
This is the word of a manager and to be honest ,lately, I have come not to trust people at 'wanderworld'.
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I do care but I also don't approve of bulling. People have died in the past to protect their rights, if you find that so hard to accept, I am afraid, is your problem.
It seems the BASSA version is typically evasive; they only refer to Bill Francis thus:
He has asked for flexibility and yet has given none; since the arrival of the snow your cabin crew agreements have, in effect been ripped up.
However, when looking for information, we have yet more utter BASSA nonsense to contend with. Have a laugh at this!:
Sadly, of late we have seen more people managed out of the company through EG300. Remember it is your right to representation at any meeting, be it with a manager or ARI team (EG300). We recommend that when you receive your invite to be interrogated over your absence, you request a rep, this includes stage 1 and 2 meetings. Stage 3 is final written warning Stage 4 is dismissal. Section 4 (long term sick) meetings should always be attended with a rep, when placed in Section 4 you are told that "this could lead to your dismissal", please do not have meetings over the phone, before or after trips, that will forfeit your right to representation. We insist that you get a UKM day for meetings at the company’s behest. We have seen that BA no longer provide you with a safe working environment, if a passenger or crew member complains about you, you will be suspended....
ATTEND ANY MEETING ALONE AT YOUR PERIL!
We have a complete breakdown in trust and industrial relations with BA.
BA have become morally bankrupt! You have seen in the press what the company think of us with their dirty tricks campaign, turning our own customers against us.
Your reps are here to represent you at all times, please use that right.....
UNITED WE STAND
ATTEND ANY MEETING ALONE AT YOUR PERIL!
We have a complete breakdown in trust and industrial relations with BA.
BA have become morally bankrupt! You have seen in the press what the company think of us with their dirty tricks campaign, turning our own customers against us.
Your reps are here to represent you at all times, please use that right.....
UNITED WE STAND
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Give up Wobble..
Hey Wobble, Romans will never concede this - BASSA rule 1, never let the truth get in the way of their "message".
Romans, is it snowing on Planet BASSA? For crying out loud, we have found a new depth to BASSA's behaviour. I guess you also think that the snow is being arranged by wicked WW.
Please, seriously, will you provide the conditions under which the DA would be deemed acceptable to BASSA
Romans, is it snowing on Planet BASSA? For crying out loud, we have found a new depth to BASSA's behaviour. I guess you also think that the snow is being arranged by wicked WW.
Please, seriously, will you provide the conditions under which the DA would be deemed acceptable to BASSA
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OK Romans why not look at this from a slightly different angle.
Assume BA did NOT ask the union to implement the DA. They have just gone and unilaterally used the crews to the limits of their duty hours whenever necessary without the union being involved.
If this has been the case why have we not heard the union screaming from the rooftops that BA never asked us. If only they would have come to us first we would have gladly invoked the DA for the good of the customers!
Instead we only hear from BASSA that BA are doing as they please and they are powerless...
I agree it is dangerous to assume hearsay is fact, but it does seem pretty farfetched to assume BA would NOT have asked to implement an agreement designed entirely to cope with the situation it finds itself in!
Assume BA did NOT ask the union to implement the DA. They have just gone and unilaterally used the crews to the limits of their duty hours whenever necessary without the union being involved.
If this has been the case why have we not heard the union screaming from the rooftops that BA never asked us. If only they would have come to us first we would have gladly invoked the DA for the good of the customers!
Instead we only hear from BASSA that BA are doing as they please and they are powerless...
I agree it is dangerous to assume hearsay is fact, but it does seem pretty farfetched to assume BA would NOT have asked to implement an agreement designed entirely to cope with the situation it finds itself in!
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I do care but I also don't approve of bulling. People have died in the past to protect their rights, if you find that so hard to accept, I am afraid, is your problem.
Bulling? Like the bull that drips from BASSA as posted previously by Desertia? Or perhaps you mean bullying? Not too sure.
I will give up on the DA, as I can see that irrespective of the abject common sense that most of us must apply when dealing with day to day life, some people require cast concrete evidence of every little fact, even when the obvious stares them in the face. If it is proof however that you require and not hearsay then perhaps you could provide proof that BA did NOT request activation of the DA? The stream runs both ways.
as to:
People have died in the past to protect their rights
People have indeed died for their right to protest in the face of tyrannical or despotic Governments/Religions. Those people who are prepared to lay down their lives for a just cause are to be admired and applauded. This is hardly a comparable case so leave out the rhetoric please.
Junior trash
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BA have become morally bankrupt! You have seen in the press what the company think of us with their dirty tricks campaign, turning our own customers against us.
As employees of BA, BA are effectively your customer.
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Originally Posted by romans44
I do care but I also don't approve of bulling. People have died in the past to protect their rights, if you find that so hard to accept, I am afraid, is your problem
With regards to the DA agreement, a quick question. Since it came into being, have BASSA ever agreed to it being activated? If so, what were the circumstances? And as already asked by Flap33, what are the conditions surrounding it? Are there criteria that must be met? Or is it all, as I suspect, a bit vague?
dubh12000,
I'm sorry but I disagree. The current issues surrounding the DA agreement are highly relevant, in that they give a good view of the whole BASSA mindset.
Jsl
Edited to add: Damn! Way too slow. Back to SLF and JB for me then...
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Yet you're prepared to accept the word of Bassa, which has a proven track history of mis-leading us.
No, I am not prepared to accept the word of BASSA. I have always challenged BASSA the same way I challege people on here.
Life has taught me not to believe things unless I see them in black and white and that goes for both parties
I believe that BASSA is the lesser eveil of the two, but that is my opnion.
Correct me if I am wrong but BASSA has not broken any agreements yet, have they?