British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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4468
I genuinely have many friends who are pilots like yourself - and in all honesty the vast majority have sympathy with what has gone on - on this forum you tend to get extremes - in fact when you look at this rationally - on here you get some pilots who quite clearly have a lot of anger and venom to spit out against Cabin Crew, exactly the same as BASSA or CF against Pilots or BA etc
You have Glamgirl, Tiramisu and Hiflyer14 who put across their point - one might say at another extreme to some of their Cabin Crew colleagues - however they have a passion and genuine belief in what they are saying - however that is life and they, or we on the other side of the fence, should all be able to have a balanced point of view and be able to put that across - what tends to happen though is that emotions get in the way and it all goes a bit 'Pete Tong'.
I genuinely believe that Flight Crew colleagues earn their worth, because that is the contract they where offered. Similarly I believe that Cabin Crew earn their worth because that is the contract they where offered - where it goes wrong is a management who are totally out of touch with their workforce and who have utterly failed to engage their employees in the needs of the business - listen to the political commentators out there and they now are saying to a man that British Airways is failing spectacularly in its Industrial/Employee relationships
You have Glamgirl, Tiramisu and Hiflyer14 who put across their point - one might say at another extreme to some of their Cabin Crew colleagues - however they have a passion and genuine belief in what they are saying - however that is life and they, or we on the other side of the fence, should all be able to have a balanced point of view and be able to put that across - what tends to happen though is that emotions get in the way and it all goes a bit 'Pete Tong'.
I genuinely believe that Flight Crew colleagues earn their worth, because that is the contract they where offered. Similarly I believe that Cabin Crew earn their worth because that is the contract they where offered - where it goes wrong is a management who are totally out of touch with their workforce and who have utterly failed to engage their employees in the needs of the business - listen to the political commentators out there and they now are saying to a man that British Airways is failing spectacularly in its Industrial/Employee relationships
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And again: interested in your opinion regarding my post 4 or 5 up.
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A Lurker,
You know - I agree with pretty much every word you've written there. If I may, I'd suggest that the last sentence needs embellishment to make your statement perfect. The employee/employer relationship in BA is dysfunctional in two directions. The blame lies squarely at the feet of both management and the union I feel.
You know - I agree with pretty much every word you've written there. If I may, I'd suggest that the last sentence needs embellishment to make your statement perfect. The employee/employer relationship in BA is dysfunctional in two directions. The blame lies squarely at the feet of both management and the union I feel.
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Posted by A Lurker
I genuinely believe that Flight Crew colleagues earn their worth, because that is the contract they where offered. Similarly I believe that Cabin Crew earn their worth because that is the contract they where offered
I genuinely believe that Flight Crew colleagues earn their worth, because that is the contract they where offered. Similarly I believe that Cabin Crew earn their worth because that is the contract they where offered
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I am off to bed. Tomorrow is the ast day before a 5 month sabbatical. Traveling the world with a lot of flights on BA. I hope to see happy faces in the seats and in the galley.
Cheers for now!
Cheers for now!
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WWW and A Lurker, I am really very sad that you haven't felt able to respond to the points in my Post 6476. Genuinely very sad.
AL, you said:
In view of the recent court cases between Unite, and BA, I imagine it is extremely unlikely that BA will lose. You yourself have used the word 'agreement', not contract! However in the unlikely event that Unite were to prevail, I think it's a given that new crew will be immediately recruited to 'New Fleet'. BA have absolutely no other choice! Very quickly, large proportions of them will start to crew the HKG, SIN, BKK, SYD, NRT etc. (just as the temps did) Once the A380 arrives there will be promotions on to New Fleet to crew them. There will be no shortage of volunteers.
I am absolutely convinced there is a way out of this hole by negotiation. But your union won't!
I'm afraid in recent days, you have had a glimpse of Christmas Future.
Now shall we talk?
AL, you said:
What will your view be if BA lose the court case in February?
I am absolutely convinced there is a way out of this hole by negotiation. But your union won't!
I'm afraid in recent days, you have had a glimpse of Christmas Future.
Now shall we talk?
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Assuming your reps agree, then I reckon you can stop New Fleet in it's tracks! (Just as an aside, were you ever asked what you preferred?) The only reason I ask, is that pilots were. Not trying to be 'clever', just trying to illustrate a difference. That's all.
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The people recently fired from GlobeSpan or Air Lingus need newfleet in order to get a new job. BA can create more positions under newfleet.
It really could almost be interpreted as a win-win.
I can understand the fear of Old Fleet that newfleet will start passing them left and right for promotions and that Old Fleeters will be chased out of the company. That is something you could easily prevent with good and proper agreements with BA management.
Ok, really going now!
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Hi 4468,
reading your post u don't sound like a nasty piece of work.
I always welcome a debate as long as it is constructive and people don't start offending people.
Yes, you are right. BASSA did walk out on a negotiation, simply because they went to negotiate not to watch a slide show.
We as cabin crew, including our BASSA reps, have to take a mandatory class called ' In touch'. I don't believe you pilots have to do that but the class is all about the state of the industry and the financial state of the airline. BASSA did not need to take the class again as this would simply delay the negotiation process.
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What departments are you refering to? I have several friends who work on the ground and they have not reached any agreement yet.
Yes, I personally would . As long as I would get the same share that you will be getting.
As far as the new fleet, let me ask you this.
You were prepared to go on strike because the company wanted to employ pilots in another Country.
How would you feel if the company tomorrow told you they needed to save more money and the only way to do it would be the create a new fleet of pilots based at Heathrow under a different seniority list and T&C?
Can you honestly say that BALPA would simply say, sure not problem?
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Would you feel the same if the company started employing new pilots on a more realistic rate?
It takes two to tango. You can not negotiate when you have no one to negotiate with. Did you know that the talks were suspended soon after the judge decision? and this time it wasn't BASSA that walked away.
Totally agree with you on this one? but I think it is not CC you need to tell that.
reading your post u don't sound like a nasty piece of work.
I always welcome a debate as long as it is constructive and people don't start offending people.
Yes, you are right. BASSA did walk out on a negotiation, simply because they went to negotiate not to watch a slide show.
We as cabin crew, including our BASSA reps, have to take a mandatory class called ' In touch'. I don't believe you pilots have to do that but the class is all about the state of the industry and the financial state of the airline. BASSA did not need to take the class again as this would simply delay the negotiation process.
Virtually all other staff groups have agreed permanent changes
What departments are you refering to? I have several friends who work on the ground and they have not reached any agreement yet.
I ask you: Would you prefer a permanent 4% pay cut for all
As far as the new fleet, let me ask you this.
You were prepared to go on strike because the company wanted to employ pilots in another Country.
How would you feel if the company tomorrow told you they needed to save more money and the only way to do it would be the create a new fleet of pilots based at Heathrow under a different seniority list and T&C?
Can you honestly say that BALPA would simply say, sure not problem?
Start to think about how new joiners could be employed on rates of pay that are more realistic, without threatening your incomes. It must be possible
Would you feel the same if the company started employing new pilots on a more realistic rate?
Of course, in order to do that, your representatives have to be at the table. You know as well as I do, that it was BASSA that decided 'no negotiation' was their policy. Was that your choice? I understand there was a show of hands
Let's us talk without pre-condition or prejudice, and see were we can get?
Maybe we can start something here
Maybe we can start something here
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henkybaby
New joiners already join on BARP. 'New Fleet' really means new T&Cs. I suspect that after the inevitable negotiations, those new T&Cs will be tempered, if not eliminated.
BA can get what it wants without NF, though that is the 'cosh'!
New joiners already join on BARP. 'New Fleet' really means new T&Cs. I suspect that after the inevitable negotiations, those new T&Cs will be tempered, if not eliminated.
BA can get what it wants without NF, though that is the 'cosh'!
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henkybaby
Mate - if only you knew - any crew joining after 2003 (I think) are on ANOTHER totally different scheme - a money purchase whatever.
The pension fiasco will sink BA - not the Cabin Crew
The pension fiasco will sink BA - not the Cabin Crew