British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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This is not about money?
Of course it is, they are so afraid that new fleet will come in they think the only way to remove it is to remove Mr Walsh, then all their problems will be resolved. This is where the 30% pay cut comes from, someone has come up with that figure without knowing whether that will be the difference between new fleet pay and what they receive now or not.
It is unbeleiveable that cabin crew think they can remove the CEO just because he is doing the job he is paid to do instead of sucking-up to their union.
On the subject of him not giving any notice of the imposition of reduced crewing levels, it was not done overnight. BA gave 5 or 6 weeks notice that it would happen. BA also repeatedly said if no agreement was reached imposition would happen. The union did not believe him obvioulsy.
It is annoying to hear the continual nonsense that it was BA who refused to negotiate with Bassa instead of it being Bassa that refused to negotiate on a show of hand on the matter of negotiation at a race course meeting, they seem to have poor memories.
All of this is too personally pointed towards Mr Walsh, I have heard several c/crew state that their union will get rid of him. They really believe they can.
Of course it is, they are so afraid that new fleet will come in they think the only way to remove it is to remove Mr Walsh, then all their problems will be resolved. This is where the 30% pay cut comes from, someone has come up with that figure without knowing whether that will be the difference between new fleet pay and what they receive now or not.
It is unbeleiveable that cabin crew think they can remove the CEO just because he is doing the job he is paid to do instead of sucking-up to their union.
On the subject of him not giving any notice of the imposition of reduced crewing levels, it was not done overnight. BA gave 5 or 6 weeks notice that it would happen. BA also repeatedly said if no agreement was reached imposition would happen. The union did not believe him obvioulsy.
It is annoying to hear the continual nonsense that it was BA who refused to negotiate with Bassa instead of it being Bassa that refused to negotiate on a show of hand on the matter of negotiation at a race course meeting, they seem to have poor memories.
All of this is too personally pointed towards Mr Walsh, I have heard several c/crew state that their union will get rid of him. They really believe they can.
Last edited by Jean-Lill; 19th Dec 2009 at 21:02. Reason: spelling mistakes
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Hi SlideBusle,
you are basing you question on things that militant people say...BASSA,to my knowledge, never made this statment. Surely as CC you would know how galley FM works.
Yes, you are right we do have a good agreement and that is because of the hard work of our union. I am voting yes to protect our good agreement
you are basing you question on things that militant people say...BASSA,to my knowledge, never made this statment. Surely as CC you would know how galley FM works.
Hopefully we always will, I do not want to apologise for having good agreements
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Not directly related to Cabin Crew
Not directly related to Cabin Crew but shows what a mess this company is in
Now I want to make an observation without people shooting me down - I really do believe that this company is in meltdown - the management are not in control of any of the operational areas - the only area which is operating normally i.e. with a modicum of control, in my opinion, is Flight Crew - the rest of the company is a shambles
Passengers' luggage is left on plane after BA refuses to pay baggage handlers overtime
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 5:24 PM on 19th December 2009
Comments (33)
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Passengers left their luggage on a plane at Heathrow last night after being told by workers that they wouldn't be unloaded because staff were not being paid overtime.
Travellers waited for hours at the airport's Terminal 5 for bags to be unloaded from British Airways' planes, many of which had landed hours late because of the poor weather conditions.
One passenger on a flight from Prague said she saw a group of baggage handlers leave the terminal as hundreds of people were waiting in the baggage reclaim area for their suitcases.
Abandoned: Baggage handlers at Heathrow Terminal 5 left luggage on planes after BA bosses refused to pay them overtime when flights arrived late 'One told me they were leaving at the end of their shift because their employer would not pay them overtime.
'They advised us to leave without our bags because they wouldn't be unloaded. It was a complete shambles. One woman needed to get to her bag because she had milk inside it for her young child,' the passenger said.
Passenger Emma Smith said she was still waiting for her bags to be returned following her journey from Brussels to London yesterday.
The 28-year-old, who had been away on business, described the situation at baggage reclaim as 'chaos'.
She commented: 'People were sat on the floors, and looked like they'd been there for a long time.
'We must have been there for an hour waiting for our bags, but the same ones kept going round and round the carousel.'
Miss Smith said there were only two staff on the customer services desk, despite a long queue, and that customers were not told what was happening with their bags.
Eventually, forms were handed out so that customers could leave their details.
Miss Smith said: 'I was told when I rang this morning that I'd be able to track the progress of my bag in 24 hours' time. The whole situation is unacceptable.'
Her flight landed at 11.30pm but she only returned home to Windsor at 4am today because of delays at the airport.
British Airways repeated their apology to passengers and said the bags should be sent out by tomorrow.
A BA spokesman said: 'Due to the disruption caused by heavy snowfalls yesterday we do have a number of delayed transfer bags from cancelled flights in our care.
'We have taken on extra baggage teams and are working as hard as we can to get these bags on to their onward flights out of Terminal 5 as quickly as possible. 'This process has already started and we anticipate that the majority of bags will be put on to flights later today.'
The airline said it was operating a normal flying schedule today from both Heathrow and Gatwick but there may be some delays. 'This is due to aircraft, cabin and flight crew out of position caused by delays from yesterday's heavy snowfalls which is causing an impact on the schedule.
'Customers who are due to fly today are urged to check their flight details on ba.com before travelling to the airport. 'Customers whose flights have been cancelled can be rebooked on to a later flight or claim a full refund.
'We apologise to all our customers for the inconvenience caused.'
A spokesman for the GMB union claimed there had been staffing problems at UK airports because of a 'lack of flexibility' over contracts.
'We have been warning that there aren't enough staff at airports to cope with any disruption. 'This lack of staff is down to the low-cost flight model which means there are not enough staff to provide basic services.'
Now I want to make an observation without people shooting me down - I really do believe that this company is in meltdown - the management are not in control of any of the operational areas - the only area which is operating normally i.e. with a modicum of control, in my opinion, is Flight Crew - the rest of the company is a shambles
Passengers' luggage is left on plane after BA refuses to pay baggage handlers overtime
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 5:24 PM on 19th December 2009
Comments (33)
Add to My Stories
Passengers left their luggage on a plane at Heathrow last night after being told by workers that they wouldn't be unloaded because staff were not being paid overtime.
Travellers waited for hours at the airport's Terminal 5 for bags to be unloaded from British Airways' planes, many of which had landed hours late because of the poor weather conditions.
One passenger on a flight from Prague said she saw a group of baggage handlers leave the terminal as hundreds of people were waiting in the baggage reclaim area for their suitcases.
Abandoned: Baggage handlers at Heathrow Terminal 5 left luggage on planes after BA bosses refused to pay them overtime when flights arrived late 'One told me they were leaving at the end of their shift because their employer would not pay them overtime.
'They advised us to leave without our bags because they wouldn't be unloaded. It was a complete shambles. One woman needed to get to her bag because she had milk inside it for her young child,' the passenger said.
Passenger Emma Smith said she was still waiting for her bags to be returned following her journey from Brussels to London yesterday.
The 28-year-old, who had been away on business, described the situation at baggage reclaim as 'chaos'.
She commented: 'People were sat on the floors, and looked like they'd been there for a long time.
'We must have been there for an hour waiting for our bags, but the same ones kept going round and round the carousel.'
Miss Smith said there were only two staff on the customer services desk, despite a long queue, and that customers were not told what was happening with their bags.
Eventually, forms were handed out so that customers could leave their details.
Miss Smith said: 'I was told when I rang this morning that I'd be able to track the progress of my bag in 24 hours' time. The whole situation is unacceptable.'
Her flight landed at 11.30pm but she only returned home to Windsor at 4am today because of delays at the airport.
British Airways repeated their apology to passengers and said the bags should be sent out by tomorrow.
A BA spokesman said: 'Due to the disruption caused by heavy snowfalls yesterday we do have a number of delayed transfer bags from cancelled flights in our care.
'We have taken on extra baggage teams and are working as hard as we can to get these bags on to their onward flights out of Terminal 5 as quickly as possible. 'This process has already started and we anticipate that the majority of bags will be put on to flights later today.'
The airline said it was operating a normal flying schedule today from both Heathrow and Gatwick but there may be some delays. 'This is due to aircraft, cabin and flight crew out of position caused by delays from yesterday's heavy snowfalls which is causing an impact on the schedule.
'Customers who are due to fly today are urged to check their flight details on ba.com before travelling to the airport. 'Customers whose flights have been cancelled can be rebooked on to a later flight or claim a full refund.
'We apologise to all our customers for the inconvenience caused.'
A spokesman for the GMB union claimed there had been staffing problems at UK airports because of a 'lack of flexibility' over contracts.
'We have been warning that there aren't enough staff at airports to cope with any disruption. 'This lack of staff is down to the low-cost flight model which means there are not enough staff to provide basic services.'
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Q. The injunction was granted because some people voted and had or were leaving the company, yes ?
With number staff about 12k and the process takes 3/5 weeks, would not be surprised during the next try, some staff leave the company between the start and finnish of the process ?
Did the Judge allow because the number of people leaving was so large as a %, if yes, do we know how big the % has to be for same result next time ?
On another note, this thread was at about 500,000 views last weekend, now at 800,000 views, looks like it will slide upto the 1M by Xmas day, wondering if the views reset or can they go over the 1M ?
With number staff about 12k and the process takes 3/5 weeks, would not be surprised during the next try, some staff leave the company between the start and finnish of the process ?
Did the Judge allow because the number of people leaving was so large as a %, if yes, do we know how big the % has to be for same result next time ?
On another note, this thread was at about 500,000 views last weekend, now at 800,000 views, looks like it will slide upto the 1M by Xmas day, wondering if the views reset or can they go over the 1M ?
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With all due respect it's a big mistake to think folk you disagree with don't know what they are talking about.
In these internet days you can find news and a cross-section of commentary about almost anything that's happening in the world. Sure the Daily Mail doesn't support the CC but Gregor Gall the guy who wrote the Guardian article aint exactly neutral either. According to his own website his expertise is in “collective mobilisation of workers, union organising, industrial action ….. and writes regularly for the Morning Star …….” (Never heard of the Morning Star before, turns out the name was changed from the Daily Worker.)
In these internet days you can find news and a cross-section of commentary about almost anything that's happening in the world. Sure the Daily Mail doesn't support the CC but Gregor Gall the guy who wrote the Guardian article aint exactly neutral either. According to his own website his expertise is in “collective mobilisation of workers, union organising, industrial action ….. and writes regularly for the Morning Star …….” (Never heard of the Morning Star before, turns out the name was changed from the Daily Worker.)
I would never dream to make comments or pass judgement on someone who works for another company based solely on what I hear or read..
How would you feel if I came in your office and start telling you what it is wrong with you just because I have read it on the internet or a paper?
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romans44,
Pay cuts are all about money. Taking a crew member off each flight is about saving the company money. Every crew member who told me they Voted Yes to Strike said they were Striking against New Fleet because that's what BASSA told them. New Fleet is Columbus, and Columbus is all about new T's and C's for cabin crew which is all about money.
You can never get money back once business is booming. With respect romans44, I have been flying for 26 years. Over the years I have seen payments decrease from long day payments, overtime rates and rest day working. They have never increased and I stand corrected as always.
As for Willie Walsh getting paid £60,000, he is the CEO after all. Have you looked at what other CEOs get paid? I'm not defending Willie Walsh but just questioning what Heads of Companies get paid.
Changing the subject, well done for using the quote box, it took me a little while to figure it out as well. It's nice to see other posters on this site so helpful.
How are you finding PPrune? I have learnt a lot from it myself.
I am BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of my employer's.
Pay cuts are all about money. Taking a crew member off each flight is about saving the company money. Every crew member who told me they Voted Yes to Strike said they were Striking against New Fleet because that's what BASSA told them. New Fleet is Columbus, and Columbus is all about new T's and C's for cabin crew which is all about money.
You can never get money back once business is booming. With respect romans44, I have been flying for 26 years. Over the years I have seen payments decrease from long day payments, overtime rates and rest day working. They have never increased and I stand corrected as always.
As for Willie Walsh getting paid £60,000, he is the CEO after all. Have you looked at what other CEOs get paid? I'm not defending Willie Walsh but just questioning what Heads of Companies get paid.
Changing the subject, well done for using the quote box, it took me a little while to figure it out as well. It's nice to see other posters on this site so helpful.
How are you finding PPrune? I have learnt a lot from it myself.
I am BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of my employer's.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 19th Dec 2009 at 21:41.
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Alurker
I agree with you. Not enough staff to achieve optimal customer service. Not enough money to hire more staff or even maintain current staffing levels. You have identified the problem.
There is nobody to blame for that. The causes are outside of the control of the company. Did BA management make wrong choices that have cost the company money? Possibly. They're not evil though, they're human. Management is not a science, it is a guessing game.
But - again - you have identified the problem clearly.
Now we need to find a way to increase staffing or service levels with the same amount of money. Further increasing the revenue* looks out of the question right now as I'm sure you'll agree.
I think us passengers have accepted already that we should be expecting 'crisis service levels' and a partial degradation of the product for at least a couple of years.
Regards,
Henk
* EDIT: Remember that even the passengers have contributed to the solution. We are now paying for seat assignments for instance. Some 60.000 of us (if my numbers are correct) already contributed tens of pounds per sector for something that was free before.
I agree with you. Not enough staff to achieve optimal customer service. Not enough money to hire more staff or even maintain current staffing levels. You have identified the problem.
There is nobody to blame for that. The causes are outside of the control of the company. Did BA management make wrong choices that have cost the company money? Possibly. They're not evil though, they're human. Management is not a science, it is a guessing game.
But - again - you have identified the problem clearly.
Now we need to find a way to increase staffing or service levels with the same amount of money. Further increasing the revenue* looks out of the question right now as I'm sure you'll agree.
I think us passengers have accepted already that we should be expecting 'crisis service levels' and a partial degradation of the product for at least a couple of years.
Regards,
Henk
* EDIT: Remember that even the passengers have contributed to the solution. We are now paying for seat assignments for instance. Some 60.000 of us (if my numbers are correct) already contributed tens of pounds per sector for something that was free before.
Last edited by henkybaby; 19th Dec 2009 at 21:51.
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As I understand it (the judgement is available online) the reason the judge allowed the injunction had nothing to do with the numbers of ineligible votes.
Had the branch (BASSA) lifted a finger to actually advise those leaving that they should not vote, then the judge would have found in favor of Unite. The strike would have proceeded unhindered.
However.... Not only could Unite not demonstrate that they had attempted to prevent ineligible voters from responding. In fact it was shown that the Chair of the branch, Ms Malone, actually replied to a question on the BASSA website in such a way, that actually encouraged the ineligible members to vote 'for' strike action!
She is either incompetent, or naive. She single handedly caused the whole strike to be deemed illegal!
Yet still she is cheered to the rooftops!
You have to wonder!
As I understand it (the judgement is available online) the reason the judge allowed the injunction had nothing to do with the numbers of ineligible votes.
Had the branch (BASSA) lifted a finger to actually advise those leaving that they should not vote, then the judge would have found in favor of Unite. The strike would have proceeded unhindered.
However.... Not only could Unite not demonstrate that they had attempted to prevent ineligible voters from responding. In fact it was shown that the Chair of the branch, Ms Malone, actually replied to a question on the BASSA website in such a way, that actually encouraged the ineligible members to vote 'for' strike action!
She is either incompetent, or naive. She single handedly caused the whole strike to be deemed illegal!
Yet still she is cheered to the rooftops!
You have to wonder!
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Nature can work in strange ways since Justice Cox (aha) ruled on Thursday the Bassa tears have turned to snow and ice bringing chaos to London's airports perhaps an injunction against the Met office will be next to follow. Roll on January REBALLOT AGAIN IN 2010 now that has such a ring to it.
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4468
Miss Malone is the leader - the members look up to her - they envy her!
If she would tell one of her members to jump - they wouldn't ask why but how high. That's the power she has.
She is either incompetent, or naive. She single handedly caused the whole strike to be deemed illegal!
Yet still she is cheered to the rooftops!
You have to wonder!
Yet still she is cheered to the rooftops!
You have to wonder!
If she would tell one of her members to jump - they wouldn't ask why but how high. That's the power she has.
[/chill mode]
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4468
No no no - it's £100 per day when she is on UNION DUTY
For god's sake - tell you what why don't we bring up FORCED DRAFT payments and the many 000's of pounds that can make people - at the least the £100 per day is from the members not from the company coffers
For god's sake - tell you what why don't we bring up FORCED DRAFT payments and the many 000's of pounds that can make people - at the least the £100 per day is from the members not from the company coffers