British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Deeceethree wrote:
Another brilliant post - spot on ... 
fincastle84,
Your Christmas travel plans are safe. What BASSA are undertaking here is merely a 'consultative’ or ‘indicative’ ballot - kind of like a referendum - and it has absolutely no effect on BA flights because it cannot be used as a strike platform. And I bet there aren't that many BASSA members that are truly aware of that. I'll say it again - BASSA cannot call a strike on this ballot.
It would appear that the main reason BASSA are doing this is window dressing - trying to pressure the company (because it does upset BA's punters and some take their business elsewhere) and trying to cover up all the bluster issued earlier, "If they impose, we will ballot." But it is largely useless and meaningless - they can't do a thing with the result, except perhaps issue more juvenile edicts and claptrap. Hollow nonsense, all of it!
Enjoy your holiday!
Your Christmas travel plans are safe. What BASSA are undertaking here is merely a 'consultative’ or ‘indicative’ ballot - kind of like a referendum - and it has absolutely no effect on BA flights because it cannot be used as a strike platform. And I bet there aren't that many BASSA members that are truly aware of that. I'll say it again - BASSA cannot call a strike on this ballot.
It would appear that the main reason BASSA are doing this is window dressing - trying to pressure the company (because it does upset BA's punters and some take their business elsewhere) and trying to cover up all the bluster issued earlier, "If they impose, we will ballot." But it is largely useless and meaningless - they can't do a thing with the result, except perhaps issue more juvenile edicts and claptrap. Hollow nonsense, all of it!
Enjoy your holiday!
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Secret
Spin Doctor,
I assume that in order to preserve the integrity of the vote and ensure no reprisals from either side, the serial numbers cannot be matched to the individual who voted?
I assume that in order to preserve the integrity of the vote and ensure no reprisals from either side, the serial numbers cannot be matched to the individual who voted?
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The official guidelines on strike ballots require that:
"Those voting must be allowed to do so without interference from or constraint imposed by the union or any of its members, officials or employees. So far as reasonably practicable every member properly entitled to vote must be able to vote in secret."
Identifying individuals and how they have voted from the ballot papers would, I believe, invalidate the ballot.
"Those voting must be allowed to do so without interference from or constraint imposed by the union or any of its members, officials or employees. So far as reasonably practicable every member properly entitled to vote must be able to vote in secret."
Identifying individuals and how they have voted from the ballot papers would, I believe, invalidate the ballot.
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Dear Colleagues
Vote "YES" for Industrial Action
Say "NO" to Imposition
As Unite General Secretaries, we are writing to ask you to support the recommendation and vote "Yes" for industrial action. We can assure you that we have not arrived at this position without careful consideration. However, we do not subscribe to the actions of British Airways in attempting to impose changes to your terms and conditions.
Unite has attempted to resolve the current differences we have with British Airways through negotiation, but despite our efforts, the Company, on 6th October, announced its intentions to enforce changes to the way you work as of 16th November.
These actions are totally unacceptable to Unite and, as such, we have been left with no alternative other than to fully endorse the call for an industrial action ballot in support of our BA Cabin Crew membership.
Please find enclosed a ballot paper which must be completed and returned, by no later than noon 14th December, 2009 in the prepaid envelope provided. Also enclosed is a newsletter from the Unite the Union Cabin Crew Representatives in support of our recommendation.
Please support your Union, vote "YES".
Best wishes
Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley
Joint General Secretaries
Vote "YES" for Industrial Action
Say "NO" to Imposition
As Unite General Secretaries, we are writing to ask you to support the recommendation and vote "Yes" for industrial action. We can assure you that we have not arrived at this position without careful consideration. However, we do not subscribe to the actions of British Airways in attempting to impose changes to your terms and conditions.
Unite has attempted to resolve the current differences we have with British Airways through negotiation, but despite our efforts, the Company, on 6th October, announced its intentions to enforce changes to the way you work as of 16th November.
These actions are totally unacceptable to Unite and, as such, we have been left with no alternative other than to fully endorse the call for an industrial action ballot in support of our BA Cabin Crew membership.
Please find enclosed a ballot paper which must be completed and returned, by no later than noon 14th December, 2009 in the prepaid envelope provided. Also enclosed is a newsletter from the Unite the Union Cabin Crew Representatives in support of our recommendation.
Please support your Union, vote "YES".
Best wishes
Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley
Joint General Secretaries
Whilst the proceeding legal niceties do indeed cover the requirements for ballot I am amazed to see so little detail in the reasoning!
Once again, as with the last ballot which BASSA issued, they seem to be going for a 'scatter gun' approach. Where in this reasoning other than the cover all of:
we do not subscribe to the actions of British Airways in attempting to impose changes to your terms and conditions.
The supposed spin for negotiations will play directly into the hands of the BA QC as they have the transcripts of the meetings. Meetings which BA allowed to continue for a considerable time after the deadlines set other departments in an attempt to achieve reasoned negotiation. Those 'negotiations' from BASSA ended with infighting between BASSA and CC89. Not the most auspicious of endings.
BASSA have drawn their guns and shot themselves in both feet. This ballot isn't worth the paper its printed on. BA will tear it to pieces in court and then come after the costs!
Please don't allow your Union to commit financial suicide on your behalf!
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..Ahem, me too, spoke withe several members, 'down-route' and 'off-duty' - all voted NO. the message is getting through re BASSA's economies of truths. IMHO, and given the Iwo Jima and Holocaust hijacking, the BASSA reps have, perhaps, 1 option remaining - A name change, by deed poll, to Douglas Bader, Guy Gibson, Bernard Montgomery.. or ..Florence Nightingale, Joan of Arc.......
,
GF
,GF
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Well as Bassa seem to be using the anoalogies of human struggle in adversity and combat by hijacking emotive historical images and quotes heres another one.
"There are no American troops in Baghdad."
Mr C.Ali baghdad circa 2003.
Or as Saddam was supposed to have said on the gallows:
"I dont think that noose is tight enough. Here let me do it and I might as well get the bloody lever while Im at it. If you want something doing youve got to do it yourself this hanging is a victory for the Baathists etc etc"...mumble mumble...clank twang snap.
In fact an image of Mr Hussein et al dangling from the end of a rope may be a fitting and appropiate symbology substitute for the Iwo Jima image after all this has ended.
"There are no American troops in Baghdad."
Mr C.Ali baghdad circa 2003.
Or as Saddam was supposed to have said on the gallows:
"I dont think that noose is tight enough. Here let me do it and I might as well get the bloody lever while Im at it. If you want something doing youve got to do it yourself this hanging is a victory for the Baathists etc etc"...mumble mumble...clank twang snap.
In fact an image of Mr Hussein et al dangling from the end of a rope may be a fitting and appropiate symbology substitute for the Iwo Jima image after all this has ended.
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The important thing is to keep getting the TRUTH out to BASSA members.
Truth about the leaders' refusal to review BA's accounts when offered.
Truth about the sham of savings offered and the lies still being perpetrated about what they were worth.
Truth about BASSA's refusal to stay at meetings with their own union to the point where that union criticised them for not trying.
Truth about the woeful position of the industry and the loss of jobs still happening.
Truth about the economy, the inevitable increase in unemployment and the the effect of the exchequer printing money to get out of it.
Truth about the ability of BA to sack any striker at will and deal with the consequences.
Truth about the public's complete lack of support for a strike and who they will blame if there is one.
And most importantly truth about how the BASSA leaders are so desperate to protect their personal packages that they've acquired over the years without ever really earning them, that they are willing to lie and send those without the facts to strike on their behalf, and risk them losing their jobs in the process.
The only way to find the truth is to challenge those in authority. They have been there too long and they are not looking after their electorate, but their own interests.
If you are a BASSA member just reading this thread, please question the motives of your leadership. They are only looking after themselves.
VOTE NO AND RESIGN FROM BASSA!
Truth about the leaders' refusal to review BA's accounts when offered.
Truth about the sham of savings offered and the lies still being perpetrated about what they were worth.
Truth about BASSA's refusal to stay at meetings with their own union to the point where that union criticised them for not trying.
Truth about the woeful position of the industry and the loss of jobs still happening.
Truth about the economy, the inevitable increase in unemployment and the the effect of the exchequer printing money to get out of it.
Truth about the ability of BA to sack any striker at will and deal with the consequences.
Truth about the public's complete lack of support for a strike and who they will blame if there is one.
And most importantly truth about how the BASSA leaders are so desperate to protect their personal packages that they've acquired over the years without ever really earning them, that they are willing to lie and send those without the facts to strike on their behalf, and risk them losing their jobs in the process.
The only way to find the truth is to challenge those in authority. They have been there too long and they are not looking after their electorate, but their own interests.
If you are a BASSA member just reading this thread, please question the motives of your leadership. They are only looking after themselves.
VOTE NO AND RESIGN FROM BASSA!
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Such a load of crap!
I voted no and shoved it down the letterbox today. Time to resign from BASSA - set an example and do the same - because Miss Malone and her brigade are not nothing but of bunch of selfish old contract gits who are trying to protect their own dosh at any cost even it if includes selling some crew down the road.
At least some of the membership fee came to be of some sort of benefit - thanks for the postage!
To Miss Malone - and I can bet my rocket hard backside, which I have worked very hard in the gym to get, that you are reading this - you are a disgrace to the entire cabin crew community. Did your mother not teach you to be honest and always tell the truth?
I voted no and shoved it down the letterbox today. Time to resign from BASSA - set an example and do the same - because Miss Malone and her brigade are not nothing but of bunch of selfish old contract gits who are trying to protect their own dosh at any cost even it if includes selling some crew down the road.
At least some of the membership fee came to be of some sort of benefit - thanks for the postage!
To Miss Malone - and I can bet my rocket hard backside, which I have worked very hard in the gym to get, that you are reading this - you are a disgrace to the entire cabin crew community. Did your mother not teach you to be honest and always tell the truth?
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Desertia
Perhaps it will be all a damp squib. I think the "No's" are still in the lead here (although obviously we are only talking about the ones brave enough to post without fear of reprisals).
If you want some laughable reading, I suggest you read the very first post of the "I am slightly worried" thread over at CF where it is claimed that probably all of 4000 members will vote in favour of a strike. The vast majority of those 4000 people are not even active members and haven't raised their opinion. I could easily estimate that less than 200 (?) members actually write anything there and when they do - with the same jargon - it's always the same people giving the same support.
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Deeceethree,
I'm not sure that you are correct. The link I included several posts above was to a document from the dti on industrial action. Annex 2 includes a sample ballot paper which, by the sound of it, is pretty much exactly what the BASSA ballot paper looks like.
I'm not sure that you are correct. The link I included several posts above was to a document from the dti on industrial action. Annex 2 includes a sample ballot paper which, by the sound of it, is pretty much exactly what the BASSA ballot paper looks like.
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For bks and Balboy
Hi there
There is no clear answer to your question just yet. I can say that there are no New-Entrant training courses planned at present although the planning is only just into the new year. Bill Francis when asked was very clear that, even with the reductions he is putting through at the moment, we are likely to still find ourselves with a crew surplus for the winter (although it may be that it varies from rank to rank and base to base so there will be transfers actioned). As to whether we will need more crew for the summer schedule, he will not know until the summer schedule is planned but he wouldn't be led into speculating! It seems it may be a few months anyway, so don't put your life on hold just in case.
Sorry if that isn't what you were hoping for.
Regards
Ottergirl
PS The rest of your post is even harder to answer. The proposed New Fleet would save money by the crew working more or less to Scheme and paid on an hourly rate. That said, IFCE management say that the terms of the new fleet are still available for discussion so none the wiser.
There is no clear answer to your question just yet. I can say that there are no New-Entrant training courses planned at present although the planning is only just into the new year. Bill Francis when asked was very clear that, even with the reductions he is putting through at the moment, we are likely to still find ourselves with a crew surplus for the winter (although it may be that it varies from rank to rank and base to base so there will be transfers actioned). As to whether we will need more crew for the summer schedule, he will not know until the summer schedule is planned but he wouldn't be led into speculating! It seems it may be a few months anyway, so don't put your life on hold just in case.
Sorry if that isn't what you were hoping for.
Regards
Ottergirl
PS The rest of your post is even harder to answer. The proposed New Fleet would save money by the crew working more or less to Scheme and paid on an hourly rate. That said, IFCE management say that the terms of the new fleet are still available for discussion so none the wiser.
Last edited by ottergirl; 18th Nov 2009 at 20:16. Reason: adding
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Evening All,
I feel compelled to make my first post. I've been lurking a while and in recent days have been boosted by the responses from actual crew on this thread.
I work on the ground and we have had many new working practices 'imposed' on us in the last year. Basically my working hours have increased as a result by about 10-20% for no extra money and i won't be getting a pay rise next year either.
Compared to my friends (outside of BA) i actually feel quite lucky and bizarely enough new doors and oppurtunities have openned as a result of the squeeze.
I'm glad reality seems to have kicked in and crew appear to be reacting (finally) to the draconian and unrealistic propaganda spouted by the unions.
They've let you down badly. Not because they don't support you but mainly because they have their own interests at heart and i'd have to question exactly what these are.
When you look at the ballot form, the only question you need to ask yourself is:
'Do i want to work for BA post 21st Dec ?'
Its 2009 guys and the option of working for BA whilst maintaining existing salary and T&Cs isn't on the table.
I'm not saying i agree with New Fleet or any of the other new working practices but don't fall in to the trap of being so conceited you think your the only department affected and/or are irreplaceable.
Having said that, i sincerely feel for you having to make that decision whilst working in a very confined/pressurised/close knit ommunity at the moment.
Yours,
Arthur.
I feel compelled to make my first post. I've been lurking a while and in recent days have been boosted by the responses from actual crew on this thread.
I work on the ground and we have had many new working practices 'imposed' on us in the last year. Basically my working hours have increased as a result by about 10-20% for no extra money and i won't be getting a pay rise next year either.
Compared to my friends (outside of BA) i actually feel quite lucky and bizarely enough new doors and oppurtunities have openned as a result of the squeeze.
I'm glad reality seems to have kicked in and crew appear to be reacting (finally) to the draconian and unrealistic propaganda spouted by the unions.
They've let you down badly. Not because they don't support you but mainly because they have their own interests at heart and i'd have to question exactly what these are.
When you look at the ballot form, the only question you need to ask yourself is:
'Do i want to work for BA post 21st Dec ?'
Its 2009 guys and the option of working for BA whilst maintaining existing salary and T&Cs isn't on the table.
I'm not saying i agree with New Fleet or any of the other new working practices but don't fall in to the trap of being so conceited you think your the only department affected and/or are irreplaceable.
Having said that, i sincerely feel for you having to make that decision whilst working in a very confined/pressurised/close knit ommunity at the moment.
Yours,
Arthur.
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Legality of ballot
Does anyone know the legality of the ballot if when instigated, the address list of members is correct, but by the time of ballot closing, several members have resigned?
spin doctor,
I am not doubting your post - the point being made here is that this ballot is obviously nothing more than consultative:
There will be no strike over this ballot. BASSA/Unite might wave a result around after 14th December but it won't mean diddely squat (other than lost bookings ....). There is no reason given on the ballot for strike action. Whatever BASSA might think, they can't hold a strike just because they are feeling tired and emotional!
This ballot is largely posturing, but ultimately meaningless and ineffective.
I am not doubting your post - the point being made here is that this ballot is obviously nothing more than consultative:
Trade unions sometimes hold ‘consultative’ or ‘indicative’ ballots asking members whether they might be prepared to take industrial action about a particular issue. Trade unions are free to hold these ballots in-line with their rules. However, the trade union will need to hold a further legal ballot if they wish to proceed with any industrial action.
This ballot is largely posturing, but ultimately meaningless and ineffective.
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On another matter: Eurofleet rosters where published last night, so those union members voting yes will now know what they are rostered on the 21st .... assuming that to be the 1st day of action.
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I din't know where all the so called NO voters are coming from im only hearing a YES vote perhaps a few non speakers are voting NO well thats a choice you make. I have no doubt that a massive YES will be returned as for the court case we will all have to wait and see as im sure most of you are not qualified to make that judgement. I do not i repeat do not trust this company an inch they have people running the company out for personal gain and when it all goes wrong as it will then take flight off to another company. As for cosy little chats at hotels well that idea came a day late as most of us had put a big fat X in the YES box on the ballot paper and had sent it back in the post good planning once again.