British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
PPRuNe Person
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Ballot papers are out. So you can be sure that some very clever bean-counters at BA are now assessing the effect of this on bookings. This effect will be translated into a sum of money which will be added to IFCE's savings target.
Depending on how large that sum is, New Fleet will be here quicker than you can say Box D.
Unite are probably cringing and working out how quickly they can ditch BASSA.
Things at BA will never be the same again for crew and some won't even know what has hit them
Depending on how large that sum is, New Fleet will be here quicker than you can say Box D.
Unite are probably cringing and working out how quickly they can ditch BASSA.
Things at BA will never be the same again for crew and some won't even know what has hit them
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I have been asking the same question, WHY STRIKE? Unfortunately I hoped CFC would provide some daylight but he seems to have disappeared from this thread.
As to Unite's comment that quote:
' the passengers won't blame the CC for ruining both Christmas & BAs image '.
OH YES WE WILL!
As to Unite's comment that quote:
' the passengers won't blame the CC for ruining both Christmas & BAs image '.
OH YES WE WILL!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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The ballot paper itself just says are you prepared to take strike action? Yes or No.
That said, a strike ballot paper cannot say more than the above so at the risk of putting someone on the spot for an answer:
WHAT IS YOUR REASON FOR A STRIKE?
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Consultative/Indicative?
So, has this turned into just a "consultative/indicative" ballot? If it has, did Unite forget to mention it?
The following is taken from Industrial action ballots : Directgov - Employment (my italics)
Carrying out industrial action ballots
Industrial action ballots need to be carried out correctly (properly conducted). An industrial action ballot is properly conducted if:
Other industrial action ballots
Sometimes, trade unions ballot their members about ending industrial action after it has begun, or about offers made by the employer to end the dispute in question. Those ballots are not a statutory requirement, and are for trade unions to decide whether to arrange or not, in-line with their rules.
Trade unions sometimes hold ‘consultative’ or ‘indicative’ ballots asking members whether they might be prepared to take industrial action about a particular issue. Trade unions are free to hold these ballots in-line with their rules. However, the trade union will need to hold a further legal ballot if they wish to proceed with any industrial action.
The following is taken from Industrial action ballots : Directgov - Employment (my italics)
Carrying out industrial action ballots
Industrial action ballots need to be carried out correctly (properly conducted). An industrial action ballot is properly conducted if:
- it is subject to scrutiny by a qualified independent person appointed by the trade union (this is not needed if the number of members entitled to vote is 50 or fewer)
- it was held before the trade union asked its members to take, or continue taking, industrial action
- the right to vote is given to all members the trade union intends to ask to take part in the industrial action
- it is conducted by marking a voting paper
- voting is by post
- the voting paper includes information about the voting process (eg what you are voting on and where to send your paper)
- as soon as the trade union can, after holding the ballot, it tells everyone entitled to vote how many votes were cast and the number of 'yes' votes, 'no' votes and spoiled voting papers
- a strike
- industrial action other than a strike
- both of these
Other industrial action ballots
Sometimes, trade unions ballot their members about ending industrial action after it has begun, or about offers made by the employer to end the dispute in question. Those ballots are not a statutory requirement, and are for trade unions to decide whether to arrange or not, in-line with their rules.
Trade unions sometimes hold ‘consultative’ or ‘indicative’ ballots asking members whether they might be prepared to take industrial action about a particular issue. Trade unions are free to hold these ballots in-line with their rules. However, the trade union will need to hold a further legal ballot if they wish to proceed with any industrial action.
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Consultative/Indicative?
So, has this turned into just a "consultative/indicative" ballot? If it has, did Unite forget to mention it?
The following is taken from Industrial action ballots : Directgov - Employment (my italics)
Carrying out industrial action ballots
Industrial action ballots need to be carried out correctly (properly conducted). An industrial action ballot is properly conducted if:
Other industrial action ballots
Sometimes, trade unions ballot their members about ending industrial action after it has begun, or about offers made by the employer to end the dispute in question. Those ballots are not a statutory requirement, and are for trade unions to decide whether to arrange or not, in-line with their rules.
Trade unions sometimes hold ‘consultative’ or ‘indicative’ ballots asking members whether they might be prepared to take industrial action about a particular issue. Trade unions are free to hold these ballots in-line with their rules. However, the trade union will need to hold a further legal ballot if they wish to proceed with any industrial action.
So, has this turned into just a "consultative/indicative" ballot? If it has, did Unite forget to mention it?
The following is taken from Industrial action ballots : Directgov - Employment (my italics)
Carrying out industrial action ballots
Industrial action ballots need to be carried out correctly (properly conducted). An industrial action ballot is properly conducted if:
- it is subject to scrutiny by a qualified independent person appointed by the trade union (this is not needed if the number of members entitled to vote is 50 or fewer)
- it was held before the trade union asked its members to take, or continue taking, industrial action
- the right to vote is given to all members the trade union intends to ask to take part in the industrial action
- it is conducted by marking a voting paper
- voting is by post
- the voting paper includes information about the voting process (eg what you are voting on and where to send your paper)
- as soon as the trade union can, after holding the ballot, it tells everyone entitled to vote how many votes were cast and the number of 'yes' votes, 'no' votes and spoiled voting papers
- a strike
- industrial action other than a strike
- both of these
Other industrial action ballots
Sometimes, trade unions ballot their members about ending industrial action after it has begun, or about offers made by the employer to end the dispute in question. Those ballots are not a statutory requirement, and are for trade unions to decide whether to arrange or not, in-line with their rules.
Trade unions sometimes hold ‘consultative’ or ‘indicative’ ballots asking members whether they might be prepared to take industrial action about a particular issue. Trade unions are free to hold these ballots in-line with their rules. However, the trade union will need to hold a further legal ballot if they wish to proceed with any industrial action.
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1st Class - bet my NO vote beats yours in the post!!
TorC - I voted NO and posted it back so quickly I honestly can't remember
, but my recollection is that was the wording.
Anyone still hung on to this ridiculous ballot long enough to be able to print the wording?
IheartMBT - I think you'll find the Union have said we don't have a vote when it comes to New Fleet.
TorC - I voted NO and posted it back so quickly I honestly can't remember
, but my recollection is that was the wording.Anyone still hung on to this ridiculous ballot long enough to be able to print the wording?
IheartMBT - I think you'll find the Union have said we don't have a vote when it comes to New Fleet.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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I will be very interested to see the wording of the ballot paper as this will be the key. Certainly from what a couple of posters have said, it may not dot the legal "i" or cross the legal "t", which means it's consultative only.
If it is consultative, there cannot legally be a strike at the end of it, which means it amounts to rabble rousing and that is likely to cause BASSA/Unite to be held liable for any costs incurred by BA. Pointless in other words.
If it is consultative, there cannot legally be a strike at the end of it, which means it amounts to rabble rousing and that is likely to cause BASSA/Unite to be held liable for any costs incurred by BA. Pointless in other words.
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Actually, it looks as if the ballot papers are correct, and do not need the detail on the paper itself.
Go here http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file18013.pdf and see page 22.
Go here http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file18013.pdf and see page 22.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Good to know they're bright enough to realise that if you're going to get sued within an inch of your life, you may as well make a fight of it.
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Ozzieo
Don`t see many on here so far saying they have voted yes.4 on my crew yesterday said they would be voting No.
Did you see the high density config A380 carries 853 passengers and Airbus has just had 2 orders for it.Do you know how many crew it needs?
- 20. BA 747 carry 291 pax with 15 crew now.Health and safety! Come on !
Don`t see many on here so far saying they have voted yes.4 on my crew yesterday said they would be voting No.
Did you see the high density config A380 carries 853 passengers and Airbus has just had 2 orders for it.Do you know how many crew it needs?
- 20. BA 747 carry 291 pax with 15 crew now.Health and safety! Come on !
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Ballot Paper details part 1
Question: Are you willing to take part in strike action? Mark a cross (x) in one box only - Yes or No.
Please answer question by putting a cross "X" in the appropriate box.
If you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment. However, if you are dismissed for taking part in strike or industrial action which is cancelled officially and is otherwise lawful, the dismissal will be unfair if it takes place fewer than twelve weeks after you started taking part in the action, and depending on the circumstances may be unfair if it takes place later.
In the event of a vote in favour of industrial action only the Executive Council, a Joint General Secretary or a Full Time Officer nominated by a Joint General Secretary are authorised for the purposes of s.233 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 to call upon members to take part or continue to take part in industrial action.
Please return your completed ballot paper immediately in the pre-paid envelope provided.
Your ballot paper should be received by the Independent Scrutineer, (address edited out) no later than NOON on MONDAY 14th DECEMBER 2009.
Due to strike action by postal workers there is currently significant disruption to the UK postal service. We therefore advise that you return your ballot paper to us immediately in the pre-paid envelope provided - do not delay.
Please answer question by putting a cross "X" in the appropriate box.
If you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment. However, if you are dismissed for taking part in strike or industrial action which is cancelled officially and is otherwise lawful, the dismissal will be unfair if it takes place fewer than twelve weeks after you started taking part in the action, and depending on the circumstances may be unfair if it takes place later.
In the event of a vote in favour of industrial action only the Executive Council, a Joint General Secretary or a Full Time Officer nominated by a Joint General Secretary are authorised for the purposes of s.233 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 to call upon members to take part or continue to take part in industrial action.
Please return your completed ballot paper immediately in the pre-paid envelope provided.
Your ballot paper should be received by the Independent Scrutineer, (address edited out) no later than NOON on MONDAY 14th DECEMBER 2009.
Due to strike action by postal workers there is currently significant disruption to the UK postal service. We therefore advise that you return your ballot paper to us immediately in the pre-paid envelope provided - do not delay.
This is what the ballot paper itself actually says. (The bit where the "x" needs to be put). I have a couple of issues with this already:
1. There is a serial number on top of this piece of paper, which is to be sent back to the Scrutineer. How do we know for sure that our vote is secret? Maybe I'm becoming ever more cynical, but I can't help but think the serial number may be linked to my address.
2. AFAIK the postal strike has been sorted out. Did I miss something? I know there will be a back log of post, but the wording above insinuates that the postal strike is still on-going.
More to follow.
Gg
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Ballot Paper details part 2
Dear Colleagues
Vote "YES" for Industrial Action
Say "NO" to Imposition
As Unite General Secretaries, we are writing to ask you to support the recommendation and vote "Yes" for industrial action. We can assure you that we have not arrived at this position without careful consideration. However, we do not subscribe to the actions of British Airways in attempting to impose changes to your terms and conditions.
Unite has attempted to resolve the current differences we have with British Airways through negotiation, but despite our efforts, the Company, on 6th October, announced its intentions to enforce changes to the way you work as of 16th November.
These actions are totally unacceptable to Unite and, as such, we have been left with no alternative other than to fully endorse the call for an industrial action ballot in support of our BA Cabin Crew membership.
Please find enclosed a ballot paper which must be completed and returned, by no later than noon 14th December, 2009 in the prepaid envelope provided. Also enclosed is a newsletter from the Unite the Union Cabin Crew Representatives in support of our recommendation.
Please support your Union, vote "YES".
Best wishes
Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley
Joint General Secretaries
Vote "YES" for Industrial Action
Say "NO" to Imposition
As Unite General Secretaries, we are writing to ask you to support the recommendation and vote "Yes" for industrial action. We can assure you that we have not arrived at this position without careful consideration. However, we do not subscribe to the actions of British Airways in attempting to impose changes to your terms and conditions.
Unite has attempted to resolve the current differences we have with British Airways through negotiation, but despite our efforts, the Company, on 6th October, announced its intentions to enforce changes to the way you work as of 16th November.
These actions are totally unacceptable to Unite and, as such, we have been left with no alternative other than to fully endorse the call for an industrial action ballot in support of our BA Cabin Crew membership.
Please find enclosed a ballot paper which must be completed and returned, by no later than noon 14th December, 2009 in the prepaid envelope provided. Also enclosed is a newsletter from the Unite the Union Cabin Crew Representatives in support of our recommendation.
Please support your Union, vote "YES".
Best wishes
Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley
Joint General Secretaries
At the top of this part of the letter there is big print saying: Vote YES to industrial action.
Gg
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Perhaps the serial number is the same on all the ballot papers, check with a friend, it may be just a printing reference number for the printers or a serial number indicating which ballot it refers to for counitng purposes.
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1. There is a serial number on top of this piece of paper, which is to be sent back to the Scrutineer. How do we know for sure that our vote is secret? Maybe I'm becoming ever more cynical, but I can't help but think the serial number may be linked to my address.
I don't blame you for being cynical, or mistrusting, but at the end of the day, your ballot paper probably needs a serial number, to negate election fraud, and hopefully the independent scrutineers will see you right with regards your anonymity.
Happy voting.