British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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CFC
In the same vein as G W Bush for the I raq war, you're with USA or you're against the USA.
If Unite (BASSA) had consulted it's(?) members on what THE MEMBERS wanted then they would have had a CLEAR mandate on whether to negotiate a solution or ballot for a strike. Judging by the comments on this thread, it seems there has been very little consultation between the Union and it's members.
The dictatorial antics of a union has no place in this world. Yes advise and recommend but not BULLY. The CC are intelligent enough to make THEIR own minds up.
Have you voted for BA's imposition or have you voted against UNITE?
If Unite (BASSA) had consulted it's(?) members on what THE MEMBERS wanted then they would have had a CLEAR mandate on whether to negotiate a solution or ballot for a strike. Judging by the comments on this thread, it seems there has been very little consultation between the Union and it's members.
The dictatorial antics of a union has no place in this world. Yes advise and recommend but not BULLY. The CC are intelligent enough to make THEIR own minds up.
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Horror Film? Comedy?
I was thinking more like a farce!
I am amazed that the propoganda machine at Fort Bassa seems to liken itself and its struggle to war heroes, those the lost their lives fighting for a "just" cause and those persecuted for being "themselves". Perhaps in LALALAND a new age has dawned. A new arian race of over-paid, over rated and under worked old contractors who have thrown their toys out of the pram because they have to "squeeze a few more teabags"!!! To even consider quoting the suffering of the jews etc during the second world war beggars belief jet alone "stealing" an image to portray the upward struggle that Bassa have faced, through their own doing.
Perhaps once the recycling plants have processed the majority of the ballot papers, prepaid envelopes and mountains of literature that comes streaming through the mail, someone might just sit back and say "Imagine if we had asked ALL our members what they wanted?". How scary would that be?
I am amazed that the propoganda machine at Fort Bassa seems to liken itself and its struggle to war heroes, those the lost their lives fighting for a "just" cause and those persecuted for being "themselves". Perhaps in LALALAND a new age has dawned. A new arian race of over-paid, over rated and under worked old contractors who have thrown their toys out of the pram because they have to "squeeze a few more teabags"!!! To even consider quoting the suffering of the jews etc during the second world war beggars belief jet alone "stealing" an image to portray the upward struggle that Bassa have faced, through their own doing.
Perhaps once the recycling plants have processed the majority of the ballot papers, prepaid envelopes and mountains of literature that comes streaming through the mail, someone might just sit back and say "Imagine if we had asked ALL our members what they wanted?". How scary would that be?
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I have no intention of getting personal with anyone, but I do wish to state that those who keep repeating that the "Yes" vote will inevitably prevail sound more and more as if they are repeating it in the vain hope that if they say it enough, it will be true.
It is truly heartening to see so many CC questioning their union and deciding a NO vote is the sensible solution.
Please continue to get the message out to people that they are not alone, and that rancid threats from BASSA stormtroopers against anyone who does not support the BASSA line will not be tolerated. Encourage them to report such threats to the company, so that those that indulge in this odious behaviour get priority when the company next has to shed damaging, dead wood.
VOTE NO AND RESIGN FROM BASSA!
It is truly heartening to see so many CC questioning their union and deciding a NO vote is the sensible solution.
Please continue to get the message out to people that they are not alone, and that rancid threats from BASSA stormtroopers against anyone who does not support the BASSA line will not be tolerated. Encourage them to report such threats to the company, so that those that indulge in this odious behaviour get priority when the company next has to shed damaging, dead wood.
VOTE NO AND RESIGN FROM BASSA!
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I am one of the few that have openly admitted that I will vote NO to strike action but sadly the majority of my colleagues are completely convinced and determined to back the union and vote YES to strike action even though the majority of colleagues have stated that they don t want to strike, contradictory?, Yes, but nevertheless this is the sad reality and personal perception of the facts and general mood out there.
BA could learn one thing or two from the union especially when it comes down to how to brainwash, gain unreserved loyalty, convincing an apathetic audience to blindly follow the few in a disastrous strategy and eventually suffer the consequences.
My guess 70% YES.
BA could learn one thing or two from the union especially when it comes down to how to brainwash, gain unreserved loyalty, convincing an apathetic audience to blindly follow the few in a disastrous strategy and eventually suffer the consequences.
My guess 70% YES.
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completely convinced and determined to back the union and vote YES to strike action even though the majority of colleagues have stated that they don t want to strike, contradictory?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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What exactly is:
?
How can you have an incremental pay freeze? Yet more BASSA gloss and spin?
Is this really any surprise to BASSA and LALA Lady? The HMRC was totally up front with several airlines about the possible tax changes to claw back revenue to give to our poor out of work sub culture. The fact that the expenses system as run for the Cabin Crew is ludicrously outdated has been shown by the abject failure of crew to spend their 'low tax' allotted allowance down route.
Another case of both barrels, line up, shoot, Ouch my feet?
"2.7% pay freeze"
How can you have an incremental pay freeze? Yet more BASSA gloss and spin?
The communication also claims that the Inland Revenue is planning to raise taxation of allowances to 80%.
Another case of both barrels, line up, shoot, Ouch my feet?
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So CFC by your own slightly intimidatory logic, there's only one way to vote because no-one, surely, could be voting for BA. Thing is I don't doubt the likelihood of a yes vote when there's so little information out there. A crew friend of ours when asked said she was sick of it always being the cabin crew they came after. Not, apart from hot towels in WTP, that she could point out any examples. The persecution complex is palpable yet with no hard facts to back it up. So I don't doubt you'll get the yes, I just don't think it's founded on a reasoned consideration of all sides of the argument, indeed it seems to be a badge of honour to not read any of BA's side of the argument which, if reversed, would have crew up in arms bemoaning the fact no one listened to them. Sad and not just a little lop sided.
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I wonder how any crew members are going to have to confront their colleagues? CFC obviously does not realise that the crew car park, the roads around it, and T5 are private property! You can't picket there without BAAs permission, and all you'll get is permission for a small 5 man picket at a restricted spot where you can do no harm. A 5 man picket is hardly going to deter the thousands who turn up for work.
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Do you seriously think that thousands will turn up for work?
How can this be a FORUM - which is defined as "an assembly for open discussion" - when the Moderators keep blocking relevant posts!!!
How can this be a FORUM - which is defined as "an assembly for open discussion" - when the Moderators keep blocking relevant posts!!!
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There'll be more than enough crew to operate a consolidated service. You'd be amazed how many crew volunteer that they won't strike when they're not under the watchful eye of BASSAs stormtroopers. And a big overtime payment comes in handy in the run up to Christmas.
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Confrontation on a picket line can be easily construed as harassment and bullying which BA have a clear policy on. If anyone gets while putting their position across while manning a picket line they are opening themselves up to disciplinary action by BA, who I am sure would be glad to get rid of the troublesome hardliners.
As has been mentioned before this is not the 1970s and the law has moved on, workers who want to threaten and confront may well find themselves clutching a P45 wondering where it all went wrong. Rest assured it will not be the BASSA leadership in this group rather the poor membership who were led astray.
As has been mentioned before this is not the 1970s and the law has moved on, workers who want to threaten and confront may well find themselves clutching a P45 wondering where it all went wrong. Rest assured it will not be the BASSA leadership in this group rather the poor membership who were led astray.
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A crew friend of ours when asked said she was sick of it always being the cabin crew they came after. Not, apart from hot towels in WTP, that she could point out any examples. The persecution complex is palpable yet with no hard facts to back it up.
So, how about challenging the statement. Given that over a period of the past 10 years the Flight Crew have rationalised agreements over pay, terms and conditions. The Dispatchers have become TRM's with a total re-write of terms and conditions. The Engineers contracts, terms and conditions have changed beyond all recognition. The Ground Staff working conditions changed dramatically with the move to T5, as did those of the baggage handlers/loaders. Meet and assist, wheel chairs, security etc. has all been outsourced as have foreign staff. Centralised load control has been formed, Management trimmed back (probably not enough though). All supply contracts have been re-negotiated etc. etc. etc.
So, what have the Cabin Crew given up over the past 10 years or so? Reduction in service levels on the aircraft leading to a reduction in crewing levels? No. Abolishment of the CAT turnaround payment as the CAT lounge no longer exists? No. Rationalisation of the pay levels to hourly rate? No. Abolishment of the 'Lateness credit' which, quite frankly, shouldn't exist in a service industry in the 21st century? No. Rationalisation of block payments into a more accountable hourly rate? No. Abolishment of 1970's Unionistic drastic disruption agreements that embarrass both the company and the customer? No.
The 'No, No, No' line sounds pretty familiar doesn't it.
The list goes on and on and on. The main reason that the Cabin Crew feel that it is always 'them' is that all other departments have given everything already and are fed up of the pedestal the Cabin Crew Union has built for them.
Thousands turn up for work Mr Lurker? Yes, I think so, those who value their job in the middle of a recession. Those who agree to the productivity increase required to let their colleagues take VR. Those who want Part Time, those who don't believe the rhetoric and spin that Unite/Bassa are plying and those who just want to work and get on with the job.
Time will tell. The concencous on SH is that BASSA are cutting their own throats. LH has more CSD's who I am sure will lose the most so will probably be surreptitiously 'leaning' on the shoulders of the undecided with the BASSA slant.
It is finally time for the Cabin Crew to give something back, if not to the company then to all the other departments who have been propping up the CC lack of change in terms and conditions for the past 10 years.
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CFC
Before talking of confrontation, you may like to read this: (taken from: Picketing and picket lines : Directgov - Employment )
The law and picketing
The criminal law applies to pickets as it does to everyone else. It is therefore a criminal offence for pickets to:
You are liable for any breaches of criminal or civil law you commit, or incite (encourage) others to commit, while you are picketing. This includes:
Before talking of confrontation, you may like to read this: (taken from: Picketing and picket lines : Directgov - Employment )
The law and picketing
The criminal law applies to pickets as it does to everyone else. It is therefore a criminal offence for pickets to:
- use threatening or abusive words or behave in a threatening manner towards others passing close to the picket line
- deliberately get in the way of other people or vehicles attempting to enter or leave premises being picketed
- possess offensive weapons
- damage property, either deliberately or recklessly
- cause or threaten to cause a breach of the peace
- obstruct a public highway, such as a road adjacent to the premises being picketed
- prevent, or attempt to prevent, a police officer from carrying out their duties
You are liable for any breaches of criminal or civil law you commit, or incite (encourage) others to commit, while you are picketing. This includes:
- trespassing
- causing a noise nuisance
- the use of threats, libel or slander, and offensive material in leaflets, banners, placards, chants or speeches
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Wobble2plank.
Why do you think that crew do not spend all thier allowances downroute.I'll tell you .Maybe its because their basic salary of £10,999 gross before tax p.a, as a new entrant, which equates to approx.£800 per month after tax, is not enough to cover their monthly living costs .I believe that the allowance system has evolved in order to decrease tax paid by both the company and the worker.If allowances are further reduced by taxation ,or by the company for that matter,how many people will be able to afford to do this job?I know that a lot of my collegues are disillusioned by the hardship of living on the breadline ,and although they love the job are seriously considering leaving with the sole purpose of finding something that pays better.I believe that the average U.K salary is around £24000 p.a ,so where does the crew member with a basic of under half of the average salary ,stand without his/her allowances.
Why do you think that crew do not spend all thier allowances downroute.I'll tell you .Maybe its because their basic salary of £10,999 gross before tax p.a, as a new entrant, which equates to approx.£800 per month after tax, is not enough to cover their monthly living costs .I believe that the allowance system has evolved in order to decrease tax paid by both the company and the worker.If allowances are further reduced by taxation ,or by the company for that matter,how many people will be able to afford to do this job?I know that a lot of my collegues are disillusioned by the hardship of living on the breadline ,and although they love the job are seriously considering leaving with the sole purpose of finding something that pays better.I believe that the average U.K salary is around £24000 p.a ,so where does the crew member with a basic of under half of the average salary ,stand without his/her allowances.
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Tomkins,
I agree with you. However that is not nor was ever the purpose of the differing taxation levels applied to 'expenses' to be used abroad.
The idea of taxing the overseas supplementary pay at a different rate was that it was considered that local taxes would be paid abroad thus the idea of 'double' taxing was brought up and the lower tax rate applied in the UK.
At no point was the supplementary pay ever meant to be retained and used to bolster basic pay in the eyes of HMRC. If that became the case then those expenses would be taxed at standard UK rates.
So, the HMRC then applied a taxation 'test' to a number of Airlines, BA included. The idea being to clarify the spending levels of crews down route in order to assess the taxation rate to be applied.
Oddly enough, as most crew look at their 'additionals' as just that they failed the test and subsequently a new tax level will be introduced.
Once again this entire exercise was quite poorly communicated by BASSA apart from BASSA issuing a list of what expenses were to be spent downroute.
I agree with you. However that is not nor was ever the purpose of the differing taxation levels applied to 'expenses' to be used abroad.
The idea of taxing the overseas supplementary pay at a different rate was that it was considered that local taxes would be paid abroad thus the idea of 'double' taxing was brought up and the lower tax rate applied in the UK.
At no point was the supplementary pay ever meant to be retained and used to bolster basic pay in the eyes of HMRC. If that became the case then those expenses would be taxed at standard UK rates.
So, the HMRC then applied a taxation 'test' to a number of Airlines, BA included. The idea being to clarify the spending levels of crews down route in order to assess the taxation rate to be applied.
Oddly enough, as most crew look at their 'additionals' as just that they failed the test and subsequently a new tax level will be introduced.
Once again this entire exercise was quite poorly communicated by BASSA apart from BASSA issuing a list of what expenses were to be spent downroute.
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Finncapt
I was replying to a thread from Wobble2plank,not trying to start a new thread,and I do consider that anything that may affect c/c allowances has potential for discussion under this thread .You said that if I was not happy with what I earn to go elsewhere.If you re_read the thread you will notice that I mentioned that a lot of my co_workers are finding it very hard to live from their wage packet ,fortunately I was not refering to myself as luckily having had my own business for 20 years before I joined the company I am in a better financial position than most.
I was replying to a thread from Wobble2plank,not trying to start a new thread,and I do consider that anything that may affect c/c allowances has potential for discussion under this thread .You said that if I was not happy with what I earn to go elsewhere.If you re_read the thread you will notice that I mentioned that a lot of my co_workers are finding it very hard to live from their wage packet ,fortunately I was not refering to myself as luckily having had my own business for 20 years before I joined the company I am in a better financial position than most.