British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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I think the basic premise of the law is that courts decide on the the facts of a case only, not how it looks or how it appears. Facts, as presented as evidence, will decide what the judge rules, not how partial evidence can be spun in the court of public opinion. If BA have the goods on UNITE and the case is presented within the statute of limitations, irrespective of the timing of other industrial action the court will decide in BAs favour.
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I would ask how the courts would view a large corporate company deciding more then 4 years after the illegal secondary strike to take the union involved to court just after said union had authorised legal industrial action ?
Now it wouldn't look at all like revenge now would it ?
Now it wouldn't look at all like revenge now would it ?
It would be wise for all to take note of this. You may think BASSA going on strike would be legal because BA is being unfair. The judge will have no interest in "fairness", they will be concerned in seeing that both parties acted legally that will be the only basis for a decision.
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Lets not forget it was not Mr Woodley that called the strike off. The reps voted 6/3 to call it off. The above events caused a storm not only with BASSA reps , but also within the membership. That is why changes were made within BASSA and more power was given to its members. If a strike is called for, its the members that will decide to call it off or not, not BASSA or UNITE, unlike previously.
PPRuNe Person
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Everyone recognises the cabin crew had no involvement in this dispute and as this is a completely separate issue there is no reason for Unite not to authorise a ballot for industrial action should BA impose their moa.
It didn't stop BA using the law to it's advantage and that could happen again.
If a strike is called for, its the members that will decide to call it off or not, not BASSA or UNITE, unlike previously.
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As a individual and like many of my fellow crew I do not have a problem or scared of fighting for what I belive is daylight robbery. Well it wont be the first time I have faced BA in court, or the second.
I would rather lose my job knowing I did everything in my power to fight for what I belive was right, than be in employment knowing that my employer is able to abuse me and my pride.
My personal experince with BA is that they are bullies and will do and say anything to scare you into submission. You have to show them courage and conviction and it is only then that thy will respect you.
Just because BA is your employer, it does not give them the right to do what ever they want. As I have proven on two occasions by taking BA to court.
I would rather lose my job knowing I did everything in my power to fight for what I belive was right, than be in employment knowing that my employer is able to abuse me and my pride.
My personal experince with BA is that they are bullies and will do and say anything to scare you into submission. You have to show them courage and conviction and it is only then that thy will respect you.
Just because BA is your employer, it does not give them the right to do what ever they want. As I have proven on two occasions by taking BA to court.
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Fair enough and I agree with you that BA can tend to the bullying. However the case your colleagues present isn't helped by the hysteria that's whipped up on the anonymous forums. Shouting 100% BASSA isn't an explanation of intention, merely a statement of allegiance. The dramatis personae that anonymity causes to be party to this sorry tale are, I hope, overblown and unrepresentative of reality. Claiming that customer service and BA can't survive without BASSA (I paraphrase from elsewhere) is just plainly crazy.
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Like a number of posters on here, I too believe that sensible negotiations could have avoided the situation we are now in. However that time has passed, talks are now being organised between TW and WW and we will all wait to see what the outcome is.....
IMHO I think we will see the following slight changes to the BA proposal:
1. the disruption agreement will be re-worded to show how and when it will be used, (and again IMHO, will not be as bad as we all think!).
2. EF will keep their 10 days off a month but will work with less crew.
3. WW single nightstops will either be conceded altogether or be on a much smaller number than proposed at the moment, but again will work with less crew and the CSD being part of the service.
This along with the other proposals as they stand.
IMHO I think we will see the following slight changes to the BA proposal:
1. the disruption agreement will be re-worded to show how and when it will be used, (and again IMHO, will not be as bad as we all think!).
2. EF will keep their 10 days off a month but will work with less crew.
3. WW single nightstops will either be conceded altogether or be on a much smaller number than proposed at the moment, but again will work with less crew and the CSD being part of the service.
This along with the other proposals as they stand.
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There is very little room for compromise. IFCE must meet their cost-saving target in full, and that achievement will be subject to a very thorough accounting analysis. If they do not meet their savings - in full - then the deal with Balpa is off, WW is back where he was before all this started, BA will continue to haemorrhage cash and the City's indulgence of WW's plans will disappear. Credit rating will evaporate and the downhill slide will accelerate. WW has to win - he has nowhere to go.
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The filing of the HR1 started a process "If 100 or more redundancies at one of your establishments,
you must notify us at least 90 days before the first
dismissal".
dismissal".
Hence, there could be no dismissals prior to the end of the 90 days. Useful information can be found at Redundancy consultation and notification: guidance - BIS
What date was the HR1 filed?
Join Date: Dec 2000
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About 80 days ago iirc.
Now, what about the gossip on the street that the October rosters will be published with the reduced (24 hr vs 48hr) slips on the longhaul routes?
Comment edited out as it was a distraction. Think about the impact before posting, please, there's enough garden-paths on this thread without creating others. Thank you from the Moderators.
Now, what about the gossip on the street that the October rosters will be published with the reduced (24 hr vs 48hr) slips on the longhaul routes?
Comment edited out as it was a distraction. Think about the impact before posting, please, there's enough garden-paths on this thread without creating others. Thank you from the Moderators.
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I believe the vast majority of BA pilots are sympathetic to the plight of our colleagues.
However we recognise the need to change, and save costs; and keep BA solvent.
I deplore the attitude of any crew who say they would rather see BA fold than reduce their pay by a penny.
And I deplore the ridiculous posturing and name calling by some Bassa reps, when they should be communicating honestly to their members............
And not protecting their 70k pa csd pay.
Crew must change their t&c's. But the question is by what and by how much. Will the negotiating finally begin or will Willie impose change...........
Because he may be left with no choice.
However we recognise the need to change, and save costs; and keep BA solvent.
I deplore the attitude of any crew who say they would rather see BA fold than reduce their pay by a penny.
And I deplore the ridiculous posturing and name calling by some Bassa reps, when they should be communicating honestly to their members............
And not protecting their 70k pa csd pay.
Crew must change their t&c's. But the question is by what and by how much. Will the negotiating finally begin or will Willie impose change...........
Because he may be left with no choice.
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What I find bizarre is the cabin crews strange desire to see the pension fund fold in order to get one up on the pilots. It seems founded in a mix of envy of the pilots and a mistaken belief that the PPF will fully fund their pensions whilst only protecting the pilots up to 30K. Well listen up folks. BAs deficit dwarfs the PPF. If NAPS folds the best anyone can expect is a tiny proportion of their accrued pension rights. You will most certainly not come out of it unscathed. If you think you have enough disposable income to rebuild your pension after you lose your job in BA then go ahead and start that war!
Agreed StraightDave
Judging by some comments heard on "Galley FM" recently there seems to be a misunderstanding of how the PPF works and the 30K figure. Lots of folk do seem to think that if their pension is less than 30K the PPF will fully fund it if BA goes under. As you say it won't.
Makes about as much sense as: "what we need now is a really futile gesture"..( if you're old enough, you'll understand!)
Judging by some comments heard on "Galley FM" recently there seems to be a misunderstanding of how the PPF works and the 30K figure. Lots of folk do seem to think that if their pension is less than 30K the PPF will fully fund it if BA goes under. As you say it won't.
Makes about as much sense as: "what we need now is a really futile gesture"..( if you're old enough, you'll understand!)
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I, like most of my colleagues, are adamant that every area of the company should contribute to ensuring our survival, and I have been disturbed by the lack of knowledge of the situation shown by CC.
However, I have no time for the schadenfreude displayed on this thread.
However, I have no time for the schadenfreude displayed on this thread.
schadenfreude
"malicious joy in the misfortunes of others," 1922, from Ger., lit. "damage-joy," from schaden "damage, harm, injury" (see scathe) + freude, from O.H.G. frewida "joy," from fro "happy," lit. "hopping for joy," from P.Gmc. *frawa- (see frolic).
I had to look that one up.
I'm not sure how much malicious joy is around on this thread - but there are some desperate pleas for lhr CC to be realistic. I don't imagine that any individual CSD on £80k+ will bring BA down, nor will some of those paid below £20k, but the collective attempt at imitating the Yorkshire miners is a concern.
"malicious joy in the misfortunes of others," 1922, from Ger., lit. "damage-joy," from schaden "damage, harm, injury" (see scathe) + freude, from O.H.G. frewida "joy," from fro "happy," lit. "hopping for joy," from P.Gmc. *frawa- (see frolic).
I had to look that one up.
I'm not sure how much malicious joy is around on this thread - but there are some desperate pleas for lhr CC to be realistic. I don't imagine that any individual CSD on £80k+ will bring BA down, nor will some of those paid below £20k, but the collective attempt at imitating the Yorkshire miners is a concern.
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It looks as if in a couple of weeks 2000 crew will be made redundant. Have BASSA discussed methods to prevent this? Is there a will within the community to take reductions in pay + conditions to save jobs? How will the people to be CR be selected?
I am interested to hear what discussions have taken place between the members and their union.
I am interested to hear what discussions have taken place between the members and their union.
Little in the way discussion, TheKabaka, but a lot of grandstanding, footstomping, harumphing, hissy fits, etc. Some have begun to vaguely understand what is looming, but there is a noisy lobby that are doing the 'see/hear no evil' thing (and lots of 'speak evil' too) ad infinitum, as if he who shouts loudest wins.
Difficult to tell how many are actually openly ackowledging the problem. But there are a disturbing number wantonly displaying a naivety that is embarrassing.
Difficult to tell how many are actually openly ackowledging the problem. But there are a disturbing number wantonly displaying a naivety that is embarrassing.
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The 2000 reduction only applies if there is a reduction in crew compliements. As it is well documented, the membership has rejected this. The reduction will only occur if BA drastically reduces the onboard service. This will not happen on LH.
On LH we sometimes struggle on box 3 trips to get the 3hr min rest, how are we going to cope with less crew on trips such as, MRU +BBK these are two of the trips that we struggle with.
On LH we sometimes struggle on box 3 trips to get the 3hr min rest, how are we going to cope with less crew on trips such as, MRU +BBK these are two of the trips that we struggle with.
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I said no,
Why exactly can't BA reduce crew complitments on LHR Long Haul, I think you will find that BA can do what ever it wants and will pick up the pieces after if the crew decide to strike.
Why exactly can't BA reduce crew complitments on LHR Long Haul, I think you will find that BA can do what ever it wants and will pick up the pieces after if the crew decide to strike.