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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

goodonyamate 6th Jan 2022 19:13

The AMA are a farce. They masquerade as Ďdoctors who careí but the reality is they represent their members, who stand to lose that mentioned above as well as MONEY when their elective surgeries are cancelled due to COVID patients. Typical Australian media. No facts, just click bait.

WA are going to get smashed. Depending on what happens here with timing etc. itís feasible that the day WA opens, the rest of Australia locks them out. Now wouldnt that be a laugh.


43Inches 6th Jan 2022 22:41


There is always going to be a whinge from AMA, as doctors and nurses might not be able to take leave when they want it, or may be forced into overtime in 2022. Sound familiar??
More stress on public sector doctors means more leave and join the private sector, directly meaning higher costs to the entire system and another step up in the medicare levy and jumps in private health insurance. Like everything there is a reaction to the actions going on now. Everyone screaming that hospitals need to be better to cater for more patients in preventable pandemics should be the first to open their wallets, or have we not learnt who pays in the end for all of this? No such thing as "free tests" we are all paying for them, no such thing as "free health care" we are paying for it, we just pay a premium via Private insurance or tax surcharges.


The AMA are a farce. They masquerade as ‘doctors who care’ but the reality is they represent their members, who stand to lose that mentioned above as well as MONEY when their elective surgeries are cancelled due to COVID patients.
What's farcical about that statement? The AMA is a voice for doctors, a quasi union, so yes it speaks for it's members. The AMA is not some advocate for the general public, they are a membership association for doctors and healthcare issues. So anything that negatively affects doctors or working conditions they will be against. If you are looking for advice that balances the needs of healthcare workers vs the economy or freedoms, that's what the health departments and ATAGI are for. Ask a doctor (the AMA) whats best for the public, of course you get a biased answer towards making things better for health care workers, like asking AFAP or AIPA what's best for the public, it will be in opening things up, as that's best for aviation and pilots.

If you want real answers to what is best, a panel of specialists that look at everything from the medical aspects to the affects on social interactions to business etc.

Have we got so dumb to not realise that speaking to relevant invested parties always results in answers biased towards that group? Like voting for the Libs in Australia and somehow thinking they wont give big business buddies a big step up every time.

goodonyamate 7th Jan 2022 03:41


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11166428)
More stress on public sector doctors means more leave and join the private sector, directly meaning higher costs to the entire system and another step up in the medicare levy and jumps in private health insurance. Like everything there is a reaction to the actions going on now. Everyone screaming that hospitals need to be better to cater for more patients in preventable pandemics should be the first to open their wallets, or have we not learnt who pays in the end for all of this? No such thing as "free tests" we are all paying for them, no such thing as "free health care" we are paying for it, we just pay a premium via Private insurance or tax surcharges.



What's farcical about that statement? The AMA is a voice for doctors, a quasi union, so yes it speaks for it's members. The AMA is not some advocate for the general public, they are a membership association for doctors and healthcare issues. So anything that negatively affects doctors or working conditions they will be against. If you are looking for advice that balances the needs of healthcare workers vs the economy or freedoms, that's what the health departments and ATAGI are for. Ask a doctor (the AMA) whats best for the public, of course you get a biased answer towards making things better for health care workers, like asking AFAP or AIPA what's best for the public, it will be in opening things up, as that's best for aviation and pilots.

If you want real answers to what is best, a panel of specialists that look at everything from the medical aspects to the affects on social interactions to business etc.

Have we got so dumb to not realise that speaking to relevant invested parties always results in answers biased towards that group? Like voting for the Libs in Australia and somehow thinking they wont give big business buddies a big step up every time.

completely agree 43. My point was the media portray the AMA as some association of dogooders with only the public interest at heart, whereas in actual fact, they are exactly as you describe.

SOPS 7th Jan 2022 03:49


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11166037)
The WA health system has been at breaking point for years, yet life still went on without restrictions.

The number of people on ventilators nation-wide is still not even in triple digits, and we have anywhere from 400,000 to 4,000,000 active cases (the true case count will never be known).

40 odd people die every day in WA. Covid may see this increase to 42 at maximum? just by looking at the current case fatality rate for Australia.

There is always going to be a whinge from AMA, as doctors and nurses might not be able to take leave when they want it, or may be forced into overtime in 2022. Sound familiar??

What exactly is happening over east? And donít tell me case numbers because thatís irrelevant now. The number of ICU patients are actually less now than what they were months ago.

Whatís happening over East? Well letís have a look today. Most elective surgery cancelled in NSW, along with singing dancing. QLD is thinking about delaying return to school dates and asking people to stay inside for the next 6 weeks ( a lock down when your not having a lock down.)

Shops running out of food because there are no staff to deliver it or stock shelves because they are sick or isolating.

Itís all going so well.

Maggie Island 7th Jan 2022 03:53


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11166502)
Whatís happening over East? Well letís have a look today. Most elective surgery cancelled in NSW, along with singing dancing. QLD is thinking about delaying return to school dates and asking people to stay inside for the next 6 weeks ( a lock down when your not having a lock down.)

So why hasnít Emperor McGowan who frequently paraded his ďprotector and defender of the WestĒ act over the last two years - opted to delay the 5 Feb reopening?

-41 7th Jan 2022 05:19


Originally Posted by Maggie Island (Post 11166504)
So why hasnít Emperor McGowan who frequently paraded his ďprotector and defender of the WestĒ act over the last two years - opted to delay the 5 Feb reopening?

Markís busy on holiday. the ANF survey was sent out to family members this week whom work in nursing. Maybe May ?

Chad Gates 7th Jan 2022 07:17


Originally Posted by -41 (Post 11166520)
Markís busy on holiday. the ANF survey was sent out to family members this week whom work in nursing. Maybe May ?

While I wouldn't doubt MM could go back on his word, a survey from the nurses union to union members is not a particularly earth shattering interest piece. I think we know people in the medical fraternity aren't looking forward to it.

Chad Gates 7th Jan 2022 07:49

My best friends wife works for a private health care company. A massive green one, with their own hospitals etcÖÖ.that most in WA would know. She isnít a nurse, a doctor or even work in the hospital, but works in supply. Today they were advised that from Monday, they will be required to work from home indefinitely ( the same thing happened in March 2020) due to the border opening on Feb 5th.

SOPS 7th Jan 2022 09:15

You canít have a healthy economy without healthy people.

Food is starting to become scarce on supermarket shelves.

People are told to work from home. Local cafes, delis, lunch bars suffer.

Wait until itís fuel running short. And Jet A1. This all continues to pan out really, really well.

shortshortz 7th Jan 2022 09:44


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11166588)
You canít have a healthy economy without healthy people.

Food is starting to become scarce on supermarket shelves.

People are told to work from home. Local cafes, delis, lunch bars suffer.

Wait until itís fuel running short. And Jet A1. This all continues to pan out really, really well.


You serious?
It's an inevitable wave that wil peak in three weeks and then we're done. Everyone back to work post infection with immunity - wave dies out. Four weeks to hold out isn't much after two years

Maggie Island 7th Jan 2022 09:48


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11166588)

Food is starting to become scarce on supermarket shelves.

As much as I love to sensationalise the destruction and demise of East Coast cities I think youíve been swallowing too much A Current Affair

43Inches 7th Jan 2022 09:57

Everything that's happening at the moment is more of an annoyance than anything close to a system failure or collapse of civilisation. Yes some businesses will be losing a lot of cash to sick leave and more cautious consumers don't splash cash on the great end of pandemic exhale. Until we have Soviet style bread lines happening I don't think it will do more than apply some mild brakes to what is well preforming Australian economy. I think we are very used to just getting what we want whenever we want for reasonable prices, suddenly when we have to wait for something it must be the end of the world. By the way, anyone else notice milk has gone up about 20% by sneaky stealth. Inflation is what the real enemy will be in this recovery.

SOPS 7th Jan 2022 10:59


Originally Posted by Maggie Island (Post 11166602)
As much as I love to sensationalise the destruction and demise of East Coast cities I think youíve been swallowing too much A Current Affair


Not normally my thing.. but I just checked the ABC

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100739894

Icarus2001 7th Jan 2022 13:00


This all continues to pan out really, really well.
SOPS, again with the chicken little routine, what would you be doing differently? Keep Australia locked down indefinitely?
Take a look at Sweden… no lockdowns….have a look at their infection rate now.

Jester64 7th Jan 2022 14:16


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11166502)
Whatís happening over East? Well letís have a look today. Most elective surgery cancelled in NSW, along with singing dancing. QLD is thinking about delaying return to school dates and asking people to stay inside for the next 6 weeks ( a lock down when your not having a lock down.)

Shops running out of food because there are no staff to deliver it or stock shelves because they are sick or isolating.

Itís all going so well.

Yeah but they have their borders open. When the border opens, along with any new variant, temporary adjustments will need to be made. Transitioning to living with the virus is going to have hiccups. If it means no dancing for a while, or a shortage of toilet paper or home
schooling again then so be it. But it will be temporary and they will come out on the other side better for it.

Xeptu 7th Jan 2022 18:18


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11166732)
Yeah but they have their borders open. When the border opens, along with any new variant, temporary adjustments will need to be made. Transitioning to living with the virus is going to have hiccups. If it means no dancing for a while, or a shortage of toilet paper or home
schooling again then so be it. But it will be temporary and they will come out on the other side better for it.

Pure speculation, how is this any different to lockdowns, when the borders were closed you would never have known there was a pandemic, Today in SA every 5th person is isolating, there are more restrictions and shortages now than there was when the borders were closed and for what exactly.

Jester64 7th Jan 2022 20:43


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11166831)
Pure speculation, how is this any different to lockdowns, when the borders were closed you would never have known there was a pandemic, Today in SA every 5th person is isolating, there are more restrictions and shortages now than there was when the borders were closed and for what exactly.

Nothing speculative about the NSW border being open, which is what Iím referring to.

I agree with the border closed, you would never have known there was a pandemic - except for the fact that you canít enter the state.

You guys are unbelievable. The borders are open in most states and our industry can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but some are still not happy because their little state bubble has been disrupted. I say again - when a state opens their border and goes from covid 0 to living with covid, there will be a transition period with temporary restrictions put in place, but thank christ the border remains open for the sake of our industry.

Xeptu 7th Jan 2022 21:19


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11166873)
Nothing speculative about the NSW border being open, which is what Iím referring to.

I agree with the border closed, you would never have known there was a pandemic - except for the fact that you canít enter the state.

You guys are unbelievable. The borders are open in most states and our industry can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but some are still not happy because their little state bubble has been disrupted. I say again - when a state opens their border and goes from covid 0 to living with covid, there will be a transition period with temporary restrictions put in place, but thank christ the border remains open for the sake of our industry.

The state borders opening is/was inevitable, That in my opinion is necessary. The issue now is what difference has it made and the answer to that question is undeniably worse as it continues so around the rest of the world as well. I don't share your optimism with respect to "temporary" nor do I believe our or anybody else's industry will be any better off, at least for the next couple of years.

Torukmacto 7th Jan 2022 21:34

Sister just diagnosed with omnicron, lives in NSW and is getting on with it , wants borders to remain open . Cousin got it last week , lives in vic and his job involves a lot of interstate travel and he wants nothing closed off . My mother in her mid 70ís 12 months from miraculously surviving stage 4 colon cancer ( immunotherapy) that spread to liver who has nothing to gain from opening borders wants country opened up . She could be excused for wanting borders closed as she a pensioner with some horrible experiences but brave enough to see what needs to happen to get country going plus the mental health issues lockdowns are causing . Omicron wonít take years to disappear . I got respect for these people .

Jester64 7th Jan 2022 21:50


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11166882)
The state borders opening is/was inevitable, That in my opinion is necessary. The issue now is what difference has it made and the answer to that question is undeniably worse as it continues so around the rest of the world as well. I don't share your optimism with respect to "temporary" nor do I believe our or anybody else's industry will be any better off, at least for the next couple of years.

What difference has it made? People are now able to enter most parts of Australia from abroad and from within. That means people can re-connect, freedom of movement is restored for citizens and it also means the recall of many pilots. Itís also meant job offers for me and most of the unemployed pilots I know. To me thatís a sign of the industry being Ďbetter offí.

Thank christ both federal and state governments donít share your view and think that life will be better off with the borders closed. Youíre on the wrong forum to be whinging about the borders being opened. I get how SOPS does because he is happier driving trains then flying planes. Iíd take a guess that you are retired from this industry also?




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