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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

morno 30th Dec 2021 21:20


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 11162613)
Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

Mate it’s a lot harder to be considered a close contact anymore (WA excluded right at this very moment, but your emperor has even agreed with the new definition in principle), so the chances of ending up in 7 (what most of the country are reverting to for the vaccinated) days quarantine is much less.

How much longer would you like to hide under the bed covers for?

Tucknroll 30th Dec 2021 21:52

So NSW are at 21,151 cases today it’s nearly double yesterday’s figure and worse than the worst case predictions. Those are only the people who wanted, or were able to get tested. Our healthcare system is under stress and can’t handle the exponential increase in case numbers, the hospital and lab workers are at breaking point already and we’ve only just begin this wave. Industry bodies are warning of collapse. Testing centres are closing because labs can’t handle the testing load.

Open up by all means, but anyone who is welcoming this flood is insane.

rattman 30th Dec 2021 21:55


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11162800)
So NSW are at 21,151 cases today it’s nearly double yesterday’s figure and worse than the worst case predictions. Those are only the people who wanted, or were able to get tested. Our healthcare system is under stress and can’t handle the exponential increase in case numbers, the hospital and lab workers are at breaking point already and we’ve only just begin this wave. Industry bodies are warning of collapse. Testing centres are closing because labs can’t handle the testing load.

Open up by all means, but anyone who is welcoming this flood is insane.

Dont worry it will get better, there will be less testing so the numbers are going to go down

dr dre 30th Dec 2021 22:56


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11162800)
So NSW are at 21,151 cases today it’s nearly double yesterday’s figure and worse than the worst case predictions. Those are only the people who wanted, or were able to get tested. Our healthcare system is under stress and can’t handle the exponential increase in case numbers, the hospital and lab workers are at breaking point already and we’ve only just begin this wave. Industry bodies are warning of collapse. Testing centres are closing because labs can’t handle the testing load.

Open up by all means, but anyone who is welcoming this flood is insane.

NSW ICU Beds total: 1550

Estimated baseline non Covid ICU beds occupied at any one time: 387

September peak at 50% fully vaxxed: 242 (meaning all occupied ICU beds at 41% of max capacity)

Now: 69 ICU beds occupied, meaning total occupied ICU beds at 29% of capacity.

Now can you please define "breaking point" and "collapse" because that to me seems to be very far away from "collapse".

This is backed up by Prof Peter Collignon (he says NSW can get up to 2000 ICU beds if needed):

Pandemic is now 'endemic' on Australia's east coast - ABC PM

dr dre 30th Dec 2021 23:04


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 11162613)
I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

I'm in WA and not a single person I've spoken to has said that. I've had medical professionals who have told me they're desperate to start traveling again. And Police sick of manning border checkpoints as glorified customs and wanting to get back on the street and hunt real crooks.

Poll also showing 2/3rds of West Aussies want to open Feb 5 or sooner so that's the majority opinion:

WA border: West Aussies keen to reopen on February 5 - if not sooner

Even McGowan yesterday was talking tougher internal restrictions in masks and vaccine passports because of surging cases post Feb 5 reopening, not one hint dropped that the border opening would be cancelled.


Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.
McGowan also confirmed WA would move to the looser definition of close contact and shorter isolation periods after the opening as cases increase.

Chad Gates 31st Dec 2021 00:00


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 11162613)
Really? Your mates must be very blessed, that they can afford to be put into isolation for 14 days with no income, perhaps repeatedly, and with no compensation. Because the problem now isn't the disease, it is the fact that even the triple vaxxed are going to be forced out of the workforce if they are within cooee of a coughing backpacker.

I haven't heard a single person who wants the borders open and I'm including medical professionals and police who are going to have to somehow manage this mess while essential staff are under house arrest.

When the big end of town realise they won't be able to get their FIFO guys to work because there are no airline crew, no refuellers, no screeners, then maybe he will sit up and realise what he is doing - opening up on 5 February is madness.

Yes, really. Most of them, but not all, are in the mining industry in some capacity. One is the divisional director of a massive, and I mean massive, engineering company in Perth, and he is the most adamant it’s time to move on. They are not frightened at all. And I would also add, he was by far (irritatingly so) the biggest supported of the border policies 12 months ago. Things have moved on. If you are scared, live in your bedroom, it’s no skin off my nose.
More than ever I feel heartened by what I’m hearing in the community. Your friends in the medical fraternity seem to be the only group against it. I guess that’s because it will it increase their workload. That sucks, but that’s life.

dr dre 31st Dec 2021 00:11


Originally Posted by Chad Gates (Post 11162836)
\
More than ever I feel heartened by what I’m hearing in the community. Your friends in the medical fraternity seem to be the only group against it. I guess that’s because it will it increase their workload. That sucks, but that’s life.

Actually groups like the AMA are against it because it'll decrease their workload, not increase it. The more hospital beds are filled up with Covid patients mean the less money made from elective surgeries, especially in the private sector. That's where the cash is earned, not monitoring patients in an ICU, mostly done by a nurse. It's pure self interest for these doctors, so watch out for a lot of these statements by groups like the AMA because it's purely their financial motivations at play, not any concern for public health. They are the doctor's union after all.

To show you how little the AMA is "concerned" about public health they also opposed the use of pharmacists in administering Covid vaccines, all vaccines in fact. That would mean less business for GP clinics, and if they had gotten their way our vaccine rollout would've been further delayed and more people probably would have died.

Jester64 31st Dec 2021 00:32


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11162478)
Except… when a whole lot of people are sick.. because of these “wonderful” new laws … who will be on the aircraft and going on holidays ?

By ‘a whole lot’, do you mean the 0.1% of REPORTED infections that experience anything other than mild or no symptoms?

Chronic Snoozer 31st Dec 2021 02:08


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11162825)
I'm in WA and not a single person I've spoken to has said that.

To be clear, how many people is that?


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11162825)
IPoll also showing 2/3rds of West Aussies want to open Feb 5 or sooner so that's the majority opinion:

WA border: West Aussies keen to reopen on February 5 - if not sooner

Poll published on 22nd Dec, prior to the shenanigans with close contact definitions, RAT shortages, PCR test delays and the like and when the 7 day rolling average of cases was likely much less than today. Do the survey today and see what the result is. I love these scientific surveys - 811 people, not exactly ABS standard is it? And from marketers.

Credit where credit is due, the decision to set Feb 5 as the opening date, although perhaps maligned, has proven to be prudent.

PoppaJo 31st Dec 2021 09:38

I still can’t believe we are talking about borders, with vaccine rates the envy of the world.

We need to start talking out how we are about to very soon, exit the pandemic, with the opportunity to be the first in the world. No Social distancing, No PCRs, no masks, No QR. If you feel like your about to drop dead, you go to the Emergency. If you feel like you have a cold, you stay at home and burn sick leave.

Boosters done by May. We need to spend the May to July quarter transitioning away, and August onwards we need to drop every, single, bloody thing.





43Inches 31st Dec 2021 09:54


By ‘a whole lot’, do you mean the 0.1% of REPORTED infections that experience anything other than mild or no symptoms?
Not sure what world you live in but flight crew can't operate with a cold let alone covid, so if crew test positive for covid they must ground themselves as required by their medical issue and if it lasts more than 7 days a DAME has to re-certify them before they can fly again. That means if the infections do spread significantly, as we have already seen numerous cancellations will occur from crew shortages. This will apply to a large number of industries, this has already occurred in the UK, USA and Europe. In the US and UK hospital staff and doctors are now reluctant to come in on overtime as they are over worked and tired causing a lot of staffing issues. There is a big difference between being a possible contact and isolating from work for a day or so until tested and testing positive and having to wait out until negative test, which could be however long. I cant see any world where you would be allowed to operate as flight crew or even travel while knowingly carrying a contagious virus.

Thirsty 31st Dec 2021 10:27


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11162983)
I still can’t believe we are talking about borders, with vaccine rates the envy of the world.

We need to start talking out how we are about to very soon, exit the pandemic, with the opportunity to be the first in the world. No Social distancing, No PCRs, no masks, No QR. If you feel like your about to drop dead, you go to the Emergency. If you feel like you have a cold, you stay at home and burn sick leave.

Boosters done by May. We need to spend the May to July quarter transitioning away, and August onwards we need to drop every, single, bloody thing.

Given the response and changes in the last week in official circles, I would venture the pandemic is officially now over in Australia. Finished. Done. Milestones achieved.
Those that were going to be vaccinated have been done so. Those that have successfully avoided vaccination - you are on your own. They don't care any more. Officialdom have been promised a total cure by the vaccine companies last year, they pushed the vaccines while minimising spread, and along comes Omicron and makes the whole exercise rather obsolete. No more booster shots. No more certificates. No more QR codes. No more contact tracing. No more isolation. No more lockdowns. No more masks. Just get the awful four day weak flu with horrid symptoms, get over it, and life goes on! Once we all have the antibodies (naturally, or vaccine induced), the pandemic is over. The virus will run out of hosts to infect, and will die a swift death. Those that will die from it, tough luck. We will keep some hospital beds put aside for you, but we have lost interest.
Just in time for second anniversary.
Other nations are on different timescales on the very same pattern. Their bell curve is different shaped, and they are at different phases of it. Omicron rages and dominates, pushing out all others.

Is that the way you see it proceeding in the New Year?

Jester64 31st Dec 2021 11:20


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11162991)
Not sure what world you live in but flight crew can't operate with a cold let alone covid, so if crew test positive for covid they must ground themselves as required by their medical issue and if it lasts more than 7 days a DAME has to re-certify them before they can fly again. That means if the infections do spread significantly, as we have already seen numerous cancellations will occur from crew shortages. This will apply to a large number of industries, this has already occurred in the UK, USA and Europe. In the US and UK hospital staff and doctors are now reluctant to come in on overtime as they are over worked and tired causing a lot of staffing issues. There is a big difference between being a possible contact and isolating from work for a day or so until tested and testing positive and having to wait out until negative test, which could be however long. I cant see any world where you would be allowed to operate as flight crew or even travel while knowingly carrying a contagious virus.

My comment was in response to a previous comment of “a whole lotta people gonna get sick”, not ‘a whole lotta crew gonna get infected’.

t_cas 1st Jan 2022 05:37

Not lies. Just “bullshit”.
 
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...82f69f3ddc3c32

Torukmacto 1st Jan 2022 06:24

If we ever get rid of the 3 tier Australian system and it’s the states that go their demise will be traced back to this pandemic .

Ladloy 1st Jan 2022 06:35


Originally Posted by t_cas (Post 11163361)

If we did this 6 months ago we would have a much higher death rate. Hildebrand is a first class flog.

AerialPerspective 1st Jan 2022 13:30


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11163372)
If we did this 6 months ago we would have a much higher death rate. Hildebrand is a first class flog.

Agreed. Stating prior to an interview on Studio 10 with Rosie Batty, he said that "women too scared to report child abuse have no excuse".

Of course, as is usual with his species, once they get called out for making a sh-tty comment, they come out and apologise and society moves on. Well, it shouldn't. He opened his mouth, he formed the words in his head, then he spoke them. He's a sensationalist and was looking for a bite. Apologising is just saying "I shouldn't have said it because now I'm worried I'll get sacked". There's no remorse at all.

I put him in the same category as that troglodyte that was running the ACL - who said "If SSM becomes law, it will lead to the sort of things that happened in Germany in 1933".

One thing I despise about society these days is that people who make disgusting comments like that, while entitled to their opinion, should not be allowed to just apologise and move on. The apology is just BS, the comment was made while fully conscious and in possession of what is presumably a reasonably functioning brain. Happily in the latter case, he left ACL and launched a political career which died before it started. Good. Wish someone would end Hilderbrand's career. Who ARE these people anyway?? What qualification of life do they have to pontificate to others??

Not the first time this moron has opened his mouth and spewed utter crap.

minigundiplomat 1st Jan 2022 16:11

From first hand experience Omicron is a bad cold. Time to restart the world

CaptCloudbuster 1st Jan 2022 21:45


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11163558)
From first hand experience Omicron is a bad cold. Time to restart the world

Based on a sample size of one:rolleyes:

Icarus2001 1st Jan 2022 22:12

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2...till-dangerous

https://www.health.gov.au/health-ale...riants/omicron

Despite the media frothing at the mouth with the arrival of Omicron, forecasting the end of life as we know it, there has been plenty of studies now that show Omicron is less virulent but more easily transmissbale.

The former deputy CHO for Australia spoke about it early on and suggested it be allowed to spread as the dominant strain as it is more mild than Delta.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...3c7b431eca49da




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