Originally Posted by Agent_86
(Post 11096979)
633 in SYD today....
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
(Post 11096960)
Good to see QANTAS has a plan.
I trust that the silent minority will accept the will of those who engaged. "....a survey sent to 22,000 people to seek their views on vaccination. The 12,000 responses received..." |
Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 11096977)
I don't have any issue with the vaccine, but that's only because I'm old and it probably isn't going to matter either way. I'm more concerned about the virus itself and it's impact upon my grandchildren. We haven't really been introduced to it yet, only the corona its trojan horse. We don't know anything about it other than it's very long and complex. That surely has to mean lots of capabilities. It really does have us by the short and curlies, so I don't think we should be judging anyone for anything just yet.
Yes, who knows the effects of home schooling and an already retarded Australian education system, when your grandkids have to compete with the world that saw COVID in a different light? They'll inherit debt and higher taxes too and have seen politicians cowering to extract voter support instead of a genuine way out of COVID. If our COVID response was genuinely about our children and their futures, we would have had a better response from all. |
Yes, who knows the effects of home schooling and an already retarded Australian education system, when your grandkids have to compete with the world that saw COVID in a different light? They'll inherit debt and higher taxes too and have seen politicians cowering to extract voter support instead of a genuine way out of COVID. If our COVID response was genuinely about our children and their futures, we would have had a better response from all. Australia $250 billion AUD in direct economic stimulus, no significant more debt due in forward estimates(due to stimulus that is). That's about $8000 USD per capita. Pretty clear who's kids will deal with more debt. Those figures don't even factor in direct covid costs such as loss of economic activity and the general cost of health care issues spread out over time, especially for long covid. The UK meanwhile, is going to be screwed paying for the NHS for the next decade at least, unless they unwind some benefits. Who has the best balance of trade of those 3 to pay off the debt it incurs? |
43Inc - The US is coming out of this economically - Everything is open--- Aus - well cranking up the debt- A billion per week? I don''t know the numbers but that per capita spread you mentioned is gonna close pretty quickly.
(Oh and for my eyes can you every time you type "dieing" can you please change it to "dying") |
We have a completely different economy to the USA. Comparing the two is borderline irrelevant. We have different challenges and vulnerabilities going ahead. How responsible you think the COVID fiscal response is for this country, is dependant upon your view of how quickly these challenges and vulnerabilities can present. Soft, selfish and lacking national cohesion. Not great for future generations.
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Everything is open--- Aus - well cranking up the debt- A billion per week? I don''t know the numbers but that per capita spread you mentioned is gonna close pretty quickly. Britain opened and growth has since stalled slightly due to similar reasons. A big drag on the UK economy is isolation of affected workers not being able to be productive. You still can't work while infected, which means all those positive cases, plus their families and close contacts are non productive, effectively like a lockdown. We have a completely different economy to the USA. Comparing the two is borderline irrelevant. We have different challenges and vulnerabilities going ahead. How responsible you think the COVID fiscal response is for this country, is dependant upon your view of how quickly these challenges and vulnerabilities can present. Soft, selfish and lacking national cohesion. Not great for future generations. |
Dont worry about the economy guys, the Chinese will bail us out! But hey, ScoMo signed a deal to sell Tim Tams and Vegemite to the UK. |
This is from Chris Uhlmann - The Sydney Morning Herald -
You might call it a form of Stockholm syndrome, except that Sweden chose another path. Here, of course, the cognoscenti decried it as a failure because over 14,000 died of the disease. But how are we defining success? In worldwide mortality charts Sweden does no worse than some nations that enforced swingeing restrictions, while our pursuit of the fool’s errand of COVID Zero has seen us level every liberty, destroy educations and livelihoods and shut ourselves off from the world. As noted here before, it took us 230 years, but we finally managed to perfect the prison colony. We have even invented a perverse new “Covese” lexicon where “freedoms” are not rights, but gifts bestowed by premiers and where the police complain of “illegal family gatherings”. |
Speaking of China, given apparently their vaccine doesn't work all that well. Their containment and eradication policy must work pretty well since they are doing the best by far than anyone else in the world.
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2f5d394f59.png
Swedish GDP growth rate. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5ad30e19f4.png Australian GDP growth. So Sweden sacrificed 14,000 people to be about the same as Australia, sounds like a good trade :bored:. They have also spent Billions in Covid stimulus, so not much different in that respect either. |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11097028)
So Sweden sacrificed 14,000 people to be about the same as Australia, sounds like a good trade :bored:.
Originally Posted by 43I
They have also spent Billions in Covid stimulus, so not much different in that respect either.
14,000 (their deaths) * 2.5 (our pop over theirs) = 35,000 Aussie deaths. 35,000 * 5.0M AUD = $175B AUD in 'statistical lives lost', without considering anything else. Still seems like a pretty good trade to me...:mad: |
Originally Posted by Xeptu
(Post 11097025)
Speaking of China, given apparently their vaccine doesn't work all that well. Their containment and eradication policy must work pretty well since they are doing the best by far than anyone else in the world.
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https://www.berlin.de/corona/en/measures/
That is the current list of restrictions in Berlin, a lot of activities such as going to a restaurant, require either proof of vaccination or proof of negative covid test. Germany lost 90,000 to the virus, if you applied Swedens death rate to Germany they would have lost 125,000. But that's not even a fair comparison as Germanys population density is way higher than Swedens by a significant factor and it's smack bang in teh middle of the EU meaning lots of traffic through it. At a guess you could double that 125,000 for Germany quite easily in adjusting for density had they let it rip. https://www.government.se/articles/2...-restrictions/ BTW, if Sweden was so open why are they lifting restrictions progressively? And here they are; https://www.krisinformation.se/en/ha...ecommendations |
But nobody has been factoring death data due to lockdown restrictions. Also, people not being able to visit a hospital due to 'other' health conditions. So mostly, the data is flawed. The only real argument is that we are sacrificing rights during the lockdown, and how far do you go. |
I agree it's all part and parcel, the stats are just that, numbers assigned to a chart. Now suicide rate might be stable but yeah there might be 50% are due to lockdown. The key really is, how much does locking down cost vs staying open, how many would suicide because they lose a family member to covid and feel lost and alone, what mental health effects would that have on the survivors if they knew they could have done more?. How many will blame themselves for bringing covid into their family and causing the death of a loved one.
It's not as though you let everyone die and suddenly everyone is going to be happy, pretty sure those affected will have grief, regret and anger. So the mental health issue applies to both cases of lockdown or not. So far all indicators are it saves lives and in the long run you are no worse off than other countries economically that have had to deal with covid. Yes we sacrifice active freedoms, but, part of the community in affected countries cant leave home due to fear. Which is better? time might give us an answer, or maybe not... |
Originally Posted by Blackout
(Post 11097046)
43Logic,
Did you take into account people not being able to access normal medical treatment, or the people that should off received normal medical treatment but were too scared of covid to get the medical treatment? The rest I agree with. |
If you know anyone from WA that is currently in NSW and they want to
go home.. tell them to leave today. I am pretty sure that the border will be shut to everyone from NSW as from tomorrow. No exceptions. Nil, nada, no way. And unless The Golden Girl can get the cases down, it could remain like that for the rest of the year. I don’t want to know how you think this is a good/ bad/ terrible idea. I’m just warning people what I am pretty sure is about to happen. |
Originally Posted by Blackout
(Post 11097052)
Turban,
Like I said, get rid of the testing and the lockdowns and lets see how bad this 'virus' really is. Every day, I watch the media conferences. The fear campaign is incredible. |
Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 11097054)
If you know anyone from WA that is currently in NSW and they want to
go home.. tell them to leave today. I am pretty sure that the border will be shut to everyone from NSW as from tomorrow. No exceptions. Nil, nada, no way. And unless The Golden Girl can get the cases down, it could remain like that for the rest of the year. I don’t want to know how you think this is a good/ bad/ terrible idea. I’m just warning people what I am pretty sure is about to happen. |
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