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43Inches 28th Jul 2021 00:29


You guys need some perspective, how many people have died this year from flu, diabetes, car crashes, suicides, allergies?
Last years flu season was predicted to hit more than 300,000 cases. Due to Covid restrictions having the same effect on Flu there was only 20,000 cases with 36 confirmed deaths. Compare that to 800 odd deaths from Covid in the same period.

Diabetes is not a virus, its either hereditary or lifestyle based.

Car Crashes are not a virus and have various causes, most of which are preventable. Like those that deny Covid there are stupid drivers that ignore the rules and safety advice and die needlessly.

Suicides are stable, that is the same rate as they were before Covid, and while related to mental health there's a multitude of other complicated circumstance that lead to this.

Allergies, well who knows, I would say the precautions for Covid worked like the Flu and reduced the amount of severe allergic reactions, again this is managed by the individual and regulation of food handling and warning labels. Allergies is probably one of the few that could be categories as something that another person could inflict on you unknowingly, but it will not spread like wildfire to everyone around you, so again not comparable.

ScepticalOptomist 28th Jul 2021 00:51


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11085573)
Would love some examples because this argument doesn't hold water.

Ladloy, look up any site that has stats on deaths for the world. It’s all available, for free. Take note of the category of “influenza / pneumonia / respiratory illnesses” and you’ll be surprised at how many die every day. Now compare that to the deaths (globally) due to COVID.

4 million or so dead in 16 odd months is a large number until it’s compared to the vast numbers dying every day “without COVID”.

ScepticalOptomist 28th Jul 2021 00:54


Originally Posted by mattyj (Post 11085917)
even one death is one too many..we can’t rest until everyone lives forever

Haha, that’d be great! We’d all be broke, but it’s be worth it!!

:-)

43Inches 28th Jul 2021 01:13


Ladloy, look up any site that has stats on deaths for the world. It’s all available, for free. Take note of the category of “influenza / pneumonia / respiratory illnesses” and you’ll be surprised at how many die every day. Now compare that to the deaths (globally) due to COVID.
If you focus the stats on countries that have handled covid poorly, like the USA, 2019 flu season killed 20,000. 2020 Covid season killed 500,000, flu is much less deadly.

Pneumonia is not a virus, its a condition of the lungs, so Covid also causes pneumonia as does the flu, legionaires, etc. The category of flu being put with pneumonia and other respiratory illnesses is that it affects the lower respiratory tract.

MickG0105 28th Jul 2021 01:20


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11085920)
Well there it is, twelve people. How many were close to death from other causes?


Couldn't tell you for sure. There was one in their 90s, eight in their 80s, and one each in their 70s, 50s and 30s.

Just by the bye, is this "woulda died anyway" discount approach going to be a thing moving forward? We could shave 12.5 percent off the actual road toll numbers by ignoring the 75 years old and overs killed in road accidents. Deaths by suicide would fall by around 7.5 percent if you just took out all the over 75s on the basis that they were on their way out anyway. Roger Dean could probably get his 11 counts of murder knocked down to simple arson.



Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11085920)
You guys need some perspective, how many people have died this year from flu, diabetes, car crashes, suicides, allergies?


Flu - zero, according to last week's Influenza Surveillance Report.

Diabetes - is that died from or died with? That seems to be a popular distinction in some circles these days. Died from, as in diabetes being the underlying cause of death, probably around 2,800 based on historical numbers.

Car crashes - 562 or so, but only about 490 if you don't count the 75s and older.

Suicides - probably around 1,900 based on historical data, but with your "One foot in the grave" discount only around 1,760.

Allergies - as in acute allergic reactions (anaphylaxis), probably only 14 or 15 based on historical information.



Chronic Snoozer 28th Jul 2021 01:46


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11085920)
You guys need some perspective, how many people have died this year from flu, diabetes, car crashes, suicides, allergies?
This is a massive overreaction by the media and consequently the states.



Death from car crashes has long been seen as unacceptable hence the billions spent on ABS, airbags and crash worthiness testing and technology not to mention roads, signage and regulation/enforcement. Fortunately, this investment has been spread over time and recouped by sales, taxes and the opportunity cost of not having hospitals filled with car crash victims and the accompanying loss of productivity. The pandemic is similar yet it needs to be addressed over a much shorter timeframe and the costs are upfront and visible.

MickG0105 28th Jul 2021 01:46


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11085936)
4 million or so dead in 16 odd months is a large number until it’s compared to the vast numbers dying every day “without COVID”.

The 4 million or so dead is calculated using less than 425,000 deaths for India. Do you think that the Indian death toll numbers are correct?

Leaving that aside for the time being, accepting that it's 4.2 million deaths over 16 months or so that's an unweighted annual figure of 3.15 million deaths. To see that sort of increase in annual global deaths would normally take about half a decade, five years.


Xeptu 28th Jul 2021 01:51

I think you're onto something here Mick, Why 75 though, anyone over 60 is a bonafide card carrying senior citizen, so lets not count any of those, then if we seasonally adjust the remaining figures, we come up with very small numbers all round. All we'll need is just a trauma centre instead of an emergency department and a children's hospital. I think we should get Barny onto this.

MickG0105 28th Jul 2021 01:52


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11085948)
I think you're onto something here Mick, Why 75 though, anyone over 60 is a bonafide card carrying senior citizen, ...

Cutting a bit close to the bone there, champ.

Xeptu 28th Jul 2021 01:56


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11085949)
Cutting a bit close to the bone there, champ.

Might as well go whole hog.

Hey Foxster, are you OK, you're looking a bit distressed there mate, I had one of those wobbly moments myself a way back, It'll pass ok.

SOPS 28th Jul 2021 02:06

In other news .. an update of our Ballina couple. We have a name and a face, and it appears the Flight Attendant is not cooperating with Police and has lawyered up.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...each/100325698

Foxxster 28th Jul 2021 02:28


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11085955)
In other news .. an update of our Ballina couple. We have a name and a face, and it appears the Flight Attendant is not cooperating with Police and has lawyered up.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...each/100325698

it’s worse than that. This is the flight attendant

Malynda Gray, 36, who also goes by Mel Waterhouse, has been identified as the woman who moved around in south-east Queensland for a week after experiencing Covid symptoms,

In 2017 Ms Gray appeared in news reports when she had claimed to have dated Ricky Maddison, who was responsible for the death of Queensland policeman Brett Forte after a shoot-out in May 2017.
Maddison fired two full magazines at police cars during a pursuit from Toowoomba to the Lockyer Valley, killing Officer Forte. He was later shot dead by police after a 20-hour siege.

Gray was described by media outlets at the time of his death as an ex-girlfriend of Maddison's.

'We were together for a while and in that time he was the most caring person I knew,' she said.

'I don't believe the allegations against him from my loving experiences with him. He used to make me laugh all the time. He was an amazing, caring person.'

MickG0105 28th Jul 2021 02:36


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11085955)
In other news .. an update of our Ballina couple. We have a name and a face, and it appears the Flight Attendant is not cooperating with Police and has lawyered up.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...each/100325698


Flight attendant behind Covid-19 scare dated Brett Forte’s killer Ricky Maddison

The identities of a man and woman behind Queensland’s latest Covid-19 scare have been revealed, as a video emerged of the Sydney escapee doing … well, we’re not all that sure.

Kate Kyriacou, et al
Courier-Mail
July 28, 2021 - 11:59AM

THE flight attendant at the centre of Queensland’s Covid-19 scare once claimed to have dated cop killer Ricky Maddison, describing him as “the most caring person I know”.

Ms Gray was on Tuesday fined $4000 for failing to comply with a border direction after driving Covid-positive Mr Thompson into Queensland on July 14 – resulting in her contracting the virus herself.

Mr Thompson, 26, was not supposed to have left Sydney, but f lew to Ballina where he met Ms Gray, who drove him to Tugun and Brisbane.

At the time, Mr Thompson had been given a negative test result from a Sydney laboratory, but was later told the result was wrong, which he is alleged to have kept hidden from Queensland authorities.

Ms Gray, who works for Qantaslink as a flight attendant, tested positive for coronavirus on July 22, but had felt unwell for about a week.

Queensland Health on Thursday night added an additional contact tracing location at Mermaid Waters on the Gold Coast. Black Swan Coffee, Shop 8 Q Super Centre at Mermaid Waters is considered to be a close contact site between 1.40pm and 2pm on Friday, July 23.

Queensland Health, which at first believed her infection was a mystery case, later Queensland Health was made aware of his Covid status only after he was identified as a close contact of Ms Gray and put into hotel quarantine.

It is understood he was in hotel quarantine for about 24 hours while knowingly infectious before Queensland Health got the results of its own test.

On Wednesday, police gave Mr Thompson three infringement notices, alleging he opened the door of his room and “verbally abused” staff – without a mask – after being told he had the virus.

“It is alleged after warnings, and with full knowledge of his positive Covid-19 delta strain diagnosis, he continued to open his door while not wearing a face mask,” police said in a statement.

Mr Thompson has been fined $4000 for failing to comply with a border direction, $4000 for failing to comply with a Covid-19 direction by providing untrue information.

Ms Gray spoke out about her past relationship with Maddison in 2017 when he was killed after a 20-hour siege.

Maddison lured police into an ambush near Gatton and opened fire with a machine gun, killing Senior Constable Brett Forte.

It is understood Ms Gray was seeing Maddison seven years earlier. “We were together for a while and in that time he was the most caring person I knew,” she said in 2017.

“I don’t believe the allegations against him from my loving experiences with him. He used to make me laugh all the time. He was an amazing, caring person.”
Ms Gray, who works for Qantaslink as a flight attendant ...

Probably a safe bet to make that past tense.

DirectAnywhere 28th Jul 2021 02:46


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11085955)
In other news .. an update of our Ballina couple. We have a name and a face, and it appears the Flight Attendant is not cooperating with Police and has lawyered up.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-...each/100325698

Pretty sure Queensland Police and QANTAS can afford better lawyers. Should be fun to watch.

rattman 28th Jul 2021 03:24


Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere (Post 11085963)
Pretty sure Queensland Police and QANTAS can afford better lawyers. Should be fun to watch.

Whats that qantas lawyer got to do with it

PoppaJo 28th Jul 2021 03:39

The only cost that Qantas will wear is paying some payroll person to hit the terminate button.

DirectAnywhere 28th Jul 2021 03:42


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11085965)
Whats that qantas lawyer got to do with it

Probably nothing if she accepts her seemingly inevitable fate. Maybe something. Dunno. It was intended to be tongue in cheek and perhaps inject a moment of levity into an otherwise dire situation. I found it kind of funny that she's "lawyering up". It would seem from the outside to be a waste of both time and $$.

MickG0105 28th Jul 2021 04:58


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11085980)
Even in the worst first world jurisdictions that have seen large numbers of deaths the stats are pointing to a resounding “no”.

What stats would they be?


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11085980)
Our individual lives, calculated for risk, have historically been worth orders of magnitude less. ...

What data supports your contention that lives, calculated for risk, have historically been worth orders of magnitude less?

An estimate of the value of statistical life that has been discussed here is around $5 million. I've estimated that we've probably spent somewhere between 2 - 3 times that per life notionally saved. A factor of two or three is at least 30 times less than 'orders of magnitude'.

Torukmacto 28th Jul 2021 05:00

Lock down was only meant to slow it down while vaccinations took place and protect our health system . Fear and misinformation is out of control . Frustrating to see Australians vaccination rate so low . Spending days discussing a single case , complaining about protestors or not stopping all inbound international arrivals . This thing is here to stay . Time to acknowledge the problem and the best solution and get vaccinated.

Turnleft080 28th Jul 2021 05:09

The last couple of deaths sadly have been in their 80s and 90s. News wise, that's it. However, if it's a 30yo sadly then the government
will rant on "see it's just not an old persons disease". Main stream media will rant on it's not an oldies disease as well. That must be emphasised.
It's part of public health policy, that faceless mob, to make sure your doubly scared as a Freddy Krueger movie. Whatever it takes to crush this nasty
beast, this killing machine into the ground. Surprised they haven't brought back the grim reaper from the dead. That 30sec Poltergeist 4 trailer
never cut the mastard


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