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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

SOPS 26th Jul 2021 06:05

NT government is now telling any Territorian that is currently in NSW to come home now. I can hear a full border closure coming.

In other news, I see that some experts are saying the Sydney lockdown might have to go on until Christmas. When are people going to realise that.. stay at home… means STAY AT HOME!!!

SHVC 26th Jul 2021 06:11

PM is doing no favors either he said on the 23rd that lockdowns will be the primary means of controlling covid even with high vaccination rates. Premiers May control the states, he still controls the international border.

Foxxster 26th Jul 2021 06:13


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11085017)
PM is doing no favors either he said on the 23rd that lockdowns will be the primary means of controlling covid even with high vaccination rates. Premiers May control the states, he still controls the international border.

there should be NO measures when we have high vaccination rates. NONE.

Dannyboy39 26th Jul 2021 06:44


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11084587)
Can someone call the PM just get him to stop talking. I am confused now, I thought getting the population vaccinated would abate the need for lockdowns, Scott Morrison appears to say otherwise.
Vaccines ‘not a substitute for a lockdown’: PM

When you allow governments to see that semi-authoritarian measures will be accepted by the people, why would they stop? Even here in the UK with 70% of the adult population now fully vaccinated and 88% of the adult population having at least one dose, a considerable section of the scientific community wanting perpetual restrictions. One prominent group not wanting to open schools in March and then still have restrictions until EVERYONE including kids are vaccinated.

I'm 100% pro vaccine, but you have to give the population at large the carrot. Because there will be the need for boosters. If a vaccine doesn't equal reopening, people will not come out to get it.

KRviator 26th Jul 2021 06:52


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11085018)
there should be NO measures when we have high vaccination rates. NONE.

Except if you consider the results of the UK, with current vaccination percentages, cases & deaths, and apply them to Australia you'll get:
UK Figures - Source
88% have had their first dose
70% have had their second dose
29,000 people tested positive today and;
28 people died

The "equivalent" Australian figures:
11,000 new cases and;
10 deaths.

So, given previous statements and actions by respective Governments in Australia - of all persuasions - does anyone honestly thing that (no restrictions) will occur? If you do, I've got a bridge with an awesome view I can sell you cheap...

Foxxster 26th Jul 2021 06:54

U might also look at the uk for the possible or likely future of international travel, regarding testing, and what happens if you test positive while away, the cost, the traffic light system which like our borders can change or lockdown overnight. And the queues on arrival due to various reasons like their track and trace app. Don’t think the road back to international travel is going to be quick.

Foxxster 26th Jul 2021 06:58


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11085032)
Except if you consider the results of the UK, with current vaccination percentages, cases & deaths, and apply them to Australia you'll get:
UK Figures - Source
88% have had their first dose
70% have had their second dose
29,000 people tested positive today and;
28 people died

The "equivalent" Australian figures:
11,000 new cases and;
10 deaths.

So, given previous statements and actions by respective Governments in Australia - of all persuasions - does anyone honestly thing that (no restrictions) will occur? If you do, I've got a bridge with an awesome view I can sell you cheap...


what will happen and what SHOULD happen are often not the same.

but if we get to those rates and Gladys brings in another lockdown then there will be more than 5000 protesting, and I will be one of them. And I am tired of every friggin death being reported. 28 died in the uk in a day of WuHu flu. How many die of normal flu in the uk per day. Were ANY of those deaths EVER reported on an individual basis.

Dannyboy39 26th Jul 2021 07:05


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11085037)
How many die of normal flu in the uk per day

Around 1500 people per day. The UK is currently below its average annual death rate for 2021.

Xeptu 26th Jul 2021 08:04


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11084998)
Which state is that Xeptu? Not WA I hope (“swan downunder”). Their health system is in a complete shambles and should not be throwing stones across the borders

I'm well aware, I don't think any of the states are all that prepared, they don't want to spend the money on something that might not happen.

Turnleft080 26th Jul 2021 08:09

Just like to compare a few facts.
This time last year Melbourne was in Lockdown 2.
On this day last year 26/07/20, Melbourne recorded 453 cases and 10 deaths. Melbourne averaged about 15 deaths per day throughout the lockdown period.
Today with this real beast of a strain called Delta, Sydney record 145 cases 51 in community, 2 deaths, 10 in total since the lockdown started.
That's by eyeballing the graphs on worldometers, and add Sydney's claytons lockdown compared to Melbourne.

What do make of that. Comparatively shouldn't deaths be at least 20 a day. Which proves the Delta is not as deadly as the Wuhan.
Could of fooled me. Therefore I can conclude, the words spoken at every press conference are nothing but a fear, shock and awe show.
I have just put the entire NSW health department (the one Gladys relies on) in check, by just looking at a graph open to all.

Australopithecus 26th Jul 2021 08:27

What do anniversary dates have to do with your comparison? The delta strain mortality rate may indeed be lower, but since deaths lag cases by a few weeks it is too early to tell. Also the current outbreak may be infecting a different demographic since lots of the really vulnerable have in fact been vaccinated.

Either way, I cannot see lockdowns once we have passed some (arbitrary, politically expedient) vaccination uptake. In our well-intentioned drive to zero cases we have set the stage for covid hysteria and given the government a really convenient threat to protect us from.

Cloudee 26th Jul 2021 08:28


Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 (Post 11085041)
Around 1500 people per day. The UK is currently below its average annual death rate for 2021.

Really. Are you sure that’s not per year?
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...0182019and2020

SOPS 26th Jul 2021 08:35

I thought 1500 a day sounded like a lot!!!

Dannyboy39 26th Jul 2021 08:42


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11085091)
I thought 1500 a day sounded like a lot!!!

Sorry I read that wrong - I meant 1500 a day of all causes. Because at the end of the day, every death is tragic regardless of the cause.

Turnleft080 26th Jul 2021 08:47


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11085089)
What do anniversary dates have to do with your comparison? The delta strain mortality rate may indeed be lower, but since deaths lag cases by a few weeks it is too early to tell. Also the current outbreak may be infecting a different demographic since lots of the really vulnerable have in fact been vaccinated.

Either way, I cannot see lockdowns once we have passed some (arbitrary, politically expedient) vaccination uptake. In our well-intentioned drive to zero cases we have set the stage for covid hysteria and given the government a really convenient threat to protect us from.

A lot of statisticians will be comparing anniversaries with last years figures domestically and worldwide. I try another in 4 weeks time then.

mattyj 26th Jul 2021 10:11


Because at the end of the day, every death is tragic regardless of the cause
that’s not true..everyone dies..including you. I will give you a 100% guarantee.

If every death is a tragedy, then life isn’t worth living

MickG0105 26th Jul 2021 10:16


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11085076)
Melbourne averaged about 15 deaths per day throughout the lockdown period.

The second Melbourne lockdown went for 112 days, so that can't be the daily average. A little less than half that, say 7.25 deaths per day would be closer to the mark.


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11085076)
Just like to compare a few facts.This time last year Melbourne was in Lockdown 2.On this day last year 26/07/20, Melbourne recorded 453 cases and 10 deaths. Melbourne averaged about 15 deaths per day throughout the lockdown period.Today with this real beast of a strain called Delta, Sydney record 145 cases 51 in community, 2 deaths, 10 in total since the lockdown started.That's by eyeballing the graphs on worldometers, and add Sydney's claytons lockdown compared to Melbourne. What do make of that. Comparatively shouldn't deaths be at least 20 a day.

A couple of things to bear in mind here. It's pointless comparing dates twelve months apart when they fall on different places on the case count curve. Further, when Melbourne did go into lockdown the daily case counts were already in three figures; they were much further along the case count curve than where Sydney is presently.

Finally, if you were seeing 10 deaths from 453 cases last year why would you now be expecting to see 20 deaths from 145 cases - that's a better than sixfold increase in the case fatality rate. ​​​​​​​

novice110 26th Jul 2021 10:30

Turnleft080

As someone else said the demographics are very different in this NSW outbreak.
VIC had many in aged care and unvaccinated. NSW has managed to shield them / vaccinate them.

There are roughly the same amount of ICU patients currently admitted in NSW as there was in VICs PEAK last year.

The delta strain may be less lethal (?), but is proving more transmissible.




Turnleft080 26th Jul 2021 11:40

MickG0105 & novice
Fair enough. Just trying to compare the Wuhan/Melbourne & Delta/Sydney. Realise different demographics,
I'm guessing less cases and less deaths when SYD get to 112 days. (all hoping < 112 lockdown of course)

The delta strain may be less lethal (?), but is proving more transmissible.
I guess thats better than more lethal and less transmissible.


Australopithecus 26th Jul 2021 12:02


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11085174)
MickG0105 & novice


The delta strain may be less lethal (?), but is proving more transmissible.
I guess thats better than more lethal and less transmissible.

Don’t know about that. The delta numbers show that its more than twice as contagious, but its hard to compare mortality since there are increasing numbers of the vaccinated which would skew the mortality rates lower. One thing is clear is that covid is going to become an affliction of the unvaccinated, and that cohort will suffer higher risk and higher mortality than ever (in this country) because eventually lockdowns will end, and devil takes the hindmost.


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