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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Xeptu 27th Jul 2021 08:20


Originally Posted by machtuk (Post 11085518)
The biggest issue is fear, so many out there living in fear, exactly what the lunatic Premiers want!

I'm not sure that's right, I don't know anyone living in fear and some of those have actually been infected, pre vaccine.
It is fair to say we are "fearful" of what may be coming next (breakout strain), that's not the same thing.

Scooter Rassmussin 27th Jul 2021 08:29

It would not be fair to let it rip yet , considering most under 40s have not had access to the vaccine.

SOPS 27th Jul 2021 09:06


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11085526)
Well looks like another month lockdown for sydney

but construction will be allowed but with capacity limits
people living alone will be allowed another person to visit them, ie a friend

royal prince Alfred hospital is turning ambulances away right now due to a developing covid situation.

I am not doubting you. Do you have a source for all of that? I’m just interested.

In other news…. Our super smart Ballina couple have been hit with a total of $14000 in fines. They are lucky they are not in WA, they probably would be in jail.

ScepticalOptomist 27th Jul 2021 09:08


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11085517)
only 16% fully vaxed. 1000s will die.

1000’s already do. Perspective. 4’ish million dead from COVID - around 60 million die every year from all the other stuff we don’t try to eliminate.

Ladloy 27th Jul 2021 09:39


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11085552)
1000’s already do. Perspective. 4’ish million dead from COVID - around 60 million die every year from all the other stuff we don’t try to eliminate.

Would love some examples because this argument doesn't hold water.

machtuk 27th Jul 2021 09:40


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11085525)
That death toll may well be cheaper than having the nations biggest city locked down. Read this morning the Sydney lockdown alone is $220,000,000 per day! Victoria is $150,000,000. At $5.0M per life (for a healthy young adult) that's 44 deaths per day (NSW) and 30 Vic equivalent cost - assuming every death is a healthy, young(ish) taxpayer, not some old duck in their 80's or 90's like the vast majority have been and who are now, mostly, vaccinated.

How long until someone decides it's worth it?

No matter if "they" do, SHVC is spot on with his assertion:
They have set this unrealistic goal and now have to stick to it, having built their entire reelection campaigns on the "But only I kept you safe!" mantra - which the UK is showing to be a false prophecy. Despite vaccinations, despite lockdowns, you will still have cases, you will still have deaths. The goal of absolute zero Covid, while admirable, is like zero fatalities in flying, It's a target, a wish, we all aspire to achieve it, but it'll never happen.

Another well said post -)
The grubby politicians have dug us a hole so deep that we will never climb out unless they can think beyond their political careers which will never happen!
Remember politicians face reflections, that's a huge negative for the general public when it comes to making decisions outside of their own greed!

KRviator 27th Jul 2021 10:11


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11085573)
Would love some examples because this argument doesn't hold water.

For Australia alone, you can start with ~8,500 a year from "Malignant neoplasm of trachea, bronchus and lung" also known as lung cancer. The vast majority (90% men / 65% women - Source) of which is caused by - entirely voluntary, and accepted-by-Government - tobacco smoking. ABS: Leading causes of death, Australia, 2010, 2014, 2019

Of note, "Influenza and Pneumonia" caused 2,373, 2,879 and 4,124 deaths for those three years sampled, for an average of 3,125 deaths per year. Prostate cancer, around 3,100 blokes carked it per year, while around 2,900 women died from breast cancer.

So, between lung cancer, pneumonia, prostate and breast cancer we've killed off around 17,500 people a year!
If you want to add motor vehicles, that's an additional 1,100 a year, nationwide...

The total deaths for each year were 143,473, 153,580 & 168,960 - averaging that gives 155,000 people dying each year.

Foxxster 27th Jul 2021 10:23


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11085551)
I am not doubting you. Do you have a source for all of that? I’m just interested.

In other news…. Our super smart Ballina couple have been hit with a total of $14000 in fines. They are lucky they are not in WA, they probably would be in jail.

it was mentioned on channel 7 news tonight. Expect the formal announcement tomorrow morning at 11 which is the usual premiers news conference.

Ladloy 27th Jul 2021 10:33


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11085592)
For Australia alone, you can start with ~8,500 a year from "Malignant neoplasm of trachea, bronchus and lung" also known as lung cancer. The vast majority (90% men / 65% women - Source) of which is caused by - entirely voluntary, and accepted-by-Government - tobacco smoking. ABS: Leading causes of death, Australia, 2010, 2014, 2019

Of note, "Influenza and Pneumonia" caused 2,373, 2,879 and 4,124 deaths for those three years sampled, for an average of 3,125 deaths per year. Prostate cancer, around 3,100 blokes carked it per year, while around 2,900 women died from breast cancer.

So, between lung cancer, pneumonia, prostate and breast cancer we've killed off around 17,500 people a year!
If you want to add motor vehicles, that's an additional 1,100 a year, nationwide...

The total deaths for each year were 143,473, 153,580 & 168,960 - averaging that gives 155,000 people dying each year.


Smoking - billions spent on advertising and regulation. This one is a choice and the cost is huge on the taxpayer.

Breast and prostate cancer - billions spent per year on early detection, chemo, management, charities

Motor vehicles - HEAVILY regulated with compulsory billions spent on advertising for safety, speeding and drinking. Remember when seatbelts were mandatory and people cracked the poos?


You know what all these things have in common? If they were all left unregulated the death rate would be astronomically higher just like covid. If we let it rip right now take the swedish, US or UK death rates and apply them to Aus. 30 to 50k dead, herd immunity will not be achieved either. So you're happy to increase the death rate in Australia by 30% for up to 3 years?


Another argument is the cost of a human life. Dead people don't pay tax, thousands of dead people in a short time is very bad for the economy. Worse than the current debt accrued by the LNP.

Xeptu 27th Jul 2021 10:34


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11085592)
For Australia alone, you can start with ~8,500 a year from "Malignant neoplasm of trachea, bronchus and lung" also known as lung cancer. The vast majority (90% men / 65% women - Source) of which is caused by - entirely voluntary, and accepted-by-Government - tobacco smoking. ABS: Leading causes of death, Australia, 2010, 2014, 2019

Of note, "Influenza and Pneumonia" caused 2,373, 2,879 and 4,124 deaths for those three years sampled, for an average of 3,125 deaths per year. Prostate cancer, around 3,100 blokes carked it per year, while around 2,900 women died from breast cancer.

So, between lung cancer, pneumonia, prostate and breast cancer we've killed off around 17,500 people a year!
If you want to add motor vehicles, that's an additional 1,100 a year, nationwide...

The total deaths for each year were 143,473, 153,580 & 168,960 - averaging that gives 155,000 people dying each year.

These are all fair arguments that need to be put to the population in the conversation about a post vaccinated Australia. How do we want Australia to look going forward. There's no point telling a health professional these things when their sole purpose is to safe lives regardless of the cause. There's not much point blaming our Premiers either, they are doing exactly what we expect of them at this point. Comments like we're all sheep and the like aren't helping either, despite the understandable frustration. It's like sitting on the taxiway in a departure queue and a passenger yells out, oh FFS, how long do we have to wait, this taxiway is empty all the way to the runway, take it, lets go, bloody sheep.

SOPS 27th Jul 2021 10:53


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11085596)
it was mentioned on channel 7 news tonight. Expect the formal announcement tomorrow morning at 11 which is the usual premiers news conference.

Thanks mate. We are behind you.. just on the news now

rattman 27th Jul 2021 10:59


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11085611)
Thanks mate. We are behind you.. just on the news now

Pretty much every news source is reporting it now. The basics is 4 extra weeks, but some rules changed ie tradies and construction can be back working. year 12 will be back to school

Rapid antigen testing will be made available

industry insider 27th Jul 2021 11:31


The basics is 4 extra weeks, but some rules changed ie tradies and construction can be back working. year 12 will be back to school
I don't think that's going to snuff it out, numbers are getting worse not better. Easing anything isn't the way to go if the goal is to eliminate community transmission. NSW is going to be isolated from the rest of us for a few months yet.

Turnleft080 27th Jul 2021 11:37


Originally Posted by rattman (Post 11085621)
Pretty much every news source is reporting it now. The basics is 4 extra weeks, but some rules changed ie tradies and construction can be back working. year 12 will be back to school

Rapid antigen testing will be made available

What the? Mrs Lockdown has had one to many claytons.

Xeptu 27th Jul 2021 12:00

May as well lift the entire lockdown, it's pointless.

ruprecht 27th Jul 2021 12:02


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11085648)
May as well lift the entire lockdown, it's pointless.

I think we’re just buying time to get vaccines in arms at this point.

Xeptu 27th Jul 2021 12:24


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11085649)
I think we’re just buying time to get vaccines in arms at this point.

There is no time, it's too late, that will take weeks, by then there will be thousands of infections, all that is going to do is increase the chances of a breakout strain.
Her choices are a full uncompromising lockdown, or, let it rip. This is not going to end well.

ruprecht 27th Jul 2021 12:49


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11085661)
There is no time, it's too late, that will take weeks, by then there will be thousands of infections, all that is going to do is increase the chances of a breakout strain.
Her choices are a full uncompromising lockdown, or, let it rip. This is not going to end well.

Maybe, but it’s weeks with a lockdown rather than weeks without one. It’s about minimizing damage at this point. I agree it doesn’t look good though.

Eventually though, we will have to examine the costs of the lockdown vs lives saved (or deaths postponed) - but we are a long way from that point.

SOPS 27th Jul 2021 13:14

I say again, she has to lock down hard. She has to bring in the Army to the ‘communities’ that come to Australia, but don’t ‘ understand’ except when applying to Centrelink . Its now or never.

ruprecht 27th Jul 2021 13:28


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11085682)
I say again, she has to lock down hard. She has to bring in the Army to the ‘communities’ that come to Australia, but don’t ‘ understand’ except when applying to Centrelink . Its now or never.

The Army isn’t getting involved.

It’s not The Day of The Triffids…


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