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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Tucknroll 3rd May 2021 04:29


Originally Posted by Troo believer (Post 11037735)
An inconvenience. What a stupid ignorant comment. Try 3-4 months of it. Air New Zealand none.

stupid is thinking spending PAID time in quarantine is something to whine about. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Plenty of work available cleaning toilets with me on minimum wage champ.

Troo believer 3rd May 2021 06:02


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11037744)
stupid is thinking spending PAID time in quarantine is something to whine about. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Plenty of work available cleaning toilets with me on minimum wage champ.

Most of us have a story to tell on a minimum wage unfortunately. Sorry for your plight. It mustn’t be easy. The sooner we get out of this the better. One step is to get the quarantine rules changed. I’m merely pointing out the differences between the two countries participating in the bubble. Why quarantine when it’s unnecessary and not based on science. New Zealand don’t do it. Why should we when most are fully vaccinated. Call or email your local member and ask why. Do you want 14 or 0-2. It’s that simple.

ScepticalOptomist 3rd May 2021 10:17


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11037703)
But you do agree that so far only a small fraction of the population has been infected? And that the death rate is approximately 2%, and there are long term effects for perhaps 30% of the others? Extrapolate that out to a 100% infection incidence, who the hell is going to provide acute care for that many people, bury that many people and provide chronic care for that many people?

There was always going to be a race between the virus and the vaccine, and those countries that understood that have suffered fewer deaths and costs.

Therein lies the problem - which virus has ever infected 100%? None of them have.
COVID is dangerous to the elderly and to those with underlying conditions. It’s dangerous and should be contained.
To this day, CV kills approximately 2% of those that catch it. Even in the US where it ran rampant, 10% of the population caught it. Brazil, India, UK, Italy - all disasters, and yet all have similar stats - roughly 10% infection, roughly 1-2% of that 10% die. That’s approximately a 0.02 fatality rate for a population. Now look at the rates for every other fatal disease that we have. COVID is bad for sure - just not hysterically so.

We did much better in Australia / NZ. No argument there. Let’s see how we fare post CV - I reckon we’ve snookered ourselves a little. Time will tell how well we handle the “exit strategy”.

Australopithecus 3rd May 2021 11:16

You are right that 100% of populations don’t get infected since, among other things, viruses tend to die out after herd immunity is reached. But the current estimates about the current variations run into the low 80’s. Still lots of people, but that’s moot mostly because vaccines were developed in record time and are slowly becoming more widely available.

No, covid isn’t bad compared to SARS or other diseases, but those others you never get in pandemic numbers.

Regarding the exit strategy...I worry about it too since no one seems to be discussing what that is going to look like. Collectively we have embraced eradication, but since eternal isolation isn’t a practical path the government needs to start defining milestones and stages of reopening to the larger world. We certainly cannot let anti vaxxers inform policy on acceptable risk, one way or the other.

Icarus2001 3rd May 2021 12:34


but those others you never get in pandemic numbers.
Is it even a pandemic in Australia and NZ?

Only 246 cases in Australia. 25 cases in NZ

oldm8ey 3rd May 2021 20:52


Originally Posted by Troo believer (Post 11037759)
Most of us have a story to tell on a minimum wage unfortunately. Sorry for your plight. It mustn’t be easy. The sooner we get out of this the better. One step is to get the quarantine rules changed. I’m merely pointing out the differences between the two countries participating in the bubble. Why quarantine when it’s unnecessary and not based on science. New Zealand don’t do it. Why should we when most are fully vaccinated. Call or email your local member and ask why. Do you want 14 or 0-2. It’s that simple.

No stand down provisions in Air NZ contract. Air NZ has therefore been operating this whole time because they have no choice (must generate revenue). Not possible with 14 day crew quarantine. Clearly an arrangement between Air NZ and the NZ government (majority shareholder). Obviously it's just a different playing field on the west side of the Tasman. I'd file this under "it is what it is".

SHVC 3rd May 2021 21:56

Now two big name Cricket Australia commentators are lashing out at the PM saying he had bloody on his hands. I must say I hope those two are removed from public life. Why do these ppl think cricketers deserve preferential treatment, they put themself in this situation knowing what could happen.

This is another example of why Australian athletes should be band from attending the Olympic Games.

ScepticalOptomist 3rd May 2021 22:04


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11037919)
You are right that 100% of populations don’t get infected since, among other things, viruses tend to die out after herd immunity is reached. But the current estimates about the current variations run into the low 80’s. Still lots of people, but that’s moot mostly because vaccines were developed in record time and are slowly becoming more widely available.

No, covid isn’t bad compared to SARS or other diseases, but those others you never get in pandemic numbers.

Regarding the exit strategy...I worry about it too since no one seems to be discussing what that is going to look like. Collectively we have embraced eradication, but since eternal isolation isn’t a practical path the government needs to start defining milestones and stages of reopening to the larger world. We certainly cannot let anti vaxxers inform policy on acceptable risk, one way or the other.


I found this interesting regarding the US. Apologies for the link - hopefully it’s viewable!

https://apple.news/ADRGHPLjTQdWCbcDbzJHywg

The title was “Is the world finally getting sick of Covid-mania?” Published in The Australian newspaper May 4.

Troo believer 3rd May 2021 22:29


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11038239)
Now two big name Cricket Australia commentators are lashing out at the PM saying he had bloody on his hands. I must say I hope those two are removed from public life. Why do these ppl think cricketers deserve preferential treatment, they put themself in this situation knowing what could happen.

This is another example of why Australian athletes should be band from attending the Olympic Games.

Exhibit A.

Australopithecus 3rd May 2021 22:53


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11038240)
I found this interesting regarding the US. Apologies for the link - hopefully it’s viewable!

https://apple.news/ADRGHPLjTQdWCbcDbzJHywg

The title was “Is the world finally getting sick of Covid-mania?” Published in The Australian newspaper May 4.

I can’t view it since I don’t subscribe to any Murdoch media.

I did see this cartoon today, from the 1930’s. La plus ca change...


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a1d713042.jpeg

dr dre 4th May 2021 00:12


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11038240)
I found this interesting regarding the US. Apologies for the link - hopefully it’s viewable!

https://apple.news/ADRGHPLjTQdWCbcDbzJHywg

The title was “Is the world finally getting sick of Covid-mania?” Published in The Australian newspaper May 4.

Actually more like “are US Republicans getting sick of Covid restrictions?” And the answer being yes, they’ve been sick of them since this pandemic started, which is why Republican states have had higher Covid tolls than Democratic ones.

As far as Australia goes well there was a Lowy Institute poll recently with some telling stats on what Australians want with borders:

A Lowy Institute poll has shown only two in 10, or 18 per cent of people, feel all Australians should be free to leave the country.

41 per cent agreed with the current policy that requires people to have special exemptions to be allowed to leave the country.

Only a third of Australians aged 18-59 said those vaccinated should be free to leave now


Almost 60 per cent feel the government has done enough to help fellow citizens return home

No Australians felt the US had handled COVID-19 very well, while a whopping 92 per cent said the pandemic was managed very or fairly badly there




ScepticalOptomist 4th May 2021 01:06


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11038289)
Actually more like “are US Republicans getting sick of Covid restrictions?” And the answer being yes, they’ve been sick of them since this pandemic started, which is why Republican states have had higher Covid tolls than Democratic ones.

As far as Australia goes well there was a Lowy Institute poll recently with some telling stats on what Australians want with borders:

A Lowy Institute poll has shown only two in 10, or 18 per cent of people, feel all Australians should be free to leave the country.

41 per cent agreed with the current policy that requires people to have special exemptions to be allowed to leave the country.

Only a third of Australians aged 18-59 said those vaccinated should be free to leave now


Almost 60 per cent feel the government has done enough to help fellow citizens return home

No Australians felt the US had handled COVID-19 very well, while a whopping 92 per cent said the pandemic was managed very or fairly badly there

Says a lot about what we’ve become. It’s sad how insular and mollycoddled we are.

kingRB 4th May 2021 02:29


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11038289)
Actually more like “are US Republicans getting sick of Covid restrictions?” And the answer being yes, they’ve been sick of them since this pandemic started, which is why Republican states have had higher Covid tolls than Democratic ones.

Posting more politicized crap like its factual eh Dre?

Interesting "Medical" website that one. After you're done reading about how "people I don't like get Covid more", You can also read about :
Should we criminalize speech we don't like?
Transphobia
Can men get periods?
How to have commitment free sex with as many people as possible

Don't worry though, these are all "fact checked" and "medically reviewed" by the same publisher that wrote them.

chookcooker 4th May 2021 04:28


The authors of the study write that they adjusted for “state population density, rurality, Census region, age, race, ethnicity, poverty, number of physicians, obesity, cardiovascular disease, asthma, smoking, and presidential voting in 2020.”

ha ha. Yup no bias there.

Fonz121 4th May 2021 12:05

How's Australia and it's elimination policy going to deal with this?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/h...=pocket-newtab

Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe



Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Instead, they are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.

Ladloy 5th May 2021 00:09


Originally Posted by Fonz121 (Post 11038543)
How's Australia and it's elimination policy going to deal with this?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/h...=pocket-newtab

Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe


My understanding was that the elimination policy in Australia was a placeholder until the population was vaccinated enough to have herd immunity. The US will most likely have a much lower total vaccination rate due to the great divide in politics, but who knows, there's enough reluctance here now too.

ruprecht 5th May 2021 01:02


Originally Posted by Fonz121 (Post 11038543)
How's Australia and it's elimination policy going to deal with this?

At some point in the future, the borders will be open, and people will be able to leave and return with no quarantine requirements. I used to say that the trick was figuring out when that point would be, but now I’m not so sure. Now I think that the trick is to convince people that this point actually exists.

In my secondary employment I work with people who have all their friends and relatives within 100km, who “went to Queensland once” and “didn’t like it”. They want the borders closed, and I quote: “forever, keep them shut, no one out or in until the virus has gone”. If anyone thinks we are going to get 100% consensus on the border opening they’re deluded.

Once everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated in this country, the government needs show some leadership and start looking at a date for a gradual reopening.

lc_461 5th May 2021 02:36


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11038868)
At some point in the future, the borders will be open, and people will be able to leave and return with no quarantine requirements. I used to say that the trick was figuring out when that point would be, but now I’m not so sure. Now I think that the trick is to convince people that this point actually exists.

In my secondary employment I work with people who have all their friends and relatives within 100km, who “went to Queensland once” and “didn’t like it”. They want the borders closed, and I quote: “forever, keep them shut, no one out or in until the virus has gone”. If anyone thinks we are going to get 100% consensus on the border opening they’re deluded.

Once everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated in this country, the government needs show some leadership and start looking at a date for a gradual reopening.

If you actually wade through the comments of Jill and Joe Public re the India ban, they are largely very supportive of the government's ban. WA and QLD and to a lesser extent TAS and NT won state/territory elections based on locking out "others". Qld Premier "Qld hospitals are for Qlders". I would argue it is highly unlikely that ScoMo would seek to take this step in opening the border in an election year. Vaccine hesitancy appears rife in some sectors, but anecdotally where the virus impacted last year the most (VIC), people are more prepared to take the "risk" of the vaccine. Why the govt doesn't spend $50M rolling out a massive ad campaign and use carrot and stick incentives I don't know...

jrfsp 5th May 2021 03:21

A local case just identified in Sydney, unknown source at this stage - not good.

Icarus2001 5th May 2021 07:26

Yes, ONE CASE, let’s all panic now and kill every small business selling coffees and meals...


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