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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

SOPS 8th May 2021 05:48

Just because you are vaccinated, does not mean you can’t catch COVID. It just means you won’t get really sick. It seems to have crept into peoples thinking that if your vaccinated, you can’t catch COVID.

ScepticalOptomist 8th May 2021 05:55


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11040725)
Just because you are vaccinated, does not mean you can’t catch COVID. It just means you won’t get really sick. It seems to have crept into peoples thinking that if your vaccinated, you can’t catch COVID.

True. Though there does seem to be growing data sets indicating that CV may not be transmissible if you are vaccinated. Time will tell how that goes.

What the article should have highlighted was that it seems those infected and vaccinated were symptom free. CV isn’t scary if it does nothing to you. The takeaway should have been - get vaccinated.

Dannyboy39 8th May 2021 06:37


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11040718)
surely if you decide to holiday in Australia, you would still be at the mercy of our quarantine laws regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not. Which would mean two weeks isolation on arrival. Which I would think might dampen anyone’s or most people’s plans. Especially as you have to pay for it, somewhere around 1,800 squid for an individual.

As mentioned before, it should be me in December 2021 doing exactly this. I am resigned to it not happening now. I was actually being sarcastic about how wonderful it is to have a country on our safe to travel list that isn't allowing visitors!

On the vaccine, it is believe transmission is reduced by up to 50% with a vaccine. There is less and less Covid 'in the system' meaning it will be increasingly difficult for someone to find it.

Foxxster 8th May 2021 07:20


Originally Posted by SRFred (Post 11040719)
"Six overseas travellers who reported they were fully vaccinated have tested positive for COVID-19 while in hotel quarantine, authorities have revealed.

The numbers were released in this week’s NSW Health COVID-19 surveillance report as the federal government pushes forward with its vaccine passport plans.

The report states six people in the NSW hotel quarantine system tested positive over four weeks ending on May 1, despite reporting they were vaccinated prior to landing in Australia."

Make of that what you will.

yes it could be clickbait or it could be people from a certain country that is going through a massive number of cases every day and are not averse to producing counterfeit documents.

https://qz.com/india/1993757/indians-are-using-fake-covid-19-results-to-travel-skip-exams/

https://www.refworld.org/docid/538c369f4.html

coaldemon 8th May 2021 07:42

The vaccine will only save you from getting really sick if you catch COvid not so much from transmitting it. Although look at the Seychelles who are pretty much all vaccinated with vaccine from their North Asian benefactor. Apparently it isn't very effective and there is another wave starting there.

Angle of Attack 8th May 2021 12:15

Well if there is wave that won’t make you sick what’s the problem?

dr dre 8th May 2021 13:19


Originally Posted by coaldemon (Post 11040769)
The vaccine will only save you from getting really sick if you catch COvid not so much from transmitting it. Although look at the Seychelles who are pretty much all vaccinated with vaccine from their North Asian benefactor. Apparently it isn't very effective and there is another wave starting there.

This is from the leading newspaper of the Seychelles:


The cases we received recently are mostly close contacts and the majority of them are without symptom or with mild symptoms.
So the vaccine is working as intended. It protects against severe illness and hospitalisation. There’s an amount of spread because the island re-opened a few months ago (they’re heavily reliant on tourism).




minigundiplomat 8th May 2021 23:23

So the vaccine is working as intended. It protects against severe illness and hospitalisation. There’s an amount of spread because the island re-opened a few months ago (they’re heavily reliant on tourism)

Nobody is allowed to get sick from now on, you should know that.

Troo believer 9th May 2021 00:14


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11041322)
So the vaccine is working as intended. It protects against severe illness and hospitalisation. There’s an amount of spread because the island re-opened a few months ago (they’re heavily reliant on tourism)

Nobody is allowed to get sick from now on, you should know that.

Yes it seems that most of the general population are woefully ignorant and too lazy to educate themselves enough to have a modicum of understanding with regards to viruses and vaccines.

Millions of virus particles pass through our bodies everyday. A bucket of sea water near the coast line contains more virus particles than people on this planet. Some viruses are actually good and help us function whilst others not so good. Nothing in life is guaranteed and yet the numbty public are happy to consign responsibility for their own life and wellbeing over to the government whom will manipulate health propaganda in the most cynical fashion in order to ensure power remains within the LNP and or Labor Party. Look at WA.

We desperately need a Bill of Rights in this country. The abuse of power is obvious. The India fiasco and the threat of fining citizens trying to get home by the federal government is a national disgrace. Rather than lead they react. Poll driven selling a narrative that doesn’t pass any science. Just abysmal behaviour from the leadership that can’t commit to any timeline or cohesive policy on how we get out of this mess. We desperately need a strong leader to steer us out of this swamp. Could you imagine this sort of paralysis during a war? I no longer have faith or respect for Australia.
We suffer en masse from CLS. Chicken Little Syndrome.
Ah, that feels better.😀

Cirressna 9th May 2021 00:20

What I don't understand is the number of deaths in the Seychelles is essentially 0, so why the lockdown? Are their hospitals overrun? Or is it is the global obsession with case numbers? To me it seems like the vaccine is working if no one is dying/clogging up the hospitals

White Knight 9th May 2021 04:15


Originally Posted by coaldemon
The vaccine will only save you from getting really sick if you catch COvid not so much from transmitting it.

It does cut transmission drastically; if you yourself aren't as ill with the virus (having been vaccinated) then there are far fewer viral particles in your upper airway, hence far less to cough and sneeze out, hence reducing the transmission. So I'm led to believe... Makes sense though!

QFF 9th May 2021 06:21

The treasurer says today that the international border won't open till 2022 and that it's important that we "follow the medical advice". What is this "medical advice" that everyone seems to be following these days? "Medical advice" seems to cover a multitude of sins - from jailing returning citizens, locking down states and closing borders. Show us the evidence! What is happening in 2022 that renders it safe to open borders then? Why 2022 and not 2023/2024/never?

PM says elimination is not the goal and that borders will reopen when "it is safe to do so". What, like CASA's definition of safety - when zero planes are in the air, when there are zero cases of COVID...?

I suspect the safest thing to do is to have everyone vaccinated, but the govt seems to have shot themselves in the foot on that too - besides botching the rollout, now with minimal/no cases in the community, the side effects of the vaccine are more lethal than COVID and people feel there is no urgency/need to be vaccinated. After all, we're all right, Jack.

I'd love to know what the govt's definition of "safe" is, and how they expect to achieve that in 2022.

ruprecht 9th May 2021 06:41


Originally Posted by QFF (Post 11041408)
What is happening in 2022 that renders it safe to open borders then?

A federal election.

lc_461 9th May 2021 06:50


Originally Posted by QFF (Post 11041408)
I suspect the safest thing to do is to have everyone vaccinated, but the govt seems to have shot themselves in the foot on that too - besides botching the rollout, now with minimal/no cases in the community, the side effects of the vaccine are more lethal than COVID and people feel there is no urgency/need to be vaccinated. After all, we're all right, Jack.

This is the exact issue... my elderly parents (well >50+) are both in reasonable health but refusing to get vaccinated due to fear of blood clots. But apart from the fact that two of their children have been heavily impacted by the pandemic, their lives in the past 6 months, not so much. Mind you, they are also feeling "safe" in QLD. With no covid circulating in the community they aren't afraid and therefore not willing to take the vaccine "risk".
Its a dilemma - both have had the flu shot this year and would not accept being called an anti-vaxxer. I'm now grateful to be fully vaccinated, but I fear for the industry that this kind of mindset is developing in the older population, let alone the younger ones!

QFF 9th May 2021 06:50


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11041424)
A federal election.

Would that take place on medical advice, too?

dr dre 9th May 2021 06:55


Originally Posted by Cirressna (Post 11041344)
What I don't understand is the number of deaths in the Seychelles is essentially 0, so why the lockdown? Are their hospitals overrun? Or is it is the global obsession with case numbers? To me it seems like the vaccine is working if no one is dying/clogging up the hospitals

I can’t tell. Not really much news coming out of the Seychelles. But they aren’t really instituting a lockdown. Masks compulsory, large gatherings banned, schools closed for two weeks. But inbound tourism is still encouraged, and restaurants and bars open with shorter hours.

ExtraShot 9th May 2021 06:58


Originally Posted by QFF (Post 11041408)
The treasurer says today that the international border won't open till 2022 and that it's important that we "follow the medical advice". What is this "medical advice" that everyone seems to be following these days? "Medical advice" seems to cover a multitude of sins - from jailing returning citizens, locking down states and closing borders. Show us the evidence! What is happening in 2022 that renders it safe to open borders then? Why 2022 and not 2023/2024/never?

PM says elimination is not the goal and that borders will reopen when "it is safe to do so". What, like CASA's definition of safety - when zero planes are in the air, when there are zero cases of COVID...?

I suspect the safest thing to do is to have everyone vaccinated, but the govt seems to have shot themselves in the foot on that too - besides botching the rollout, now with minimal/no cases in the community, the side effects of the vaccine are more lethal than COVID and people feel there is no urgency/need to be vaccinated. After all, we're all right, Jack.

I'd love to know what the govt's definition of "safe" is, and how they expect to achieve that in 2022.



I’ve said it earlier and I’ll say it again, Liberal or Labor, ‘Safe’ means ‘electorally’ safe... that is, they aren’t risking next years election to give people their freedoms back.

Once that election is won, it’ll then mysteriously become ‘safe’ for travelers from certain countries/regions, and the vaccinations will be heralded as an unmitigated success to allow for those bubbles and relaxed quarantine requirements... (look at the US relaxing their travel requirements) .


https://www.smh.com.au/business/bank...07-p57q0r.html

...the big business string pullers are already demanding the floodgates open and they do NOT want to pay the wages required to attract the talent, nor provide any costly training to us expensive locals as would have to occur if our borders were to remain closed (they aren’t even attempting to hide this fact). They want the taps for low-wage ‘skilled’ migration turned back on ASAP.

Hard Borders will have to start to loosen because the federal government ain’t getting on with building the quarantine facilities required to funnel masses of people back in. They’ll need the hotel quarantine spots currently used for Australians returning from Europe, the US etc, so that NAB and the like can get their accounting and IT graduates from the subcontinent, and restaurants to get their chefs from the Philippines, etc, etc...

SO, all of a sudden bubbles for the vaccinated become acceptable from Singapore, Europe, the UK the US etc where vaccination rates are high, home quarantine perhaps acceptable from others, reduced quarantine from others... so as not to have those people using up hotel quarantine spots for those other areas that may need 14 days... and on it goes.

The migration Ponzi is far too engrained for us to remain a closed shop for long, but our livelihoods will continue to be sacrificed until the election has been run and done because both major parties have seen just how potent that is with the average voter.

ruprecht 9th May 2021 07:04


Originally Posted by lc_461 (Post 11041433)
This is the exact issue... my elderly parents (well >50+) are both in reasonable health but refusing to get vaccinated due to fear of blood clots. But apart from the fact that two of their children have been heavily impacted by the pandemic, their lives in the past 6 months, not so much. Mind you, they are also feeling "safe" in QLD. With no covid circulating in the community they aren't afraid and therefore not willing to take the vaccine "risk".
Its a dilemma - both have had the flu shot this year and would not accept being called an anti-vaxxer. I'm now grateful to be fully vaccinated, but I fear for the industry that this kind of mindset is developing in the older population, let alone the younger ones!

Yes it’s an interesting loop we find ourselves in.

We have zero covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated so the border opening gets further delayed so there is no covid so there is no rush to get vaccinated...

:hmm:



601 9th May 2021 08:34

If we do get a breakout here in the not do distance future, the rush on toilet paper we have seen will be minuscule compared on the rush for the vaccination.

QFF 9th May 2021 08:53


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 11041495)
If we do get a breakout here in the not do distance future, the rush on toilet paper we have seen will be minuscule compared on the rush for the vaccination.

That's a bum steer! :}


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