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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Tucknroll 17th Apr 2021 09:03


Originally Posted by Troo believer (Post 11029484)
The latest from the CDC in the USA. And before you go on about the Americans mismanaging the pandemic, which they did thanks to Donald, just remember where the two mRNA vaccines have come from.
Travel overseas and upon return NO NEED TO QUARANTINE.
Why?
Because you’re vaccinated and that can only be a good thing and yet here we are once again dragging the chain. Re inventing the wheel. Thinking we know better. When was the last time that Australia designed and built an airliner? Austronauts. What are we now Vaccinauts. This is a pilot forum. We fly technical equipment invented by scientists and engineers. It’s about time we applied some science and logic to the discussion. Not some abstract crap you heard on social media. We’ve become a bunch of risk averse pussies.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....eb78eb967.jpeg

I think you’ll find we are listening to the experts - Australian experts who didn’t completely mess up the management of this virus. The CDC is all well and good but 1000 people are still dying every day in the US and the total is in excess of 566,000 deaths. They have the highest number of confirmed cases and the highest overall death toll of any country. They are 15th in the world for total deaths per capita, behind a list of developing countries or countries without decent medical infrastructure. Their economy is stuffed and their population has suffered.

Why on earth would we follow their policy?

Troo believer 17th Apr 2021 09:58


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11029599)
I think you’ll find we are listening to the experts - Australian experts who didn’t completely mess up the management of this virus. The CDC is all well and good but 1000 people are still dying every day in the US and the total is in excess of 566,000 deaths. They have the highest number of confirmed cases and the highest overall death toll of any country. They are 15th in the world for total deaths per capita, behind a list of developing countries or countries without decent medical infrastructure. Their economy is stuffed and their population has suffered.

Why on earth would we follow their policy?

Between the USA , Israel and the UK they’re are leading the OECD in vaccination rates by a country mile. Stop looking back but look forward. We did a great job in controlling the pandemic, except for the Victorian episode, which could have happened anywhere in Australia. Lots of luck. But the cold hard fact remains that whilst we dither and pat our own backs, tourism, education, aviation and trade will suffer. We are good at saying no but not much else.
This whole saga reminds me of our aviation environment. Over regulated, pedantic,bureaucratic self serving nonsense. Flying in the USA is enjoyable. Arriving back in Australian airspace takes the fun out of it. Being chipped for not reading back verbatim a clearance to hold short of a runway holding point is so typically Australian. God we carry on with so much crap in this country. The land of government and bureaucracy.

“Had we secured more of the leading candidates last year and not insisted on duplicating the approval processes already completed overseas – naively asserting our regulatory superiority over Britain, EU, and US – we could have begun vaccinating by Christmas. But what can we do now?”
Quoted from SMH article
Steven Hamilton is Assistant Professor of Economics at George Washington University and Richard Holden is Professor of Economics at UNSW.
The parallels to aviation are obvious.

ScepticalOptomist 17th Apr 2021 11:45


Originally Posted by Troo believer (Post 11029625)
Between the USA , Israel and the UK they’re are leading the OECD in vaccination rates by a country mile. Stop looking back but look forward.




“Had we secured more of the leading candidates last year and not insisted on duplicating the approval processes already completed overseas – naively asserting our regulatory superiority over Britain, EU, and US – we could have begun vaccinating by Christmas. But what can we do now?”
Quoted from SMH article
Steven Hamilton is Assistant Professor of Economics at George Washington University and Richard Holden is Professor of Economics at UNSW.
The parallels to aviation are obvious.

Couldn’t agree more. Well said.

SOPS 18th Apr 2021 02:08

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cor...lion-c-2620816

Can’t see much political will to open the borders anytime soon. And with transmission in NSW HQ today, .......?????

turbantime 18th Apr 2021 02:55


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11029975)
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cor...lion-c-2620816

Can’t see much political will to open the borders anytime soon. And with transmission in NSW HQ today, .......?????

No leak into the community...yet...and all HQ workers either fully or partially vaccinated.

Troo believer 18th Apr 2021 03:52


kiwi grey 18th Apr 2021 04:45

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....128e2a18c2.jpg

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...avel/100077086

nomorecatering 18th Apr 2021 11:15

I think a lot of people don;t quite understand what a vaccines "efficay" really means.

This should explain it.


Troo believer 18th Apr 2021 14:41


Originally Posted by nomorecatering (Post 11030172)
I think a lot of people don;t quite understand what a vaccines "efficay" really means.

This should explain it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A

Fantastic explanation.
This screen shot says it all.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....be391cb042.png

Fuel-Off 18th Apr 2021 17:33


No leak into the community...yet...and all HQ workers either fully or partially vaccinated
So vaccinated HQ workers are allowed to go home without quarantine, yet fully vaccinated crews with vaccines approved by the Australian Government are handed detention notices and locked up? As an Australian I find that utterly shameful.

Fuel-Off :ok:

dysslexicgod 18th Apr 2021 20:27

Does anyone NOT see the problem of counterfeit vaccination certificates? We cannot open the boarders until that problem is solved.

rattman 18th Apr 2021 20:54


Originally Posted by dysslexicgod (Post 11030374)
Does anyone NOT see the problem of counterfeit vaccination certificates? We cannot open the boarders until that problem is solved.


Its already a problem, more specifically doctors certificates that you are covid free have been available within hours of them being needed. While afik no country has issued paper or electronic vacination certificates soon a real copy can be aquired there will absolutely be fakes available to buy

turbantime 18th Apr 2021 21:27


Originally Posted by Fuel-Off (Post 11030315)
So vaccinated HQ workers are allowed to go home without quarantine, yet fully vaccinated crews with vaccines approved by the Australian Government are handed detention notices and locked up? As an Australian I find that utterly shameful.

Fuel-Off :ok:

Agree with the hypocrisy here. I’ve been very critical about HQ workers and other Covid ward workers being able to mix in the community without restrictions while international airline crew are not able to leave home. When an ‘outbreak’ eventually occurs, it’s the airline crew that once again suffer. I’ve written to the media and my local MP about this but it seems as though no one really cares.

blubak 18th Apr 2021 21:28

Again there is no clarity from him,i am over 50 & will gladly get the jab but i havent seen or heard anything about how i get it.
As usual,he makes statements to make himself look good whilst attending photo shoot opportunities & ignoring what he should be concentrating on.

WingNut60 18th Apr 2021 21:48


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 11030391)
Again there is no clarity from him,i am over 50 & will gladly get the jab but i havent seen or heard anything about how i get it.
As usual,he makes statements to make himself look good whilst attending photo shoot opportunities & ignoring what he should be concentrating on.

Correct on all fronts.
All proclaimed in the same speech where he affirmed that there has been "no change in the program".
Unless he was talking about persons with underlying health problems or essential workers over 50? But who knows what he was on about.


COVID-19 vaccination rollout phasesThe Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) has advised the Australian Government on which groups should be prioritised for the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccination in Australia. This advice is consistent with guidance from the World Health Organization (WHO).

We are currently vaccinated people in Phase 1a and Phase 1b. (Never mind the grammar)
Over 50's (the herd) are in phase 2.

galdian 18th Apr 2021 22:23

Always thought best way to look at a problem with multiple facets was to break it down.

Departures is not the problem, couple of million piss off would be OK for Oz BUT with no guarantee or immediate expectation of return date/criteria/requirements as that's the work in progress.
All fares are inflated a tad to assume minimal loads into Oz until things sorted.

The hospitality/tourism sector would need some sort of ongoing support until the widest possible opening of inbounds ie tourists can be allowed.

Added bonus of shutting up the 50% or so who are bitching about not being able to depart.

Troo believer 18th Apr 2021 22:33

Vaccine Efficacy. What it really means.
From the CDC.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....38ab48605.jpeg
A statement that was found from the ABC COVID site which was most interesting.

Why vaccine efficacy and effectiveness are not the same thing.As David Spiegelhalter, the chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at Cambridge University, and Anthony Masters, a statistical ambassador for the Royal Statistical Society, outlined in The Guardian, a 90 per cent efficacy rate does not mean an individual has a 10 per cent chance of contracting COVID-19.

"Imagine 100 people are ill with COVID-19," the experts explained. "‘Ninety per cent efficacy' means if only they'd had the vaccine, on average only 10 would have got ill.

"Vaccine efficacy is the relative reduction in the risk: whatever your risk was before, it is reduced by 90 per cent if you get vaccinated. There is a lot of confusion about this number: it does not mean there is a 10 per cent chance of getting COVID-19 if vaccinated — that chance will be massively lower than 10 per cent."


LapSap 18th Apr 2021 22:55


Originally Posted by dysslexicgod (Post 11030374)
Does anyone NOT see the problem of counterfeit vaccination certificates? We cannot open the boarders until that problem is solved.

Ha, what I said a few months back.
The day after there’s agreement on a format for a globally acceptable vax passport, you’ll be able to buy one in Shenzhen for a couple of hundred Yuan.

Australopithecus 19th Apr 2021 00:14

There's not going to be a meaningful international standard because the WHO oppose having travel being subject to vaccination status!

The UN adopted a list of basic human rights that they have to adhere to. One of these is the “right of free movement” despite the fact that borders and restrictions are not under the purview of the UN, and no one has ever enjoyed this fictional right.

We have passports, visas, UN recognised vaccine certification already, but for this the WHO wants to play idealogical games.

Qwark 19th Apr 2021 23:07


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11030422)
There's not going to be a meaningful international standard because the WHO oppose having travel being subject to vaccination status!

The UN adopted a list of basic human rights that they have to adhere to. One of these is the “right of free movement” despite the fact that borders and restrictions are not under the purview of the UN, and no one has ever enjoyed this fictional right.

We have passports, visas, UN recognised vaccine certification already, but for this the WHO wants to play idealogical games.

Lets hope the WHO win their “idealogical game”


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