PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Chronic Snoozer 26th Apr 2021 10:59


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11034146)
I think when the politicians saw what happened OS. The ‘ curve getting flat’ was still killing a lot of people. Now, for Australia, its eradication at all costs.

So stop letting it leak out of hotel quarantine. Nobody cares who is responsible as long as its done properly and is tighter than a fish’s rrrrs. McGowan has done a bit of deflecting - ultimately it was and is a State responsibility accepted and done poorly. First the leak with the security guard now this one. I agree with him re travel overseas with a good reason only, but the buck still stops with WA Health. The numbers accepted into hotel quarantine from overseas arrivals is not why the virus leaked.


Mercure cluster timeline
  • January 31 – Perth goes into a five-day lockdown because of case 903 where a security guard at the Four Points Sheraton tests positive to COVID-19.
  • February 4 – Professor Tarun Weeramanthri provides initial advice and calls for an immediate independent expert review of airflow and ventilation in all WA quarantine hotels.
  • February 24 – Independent reviewers, Glossop Consultancy, recommend to the government that the Four Points be retained until it could be replaced by the Adnate Hotel in the quarantine system.
  • March 10 – Initial ventilation review completed.
  • March 31 – Final ventilation report provided to WA Health.
  • April 3 – A 54-year-old Victorian man arrives in Perth from China and starts hotel quarantine at the Mecure Hotel.
  • April 8 – Summary reports on hotel ventilation provided to Chief Health Officer Andy Robertson which states the Mercure is the most at-risk hotel and the Four Points and Novotel Langley are also high risk.
  • April 10 – an Australian man returns from India and starts quarantining at the Mercure with his new wife after going overseas for his own wedding.
  • April 13 – The man who came back from India tests positive to the virus.
  • April 15 – The wife of the man who came back from India tests positive.
  • April 16 – Premier Mark McGowan and Health Minister Roger Cook receive advice from the CHO on ventilation saying risks at the three high-risk hotels could be mitigated by closing them or bringing in other measures. Dr Robertson suggests transitioning the Mercure to taking low-risk international arrivals such as seasonal workers from countries with no COVID-19. A nurse and her daughter, staying at the Mercure since April 3 after returning from the United Kingdom, in quarantine in a room across from the couple who came back from India test positive to the virus.
  • April 17 – The Victorian man, who was in an immediate adjacent room to the positive cases, is let out of quarantine after testing negative for the virus and not showing any symptoms. He is a tourist in Perth and visits several cafes, restaurants and sightseeing locations, while staying at St Catherine’s on Park in Crawley.
  • April 21 – Genomic sequencing reveals the UK family cases are linked to the returned couple from India who are in a neighbouring room and tested positive for the virus a few days after going into quarantine on April 10. The government tells 16 other people who were staying on the same floor to self-isolate until they return a negative test. Two other people who were guests in adjacent rooms to the positive cases told to isolate for two weeks. Victorian man flies home to Melbourne on QF-778 but is immediately told to go into isolation by health authorities.
  • April 23 – The Victorian man returns a positive test for COVID-19 as does a woman from Kardinya he stayed with on April 17. Mr McGowan announces a three-day lockdown from midnight.
  • April 24 – A West Australian man in his 40s becomes the second community case in connection to the Victorian man after dining at the same restaurant on April 18.
  • April 25 – No new cases of COVID-19 are recorded in WA in the community.
  • April 26 – Mr McGowan announces Perth will come out of lockdown at 12.01am on Tuesday but there will be four days of interim restrictions before the government reassesses the situation.


ScepticalOptomist 26th Apr 2021 11:42


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11034146)
I think when the politicians saw what happened OS. The ‘ curve getting flat’ was still killing a lot of people. Now, for Australia, its eradication at all costs.

Thats rubbish, the curves OS weren’t being flattened at all, they were rapidly rising.

Our politicians shat themselves at what may happen knowing that their hospital system was way below par. As usual a massive over reaction based on fear alone.

Tucknroll 26th Apr 2021 12:05

The politicians are following the best guidance from medical professionals. Doctors aren’t telling us how to fly planes, maybe we should stick to our wheelhouses. Let’s let the people who understand the intricacies of a global viral pandemic advise our nation’s leaders. Australia is the envy of the world for a reason.

Chronic Snoozer 26th Apr 2021 12:34


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11034202)
Doctors aren’t telling us how to fly planes,

No, accountants and lawyers do.

Icarus2001 26th Apr 2021 13:00


The politicians are following the best guidance from medical professionals.
If that is the case why is every state and territory doing things differently? The variation is politics, pure and simple.

601 26th Apr 2021 14:07


If that is the case why is every state and territory doing things differently? The variation is politics, pure and simple.
There is a lot of variation on the verbal advice given in interviews by the State CMOs.
Australia's failing is that the State Premiers want to keep their own little empires instead of handing all of the CMO's responsibilities to the Federal COM so we could have a country wide policy.
In Qld, at present, the CMO has more authority than the Premier.

ScepticalOptomist 26th Apr 2021 21:00


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11034202)
The politicians are following the best guidance from medical professionals. Doctors aren’t telling us how to fly planes, maybe we should stick to our wheelhouses. Let’s let the people who understand the intricacies of a global viral pandemic advise our nation’s leaders. Australia is the envy of the world for a reason.

And it’s people who believe this that are holding the country back.

What a load of rubbish. It’s like taking aviation advice from the “experts” you hear from in the paper.

If you had any insight into our CHOs you wouldn’t sleep at night. They’re not in the position because of great medical skills or knowledge!

SHVC 26th Apr 2021 21:21

Why are we not considering this? Australia is such a 3rd world country at the moment.

Germany set to abolish quarantine for travellers

Germany will move to abolish self-isolation requirements for travellers who have been fully vaccinated or who have already contracted COVID-19.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...7fe8?width=650German Chancellor Angela Merkel addresses a press conference. Picture: AFP.The government’s draft paper would allow millions of Germans to holiday in hundreds of countries over the European summer.

Currently travellers are required to undertake ten days of home quarantine after they return from “high risk” areas including France, Italy and the US.

The new freedoms would not apply to travellers returning from 11 areas with high case numbers of the new variants including India, Brazil, South Africa and the Moselle region of France, which borders Germany.

Travellers would also be required to prove they tested positive for the disease more than a month earlier and recovered.

dysslexicgod 26th Apr 2021 22:07

svhc:

Why are we not considering this? Australia is such a 3rd world country at the moment.

Germany set to abolish quarantine for travellers

Germany will move to abolish self-isolation requirements for travellers who have been fully vaccinated or who have already contracted COVID-19.
Because perfect forgeries of the vaccination and medical certificates required by BorderForce will be available in Third world countries within hours of such a rash decision.

Don't you understand that the reason ScoMo won't let Australians leave the country is to avoid the charge of hypocrisy when he prohibited foreign arrivals?

Do you really want Australia to be swamped with Covid19 refugees?

....or are you just a pilot pining for their lost career?


Foxxster 26th Apr 2021 22:18


Originally Posted by dysslexicgod (Post 11034424)
svhc:

Because perfect forgeries of the vaccination and medical certificates required by BorderForce will be available in Third world countries within hours of such a rash decision.

Don't you understand that the reason ScoMo won't let Australians leave the country is to avoid the charge of hypocrisy when he prohibited foreign arrivals?

Do you really want Australia to be swamped with Covid19 refugees?

....or are you just a pilot pining for their lost career?


talking about perfect forgeries.. seems there might have been some presented by passengers on this flight. Regardless, this is exactly why ALL flights from India should have been stopped days ago. I understand federal cabinet are meeting today to decide on this matter. They better bloody do it. Because people are getting way beyond fed up with lockdowns . And the percentage of infected passengers from India is way, way beyond normal numbers. Darwin had 17 in day as did NSW. Ban the flights today.

hotel quarantine can cope, we have had around 500,000 people return to Australia and go through the system over the last year. Yes there have been outbreaks but due to incompetence or people breaking the rules. This could happen with any form of dedicated quarantine camps.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...9-landing.html

Tucknroll 26th Apr 2021 22:35


Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist (Post 11034409)
And it’s people who believe this that are holding the country back.

What a load of rubbish. It’s like taking aviation advice from the “experts” you hear from in the paper.

If you had any insight into our CHOs you wouldn’t sleep at night. They’re not in the position because of great medical skills or knowledge!

I’ve read the bios, I’ve heard their advice. It all sounds pretty reasonable. The reason that there is variation state to state is because the resources and demographics of each state vary wildly.

So, scepticaloptimist you seem to be sharing some really great insights into the management of COVID-19. Care to give us a quick run down of your qualifications to do so? Where did you study medicine and virology? Or your MPH? Or are you one of these great people who have ‘educated themselves’ and now know more in one years’ worth of light internet reading than the world’s leading authorities on the subject?

kiwi grey 27th Apr 2021 00:30

Building a Quarantine camp
 

Originally Posted by ExtraShot (Post 11033988)
We don’t need to use abandoned mining camps. Also, Military facilities are deemed unsuitable due to their dormitory style accommodation... shared bathrooms, mess facilities, plus, 14 days confined to something smaller than a modern jail cell wouldn’t last long before people had human rights lawyers up the wazoo... (asylum seekers can wander around facilities fairly freely, so it’s not the same- and no I don’t think 14 days confined to a standard hotel room is much better).

It would have to be $50-100 million for a brand new Howard Springs style facility within 100km of each capital city (or toowoomba or Avalon as previously proposed). 1 bedroom with en-suite and kitchen granny flat demountables... Space for an aeromed chopper to land on site will have people at capital city hospitals in short time.

Could be completed in 3-4 months if we’re truly on a ‘war footing’.

I doubt that very much.
You are talking about building a small township for a thousand or more transients* in quarantine, plus permanent staff.
Even assuming the Commonwealth decided to simply ignore any requirement for planning permissions, consultations with stakeholders, environmental impact statement, etc - and I think that would be political suicide - you still have to manage the infrastructure issues: roading, electricity, potable water and sewage treatment & disposal. Roading is almost trivial.
The Commonwealth will have to
  • negotiate with a lines company to add a point load of some megawatts into a network probably designed to handle a farm every kilometre or so, and then get them to design and build it.
  • find a source of potable water, negotiate a supply agreement with the owner and design & build a pipeline to your camp site, probably build an on-site reservoir to give a surge/emergency/firefighting supply too or design and build a complete water supply and treatment system.
  • conceptualise, then design and build, a sewage/wastewater treatment plant and outfall.
These are not off-the-shelf purchases, they take months and months and gobs of money to do.
And if the Commonwealth were to go through the normal planning processes, add at least another three to six months.

Sorry, this is at least a twelve to eighteen months' project.

* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

Dannyboy39 27th Apr 2021 03:16


Originally Posted by dysslexicgod (Post 11034424)
svhc:

Because perfect forgeries of the vaccination and medical certificates required by BorderForce will be available in Third world countries within hours of such a rash decision.

Don't you understand that the reason ScoMo won't let Australians leave the country is to avoid the charge of hypocrisy when he prohibited foreign arrivals?

Do you really want Australia to be swamped with Covid19 refugees?

....or are you just a pilot pining for their lost career?

You cannot tarnish everyone with the same brush. Evidence is becoming clearer and clearer every day:

1. The western vaccines provide strong protection against disease. They provide almost perfect protection against severe disease and death.
2. There is strong evidence that transmission is greatly reduced. And with less Covid doing the rounds, even more difficult to find someone with it.
3. They are still not accepting arrivals from high risk countries.
4. By mid Northern Hemisphere summer, the vast majority of western countries will hit herd immunity.

And to the last line, I say again: I’m amazed by the number of people on this forum who want to diminish their own industry or happy to take the money despite no one down the back paying your wages.

Global Aviator 27th Apr 2021 03:17

* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

So Howard Springs!

Keg 27th Apr 2021 03:20


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11034428)
Because people are getting way beyond fed up with lockdowns .

Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.

Dannyboy39 27th Apr 2021 03:33


Originally Posted by Global Aviator (Post 11034479)
* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

So Howard Springs!

Nof to berate scientists at all, but no scientist in any other country that I know of is talking about military camp quarantine rather than hotel quarantine. People are actually allowed to disagree with scientists - heck, disagreeing with each other is like a sport for them. They are going to go with the most conservative option because otherwise they are perceived to be liable.

WingNut60 27th Apr 2021 04:05


Originally Posted by Global Aviator (Post 11034479)
* If you are only going to take one planeload a week - A330 size, empty middle seats, say 150 SOB - and working on a sixteen day cycle (reception day, fourteen days quarantine, cleaning day) - you are going to need four hundred to four hundred and fifty beds. A thousand beds only gets you two flights a week, occasionally three. Daily flights, you're looking at two to two and a half thousand beds.

So Howard Springs!

Two and a half thousand beds is what Perth alone would need.
Plus some (??) accomodation for staff.

StudentInDebt 27th Apr 2021 04:07


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 11034482)
Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-release...-for-christmas well that all sounds pretty normal and just like things were in WA at the time....

WingNut60 27th Apr 2021 04:10


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 11034482)
Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.

And yet NSW businesses are complaining vehemently about the year-long and continuing impact on their turn-over.
And every TV newsclip shows Sydney siders walking around masked.

Why is that then? Something doesn't add up.

Foxxster 27th Apr 2021 04:19


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 11034482)
Lockdown? What’s that? Haven’t had a city wide one let a state wide one in NSW since April/ May last year. 230K people on the northern beaches for a couple of weeks due a super spreader event just prior to Christmas is the extent of it. For those outside the northern beaches, life has been pretty normal since May last year.

I always found it interesting when talking to the staff at the hotel in Perth in early December who were under the impression that Sydney/ NSW/ ‘over east’ was in permanent form of lockdowns and harsh restrictions. They got a shock when I told them life was as normal for us as it was for them.... we just didn’t have an idiot Premier slamming the gate shut every time someone had a sniffle.

just had one in WA. Have been many in Queensland. Victoria had god knows how many last year especially. They affect not only people in those states but the whole country. People can’t make holiday plans or have their plans ruined at the last minute. Plus the economic cost.


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.