Teesside-2

[SWBKCB]

Are you even sure the South side has been given away?? The whole point of the project is to generate rental income which won't be possible if we don't own it

The southside is owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED which is owned by the airport and a company called TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL LAND LIMITED, which is owned by Martin Trevor CORNEY and Joseph Christopher MUSGRAVE

[Beafer]

The southside is owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED which is owned by the airport and a company called TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL LAND LIMITED, which is owned by Martin Trevor CORNEY and Joseph Christopher MUSGRAVE

Is the south side land all of the land south of the runway, or one or two fields? How many acres is it?
A map showing of the private company land would be helpful. :ok:

The private company details. Set up in 2019.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12352018

The directors:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12352018/officers

Filing history.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12352018/filing-history

[highwideandugly]

Goodness me..be on “ Have I got News for you” next😀😀 !

[N707ZS]

Is that why there's no aviation related industry over there.

[Beafer]

Goodness me..be on “ Have I got News for you” next😀😀 !

Will Ben be sat on the left side, or the right side on the show ;)

[Cautious Optimist]

Is that why there's no aviation related industry over there.
There is

[SWBKCB]

I think this is the area of the Southside - taken from Stockton Council planning docs

https://www.developmentmanagement.stockton.gov.uk/online-applications/files/EC7446E93C6DAF8CE348EFDABBEE0EBF/pdf/18_2023_FUL-APPROVED_S2592_1B-08-05B_-_APPROVED_PHASING_PLAN-2147477.pdf

[SWBKCB]

There is

Is that confirmed - I thought the layout was still flexible and there are provisions that would allow airside access, but no tenants and thus no final layout yet.

[Grumpy1]

The origional Peel plan for the development of the airport included the South Side site to generate rental income for the airport as suggested by Cautious Optimist.
Forgive me for being slow but now that the site has been given to Messers Corney and Musgrave I assume that if the project is ever completed then any income will go to them. In the circumstances, what is the benefit to the airport?
This is a genuine question as others who have asked similar questions of the mayor have been ignored and blocked. Similar response to enquiries about the process in which the the airport "lost" this asset.

[SWBKCB]

The origional Peel plan for the development of the airport included the South Side site to generate rental income for the airport as suggested by Cautious Optimist.
Forgive me for being slow but now that the site has been given to Messers Corney and Musgrave I assume that if the project is ever completed then any income will go to them. In the circumstances, what is the benefit to the airport?
This is a genuine question as others who have asked similar questions of the mayor have been ignored and blocked. Similar response to enquiries about the process in which the the airport "lost" this asset.

It appears to be a 50/50 split - certainly the Mayor has talked about rent from the Southside being used to return the airport to profit.

Peels original planing permission for the Southside had restrictions requiring a percentage of aviation use - this was eroded over the years. Didn't think there are any such conditions now.

[onion]

The southside is owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED which is owned by the airport and a company called TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL LAND LIMITED, which is owned by Martin Trevor CORNEY and Joseph Christopher MUSGRAVE

First of all that's not quite right. Teesside International Land Limited is actually owned by other companies!

The other area which I would query is does Teesside International Business Park Limited actually own the land? There is no reference to it and the company is Dormant with £4 in shareholder funds..... basically no assets.
Are we sure they own the land or is it a management vehicle for once the business park is up and running?

[SWBKCB]

Surely that will all be explained somewhere as a matter of public record? No?

[highwideandugly]

Anyone know if the three Jet 2 B737 aircraft are finished and ready for the summer season, 5 days away?

[N707ZS]

At a guess no as one isn't painted.

[s_insania]

Careful Grumpy..you will have s_insania coming after you too!

Ooh, look at me everyone, pathetic!!! :{:{

[HH6702]

Announcement of another base for Summer 2024 could it be MME

unlikely but could Ben pull this off

[Jamesair1]

I doubt whether Jet2 would want to dilute its own traffic at NCL and LBA

[Flying Hi]

I doubt whether Jet2 would want to dilute its own traffic at NCL and LBA
But what if , just what if LBA, not the largest airport in the UK, was now "full up" with Jet2 aircraft? Where then ? MME?

[pug]

But what if , just what if LBA, not the largest airport in the UK, was now "full up" with Jet2 aircraft? Where then ? MME?

Yes they’ll decide to use a small airport with a heavily constrained catchment area to run their expensive assets from, it’s not like there aren’t other airports that they don’t currently serve with access to much more people.

[N707ZS]

Yes they’ll decide to use a small airport with a heavily constrained catchment area to run their expensive assets from, it’s not like there aren’t other airports that they don’t currently serve with access to much more people.
If the price is right the catchment area could be huge. If people think they can save a few pounds they don't seem to mind driving hours to or from Scotland or across to Manchester.

[pug]

If the price is right the catchment area could be huge. If people think they can save a few pounds they don't seem to mind driving hours to or from Scotland or across to Manchester.

But it’s not because they have such a presence at Leeds and Newcastle they would inevitably just end up competing with themselves, and they haven’t arrived in the position they have done by taking such risks. Also, Jet2 are not a low cost operator these days, they are a Tour Operator with their own airline. So the argument that people will travel many miles to save a few quid is hardly sustainable is it, as it would suggest that people from Newcastle and Leeds would stop flying with Jet2 from NCL and LBA if Jet2 offer cheaper fares from MME.

In the future anything is possible, but given their growth strategy over the last 10 years I don’t see any signs right now that they intend on changing tack.

[SWBKCB]

So the argument that people will travel many miles to save a few quid is hardly sustainable is it, as it would suggest that people from Newcastle and Leeds would stop flying with Jet2 from NCL and LBA if Jet2 offer cheaper fares from MME.

Am I reading this right? Of course they would. There are already people traveling to Scotland and vice versa to avoid the peak fares in the respective school holiday peaks. Not sure why Jet2 would do it though.

[pug]

Am I reading this right? Of course they would. There are already people traveling to Scotland and vice versa to avoid the peak fares in the respective school holiday peaks. Not sure why Jet2 would do it though.

Well if they are doing that, how does it make it a lucrative proposition? Think you have completely missed the point.

Jet2 being profitable from LBA and NCL due high yields, suddenly Jet2 decide to also open a base at MME which invariable costs a lot of money and starts undercutting their high yield flights from LBA and NCL by offering cheaper fares from MME - which they apparently need to do to attract people from Scotland or something, presumably because the core catchment area is actually very small in the bigger scheme of things so they can’t rely on the good people of Middlesborough or Darlington to fill the seats.

I do hope if you run a business, you don’t run it like that.

[SWBKCB]

Sorry we are at cross purposes - if Jet2 offered cheaper fares from MME than LBA/NCL, yes they would draw passengers from LBA and NCL, but I agree with you that Jet2 would be daft to do it. There is a small market that will always chose MME if flights are available because of its location and ease of use, but I can't see that being large enough to sustain a base and would be a significant change from their current approach.

[highwideandugly]

Lots of sensible comments..who knows…does Teesside have the infrastructure to have a based 1/2 aircraft,parking already at a premium due stored and maintenance aircraft.

Is more apron space required?

And as an aside..could the Spa handle more passengers😀 !

[pug]

Sorry we are at cross purposes - if Jet2 offered cheaper fares from MME than LBA/NCL, yes they would draw passengers from LBA and NCL, but I agree with you that Jet2 would be daft to do it. There is a small market that will always chose MME if flights are available because of its location and ease of use, but I can't see that being large enough to sustain a base and would be a significant change from their current approach.

I agree, there is a level of demand at all airports in the U.K. the problem is that in most cases it is not scaleable enough to be able to support a 3-4 based aircraft setup, which is typically what the Jet2s and easyJet’s seem to use as a benchmark of viability these days. As with all things this could change, but we can only go off the trends and not the could dos and so in that sense MME is a non-starter. W-patterns do not fit well into their operation either so that is currently unlikely.

[oldart]

I seem to remember a few years ago that there was a discussion about the size of the MME catchment area, maybe bigger now. So what has happened to all the people that used to fly from MME, would they come back if the destinations were resumed? For me it was a joy to walk through the front door and a short walk to the aircraft, now with the better security equipment which is a lot more better experience for passengers.

[P330]

Well if they are doing that, how does it make it a lucrative proposition? Think you have completely missed the point.

Jet2 being profitable from LBA and NCL due high yields, suddenly Jet2 decide to also open a base at MME which invariable costs a lot of money and starts undercutting their high yield flights from LBA and NCL by offering cheaper fares from MME - which they apparently need to do to attract people from Scotland or something, presumably because the core catchment area is actually very small in the bigger scheme of things so they can’t rely on the good people of Middlesborough or Darlington to fill the seats.

I do hope if you run a business, you don’t run it like that.

I think you are right on impacting their LBA/NCL flights if they serve MME. I suspect though the maths are more complicated.

A lot of MME potential people will also be travelling North to fly Ryanair or TUI. If Jet2 want to capture these, do they stand a better chance basing aircraft here or adding capacity at NCL?

I’m sure the finance folks know all the answers….

Serving smaller bases would be a deviation though from the current model. Unless they plan to serve those sites from new overseas bases or begin w routes.

[pug]

I think you are right on impacting their LBA/NCL flights if they serve MME. I suspect though the maths are more complicated.

A lot of MME potential people will also be travelling North to fly Ryanair or TUI. If Jet2 want to capture these, do they stand a better chance basing aircraft here or adding capacity at NCL?

I’m sure the finance folks know all the answers….

Serving smaller bases would be a deviation though from the current model. Unless they plan to serve those sites from new overseas bases or begin w routes.

Dont know, we can only go off what is in the public domain and the trends of growth seen in recent years. Cost a lot to set up a base, you have to question whether it would have any strategic benefit significant enough to justify the investment. My guess is it wouldn’t, otherwise they probably would have done so back when they were a Northern airline.

[N707ZS]

Teesside no longer has buildings to provide based catering and support for such a venture. These would all have to be built along with parking areas.

[Beatts]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-65264092

[Beafer]

The Mayor is now being asked for guarantees from large companies regarding contracts.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/ben-houchen-says-teesworks-investors-26836243

Part of the Press quote:The Tees Valley Mayor said investors are “unduly concerned” after BP and Equinor reportedly demanded the freeport guarantee it was not involved in corruption.

On Wednesday, The Telegraph reported that BP and Equinor are understood to have asked for clauses to be added into commercial contracts with Teesworks.

It is understood this could mean damages could be paid out if the position set out in the warranty was not true. Net Zero Teesside Power, which is aiming to be the UK’s first fully integrated commercial-scale gas-fired power station with carbon capture, is currently in the running for government funding. It is a joint venture between BP and Equinor and will be based at the freeport.

It is thought that Teesworks have confirmed that the site’s assets have not been acquired due to an “unacceptable act”. It is also understood the warranties state: “Nor have they hidden or dissimulated, and will not hide or dissimulate the nature origin, location, disposition, or ownership of assets, rights or values.”

The Labour MP has called for a full investigation into the “industrial-scale corruption", he alleges is occurring at the freeport. Originally, the South Tees Development Corporation held 50% of the shares in Teesworks Limited and private developers, JC Musgrave Capital and Northern Land Management Ltd held the other 50%.

However, an agreement was reached in 2021 which means JC Musgrave Capital, Northern Land Management Ltd, and DCS Industrial Limited now hold 90%. Teesside businessman Chris Musgrave OBE is the director of JC Musgrave, while DCS Industrial Limited has Mr Musgrave and Martin Corney at the helm.

[highwideandugly]

Muddy waters..and I don’t just mean the Tees Freeport dredging scheme!

See one of the Jet 2 overhaul aircraft is ‘pinging’ on Flight Radar..possibly getting ready for delivery?

[N707ZS]

Again nothing to do with the airport.

[SWBKCB]

Again nothing to do with the airport.

Apart from Musgrave and Corney's previously documented involvement with the Southside.

[N707ZS]

I ventured to the Southside this morning passed the rows of digger drivers with their feet up reading papers and the occasional activity moving a pile of dirt from A to B and back again. They have laid the first layer of tarmac and then laid mud into that, the top coast is really going to stick. I wonder which Christmas it will be finished by.

[Grumpy1]

It must be of concern to the airport that the mayor appears to have now gained such a reputation that commentators and the press now appear comfortable in using words like corruption.
In the last couple of weeks he claimed that the airport would close if Labour did well in the elections but this appears to have had no basis in fact. He is engaged in litigation with Teesport so are we are entitled to ask if the mayors continued involvement in the airport project is now causing damage?

[GrahamK]

I notice there is an A330 due in from Sweden tomorrow, any idea why? Wouldn't think Willis did maintenance on widebodies at MME?

[SWBKCB]

I notice there is an A330 due in from Sweden tomorrow, any idea why? Wouldn't think Willis did maintenance on widebodies at MME?

Military charter - another thing that's been happening on and off for years.

[Grumpy1]

First of two this week

[N707ZS]

The Gulf Wars and Bosnia boosted the airport figures when they were on and don't forget Teesside is the nearest civil airport to Europe's largest army barracks.

In the days of the British army in Germany there used to be a weekly summer families Viscount aircraft flight to Munster.

[mmeteesside]

Looks like Ryanair have started loading their winter schedules. No change here with Alicante staying twice a week - Mon & Thu - through the winter.

[Gunfighter52]

Teesside Airport Movements (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/Masterplan/Masterplan.htm)

[SWBKCB]

Quite a bit of new stuff in here, in particuar the massive new apron east of the current cargo facility (which is mislabelled on the display), and the terminal extension. Train station seems to disappear?

I'd also question the comments "Unique airside access" (my understanding is this isn't a given on the southside, but will be demand led) and the "central location for national and global connectivity" - though it is nice to have global connectiivty back in the conversation, it's been a while

[N707ZS]

Its different from any other plans even the ones a few weeks ago that showed the two new 727/757 hangars. The eastern parking apron would be most welcome at the moment.

[highwideandugly]

As the Freeport funding and sell off details, reach fever pitch!! no doubt questions will be asked about the funding for this too?
Will it come from airport profits or TVDC or government or private?

Very impressive though!

[AirportPlanner1]

More trouble brewing for the Mayor though. He’s said the Labour MP for Middlesbrough lied in Parliament and went on to say Private Eye published lies.

The problem is, Private Eye responded with the proof.

[Beafer]

Press reporting that Musgrave has just bought the Judges hotel down the road from the airport.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/judges-hotel-snapped-up-teesside-26892258

[N707ZS]

Beafer, Mayor Ben says there's no corruption so it must be true.

[N707ZS]

A bit of good Airport New.
Flying High: North East airport named as second most punctual in UK (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/flying-high-north-east-airport-named-as-second-most-punctual-in-uk/ar-AA1b53dS?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=87225321014444d48bc4f4510d4c0030&ei=8)

[SWBKCB]

Now take a look at the list of top 10 most punctual airports, and compare it to the list of top 10 busiest airports... :ok:

[onion]

Now take a look at the list of top 10 most punctual airports, and compare it to the list of top 10 busiest airports... :ok:

Well MME is busier than Cardiff, Bournemouth and Southampton where did they come in the punctuality table?

[Le Tirer]

Well MME is busier than Cardiff, Bournemouth and Southampton
??
2022 passenger figures from CAA:
Cardiff 859,805
Bournemouth 734,530
Southampton 631,438
Teesside 173,785

[onion]

??
2022 passenger figures from CAA:
Cardiff 859,805
Bournemouth 734,530
Southampton 631,438
Teesside 173,785

Aircraft movements in Feb 2023..... no one said under what criteria!
I would think movements and how busy airfields are with movements also has an impact on punctuality!

[pug]

Aircraft movements in Feb 2023..... no one said under what criteria!
I would think movements and how busy airfields are with movements also has an impact on punctuality!

It surely doesn’t need to be more than implied that the figures only apply to passenger carrying commercial air transport flights. I don’t think a 30 minute delay to a Draken F20 or a flying club PA28 would factor.

[BristolexFlyer]

Aircraft movements in Feb 2023..... no one said under what criteria!
I would think movements and how busy airfields are with movements also has an impact on punctuality!

oh please

🙄🙄🙄

[Le Tirer]

no one said under what criteria!

Admittedly you didn't say what criteria you were using but the Northern Echo were talking passenger numbers ......

"New figures from the Civil Aviation Authority revealed 2022 was the busiest year for more than a decade at Teesside, welcoming more than 173,000 passengers through its terminal – up more than 200% on the previous year. At the height of the summer season in July, it was named the most punctual, with delays of just 11 minutes and nearly half of all flights taking off early."

....... then you are comparing aircraft movements In February 2023 against punctuality in July 2022.

[onion]

Now take a look at the list of top 10 most punctual airports, and compare it to the list of top 10 busiest airports... :ok:

You all seem to miss I was challenging this post..... and yes punctuality can be effected by Falcons departing or recovering. What's the excuse for those airports I quoted for not being more punctual when they have less movements?

[Cautious Optimist]

More trouble brewing for the Mayor though. He’s said the Labour MP for Middlesbrough lied in Parliament and went on to say Private Eye published lies.

The problem is, Private Eye responded with the proof.
I haven't seen this proof with my own eyes but the Mayor is continuing to defend himself defiantly, praising both the Yorkshire Post and Teesside Gazette for "reporting the facts"

[highwideandugly]

Yorkshire post fighting back🤔

Great plans ahead!

Still not sure where the cash will come from though? Wonder if we will go through all those funding doubts again?

[Harold77]

CAA Airport Statistics.
March 2023

Terminal Passengers 12,928
Aircraft Movements 1,736

Aberdeen 1,706
Belfast 569
Cardiff 80
Amsterdam 7,077
Alicante 2,877
Faro 208
Palma 411

[Beafer]

Developments into who got what at the Tees Works site.

£45million drawn in dividends, without investing their own money!

If they do an audit of the Tees site, they will also look into the airport site, as its the same businessmen involved. :suspect:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23526836.cross-party-calls-review-teesworks-finances/

[SWBKCB]

16.30 - airport shut, lots of holding and L.159 diverted to NCL

[Beafer]

16.30 - airport shut, lots of holding and L.159 diverted to NCL

Might be due to FOD blowing across the runway, as the likely suspects may be shredding documents after hearing the government are launching an "Independent Investigation!"

Will they also look at the airport land disposal?

BBC news.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-65641660

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/government-launch-investigation-teessworks-following-26984242

:rolleyes: (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/government-launch-investigation-teessworks-following-26984242)

[highwideandugly]

Beafer..you excel yourself! That’s quite funny😀

Do we actually know what happened?

[highwideandugly]

Beafer..it was a hole in the runway..not shredded paper😀

Runway taking a battering with all the extra flights!

[Grumpy1]

Just imagine what could happen if there were passengers on those flights???

[SWBKCB]

Beafer..it was a hole in the runway..not shredded paper😀

Runway taking a battering with all the extra flights!

Wasn't the state of some of the taxiways an issue highlighted in last Masterplan from Peel?

[Grumpy1]

Shhhhh!. You are not allowed to mention the Peel Masterplan to develop the airport as we are all supposed to believe that there was a cunning plan by Peel and the Labour Party to close the airport and build houses until the knight in shining armour rode in and saved it......

[SWBKCB]

Shhhhh!. You are not allowed to mention the Peel Masterplan to develop the airport ad we are all supposed to believe that there was a cunning plan by Peel and the Labour Party to close the airport and build houses until the knight in shining armour rode in and saved it......

What, we aren't allowed to say that the two are very similar apart from our Ben's paln is funded using taxpayers money rather than the profits from housing on the landside part of the airport?

[Grumpy1]

Spot on. Building a few houses on spare land and access to the southside development via a link road around the 23 threshold rather than the expensive OTT new road that will take years to pay off. Not that it matters much any more as 90% of any profit will now go to a certain politicians financial supporters rather than to benefit the airport.

[N707ZS]

Grumpy1 they are quid's in as they haven't paid for the Southside road land. Guys have been sat around shifting dirt from A to B for the past year.

[highwideandugly]

Been a few closures recently due ATC levels…more to come according to Notams…..wonder if Mr.Mayor will mention that in his daily PR bulletins 😀

[Grumpy1]

The Mayor made several anouncements before the recent elections that the airport would be closed if Labour did well. On this group we know him well enough to understand that it was simply another of his tall tales but spreading these stories is undoubtedly an impediment to recruiting. He has also recently acknowledged that his fall from grace is now having an adverse affect on Teesworks and the Airport and calling a local MP a coward and a liar on Radio 4 this week but refusing to answer legitimate questions does not help the Airport.

[highwideandugly]

A friend on the Turkey flight’s mentioned the crew said ATC was closed and they had to sit on the aircraft for an hour before they could take off?
He said next time he flies KLM as they took off just before!!

[Beafer]

Beafer..it was a hole in the runway..not shredded paper😀

Runway taking a battering with all the extra flights!

That doesn't surprise me, as I was reliably informed years ago that the runway foundation was built using ash from the ICI works. The runway is sinking, but will be very expensive to replace.

Will Ben release that news with another photo oportunity? :oh:

[Grumpy1]

Will Ben release that news with another photo oportunity?


It he does he will probably make up one of his stories so that he can blame Peel.

[Cautious Optimist]

A friend on the Turkey flight’s mentioned the crew said ATC was closed and they had to sit on the aircraft for an hour before they could take off?
He said next time he flies KLM as they took off just before!!
The aircraft had a slot even before the closure, so ultimately the closure made no difference

[s_insania]

A friend on the Turkey flight’s mentioned the crew said ATC was closed and they had to sit on the aircraft for an hour before they could take off?
He said next time he flies KLM as they took off just before!!

Is your friend as boring as you or are you both as idiotic as each other?

[highwideandugly]

See the Aberdeen flight cancelled again today..what is going on.
From 3 flights per day at its high point, we now have intermittent cancellations on a once a day service…to what was once the best and most reliable Teesside direct flight.
Do Loganair actually care about this route? Eastern anyone!

Has the improved job creation on the Freeport, actually worked against the airport as more locals..get local jobs?
Similarly…have improvements in the local rail network and stations, hindered a Heathrow connection?

[Grumpy1]

Not sure there has been any job creation at the Freeport other than for demolition contractors. Lots of announcements but not sure there have been many if any perminant jobs.
The railways remain in a pickle with currently more train cancellations than ever. Not sure building a bridge at Hartlepool Station or putting a lift in at Billingham Station will impact the airport and the development at Darlington will make connections from Teesside a little less convenient.

[N707ZS]

Nothing so far.

[mmeman]

I am surprised that the posters that seem to mention everything about the Mayor have not mentioned a quote from one of his latest posts on Social Media - 'Watch this space for more destinations from our amazing airport soon'
anyone know anymore about what they could be?

[jorvik]

I am surprised that the posters that seem to mention everything about the Mayor have not mentioned a quote from one of his latest posts on Social Media - 'Watch this space for more destinations from our amazing airport soon'
anyone know anymore about what they could be?


Probable that no one believes him. Or it will be the winter ALC recycled as a new route.

Then again, I am cynical.

[N707ZS]

He hasn't mentioned that the bus service is to be cut off! The only public transport to the airport and the local villages.

[Grumpy1]

Problem is that the mayor has announced that there are more routes and destinations coming on numerous occasions previously but they have never materialised.

[onion]

He hasn't mentioned that the bus service is to be cut off! The only public transport to the airport and the local villages.
He has been talking about the bus issue.....
The TVCA sort the payments out with the bus companies but the councils have to agree to it which I believe they have.
Arriva though are the only bus company not to accept, and as such they will remove bus route that are supported by that payment.

[Grumpy1]

He has also claimed that Arriva is in the process of being sold which is one of the reasons for them ending routes. Seem to recall him making up a similar story about Loganair when trying to explain and justify them pulling out of MME and closing routes.

[P330]

I am surprised that the posters that seem to mention everything about the Mayor have not mentioned a quote from one of his latest posts on Social Media - 'Watch this space for more destinations from our amazing airport soon'
anyone know anymore about what they could be?

The word 'soon' suggests something is done, or nearly done. Not just a standard positive comment.

My guess is a return from Eastern (who seem to be adding to their random fleet at the moment) or a winter/all year Tenerife from Ryanair with Malaga also a possibility for next summer.

[SWBKCB]

Ryanair to Malaga and Tenerife look like no brainers

[Grumpy1]

But in early March he told us to "watch this space". Well we are still watching! How many times can you make these deliberately misleading announcements before starting to look very silly or perhaps even very disingenuous?

[N707ZS]

Grumpy1, in January he told me cargo flights by June and Antalya is to be CUT for Dalaman and not run both.

[highwideandugly]

This Freeport debacle is to go to an official (sic) inquiry ..the fear is the financial aspects of the airports development may raise its head?
I believe the same folk are involved?
Beafer may know more?

Not sure when the next update of the financial master plan is due..

Busy day yesterday..a lot of training.I often wonder what the financial worth to the airport is for crew training flights..anyone know?

[Harold77]

Every movement is extra income.

[N707ZS]

Am sure the basic figures for training are published by the airport with airlines and clubs possibly getting a discount.

[Cautious Optimist]

This Freeport debacle is to go to an official (sic) inquiry ..the fear is the financial aspects of the airports development may raise its head?
I believe the same folk are involved?
Beafer may know more?
I know you're itching for him to be guilty of something/anything, but given the Mayor himself requested the inquiry, it would be a very bold move if there is a scandal to be uncovered.

[FlyMME]

After the big song and dance made about the cargo facilities I thought we may have seen something more substantial than we have so far - fingers crossed there is more in the pipeline

[highwideandugly]

Think cargo figures are good inbound..but not so outbound?

[SWBKCB]

CAA stats for the first three months of the year report 1.942t of cargo. though I believe the small freight flights don't make it into the published stats. Believe it's most if not all Nissan related, has any of it gone through the cargo centre?

[Grumpy1]

The mayor fought hard to resist scrutiny or enquiry but only called for an investigation when it became clear that one was inevitable due to the demands of others. A good PR move.
The problem that he now has is that many will question the impartiality those appointed to run the enquiry so even if he is vindicated it may not be accepted my some, perhaps most. It seems that the terms of reference may not include the circumstances inwhich the airports assets have been handed to his associates.

[N707ZS]

A bit of old news but major Houchin has no interest in history, wildlife or fauna at the airport. Defiantly no money for a dig.
The historic wreckage that lies beneath Middleton St George | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20218978.historic-wreckage-lies-beneath-middleton-st-george/#comments-anchor)

[highwideandugly]

Oh no..not another rename!

The Sir Ben Houchin International Airport!….really got a ring to it!

[SWBKCB]

Would it not be Lord Houchen International?

[highwideandugly]

Lord,sir,lackey…..all the same….😀

Guess they will never keep up with changing the road sign posts then! 🤪

[Grumpy1]

Ben is a man with self respect. I am confident that he wil not accept a lordship from a former PM who had to resign in disgrace and is currently under investigation for dishonesty and while he is himself being investigated for corruption.

[highwideandugly]

Time will tell!

[onion]

I have seen remains of an air frame on the Southside years ago that had bee disturbed when they were doing some work. Must be about 25 years ago though. Probably the remains of the Wellington mentioned in the article.

[N707ZS]

The Wellington remains were looked after by a hangar 3 pilot and when the GA aircraft were kicked out the Wellington remains went in the scrap bin.

[highwideandugly]

Ryanair expansion on another thread..another Alicante for winter 23/24.

[s_insania]

Positive news, another 20k seats and another one in the face for the halfwits on this thread. Looking like another 30/40% increase on 2022’s passenger numbers if forecasts turn out as they should

Alicante flight times as follows for the Winter season.

Monday
1620-1820 ALC-MME
1845-2235 MME-ALC

Thursday
1440-1640 ALC-MME
1705-2055 MME-ALC

Sunday
0710-0910 ALC-MME
0935-1325 MME-ALC

[N707ZS]

A good start, we still need a winter sun destination.

[ted320]

A good start, we still need a winter sun destination.

Agreed, TFS would be appreciated.

[s_insania]

Teesside Airport - April 23 Passenger Figures

Terminal Passengers 17988 (+30% Apr22) (+40% Mar 23)
Aircraft Movements 1672

ABZ 1092 = 23/flt (51% LF) (-23% Apr22)
AMS 8101 = 60/flt (69% LF) (+233% Apr22)
ALC 3066 = 170/flt (88% LF) (+11% Apr22)
PMI 2522 = 140/flt (76% LF) (+24% Apr22)
FAO 2738 = 152/flt (80% LF) (+17.5% Apr22)

[highwideandugly]

Have the cargo figures been published yet?

Wonder if Eastern will return on the Aberdeen route now they are dropping Newcastle..again …!!

[SWBKCB]

Have the cargo figures been published yet?



No cargo in April according to the figures on the Teesside Movements website

[highwideandugly]

But do those figures count smaller amounts of freight in the holds of aircraft .
Sure I read somewhere the CAA only counted large(ish) amounts?

Also a license has been granted to import fresh fruit/flowers etc.

[N707ZS]

There has only been one Hungarian ATR-42 recently, quite sure car parts again so no new freight generated ZERO! A rumour recently was that the airport has given the cargo shed/hangar to Draken.

[SWBKCB]

But do those figures count smaller amounts of freight in the holds of aircraft .
Sure I read somewhere the CAA only counted large(ish) amounts?

Also a license has been granted to import fresh fruit/flowers etc.

The Teesside Movements websites figures are always higher than the CAA stats, so I assume that their figures cover everything.

[P330]

Looks like the Thursday Bulgaria flight now is peak only….starting late July.

[Harold77]

The CAA stats only count freight carried in an aircraft over a certain weight.

[s_insania]

Looks like the Thursday Bulgaria flight now is peak only….starting late July.

That was the case last year too, so nothing to see here

[jorvik]

That was the case last year too, so nothing to see here


But next year it’s back to once a week, so there is something to see…

[P330]

But next year it’s back to once a week, so there is something to see…

And I’m sure the Thursday flight was due to start in June (backed up by the movements website) so feels like something has changed.

[highwideandugly]

Sure I read somewhere that Balkan were cutting back in 2024.Stopping Bristol and a couple of others?
Maybe reductions in flights starting a bit earlier?

I know there have been heavy discounts advertised on the TIA Facebook pages recently?

[N707ZS]

Bulgaria is supposed to be the in place to go as the Spanish are cracking down on British behaviour abroad.

[highwideandugly]

Found it! The other Airport was Stansted.

The press release states they are concentrating on smaller airports with no competition.Southend,Newquay and Southampton are mentioned.
Not sure about the competition from Teesside?…unless they mean Leeds and Newcastle?

[JKKne]

Bulgaria is supposed to be the in place to go as the Spanish are cracking down on British behaviour abroad.

I remember hearing this in the early 90s, late 90s, 00s and so and so forth.

Benidorm is dead, Sunny Beach will rule the world and it just doesn’t happen. Whilst some Spanish resorts are looking to adapt to meet a different type of clientele, there’s plenty of Spain to go around

[FlyMME]

Houchen has confirmed on a hospital radio interview new routes to be announced in September / October. Can only imagine more bucket and spade types to Tenerife/Malaga?

Also hinted at scheduled cargo services in the future too.

[N707ZS]

Houchen has confirmed on a hospital radio interview new routes to be announced in September / October. Can only imagine more bucket and spade types to Tenerife/Malaga?

Also hinted at scheduled cargo services in the future too.
Unfortunately he's said all of that before, lets hope second, third time lucky.

[FlyMME]

Unfortunately he's said all of that before, lets hope second, third time lucky.

He did seem more specific this time - said the routes were already agreed but was not allowed to say anything more until they went on sale on September/October.

[Grumpy1]

Agree that this time it's a little more precise but he has told us several times previously that there would be an announcement at a certain time and then we hear nothing. Not even an apology for making a mislead statement.
Sadly, most have learnt that his pronouncements cannot be trusted but we can only live in hope so fingers crossed.

[highwideandugly]

I always wonder why the Mayor of the Tees Valley gets involved with all this PR stuff..should the airport not have a specialist department to deal and hunt out new opportunities..or is it in his remit?
He’s busy advertising job vacancies in ATC at the moment also🤔

Reported previously that the second Balkan and one of the Turkish flights are being chopped for next year…so need at least two new routes to replace.. I fancy an extra Alicante 🤪

[P330]

I always wonder why the Mayor of the Tees Valley gets involved with all this PR stuff..should the airport not have a specialist department to deal and hunt out new opportunities..or is it in his remit?
He’s busy advertising job vacancies in ATC at the moment also🤔

Reported previously that the second Balkan and one of the Turkish flights are being chopped for next year…so need at least two new routes to replace.. I fancy an extra Alicante 🤪

We already have a new Turkish route replacing the old one. Agree on Bulgaria, but remember it was only peak anyway the one that is dropped.

[N707ZS]

The current Turkish route is supposedly doing very well, why get rid of it.

[highwideandugly]

Not saying get rid!..Turkey very popular this year..cost of living over there definitely works in UK favour..Shame one had to go for the other?
Not sure about Bulgaria prices…but cuts at other airports also.

[s_insania]

The current Turkish route is supposedly doing very well, why get rid of it.

Dalaman was always the one most popular with Teessiders, was it 3 flights on a Thursday with Onur Air back in the day? Shame that TUI are replacing Antalya for it, why not run both

[barry lloyd]

Dalaman was always the one most popular with Teessiders, was it 3 flights on a Thursday with Onur Air back in the day? Shame that TUI are replacing Antalya for it, why not run both

Probably has more to do with hotel availability than anything else. Turkey is one of the few countries where Russians can holiday these days...

[JonnyH]

I’ve heard from a friend based around Teesside that there’s a good chance 2 new routes will be added with Ryanair next year from MME. Malaga is one and another in the Canaries.

How true and feasible it is, time will tell, but it’s good that Ryanair are openly interested in expanding at Teeside.

[SWBKCB]

They've probably been reading this thread... :ok:

[JonnyH]

They've probably been reading this thread... :ok:

No, he works at the airport. I didn’t even see the comments above to be honest but at least they add some substance to the ‘rumours’.

[N707ZS]

I’ve heard from a friend based around Teesside that there’s a good chance 2 new routes will be added with Ryanair next year from MME. Malaga is one and another in the Canaries.
These need to be added for Winter 2023 and not an extra Alicante.

[N707ZS]

Looks like the Arriva bus route from Darlington has been saved.

[Cautious Optimist]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/north-east-construction-firm-build-27240222

Note the Oil Spill Response livery has been digitally removed

[N707ZS]

Not the new Willis hangars then. Any sign of plans?

[highwideandugly]

Anyone know if there is a problem with the remaining Jet 2 737…it’s been on the apron an awful long time…going to miss the summer season at this rate🤔

[N707ZS]

Its in the hangar and it looks very nice.

[Harold77]

Strategic Airlift Capability C17 Globemaster 08-0001 visited this afternoon.

[N707ZS]

We have seen numerous artists drawings and press releases but can anyone find a link to planning permissions for the new hangar.

[Convair 440]

We have seen numerous artists drawings and press releases but can anyone find a link to planning permissions for the new hangar.
The only valid planning application on Darlington Borough Council planning site is
the 5no hangars for Willises aviation Village awaiting a decision
there is no other hangar planning application

[N707ZS]

Not to be picky but you would have thought they would have got the plans in if they are saying finished in eight months.

[Convair 440]

Not to be picky but you would have thought they would have got the plans in if they are saying finished in eight months.

The Willis Aviation Village planning application was validated on 27 October 2022 8 months ago and is still awaiting a decision

[Harold77]

The only valid planning application on Darlington Borough Council planning site is
the 5no hangars for Willises aviation Village awaiting a decision
there is no other hangar planning application

Don't forget to check Stockton Planning Department. As the Airport sits in two counties and I think this new hangar sits on Stockton side.

[SWBKCB]

I thought the same but can't see anything on the Stockton site

[Convair 440]

Don't forget to check Stockton Planning Department. As the Airport sits in two counties and I think this new hangar sits on Stockton side.
the news report stated the hangar was to be built on the North side of the airport which comes
under Darlington Council

[N707ZS]

The hangar site is in Darlington as the border runs through the fire station and between the Alpha taxiway and the runway.

[s_insania]

The Willis Aviation Village planning application was validated on 27 October 2022 8 months ago and is still awaiting a decision

No it isn’t, Willis Village was granted permission on the 3rd March. There’s a document in the planning portal from the council

[N707ZS]

I thought the Willis plan had been granted. If the new hangars are anything like hangar 2 the facility is going to be fantastic.

[Convair 440]

No it isn’t, Willis Village was granted permission on the 3rd March. There’s a document in the planning portal from the council
Oh yes it is ìt has been granted in principle subject to 41 conditions with the the extended decision date
to 3 September 2023 for approval to complete the section 106 agreement process there is document in the planning portal from the council dated 3rd March
2023 to verify this so still awaiting final approval

[teej013]

Link for "Proposed aviation village"

https://publicaccess.darlington.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=RKF1Q4FPJB600

The document referred to is the "DRAFT DECISION NOTICE" Published on 03 MAR 2023.

[N707ZS]

I see the NIMBYs have sent in objections. They have all bought ex RAF houses knowing they were near an airfield.

[P330]

Big picture - airport on track for another growth year with indications being next year will be bigger still in terms of passenger numbers.

But at the risk of sounding like our forum co-buddy ‘high wide’, even I am shocked that on a July day, there are just two flights today, one each to Aberdeen and Amsterdam!

The loss of those Eastern/Loganair’s is having a big impact on the movements (if not the passenger numbers).

[Grumpy1]

Some are trying to talk up monthly passenger numbers approaching only 20,000 per month in the hight of summer but they do the airport no service by refusing to acknowledge how bad this actually is.
The huge investment in the airport was justified on the basis that the target was 1.4m passengers per year (significantly over 100,000 per month in the summer!) with 50% of passengers on scheduled flights benefiting the region, not simply crappy bucket and spade holiday flights. We seem to be making no progress towards that target and our neighbours are leaving us behind again.

[Beafer]

Airport news. The 2 special friends will be happy ;)

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/first-steel-erected-teesside-airport-27325204

[Grumpy1]

Funny how the press handouts from the mayors office never seem to mention that 90% of our asset has been gifted to his best friends and imply that the airport will benefit.

[pug]

Funny how the press handouts from the mayors office never seem to mention that 90% of our asset has been gifted to his best friends and imply that the airport will benefit.

Pardon my ignorance, but wasn’t this business park part of the Peel master plan on the proviso that they build houses on some of the non critical land surrounding the airport to help subsidise the ongoing running costs?

Meanwhile we learn that just throwing money at the problem isn’t the answer when it comes to small regional airports, as the airlines you’re trying to attract still go to the competition and pay more in the process.

[P330]

Some are trying to talk up monthly passenger numbers approaching only 20,000 per month in the hight of summer but they do the airport no service by refusing to acknowledge how bad this actually is.
The huge investment in the airport was justified on the basis that the target was 1.4m passengers per year (significantly over 100,000 per month in the summer!) with 50% of passengers on scheduled flights benefiting the region, not simply crappy bucket and spade holiday flights. We seem to be making no progress towards that target and our neighbours are leaving us behind again.

Direction of travel is what is important. And that direction is positive. Business plans from years ago should be taken with some scepticism today, not for any malevolent reason, but simply because that was years ago and the world has changed. Anyone who has ever written a budget or a business plan knows it is out of date on day one. With passengers numbers up and non-passenger activities also heading in the right direction, this is a good news story. Whether we will ever get to the dizzy heights of the predictions previously made, only time will tell.

What I do think is worth a mention Grumpy is your point on leisure v business. Houchen was adamant that this was about business flights of benefit to the whole region and not bucket and spade. Any sun routes were a bonus. It is now interesting that we are heavily reliant on sun routes for our traffic and much of that is with an airline who have a history of walking away with little notice. I'm not saying that is wrong, but it is very different to the original plan. To be fair, I could never see a market even then for domestic flying in our increasingly environmentally aware world, so maybe plans have simply evolved.

I don't ever see us getting to 1.4m without a based operator and that doesn't seem likely in the next year or two.

So, whilst the departure board looks sickly today, at least we're alive to 'feel sick' and we're much healthier this year than last.

[pug]

Direction of travel is what is important. And that direction is positive. Business plans from years ago should be taken with some scepticism today, not for any malevolent reason, but simply because that was years ago and the world has changed. Anyone who has ever written a budget or a business plan knows it is out of date on day one. With passengers numbers up and non-passenger activities also heading in the right direction, this is a good news story. Whether we will ever get to the dizzy heights of the predictions previously made, only time will tell.

What I do think is worth a mention Grumpy is your point on leisure v business. Houchen was adamant that this was about business flights of benefit to the whole region and not bucket and spade. Any sun routes were a bonus. It is now interesting that we are heavily reliant on sun routes for our traffic and much of that is with an airline who have a history of walking away with little notice. I'm not saying that is wrong, but it is very different to the original plan. To be fair, I could never see a market even then for domestic flying in our increasingly environmentally aware world, so maybe plans have simply evolved.

I don't ever see us getting to 1.4m without a based operator and that doesn't seem likely in the next year or two.

So, whilst the departure board looks sickly today, at least we're alive to 'feel sick' and we're much healthier this year than last.

All very true, but is it sustainable? He’s committed millions to the project, admittedly he has a mandate to do so but if it continues to be a dead weight and burden to the people who pay for it it puts it at high risk when the Mayor goes off and does something else or is voted out. Surely a more conservative approach to the core business is necessary to ensure that losses are at least manageable and justifiable - I.e keeping KLM as that has a wider regional economic benefit.

Seems a base by anyone is highly unlikely at any time given the proximity of competitor airports.

[SKOJB]

The airport has bob and no hope of attracting those types of passenger numbers, simply pie in the sky as NCL and LBA will continue to cream off the majority of traffic. MME only real lifeline is to continue to attract non pax commercial ventures like Willis, Draken, 2Excel etc!

[SWBKCB]

Pardon my ignorance, but wasn’t this business park part of the Peel master plan on the proviso that they build houses on some of the non critical land surrounding the airport to help subsidise the ongoing running costs?

Meanwhile we learn that just throwing money at the problem isn’t the answer when it comes to small regional airports, as the airlines you’re trying to attract still go to the competition and pay more in the process.

Yes, the only difference is it is now being funded by taxpayers money rather than the profits from the proposed housing. And the change in ownership, of course.

And yes, the 'global connectivity' argument seems to have disappeared ('no inward investment if you can't fly here'), the only schedules are those that lasted through the Peel years.

[Grumpy1]

Good points made. So was the business plan just a politicians fantasy? Willis, Draken and 2Excel will not be impressed by the masive investment and income from the South Side has been given away but we are still losing over £1 million per month. We will never approach a break even point with passenger numbers of only 20,000 per month or even two or three times that number so is it not time to be honest and stop pretending that these figures are in any way encouraging?

[SWBKCB]

Doubt that Willis, Draken and 2Excel have anything to moan about.

[pug]

Good points made. So was the business plan just a politicians fantasy? Willis, Draken and 2Excel will not be impressed by the masive investment and income from the South Side has been given away but we are still losing over £1 million per month. We will never approach a break even point with passenger numbers of only 20,000 per month or even two or three times that number so is it not time to be honest and stop pretending that these figures are in any way encouraging?

You probably can at least make a manageable loss on the smaller passenger numbers offset by other business on site, but I expect the reason Peel stopped hosting 737 sized aircraft was because it’s expensive to handle them in isolation and there weren’t enough movements to justify the cost of doing so. All about critical mass these days and the old times of having 30+ non-based charter flights per week in peak season are long over.

[Harold77]

CAA Monthly Airport Statistics for May 2023.

Terminal Passengers: 21,464
Aircraft Movements: 2,129
Cargo: 1 Tonne

Aberdeen 1,065
Alicante 3,156
Amsterdam 8,745
Faro 2,927
Palma 4,053
Jersey 266
Antalya 180
Bourgas 179

Lourdes 377
Tallinn 333
Jonkoping 50
Arvidsjaur 42
Sondre Stromfjord 91

[highwideandugly]

Usual back of fag packet workings show an average of 358 departing passengers per day.

And with reference to the previous posts regarding the split between business and pleasure…shows 145 business passengers departing on average per day

[N707ZS]

Airport news. The 2 special friends will be happy ;)

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/first-steel-erected-teesside-airport-27325204
Is it a speculative construction or is there a customer for this building. If speculative this building could have been built anywhere instead of a location that could be used for aviation.

[P330]

Big picture - airport on track for another growth year with indications being next year will be bigger still in terms of passenger numbers.

But at the risk of sounding like our forum co-buddy ‘high wide’, even I am shocked that on a July day, there are just two flights today, one each to Aberdeen and Amsterdam!

The loss of those Eastern/Loganair’s is having a big impact on the movements (if not the passenger numbers).

Cancel that, the Aberdeen cancelled. So, 1 passenger flight all day - to Amsterdam at 6am.

[N707ZS]

Has anyone seen plans for the building being built on the South side. Should be Stockton council planning.

[SWBKCB]

It should be in this lot

https://www.developmentmanagement.stockton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=R6MES7PK00900

[N707ZS]

A maze of information. I did spot the environmental study. This was performed after the ground had been graded by machines. Picture page 16.
22_0271_FUL-ECOLOGICAL_APPRAISAL-2395604.pdf (stockton.gov.uk) (https://www.developmentmanagement.stockton.gov.uk/online-applications/files/836C946B3BB1AF3CB1A769D8FCB4BA32/pdf/22_0271_FUL-ECOLOGICAL_APPRAISAL-2395604.pdf)

[SWBKCB]

Does anybody know whether the proposed SAF plant has any connection with the airport, other than Willis being involved and the end use of the product?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/plan-first-sustainable-aviation-fuel-27339692

[N707ZS]

No idea. Cannot see them building the plant on the Southside.

The cargo figures for July should be good with the latest Nissan flights. We can thank Brexit for something for once.

[Harold77]

I have feeling it is more than likely going to be built on Seal Sands along with the following.

Alfanar £1.5bn plant.
Greenergy two plants one aviation one marine.
Willis £200m plant, presume will be on Seal Sands.

Over at Wilton
Nova Pangea (102 million litres per year to go to British Airways)

[SWBKCB]

No idea. Cannot see them building the plant on the Southside.

The cargo figures for July should be good with the latest Nissan flights. We can thank Brexit for something for once.

How does Brexit come into it? At a guess more to do with summer plant shutdowns.

[SWBKCB]

I have feeling it is more than likely going to be built on Seal Sands along with the following.

Alfanar £1.5bn plant.
Greenergy two plants one aviation one marine.
Willis £200m plant, presume will be on Seal Sands.

Over at Wilton
Nova Pangea (102 million litres per year to go to British Airways)

I agree, but does anybody know?

[N707ZS]

How does Brexit come into it? At a guess more to do with summer plant shutdowns.
The mess at Dover where the imports come through.

[Harold77]

I agree, but does anybody know?

I'm fairly sure more details will be revealed in the coming weeks/ months.

[Grumpy1]

"How does Brexit come into it? At a guess more to do with summer plant shutdowns"

Nissan along with other motor manufacturers made it clear that there businesses were not sustainable when outside of the EU so Boris agreed to fund Nissan's post-Brexit shortfall. Pre-Brexit, there were few backlogs at the ports but this is not now the case so just in-time deliveries are flown to NCL or MME as they always have been to some extent. Boris was to embarrassed to disclose how much the taxpayer was paying Nisan to remain in the UK but those in logistics say that the taxpayer is also funding these flights as thay are a consequence of Brexit.

[Grumpy1]

I'm fairly sure more details will be revealed in the coming weeks/ months.

So far there have been a dozen businesses with thousands of jobs that the mayor has anounced as going to Teesworks but have gone elsewhere and were probably never coming, so dont hold your breath as there is a chance it may just get quietly forgotten about like the others.

[highwideandugly]

Yeh ..but that’s a lot of revenue…landing fees etc. ..maybe not in tonnes.

I’m still confused as to why they are using the airport when Newcastle is nearer and has dealt with these flights for years previously?

Lack of staff and desire at Newcastle or massive subsidies at Teesside?

[Cautious Optimist]

I'm fairly sure more details will be revealed in the coming weeks/ months.

So far there have been a dozen businesses with thousands of jobs that the mayor has anounced as going to Teeswork but have gone elsewhere and were probably never coming, so dont hold your breath as there is a chance it may just get quietly forgotten about like the others.
A news piece yesterday by the Mayor claims Teesworks is almost full after just 18 months

[Cautious Optimist]

Yeh ..but that’s a lot of revenue…landing fees etc. ..maybe not in tonnes.

I’m still confused as to why they are using the airport when Newcastle is nearer and has dealt with these flights for years previously?

Lack of staff and desire at Newcastle or massive subsidies at Teesside?
In the past, they've been split 50/50 between us and NCL and they've been much shorter series, now they are more frequent and we're enjoying 100% of them.

Newcastle is only nearer to Sunderland as the crow flies, the setup of the road network makes Teesside faster to get to. The best example I can think of of this is Ellis Short when he owned Sunderland FC, by sheer fluke he flew into us with a shooting party during hunting season, didn't realise MME existed before then, and is said to have vowed not to use NCL again. For a long time he appeared to be true to his word although I believe he returned there towards the end of his tenure.

[TartinTon]

In the past, they've been split 50/50 between us and NCL and they've been much shorter series, now they are more frequent and we're enjoying 100% of them.

Newcastle is only nearer to Sunderland as the crow flies, the setup of the road network makes Teesside faster to get to. The best example I can think of of this is Ellis Short when he owned Sunderland FC, by sheer fluke he flew into us with a shooting party during hunting season, didn't realise MME existed before then, and is said to have vowed not to use NCL again. For a long time he appeared to be true to his word although I believe he returned there towards the end of his tenure.

Rubbish. 28 mins NCL to Nissan Sunderland vs 43 mins MME to Nissan Sunderland.

[Cautious Optimist]

Just something I've heard several times before 🤷‍♂️

[N707ZS]

Teesside has three of the four Vulcanair AN26Bs parked up by this morning.

[P330]

Teesside has three of the four Vulcanair AN26Bs parked up by this morning.

Are they all on Nissan charters?

[Harold77]

Five cargo flights in from Ostrava today.

[N707ZS]

Shame there's no spare IL76s about.

[Harold77]

Airport reporting twenty three tonnes of cargo this week.

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/teesside-airport-hails-best-week-for-cargo-as-holidaymakers-set-to-break-records

[N707ZS]

Strange the cargo has been going straight from the plane to 7 ton trucks as it has always done and gone nowhere near the "white elephant" cargo building. And its nowhere near the record when Nissan had the engine problem way back.

[Harold77]

The airport hasn't said the cargo has broke records. It does say that it will be most passengers handled in a single day since it was purchased in 2019, hence breaking record.

[N707ZS]

Passenger numbers must be on the up Harold, its great to see 4 737s flights on a Saturday.

[SWBKCB]

It's a bit like how football didn't exist before the Premier League...

[GrahamK]

If it helps , the Emirates 777 probably carries more cargo than all these ATRs and Metroliners etc in one go.

Good to see MME thriving though 😀

[onion]

If it helps , the Emirates 777 probably carries more cargo than all these ATRs and Metroliners etc in one go.

Good to see MME thriving though 😀

Not quite, 777 will carry, dependent on sector length and pax numbers somewhere between 16t and 19t on average.

Not sure why we need the Emirates comparison though!

[SWBKCB]

Not quite, 777 will carry, dependent on sector length and pax numbers somewhere between 16t and 19t on average.

Not sure why we need the Emirates comparison though!

Down to Highwide's meanderings about Machiavellian goings on and Deep State intervention in cargo charters...

[Jamesair1]

just adds a bit of perspective

[Hipennine]

Rubbish. 28 mins NCL to Nissan Sunderland vs 43 mins MME to Nissan Sunderland.
Objectively, the difference in time argument (if that important with a 17 minute difference) should be wheels down to factory gate. How do freight processing times at MME compare with NCL? 28 minutes on the road between NCL and Nissan, is very optimistic at busier times on the western by-pass or central motorway around/through Newcastle. Coupled with extra track miles to NCL, there's probably no difference in total time associated with either airport.

[SWBKCB]

Going back to my football analogy, you'll remember that when the freight centre opened a number of agents where involved in promoting it - they are probably going to be the biggest influence on what goes where.

https://neutralairpartner.com/chartersync-has-managed-the-first-ad-hoc-flights-into-the-new-cargo-facility-at-teesside-international-airport/

https://www.caasint.com/air-partner-partners-with-teesside-international-airport-to-handle-cargo-flights/

[N707ZS]

From that,Walter Jones, Head of Cargo at Teesside International Airport, says: “Teesside International Airport has the capacity and the network to fulfil the current need to fly in 10,000 tonnes of cargo and more. Through working with businesses like Air Partner we know cargo will be taken care of.

“In two years, Teesside International Airport could be handling 20,000 tonnes of cargo per annum.”

Was looking for the emoji laughing rolling on its back.

[highwideandugly]

Whoh! I never mentioned Emirates!

My query still , Nissan is within Sunderland councils remit .Sunderland Council get a pay off from Newcastle Airports profits.

So..logic states that if flights.which used to go..mainly to Newcastle..now are going to Teesside..then…less money into Sunderland councils coffers?


However another thought and probably more relevant is the creation of the Freeport..I stand to be corrected..but are the goods coming into Teesside Airport subject to different tariffs? So Nissan saving money by using Teesside?

[N707ZS]

Think the freeport is a no. The airport isn't in the full freeport as the dock areas of Teesside.

[SWBKCB]

Whoh! I never mentioned Emirates!

My query still , Nissan is within Sunderland councils remit .Sunderland Council get a pay off from Newcastle Airports profits.

So..logic states that if flights.which used to go..mainly to Newcastle..now are going to Teesside..then…less money into Sunderland councils coffers?

However another thought and probably more relevant is the creation of the Freeport..I stand to be corrected..but are the goods coming into Teesside Airport subject to different tariffs? So Nissan saving money by using Teesside?

No - Sunderland Council don't manage how Nissan do business, doubt whether Nissan have that much influence/are that bothered on how parts are delivered, they will just be interested in cost and timeliness.

No - the airport is part of the Freeport (not sure it is up and running) but there is no impact on tariffs when the goods just get shipped through with no processing.

[jorvik]

Could it be that NCL is just too busy? Are the handling agents saying we probably can’t take this ad hoc on? Let’s face it, there is certainly down time at MME, the staff will be glad for something to do I would imagine.

[N707ZS]

Completely different operator… and a brand new one at that. TUI have decided Teesside to Dalaman will work better as a replacement
From the Leeds thread. Question is still open at Teesside, why build a route up over a few years and then say to your customers you cannot go there as we are only now going to Dalaman, you will have to fly from Leeds or Newcastle.

[AircraftOperations]

Is there a difference in charter cost between NCL and MME? E.g. additional fuel burn, landing & handling costs etc? It may be that a c.£200 cheaper flight to MME is prerefable to the customer - whether or not there is a few minutes to be saved by road. Being able to prove you didn't choose the most expensive option and still hit a deadline could be important to some logistics types.

[Beafer]

With the Mayors different friends moving onto the airport land, does anyone know who owns what in relation to the 2015 map shown?

Do the 2 special friends now own all of the south side?


https://leit-werk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/01-teess-valley-airport-masterplan-horizontal.jpg

[SWBKCB]

My understanding is the ownership of the land hasn't changed but the commercial rights to the business park have been split.

[N707ZS]

The builders seem to think the special friends own the road and the Southside.

[Beafer]

Teesside in the news - Drone on the centre line.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23679087.planes-nearly-crash-unknown-object-stockton/

[P330]

Cargo movements seem to be good again this week. I think around 6 or 7 today at least with more planned tomorrow.

Is something causing this spike or is this the new norm?

[SWBKCB]

Looking at Teesside Movements, I think a fair number of those are positioning flights. My guess is stockpiling/catching up around summer shut downs.

[Grumpy1]

Is something causing this spike or is this the new norm?

The backlogs at the ports caused by Boris's botched Brexit are likely to to continue for a few weeks yet during the school holidays so guess they will continue in good numbers until the kids go back to school at least.

[Harold77]

Cargo movements seem to be good again this week. I think around 6 or 7 today at least with more planned tomorrow.

Is something causing this spike or is this the new norm?

Only two cargo flights inbound today. Few of the other aircraft that where here since weekend have postitioned out to next jobs. At least looks like operating round robin services out and back with some others thrown in.

Last Friday saw five flights inbound from Ostrava.

With it being said that two new customers have been secured. I think we could be seeing some sort of regularity build up.

I was chatting with someone last month who said that things are going to really take off soon on cargo side and it certainly has been a real flurry of activity this past week and half.

[Grumpy1]

"With it being said that two new customers have been secured. I think we could be seeing some sort of regularity build up".

Lets not forget that the two new customers claim came from the mayor and given his history of exaggeration perhaps we should first wait and see some a evidence that this is actually true.

[SWBKCB]

Two new customers could be two different Nissan suppliers - the flights back end of last year came from Gyor, the recent batch mainly from Ostrava?

[N707ZS]

No sign of the Skybar terrace opening after so much media. They also don't advertise, if you buy a drink in the café you get free parking. Might ease the parking on the entry road when flights are due.

[SWBKCB]

No sign of the Skybar terrace opening after so much media.

Is this a change in policy, don't chuck money at things that don't have any profit in them? Might re-emerge before the next election

They also don't advertise, if you buy a drink in the café you get free parking.

I think this is only there so they have something to come back with when people moan about car park charges.

Might ease the parking on the entry road when flights are due.

Yes, don't they enforce the double yellow lines? What about the parking rules on the rest of the site, are they followed up?

[Harold77]

No sign of the Skybar terrace opening after so much media. They also don't advertise, if you buy a drink in the café you get free parking. Might ease the parking on the entry road when flights are due.

They do say it on the parking signs, airport website and social media pages since they introduced parking charges..

[N707ZS]

SWBKCB, we think there is a loophole with the entrance road not being private so they cannot ticket it. The rest of the site should also come under the same rule, does anyone want to risk it though.

The policy of drinks and free parking does exist, its, sorry Harold, just not plain obvious. A security person was discouraging parking when I visited last Wednesday evening.

[Harold77]

The approach road to roundabout is Council owned, so is down to the Council to police the double yellow lines. Which can be done in a number of ways traffic wardens, camera cars or from CCTV.

[Gsm1]

In the grand scheme of things is £2.50 a lot of money to drop someone off? I’m more than happy to pay this if it keeps the airport going. How much is LBA & NCL?

[SWBKCB]

£4 for 10 min at NCL, though you can drop off for free in Short Stay 2 at NCL - no such provison at MME (well, legally anyway)

[highwideandugly]

It’s 15 free minutes at Newcastle in the short stay 2 car park…200 mts ish from terminal..

[flybar]

In the grand scheme of things is £2.50 a lot of money to drop someone off? I’m more than happy to pay this if it keeps the airport going. How much is LBA & NCL?
1 hour free at LBA 5 minutes from the Terminal Building.

[s_insania]

In the grand scheme of things is £2.50 a lot of money to drop someone off? I’m more than happy to pay this if it keeps the airport going. How much is LBA & NCL?

It’s just another thing on here for the cretins to twist over. £2.50 is absolutely nothing these days, and those who cause a drama over it are nothing other than extremely tight

[Gsm1]

Totally agree people on here just like to moan & be negative! I picked someone up, went & had a coffee & got my parking refunded. Maybe this needs to be advertised more!

[N707ZS]

Maybe this needs to be advertised more!
Thats the problem with everything at Teesside a sever lack of advertisement, unless its got the mayors face on it!

[Grumpy1]

"unless its got the mayors face on it!"

Problem is that the mayor has now become such a toxic character that he probably puts off more people and businesses than he attracts.

[Flying Hi]

"unless its got the mayors face on it!"

Problem is that the mayor has now become such a toxic character that he probably puts off more people and businesses than he attracts.
Even so, without his involvement there would be NO MME by now.

[Grumpy1]

"there would be NO MME by now"

Peel had a comprehensive funded plan to develop the airport that you can find on the Movements site and fortunately the mayor adopted most of their plan. The close the airport and build houses was a political invention to justify the masive investment of tax payers money and still gets churned out.

[N707ZS]

Thats the problem, the fear factor only last so long. The local carbon capture plans have come to nothing proving more development plans down the pan.

[Cautious Optimist]

"there would be NO MME by now"

Peel had a comprehensive funded plan to develop the airport that you can find on the Movements site and fortunately the mayor adopted most of their plan. The close the airport and build houses was a political invention to justify the masive investment of tax payers money and still gets churned out.
I wasn't going to say it through fear of being flamed by those with a lesser understanding. That said I have no doubt we would have been closed off the back of Covid a la DSA

[tigertanaka]

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes. If the councils had not sold the airport off to Peel on the cheap, if Peel had invested in the mid-late 90s, if Peel had implemented their masterplan etc etc.

The fact is that we are where we are today as the residents of the Tees Valley elected a mayor who had a clear mandate to acquire the airport which has led to the current ownership structure. We have a nicely refurbished terminal, some good bucket & spade flights and progress with cargo & movements. However, at the same time the ABZ link is not what it was, the LHR flights didn't succeed and we have a £2.50 drop off charge for the car park. Teesside is a tertiary UK airport operating in a world where airlines are reluctant to pay big money to land their planes - therefore the airport needs to generate significant income directly from passengers (car parking, lounges, retail) as well as the cargo ops, general aviation and site development.

If people don't like that, then let's see what is on offer at next year's election. Maybe one candidate will commit to a triple daily MME-JFK, whilst another might say close the airport altogether - it's in the gift of the electorate.

[SWBKCB]

If the councils had not sold the airport off to Peel on the cheap

It wasn't, or there would have been a queue of prospective buyers. It was sold to attract an investor as the councils didn't have the money to develop the airport.

​​​​​​​who had a clear mandate to acquire the airport which has led to the current ownership structure.

He had a clear mandate to bring the airport into public ownership, but don't think that stretched to the opaque "current ownership structure"

[Harold77]

It was sold on the cheap. In April 2002 75% stake was sold to Peel for £500k, when land value was £40m. Then in 2012 14% more was gifted to Peel by the Councils. Taking Peels shareholding to 89% & 11% 6 Councils.

£500k split between 6 Councils. Didn't give each Councils much money.

[SWBKCB]

when land value was £40m

It's worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it. I think this valuation is 'generous'

[N707ZS]

At least the Mayor has said he would never sell the airport in the future.

[Asturias56]

Ah yes - a politicians promise

[SWBKCB]

And he has said he will close it if it can't support itself.

[onion]

It's worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it. I think this valuation is 'generous'

You do make me laugh.....
Southside is around 270 acres arable land is what,about £8k and acre! Lest be really conservative and say its worth £2k and acre! That's £540k...... please tell me how you believe that the whole site being given away for roughly £500k is not 'on the cheap'.

Let's not even look at the figure that Peel were quoting for the North side housing project.