Teesside-2

[Convair 440]

tigertanaka

Thank You with no ticket i did not want get stuck or pay a all day charge a few signs would of helped

[skyman771]

Has EZY set up a training base at Teesside?
Was down in Stockton today & appeared to be a significant amount of airbus activity in the circuit throughout the day.

[N707ZS]

It has been for a couple of years.

[The Flying Stool]

Not a training base as such, its just the right conditions and a suitable place to do it. Base Training as its known (circuits) for new pilots is generally determined where it will take place on the morning its self. Favourite places are usually somewhere with a decent runway, not too much traffic and benign weather. Usual favorites are Teesside, Prestwick, Doncaster, Newquay etc. If the weather isnt suitable at one place, they will go else where. My own base training was planned to take place at East Midlands but due to weather we ended up doing it at Shannon. My colleagues ended up doing theirs at Ostend. Basically, it can vary day to day.

[callum91]

Apparently the Logan service to LHR will finally be bookable through BA.com from July 1st allowing onward connections.

[CabinCrewe]

and seems to be on an ERJ

[No-More-Bullschit]

Great news! Took long enough.

[P330]

Great news.

I haven’t seen any Newquay Eastern movements recently or Loganair Jersey. Are these still running or planned?

With all the obvious caveats, any update on Alba and BH?

[GrahamK]

Eastern to Newquay is dropped, unsure about the others

[mmeman]

Looks like Eastern to Southampton is now pushed back to 19th July - possibly after the delaying of easing restrictions? Still looks a bit strange to me to have a J41 based to fly to Southampton once a day?

Loganair to Jersey starts on 26th June - Eastern to Jersey has been running a couple of weeks on the ATR - again a bit strange as this becomes a Teesside originating flight from Saturday leaving at 10am - MME>JER>HUY>JER>MME, so the ATR must position in and out at some point.

Not sure about Alba but Balkan Holidays have cancelled all holidays up until 31st July.

[SWBKCB]

Surprise, surprise - the growing pains startTeesside International Airport has scrapped its controversial £6 passenger tax - but introduced new drop-off fees in the same month.
But in the same month the Passenger Facility Fee was axed, the airport (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/all-about/teesside-international-airport) is now charging people £2.50 for drop-offs up to 15 minutes, £5 for 15 to 60 minutes and £7 an hour thereafter.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/airport-scraps-passenger-tax-introduces-20848562

[southside bobby]

"the growing pains start"...

Well perhaps or possibly political sleight of hand by a certain skillful Mr H when running for the Mayor`s office & fulfilling an earlier promise" to RYR into the bargain.

Certainly the changed structuring serves to keep RYR even happier together with taxpayers funding the airport too = a win win for them...Only right the good burghers of the area contribute something to the general fund after all.

[SWBKCB]

But confirming that prices would remain the same at Teesside Airport, Mr Houchen said: “We have no plans to increase our car parking charges and Teesside Airport currently offers some of the most competitive charges in the country. Advance booking online means airport users can also save even more than if they were to pay on the day. I am proud to continue to offer visitors three hours of free parking, giving them a great incentive to use their local airport.

From last July (pre-election). In his comments today, the Mayor has also reverted to his old "all this would be housing if it wasn't for me" self.

[SWBKCB]

A spokesperson for Teesside Airport said such measures had been taken to stop drivers taking "unnecessary" risks, using the kerbside as an unofficial drop-off point. They said: “The safety of our passengers is our number one priority. To prevent any motorists or individuals taking unnecessary risks when visiting the airport, we have placed cones alongside the road to prevent kerbside drop-offs and any accidents that may arise from this."

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19383611.cones-go-outside-teesside-airport-entrance-free-parking-scrapped/

[N707ZS]

Aircraft parking must be getting interesting. If Willis get a few more aircraft and the shooting season is on things might get a bit tight.

[tigertanaka]

May CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 3,216 - down 77% v May 2019 (no passengers in May 2020). This was the best month for passengers since March 2020.

Aberdeen: 1,743 (up 4% on May 2019)
Heathrow: 627
Belfast City: 361
Bristol: 36
Newquay: 347
Jersey: 40

Plus one-off charters:

Exeter: 29

There were also 571 transit passengers not included in the above figures (presumably mainly ex-HUY and ex-BRS pax on their way to ABZ).

Loads per flight were probably something like:

Aberdeen: 18.3 plus transit passengers (was 15.3 in April)
Heathrow: 6.4 (3.3 in April - anecdotally the early flight down and the late flight back sell much better than the morning return and the evening outbound. Hopefully the codeshare will boost numbers)
Belfast City: 9.5 (5.4 in April)
Bristol: 4.9 (commenced 24 May)
Newquay: 12.4 (commenced 9 May)
Jersey: 20.0 (more likely 40 if you assume there was no-one on the initial return flight from JER)

The 3,216 passengers figure compares pretty favourably with the 4,126 at Leeds Bradford (Newcastle have not yet reported).

[N707ZS]

It's good to see the airport is investing in much needed new vehicles and ground equipment.

[oldart]

Have they replaced the cargo lifter that was sent to Doncaster?

[N707ZS]

Not seen one of those.

[highwideandugly]

Those figures are interesting.lAberdeen to be expected?

Heathrow 6 passengers per flight.. wonder what the break even is on an EMB. If Loganair are covering all of the costs then they must have rather deep pockets?

Wonder if the resumption of KLM will also have a detrimental effect?

[oldart]

N707ZS

Cheers, I thought they would need one if they intend to attract freight aircraft, missing out to NEW.

[SWBKCB]

might work for the odd single load flight, but you need more than a hi-lo to support regular general cargo services.

[SWBKCB]

According to Ryanair's website, flights to Alicante on July 5 and 12, flights to Palma on July 6 and 13, and flights to Corfu on July 7 and July 14, will no longer operate.

A spokesperson for Teesside Airport said: “Due to the ongoing uncertainty surrounding international travel and the recent delay to lockdown easing, Ryanair has taken the decision to pause one flight on two routes – just six in total – and push back the launch of its Corfu route between the 1-15 July."
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19407516.ryanair-cancels-several-flights-teesside-airport-july/

[N707ZS]

I wonder how much buisness the terminal based travel company has lost from the new carpark fees on top of the pandemic uncertainty.

[P330]

Given Palma is now green, this feels strange timing.

That said, I don’t know anyone going on holiday right now so would expect the flights running would be very lightly loaded.

[SKOJB]

light loads so decided to operate aircraft on heavier routes instead?

[N707ZS]

The fuel problem seems to be continuing with club aircraft venturing to local strips.

[N707ZS]

Prices for the PCR test are still expensive for a family holiday.

[BA318]

and many are still scared of the list changing at short notice and either needing to quarantine for 10 days (or pay extra to cut it to 5) or having to book last minute expensive flights back to beat the change.

[highwideandugly]

On another site..Balkan flights cancelled for summer.
Plus another £10m needed to keep airport on course.

Mayor hasn’t mentioned any of this yet😀

[SWBKCB]

From the Echo (who have also had another go at the RYR story)TEESSIDE Airport is to get an extra £10m as part of a ‘refresh’ of what the Tees Valley Combined Authority (TVCA) spends its money on. TVCA said the cash would “enable the airport to stay on track for its recovery plan” after commercial revenues were hit by the covid-19 pandemic. The proposed move was defended by Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen who said the airport had “achieved much more and much faster in its turnaround over the past year” than what could have been expected.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19411672.teesside-airport-get-extra-10m-public-purse/

[Albert Hall]

Posting from anna.aero just now says 7% of UK flights have been cut for July in the last week (6,000 flights and 1.2 million seats) with BA, Ryanair, Jet2, easyJet and Virgin Atlantic in that order of cuts. So the cuts run far more widely than just MME.

[SKOJB]

I think we can all agree that cuts run much further than MME alone and will continue to do so for the next few months!

[N707ZS]

Mayor is getting a 50% pay rise for his work £37k to £65k.

[tigertanaka]

More like 74%! I know £37k is more than the average wage (especially in the North East) but it is not a fortune compared with being CEO of a medium sized company.

[Flightrider]

That’s probably about the same (all in) as an ATCO or a Captain at Teesside would earn. It’s really not a lot. A decent business development person in the private sector would earn more than that. And what he seems to have accomplished is at or beyond that level.

[Jamesair1]

True....£37k was peanuts for that level of responsibility

[inOban]

Is being Mayor a full-time job?

[SWBKCB]

This one is, yes.

[Convair 440]

D B C Approved planning for work/change of use for TNT/Fedex to move into hangar 1 and for Willis Asset management to move in hangar 2

[SWBKCB]

What's the thinking behind this?

[Convair 440]

Hangar 2 has a cut out section to get the tail of the aircraft in the hangar instead of it being stuck out
obstructing the taxy way

[SWBKCB]

highwideandugly

Mayor's had another go - of course Teesside is also significantly smaller than Liverpool“To do a comparison with the Liverpool City region combined authority, who have no financial interest whatsoever in Liverpool John Lennon Airport, they have just provided a £34m bail-out, so when you compare the bail-outs that other airports have had ours is significantly smaller because of the plan we have put in place.”

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/10m-bailout-teesside-airport-significantly-20964151

[GrahamK]

Suspect the Mayor of Liverpool is not paying the airlines to keep the flights running either.

[Albert Hall]

I think if you could find out what exactly the Mayor of Liverpool has and hasn't been paying for (well, the one who was in office until earlier this year) then that would make an interesting debate all on its own!

[highwideandugly]

£4 for 10 mins drop off parking at Newcastle..that will put a smile on the mayors face!

[tigertanaka]

I was in London over the weekend, the Teesside flight was sold out so I went from Newcastle (out Sunday morning, back Monday morning - total 27 hours). Newcastle advance booking price was £36.99, by comparison Teesside is £15. I ended up paying £10 to park at the Premier Inn at Callerton Parkway.

[highwideandugly]

£15 ? That’s a real money spinner then!
Don’t forget flights are only selling every other seat too?

[onion]

Not entirely sure of your point highwide, as you seem to argue against the cost of parking in one instance and then support the cost of parking in another?
Likewise you question the loads on flights when it supports your narrative but then argue that a sold out flight is effectively 2/3s sold as if that's a bad thing? (I'm guessing on the 135/45 the middle seat in the 3 is empty)

What is your point on both elements?

[highwideandugly]

Point is if seats are being sold on a low capacity aircraft landing at one of the most expensive airports in the world at £15 then not much profit being made there..or am I missing something?

Re the car parking..I’m not arguing against any charges..I’m saying after the flack the mayor received over MME car parking charge introduction..then he will have a smile on his face at the increase up the road.

Comprender?

[The Nutts Mutts]

I think he was saying that car parking at Teesside was £15, not the flight.

[tigertanaka]

Indeed I was saying that car parking was £15 at Teesside for 24-48 hours (versus £36.99 - soon to be £39.99 - at NCL).

However these threads can be a bit hard to follow sometimes as the mods do seem to like removing quotes from replies.

[Robert-Ryan]

highwideandugly

I'm confused, are you saying Teesside is one of the most expensive airports in the world?! Because that was always myth, never true.

And as for parking, we always have been and still are one of the most competitive tariffs, the complaints are entirely nonsense with the exception of how do you validate the two free hours when the cafe/travel agency is closed?

[SWBKCB]

He means Heathrow - touched a nerve, mind! :ok:

[highwideandugly]

Ok..I see…I read it as flight price was£15..apologies…

[N707ZS]

The Southside road has finally started with new boundary fences being erected on the farmland.

[SWBKCB]

Esken Limited ("Esken" or "the Group") - Conclusion of strategic partnership with Teesside International Airport

Over the last 12 months, Teesside International Airport has secured an airline partnership with Loganair, attracted new routes and installed a strong, experienced leadership team, with the oversight of the Tees Valley Mayor and Combined Authority. Given these positive developments, Teesside International Airport no longer requires the support of Esken as an external strategic partner.

As a result of these positive developments, Esken will cease its management agreement with the airport and transfer its 25% ownership of Teesside International Airport to a new Teesside Airport Foundation for a nominal consideration (the "Disposal"). Esken may be entitled to a deferred consideration. If there were to be a future sale of Teesside International Airport before 25 January 2023 Esken has agreed with Tees Valley Combined Authority that Esken would be entitled to share in the proceeds of that sale up to an amount not exceeding £31.3m.

https://tools.eurolandir.com/tools/Pressreleases/GetPressRelease/?ID=3936776&lang=en-GB&companycode=uk-wpf&v=redesign

[N707ZS]

The exit of Stobart.

[SWBKCB]

Will anybody notice?

[N707ZS]

Esken played a key role in initially supporting Teesside International Airport's development following its acquisition by the Tees Valley Mayor and Combined Authority on 24 January 2019 and return to public ownership.
Did they really or was it just the staff who have been there for years.

[oldart]

Does anybody know how the passenger loads are doing on the Ryanair flights?

[SWBKCB]

From the linked article

The newly-established, Teesside Airport Foundation will hold the 25 percent stake - meaning the airport is 100 percent locally controlled. This will then consist of an independent board of trustees, with applications for those interested opening today.

Another interesting bit:

As a result of the changes, a requirement for a referendum held across the Tees Valley will need to be held if the airport ever goes up for sale has been announced today.

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/mayor-give-teesside-international-new-protections-against-being-sold-without-referndum/

[CabinCrewe]

my only concern would be that local ownership can sometimes mean no major long term investment.
Would be funny if trustees were from FlyBe, Ferrovial, Stobart etc :)

[SWBKCB]

There wasn't much under private ownership....
There's a publicly funded 10 year investment plan in place. How much do you think Stobart were contributing?


Would be funny if trustees were from FlyBe, Ferrovial, Stobart etc :)

Funny but unlikely if you look at the selection criteria in the links above

[N707ZS]

Wasn't the original plan for Stobart to eventually buy the lot.

The land on the Southside and the whole airport is constantly being eyed by local land agents and developers.

[Robert-Ryan]

Good. Their loyalty was to be questioned when they announced SEN-NCL

[AirportPlanner1]

Sorry, but with no disrespect to the Teeside region I can say as a resident of the SEN catchment that a NCL route would have had far greater potential. Newcastle is a recognised weekend destination, Stockton less so. Newcastle is that little bit further which makes flying more worthwhile. It wouldn’t have been a Newcastle to London route anyway, it would have been Essex to Newcastle. I doubted NCL would have worked in any case. SEN-MME definitely wouldn’t.

[Robert-Ryan]

I would say all of that was accurate without it altering my original point

[N707ZS]

AirportPlanner1, if your route was for a holiday Teesside could be better, Newcastle 30mins, Durham similar, South to North Yorkshire and near the A66 for a drive to the Lakes.

[AirportPlanner1]

The thing is N Yorks is straight up the M11 and A1 and quite an easy journey, the faff of getting to SEN (or STN), flying up and getting a car to come south again isn’t worth it and would certainly be longer even with a service station stop. I don’t think anyone would use Teesside for the lakes unless they lived in Teesside. The argument for Durham works in reverse and actually it’s better from central Newcastle, what a 10/15 min train ride? NCL is well placed for the Northumberland coast and national park, again much more of a trek from here. Certainly ‘the lads’ would go to Newcastle for a weekend on the town.

All irrelevant anyway, the point is the announcement of SEN-NCL was in no way a reflection of Stobart “loyalty” to MME.

[N707ZS]

Agreed. A bigger question is "what purpose did Stobart serve". Other than Kate appearing now and then there was no obvious Stobart presence.
Will things stagnate now they have left?

[SWBKCB]

Kate's not been seen for a long time. Did Stobart do anymore than their name, as an established airport operator, gave a bit of credibility to the Mayor's buy-out?

[SWBKCB]

Further details and political commentThe Disposal described above constitutes a Class 2 transaction for Esken for the purposes of the Financial Conduct Authority's Listing Rules. Esken's shareholding in Teesside International Airport was treated as an investment on the Group's balance sheet and ascribed a £nil value as at 28 February 2021.

"A £nil value will be ascribed to the deferred consideration. Esken's shareholding in Teesside International Airport did not contribute to the Group's full year results for the year ended 28 February 2021. Any proceeds arising from the Disposal will be used for general corporate purposes."

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19474574.eskens-letter-concluding-agreement-teesside-airport-full/

Labour MP for Stockton North, Alex Cunningham branded the announcement as "disappointing," highlighting previous suggestions they would make the airport "viable."

He said: “It’s disappointing to see Stobart jump just ship two years into a ten-year plan when they briefed the Combined Authority and others about their successes elsewhere, and how they’d make Teesside not just viable, but a major airport in its own right. This decision also poses the questions: why and when did they decide this, and did the Mayor know of Stobart’s plan to abandon Teesside Airport before the May election and his request for a further £10m to support it. Stobart is leaving local taxpayers to shoulder the costs. I just hope the Mayor isn’t going to spend even more of our people’s money on this project when our communities still suffer from a totally inadequate public transport system."

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19474201.labour-hits-back-esken-withdraws-teesside-airport/

Sadly the MP doesn't seem to know how the airport is funded

[SWBKCB]

Interesting week....The Tees Valley Mayor has defended a decision to cancel a contract for Teesside International Airport's security firm, claiming it will save a six-figure sum.

Close Security Protection was dropped by the airport after two years managing site security - in a move branded 'disgraceful and underhand' by the firm.


https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/mayor-defends-decision-cancel-airport-21154851

[SWBKCB]

Ms Willard appears to be a Director of the Teesside Airport Foundation, along with some other familiar names.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13281287/officers

[tigertanaka]

Can't answer your question about who picked the officers Beafer, but it is extremely commonplace (especially in Mergers & Acquisitions) for new companies to be setup with a holding name and then renamed when the transaction is announced.

[tigertanaka]

June CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 7,297 (178 passengers in June 2020, 15,027 in June 2019)

Aberdeen: 2,510 (up 60% on June 2019)
Belfast City: 783
Bristol: 504 (includes 142 charter)
Jersey: 501 (down 30% on June 2019)
Heathrow: 945
Newquay: 363
Alicante: 591
Amsterdam: 50
Faro: 143
Palma: 279

Plus other charters:

Luton: 113 (Scottish FA)
Glasgow: 193 (Scottish FA)
Bucharest: 99
Mykolaiv (in Ukraine apparently): 61
Agadir: 52
Vienna: 56
Graz: 54

There were also 1,074 transfer passengers not included in the above figures (presumably Eastern passengers on the ABZ route to/from HUY and Loganair passengers from BRS also going to ABZ) compared to 459 last month.

Overall, this is the best month for passengers since February last year and the best month for domestic traffic since March 2009 (when the BMI Heathrow route ended).

Aberdeen had it's best month since November 2017 and loads of 17.9 passengers per flight (plus the transfer passengers) are very strong. Belfast is also looking good, averaging 15.1 passengers per flight, the same as Newquay. Heathrow is once again disappointing with an average of 8.4 passengers per segment (up from 6.5 in May & 3.3 in April), although the codeshare did not start until mid July. Amsterdam had only 50 passengers but only 4 flights in June. Clearly, covid will be impacting JER, ALC, FAO and PMI so maybe see how things develop in July?

[AirLCY]

None of those passenger load factors look very good at all in comparison to other domestic routes in the Uk

[mmeman]

Anyone know which airline is going to be used for the TUI flights next year? I thought it was going to be TUI themselves, but on the website it has changed to 'other carrier' - or too early to even be sorted yet?

[skyman771]

As an observation, then without KL providing connectivity to the "world" then one has to assume that this must provide a substantial boost to LM's LHR offering in the short term at least, though clearly not apparent up to end of June ?

[P330]

Announced for 2022.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/tui-adds-second-summer-service-21218003

[Musket90]

Scheduled timings suggest it is non-UK based airline.

[VentureGo]

Most likely to be operated by Antalya based Corendon Airlines.

[HH6702]

Ryanair is to open a base up the road at NCL March 2022

[highwideandugly]

A few Heathrow and Amsterdam flights cancelled recently…Covid? Or tech? Or poor loads?
Someone posted 15on a Heathrow two days ago…not good?

Struggle for all airports at mo.

Anyone know how the the holiday flight loads are?

[N707ZS]

Probably people on holiday reducing the loads.

[mmeteesside]

I was on the return from Belfast last night and there was 14 on that. Flew down to LHR from NCL Friday morning and there was about 70-80 on that (A320). Equally my LHR-DUB Friday night had probably ~100 on an A330.

[highwideandugly]

Thanks MME ..as suspected..long way until normality returns!

[GrahamK]

Sounds like LHR is improving if there was 15 on the flight. Regularly reading tweeets of less than 10pax.

[highwideandugly]

One rotation cancelled again today.

I still wonder who is covering the huge losses that must be happening?

[Atlantic Explorer]

I suspect it is the taxpayer, hidden under the Mayors vanity project.

Flying a handful of people into LHR is a sure way of losing a lot of money- fast.

[Robert-Ryan]

News just coming through that Eastern are ending Aberdeen and Southampton, awful news!

[tigertanaka]

Now that Eastern are out of the way, watch the prices rise on the Aberdeen route. Currently you can fly MME-ABZ pretty much any day between September and December for £71 one way Sunday-Thursday and £78.70 on a Friday. Let's check again in a month's time.

Eastern/Air Kilroe have served Teesside-Aberdeen for well over 30 years (maybe longer) but 2 operators on that route was never going to last in the long term.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Is that the Eastern base closing then?

[N707ZS]

Eastern hasn't been based for a long time the route operated from Humberside.

[meleagertoo]

Was done at Gatwick what? 25 years ago? But the tanks on the bus' rooves made them unable to use any of the underpasses...

[SWBKCB]

From the article linked below - "It has been described as "awful news" on social media, with passengers voicing concerns about fare increases." :suspect:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/eastern-airways-pulls-two-key-21330530

[SWBKCB]

Apologies if I'm getting confused, but did the Eastern Southamption service ever operate?

[The Nutts Mutts]

Briefly last year in between lockdowns, it was due to resume again on the 6th September. From memory last year the passenger loads were on par with Eastern's Leeds service, albeit both reduced because of COVID etc.

[SWBKCB]

Deary-me - I know that this isn't really the place for party politics, but the local MP's aren't exactly covering themselves in glory with their inaccurate/over-blown comments.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19519199.labour-mp-raises-concern-teesside-airport-eastern-pull-routes/

[tigertanaka]

Indeed. Maybe the politicians could say if they felt that it was sustainable to have two operators going head to head on MME-ABZ in the medium term and if so, could they give examples of a similar situation (ie 2 operators both flying from the same tertiary airport to a secondary one) happening in the UK today.

Loganair have long coveted the MME-ABZ route, it has been a cash cow for Eastern for a long time and Loganair have now won the battle - for me it is as simple as that.

[SWBKCB]

I agree - they haven't a clue. If you look back to the original business case, it's arguable that Southampton is the more important route. There is a fair arguement to be had as to whether it would contribute more to the Tees Valley economy than Corfu or Antalya.

[Jamesair1]

I can't comment on Southampton but I can see the Eastern business viewpoint on Aberdeen. Closing MME and transferring back to their original NCL vacant route seems entirely logical and makes commercials sense to me. Loganair originally drove them off NCL - ABZ and SOU.

[Jamesair1]

Some splendid praise for MME on the Loganair thread.

[highwideandugly]

Anyone know if the Heathrow has now reduced officially to two flights..or is it temporarily?
Also KLM seem to be almost just operating at moment..is it just here or elsewhere?

Hope Ryanair bringing in the revenue still!
Plenty going on in the terminal with great business for local firms.. Ben sticking to his promises..

[SWBKCB]

Normal August reductions for business orientated flights? didn't KLM reduce flights pre-Covid?

[highwideandugly]

DTV movements listing cancellations on the Heathrow and Amsterdam routes due Covid?

Makes you wonder if the competition , to the detriment of TIA , is taking away passengers from each other ?

[SWBKCB]

Is it Covid or a week in the summer holidays just before a bank holiday?

[SWBKCB]

From the airports press release:

The airport also offers brilliant onward connectivity to the US and Loganair’s ticketing deal with United Airlines means that once international travel has further opened up, you can jet to the States from Teesside on one ticket, with the reassurance of through check-in and through luggage along with protected connections in the event of delays.
Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen said: “Not only is the city a fantastic place for a people from Teesside, Darlington and Hartlepool to take a great city break, increasing our ties with the city will give businesses and visitors the chance to discover that we’re a region on the up, with the potential to boost investment and jobs. We have plenty more exciting announcements to come as we look to make 2022 a huge summer for the airport, so watch this space!”

Nice of the Mayor to remember that the public investment in MME isn't just about holidays and city breaks...

[tigertanaka]

Airport twitter feed is saying: "Additional destinations to be announced soon"

Loganair are shuffling around their summer 2022 timetable right now. Currently Heathrow is only twice daily (although currently the plane is timetabled to sit on the ground for 1h 40 mins at LHR) and no sign of Jersey or Bristol at the moment (I would be shocked if Jersey did not appear).

So there are two early afternoon gaps in the schedule right now. One might still be for Bristol (plane that goes to Aberdeen) but anyone care to speculate about other destinations?

[SWBKCB]

Bristol and Jersey don't appear in the press release. Looking at the LM route map, maybe Southampton?

Loganair has adapted its summer 2022 schedule to meet the demands of local passengers travelling out of Teesside, with flights to Dublin running every Tuesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday between 29 May and 25 October. It joins double daily weekday flights to Aberdeen plus six flights per week to Belfast, as well as flights to London Heathrow and Newquay.

[SKOJB]

surely LM will not operate NCL and MME to SOU?

[MARKEYD]

Reported this morning on local news here in Jersey that Loganair have cancel the Teeside route for next summer 2022

[commit aviation]

Loganair to resume international flights next year | Travel Weekly (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/loganair-to-resume-international-flights-next-year)

Would appear to confirm JER going across the network due to poor customer demand

[tigertanaka]

July CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 9,390 (compared to 7,297 last month, 1,429 passengers in July 2020 and 12,922 in July 2019)

Aberdeen: 2,409 (up 59% on July 2019)
Belfast City: 1,151 (best month yet)
Bristol: 350
Jersey: 775 (up 29% on July 2019)
Heathrow: 1,009 (best month yet)
Newquay: 666 (best month yet)
Alicante: 1,061
Amsterdam: 375
Corfu: 152
Faro: 315
Palma: 1,082

There were also 1,151 transfer passengers not included in the above figures (we know that 538 pax flew BRS-ABZ with a stop at MME so the vast majority of the other 613 transit passengers must have been going to Bristol).

Aberdeen was slightly down on June (reflecting 5 fewer flights) but loads are still strong and if you include those stopping off at Teesside they are nearly 26 pax per flight. Belfast is continuing it's good start and averaged 18.6 passengers per flight (up from 15.1 in June). Heathrow numbers were up slightly but the numbers are still poor so let's hope the codeshare boosts traffic in the coming months. Amsterdam had only 375 from (I think) 34 flights in July which makes 11 per segment and points to a lack of demand for international business travel.

As for the Ryanair routes, I think the average loads were: Palma 77, Alicante 76, Faro 18 and Corfu 38 (only 4 flights). Of course, the quarantine restrictions were only lifted for vaccinated people in mid July so August should see some further improvement.

[highwideandugly]

Just nudged ahead of Lands End and Kirkwall.

Not sure if these are good figures are not?..it of course Covid affected,but approx 4.5k departing passengers through the terminal..rough average of 150 passengers per day,is not good.
No where near enough to keep all the new business outlets viable..and confirms the massive subsidies being paid to all at this present time.

The question has to be..what happens when the money runs out and questions start to be asked on the wisdom of the millions spent..

[N707ZS]

Might we see Blue Island operate the Jersey flights. Demand possibly down due to a route preferred by older passengers who possibly don't want to fly due to covid.

[davidjohnson6]

What happens when the money runs out ? New housing development

[tigertanaka]

Over capacity combined with reduced demand in my opinion. Jersey has been operated by both Eastern and Loganair this summer and in July there were 28 flights on the route (counting both ways). In recent years the FlyBe charter would have had 10 flights in such a month and got a similar number of passengers. Would love to know the split of the passengers last month between Loganair (18 flights) and Eastern (10 flights).

[Cautious Optimist]

Some ridiculous comments on here, no way Jersey is over-capacity, not even slightly

[Saabdriver1]

So as I understand it, Jersey entry restrictions have been difficult for people to comprehend, the demand hasn't been sufficient to support the number of seats and the overall number of seats to Jersey has out-run the accommodation capacity on the island.

If the numbers above are right, 5 x AT7 and 9 x ERJ flights in the month produces about 1,600 seats. There were 775 pax so flights overall were less than half full. Sounds like over capacity to me. MME isn't alone as the position at NCL with three airlines flying to JER and 1,961 pax looks even worse.

[JERtoNCL]

Long time lurker, first time poster. As you might gather from my username I used to live in Jersey and now live in the North East, so keep tabs on the route fairly closely.

Cautious Optimist
Maybe not as an airport, but look at the North East as a whole. There has been more capacity this year than in years gone by.

EZY, Jet2 and Loganair are operating NCL-JER (previously just EZY), and there is a heavy Jet2 presence on LBA-JER.

Many in Teesside will not be put off by an hour's drive to NCL or LBA and an £80 return fare to JER with EZY/Jet2, rather than a fare north of £300 return with LM from MME.

[tigertanaka]

775 passengers last month out of 1,500+ available seats looks like over capacity to me.

[Cautious Optimist]

So its overcapacity as far as the pandemic is concerned but I was thinking longer term, as should the airlines be

[SWBKCB]

The pandemic that has shut most of the competition?

[onion]

LM jumped on the Jersey to fly the aircraft. 50% load factors roughly. It's not ideal but having an aircraft sat on the ground doing nothing is a sure way to make a loss.
So who on here knows the yield on the route?
Secondly it's fairly obvious the LM are returning their aircraft to previously flown route pre Covid that they stopped.
Jersey was one of the few location that was accessible to an extent, next summer more European destinations will be open too.

I think alot on this thread need to realise that we are still in unusual times and as others have said you can't compare!

Most also conveniently forget that MME is not just about pax but so much more.

[highwideandugly]

Onion..good points..but your last sentence re. about so much more….can you remind us what…and what is worth the £75 million investment?

[Get me some traffic]

Draken! Very important in providing guaranteed income.

[highwideandugly]

Have they not been resident for years anyway? I once heard it was a £2 million per year contract? Suppose that helped the previous owners hang on to KLM and Eastern et al..

So guess that would have remained what ever happened?

[N707ZS]

The fire school must also contribute to the bank account.

The airport has slipped up on easy pickings such as GA and fuel, GA being quite ignored and fuel for even jets has been miss planned recently.

[highwideandugly]

Don’t know the details but how have GA and fuel sales slipped through the net? I would have thought these were basic revenue earners?

[onion]

I dont think they have. I ve seen reports that the fuel targets have been smashed!
GA will have been affected by Covid like everything else!
But are movements not up on 2019? Can we not look at positives? Rather than the negative?
The airport is in a really good position to take advantage of the reset that Covid has been, investment has been made, which has been spent locally in the most part with, extra revenue streams added and more to come online.

[P330]

Agree. How many airports are at 75% of their 2019 passenger numbers like the numbers say above? We’re in a good position for when things pick up.

Worry though for KLM; business travel may never return to prior levels and travel through an intermediate country isn’t ideal at the moment; add in the new Heathrow competition and I think they will struggle to reach 2019 levels anytime soon, if ever.

[onion]

I agree with the KLM analysis and if you add possible Dublin inter lining too AMS may struggle to return to pre pandemic levels. Personally can't see the LHR continuing though once the big carriers regain their confidence and slots become a premium at LHR which may see the AMS benefit.

[N707ZS]

There were recent long delays for fuel with aircraft having to wait or leave with what they had, the club aircraft have been hopping over to Fishburn to use the self service pump, hopefully this has been rectified. GA facilities are not good the little fella hasn't much clout.

[tigertanaka]

tigertanaka

11 days later and most flights to Aberdeen are now either £133 or £153 one way.

[onion]

Just looked myself in October and I find them at £71 each way!
Tigertanka what's your point?? What's your motive?

[tigertanaka]

Something happened overnight as yesterday evening, a lot of October was also at high prices but my point was that last week you could pretty much book any day in September for under £80. With Eastern gone from 6 September, you can only get flights under £100 on 4 days in the month and on 8 days, the price is over £150.

No motive, I am a big supporter of the airport and want to see it do well. I have done 5 trips from it so far this year and I am also off to NQY on Friday. It was clear that whoever won the ABZ route war would put up prices, I just hope we are not going back to the days of 1,500 people a month on the route paying silly prices.

[RA85684]

But if 1,500 a month paying high fares is serving the market appropriately, what's the problem?

I remember a discussion I had with an airport executive years back. Take Newcastle-Bristol, which is best:
- Multiple daily BA Dash 8's, morning/afternoon/evening
- The current EZY schedule, cheap seats on an A32x but crap schedule for business

[SWBKCB]

LM MME-SOU bookable for Summer 2022

[No-More-Bullschit]

at the expense of Bristol...

[SWBKCB]

In a statement, a spokesperson for the airline said: "Our Bristol route was initially planned as a summer 21 service only as a result of the demand for UK staycations. That said we were hopeful that bookings would be strong enough to extend its operation into the winter season. Regrettably, that has not been the case."

Teesside Airport echoed that the route between the region and Bristol had been planned to operate for the summer. A spokesperson said: “Bristol was always a summer route to meet the increased demand for staycations this year."

The article doesn't make clear if there is any intention to return next summer - currently not on sale unlike the other LM destinations from Teesside.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19570403.loganairs-route-teesside-bristol-will-end-later-year/

[tigertanaka]

Some perspective on the loss of Bristol. Loganair suspended their daily direct BRS-ABZ route last year due to COVID and when things picked up a bit, they tagged a Bristol leg onto the Teesside-Aberdeen flight (so it went ABZ-MME-BRS-MME-ABZ) while the plane could be otherwise waiting at Teesside. This meant that Bristol passengers could still get to Aberdeen (with a wait on the tarmac at Teesside), the Teesside-Aberdeen plane would be more efficient as it would carry more people and as a bonus there was a standalone Teesside-Bristol flight for people to book.

Loganair now feel that it is time to bring back the direct BRS-ABS route but clearly feel that there is little point in running the MME-BRS leg as well (as they need to focus on filling the newly reintroduced direct service and few ex-BRS passengers will choose the stopping service at Teesside over a direct flight).

The MME-BRS route does not appear to stand up in its own right so Loganair instead are now tagging on a Southampton leg onto one of the Teesside-Aberdeen flights (will be ABZ-MME-SOU-MME-ABZ). This means that Southampton locals can now get to Aberdeen without changing planes, the Teesside-Aberdeen flights get a bit of feed from Southampton and Teesside gets a new route as a by-product.

Disappointing of course to lose Bristol (and to not get the Southampton replacement until next year) but this is more about the BRS-ABZ demand than the number of people wanting to fly between Teesside and Bristol.

[SWBKCB]

Was BRS ever on sale after the end of October? Teesside Movements don't list it as a summer seasonal service.

[oldart]

I presume that Loganair also want to tap in to the cruise market, round about £150 return, as apposed to £110 ret by coach from Washington services. Downside is the taxi fare from Southampton to the cruise terminal. Maybe Loganair could come up with a package deal with the likes of P and O and others.

[Gunfighter52]

Hangar 3 West has been emptied of residents temporarily to allow work to take place. There is an ongoing rumour that a new operation is to move into H3W, with the GA being moved into some new builds. Not sure whether the work is related or not.

[highwideandugly]

A lot of cruise companies offer free transport from the NE now..I know I’ve used it!

The cruise market is in limbo at the moment and what there is from Southampton is very limited due to initial sailing time.
Norway etc is much better served from the Tyne as you get an extra 2 days..

Another downside is the baggage allowance..most people I know take 25 kgs plus..of course there is no limit on the ship! Would think that will be a huge drawback with Loganair?
In a nut shell ,there might not be many cruise passengers using the service..unless the mayor knows differently?

[P330]

KLM’s messy schedule of 1 flight a day, 3-4 times a week will now continue through to early December.

The old 3 daily schedule, pushed back countless times, now is programmed to start c7th Dec.

[tigertanaka]

The situation is not helped by the erratic Loganair LHR schedule. Next week I need to go to Copenhagen, no 7am Heathrow flight (or the 6am AMS either) so I am up the A1 to go from Newcastle. However, coming back, there is no late afternoon LHR-NCL flight either so I am flying back to Teesside - no massive problem but this means I need to get a taxi to NCL on Tuesday morning rather than drive there. The BA codeshare does give some options but a consistent timetable would be a massive help.

[SWBKCB]

P330

Given the fact that they could accomodate "around 80 passengers" from Leeds on a 100-seat aircraft the other day, you can maybe see why. Given tigertanaka's comments, might be a bit chicken and egg (flights would be busier if there were more of them), but KLM have been doing this a while!

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19579174.around-80-passengers-travel-leeds-teesside-airport/

[Cautious Optimist]

https://www.facebook.com/TeessideInternational/posts/4530259440337890

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19586191.ryanair/ (https://www.facebook.com/TeessideInternational/posts/4530259440337890)

Would the airport have reacted if Teesside was NOT one of the bases? At worst, we can expect routes from some of the 10?

[mmeman]

Ryanair have started to load the flights for next summer - all the same frequency as this Summer, with timing changes for Alicante and Palma, Faro exactly the same, and no Corfu as yet - timings don't suggest a base although I did notice that the Newcastle flights from Palma and Alicante are flown with aircraft based at Palma and Alicante.

How about Jet2, would they ever come to Teesside?

[SWBKCB]

The problem for MME with both Jet2 and Ryanair is the bases at LBA and NCL. There are probably examples in other areas where there are clusters of bases, but the North East isn't the richest of regions. NCL hasn't recovered pax numbers from the financila slump in 2007 - the only major airport in the UK that hasn't - and that's with MME being at a low ebb. The north east is also squeezed by EDI and LBA which have grown tremendously in the last 20 years, and have bigger/richer local markets.

The best thing Mayor Ben can do for MME is to improve the local economy, which will increase the propensity/ability of north easterners to fly.

[N707ZS]

Would Ryanair revolt if the airport did bring in another low cost carrier.

[Buster the Bear]

Not is the subsidy is good.

[SKOJB]

Not sure the airport could support another low cost carrier and sometimes feel this thread gets rather ahead of itself. Catchment is relatively small and already has major overlaps with NCL and LBA

[oldart]

Yes I agree with your comment, however, if given the chance would the people who live in the NCL and LBA overlap areas, travel from MME. To me walking in the front door and a 100 yards to the back door to climb on a flight, is just what I want.

[Robert-Ryan]

New business plan mentions a new freight facility "later this year" and the Mayor has said on his social media new routes are starting in April. Despite claiming progress the south-side doesn't appear to be any further ahead than any of the previous attempts and projected passenger numbers have been scaled back.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/airport-bosses-aim-1m-passengers-21625977

[SWBKCB]

Oldart

But you can only do that while there are few flights and low pax numbers, which means the airport isn't making money.

[SWBKCB]

Does anybody know the capacity of the terminal now following the recent work?

[tigertanaka]

The article states a 314,000 passenger target next year although the Mayor later claims the target is 400,000. Either way this looks to be a tough ask - unless more routes are in the pipeline. It looks like they are also expecting to get Amsterdam back up to 10k pax a month.

A bit of guestimation from me - capacity might be nearer 400k though:

Amsterdam: 120k (pre covid run rate)
Aberdeen: 25k
Heathrow: 40k (26 flights a week x 30 pax)
Belfast: 12k (12 flights a week x 20 pax)
Dublin: 9k (12 flights a week x 20 pax - starts April)
Southampton: 9k (12 flights a week x 20 pax - starts April)
Newquay: 2.5k (current run rate)
Jersey: 2.5k (2019)
Alicante: 31k (4 flights a week x 150 pax)
Palma: 18k (4 flights a week x 30 weeks x 150 pax)
Faro: 18k (4 flights a week x 30 weeks x 150 pax)
Palma: 8k (2 flights a week x 27 weeks x 150 pax)
Antalya: 8k (2 flights a week x 27 weeks x 150 pax)
Burgas: 5k (2019)
Total: 308k

[Jamesair1]

Interesting Guesstimates...will be interesting to check in a years time to see how accurate you have been.

[tigertanaka]

Despite being an optimist, I don't think they will be anywhere near those numbers (Amsterdam will be lucky to do 70k next year IMO) ! I was trying to put myself in the airport's shoes.

[The Flying Stool]

Interesting figures. I flew from Heathrow to Teesside on the afternoon service today. A total of 11 passengers on board on a 37 seater!

[highwideandugly]

Independent quoted this morning that the airport lost £920 for every passenger last year !Ouch🤪

[tigertanaka]

These figures in the Independent article appear to come from the same source as those in the Northern Echo the other day. However the 2020/21 accounts have not been filed with Companies House yet (and are not due until December) so I guess that they have been leaked to the media by someone with an agenda.

[SWBKCB]

According to the Gazette:An updated business plan for the airport has been released showing fresh targets for the site in the wake of covid and the departure of operator Stobart - now Esken - in July. The 16-page document forecasts the airport is on track to meet and surpass its pre-pandemic targets - and hit revenues of £30.5m by 2025. But the report also detailed how covid had hit the publicly-owned airport hard - with a £13.8m loss in the previous financial year.

If it has been released, anybody know where it can be found? Anyway, irrespective of whether it's been leaked or released, doubt whether the numbers will change.

[tigertanaka]

I just found the business plan: https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/TIA-Business-Plan-redacted-002.pdf. Not unexpected to see the redactions for the financial forecasts but there are also some on the routes - maybe more to be announced soon?

[highwideandugly]

Great bed time reading!

Why oh why is the financial aspects of the airport plan so covert?

If the airport is to succeed.its got to be in the public domain..shouting from the roof tops,open and free with honest scrutiny?

We all know the money that has been spent would have helped the region much more.Everyone would love a vibrant, go ahead and successful airport..but sometimes,common sense should be applied?🤔

[GrahamK]

Why has today's Ryanair from Faro diverted to NCL without even attempting to land at MME? Short staffed?


EDIT: talk of a light aircraft crash. Hope everyone ok

[Gunfighter52]

Light aircraft accident on the runway, airport closed.

[LBIA]

Due to the said accident Teeside Airport is to remain closed until Monday, Sep 27th

[The Flying Stool]

Thoughts are with those affected in the accident today. I wish them a speedy recovery.

However, would Heathrow or even Newcastle be closed for 2 days following an incident? Slightly different circumstances but following the BA777 crash at Heathrow in 2008, they were fully operational again that evening, using a shortened runway length on 27L.

[SWBKCB]

Presumably required by the AAIB to do their investigations, doubt the airport have much say in the matter. And this accident is located on the runway.

[10 DME ARC]

An AA5? Total overkill? I experienced a few accidents during my 38 years in the industry and never closed an airport for this length of time for a small aircraft? Unless fuel contamination or some other influence the airport could have had on the accident aircraft? In fact fuel contamination can be checked very quickly! In my experiences with AAIB they are very aware of the need to re-open the airport and very happy to move light aircraft, but I left the UK in 2008 so things could have changed?

[onion]

So Beafer does that mean the short term debt has now been consolidated into a long term debt?

The majority of debt is owed to the group, or in other words the Majors office!
This type of financing is very common, look at Manchester United when the Glaziers bought it, they saddled their purchase debt onto the club!

Look on companies house!

[SWBKCB]

The airport was bought with taxpayers money, and the debt is funded by the taxpayer. It comes out of the Mayor's investment fund, so as Highwideandugly has meantioned on a number of occasions, money spent on the airport is taxpayers money that isn't being spent in other parts of the Tees Valley. Hasn't the Mayor said that if the airport fails i.e. can't repay its debts, it will be closed/sold for housing?

[N707ZS]

If he closes it the locals won't forgive him.

[highwideandugly]

I would think the locals also won’t forgive him for spending towards £100 million pounds, which has been said many times on here could have been filtered into the local economies of the area?

It’s always seemed like a personal vanity vote winning project.The PR spin is actually quite embarrassing at times.

[SWBKCB]

Or as the Sex Pistols said: "A cheap holiday in other people's misery!"

[onion]

But what you fail to see is that it is an asset, and currently the debt is £60m+ but the assets are worth £50m+ so the actual equity (difference between the two) is -£10m.
These are readily available figures.

The debt will be structured in the business plan. On top of this like has been mentioned the airport is owned effectively by the taxpayer.

Unlike a pure commercial airport where the loans by the taxpayer are often well down the list (when it comes to calls on assets if it were to go bust) there is a fixed charge at Teesside from the Tees Valley Combined Authority. Again this is information readily available.
Fixed charges basically push you up the list of creditors! So at Teesside Airport, in theory simply put the airport owes itself the debt! So with Teesside you really need to look at equity and not debt..... and before anyone say you never get the equity out when selling off assets through admin, I know, but the doom and gloom and the political point scoring is boring!

[onion]

Just for clarification I am looking at Goosepool 2019 Limited as this is the owner Teesside International Airport Limited and has been identified as the finacial vehicle. Teesside International Airport Limited reports into Goosepool 2019 Limited.

[tigertanaka]

August CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 11,756 (compared to 9,390 last month, 2,529 passengers in August 2020 and 12,284 in August 2019)

Aberdeen: 2,722 (up 98% on August 2019)
Belfast City: 1,198 (best month yet)
Bristol: 524 (includes 79 charter)
Jersey: 654 (down 11% on Aug 2019)
Heathrow: 1,185 (best month yet)
Newquay: 666 (best month yet)
Alicante: 1,775 (1,061 in July)
Amsterdam: 457 (375 in July)
Corfu: 495 (152 in July)
Faro: 702 (315 in July)
Palma: 1,161 (1,082 in July)

There were also 1,066 transfer passengers not included in the above figures (we know that 593 pax flew HUY-ABZ with a stop at MME so the vast majority of the other 473 transit passengers must have been going to Bristol).

Aberdeen is the stand out route, August was it's best month since November 2017 and loads of 19.3 pax per flight is the best since mid 2014. Let's see what happens to the numbers now that Eastern are no longer around. Belfast continues to do well with an average 20 passengers per flight last month. Heathrow is up yet again but the numbers are still poor - anecdotally, business travel has picked up in September so let's see how this develops. Newquay was very slightly down on both last year and last month (although 2 fewer rotations in August than in July).

Amsterdam continued to struggle - 457 passengers is around 19 people per flight. Alicante was very strong especially with loads of just under 100 per flight. Twice weekly Faro is underperforming versus once weekly Corfu (which is not currently bookable for 2022).

[N707ZS]

How does the Teesside debt compare to Newcastle.

[highwideandugly]

It doesn’t!

[N707ZS]

Newcastle debt hasn't been mentioned for some time.

[onion]

Last set of filed accounts show Newcastle Airport Local Authority Holding Company owing £427m!
The total equity in the business was shown as -£166m!

On the flip side the debt is being serviced and the airport made a profit in the year ending 2019 of over £7m

Most of the debt though is owed to non governmental institutions and there is the commercial interest rates to contend with. Some over 8%.

Some of the debt was restructured in 2016.

The concern here is Newcastle are in a sticky position if one of the commercial lenders go into admin and they call the loan in so to speak!
The last return I could find showed the local councils as the shareholders. So in theory there shareholding is worthless.

It is worth noting too that a £153m bank loan is to be repaid in full in 2023.
The company has pension liabilities of £12m and owes the tax man £20m odd in deferred tax (although this is legitimate tax planning)

Interesting to say the least.

[stewyb]

Difference being here is that NCL will always be able to service its debt easier than MME as it will continue to be guaranteed pax traffic in far greater volume

[onion]

Possibly, but Teesside's debt isnt to commercial companies and the mayor is much more likely to write it off!
Try asking a commerical lender to write off £153m!

[highwideandugly]

Yes a debt write off will certainly please the majority of the Teesside taxpayer😀

£153 million to be repaid in two years will be interesting, I would guess another refinancing?

[SWBKCB]

The Newcastle debt is a different beast, it can be serviced from income and there is a track record of good performance (in normal years anyway). Teesside is different in that it is the speculate to accumalate, "build it and they will come" approach - there is no ssuch track record to support the investment. So a lot of money has now been spent on refurbishing the terminal etc. However, the Mayor's pitch was that any serious industrial area had to have its own airport to give business good links and to attract inward investment. I'm not sure that the money that's been spent was needed for this business orientated approach, has bothered the likes of KLM for years. He now needs the likes of Ryanair to build the throughput that will keep the bars etc busy during the rest of the day. As has been said many times the issue with the airport is the money can only be spent once - were there better uses for taxpayers money than building nice bars for Teessiders to sit in before they go on their holidays (a deliberatley cheap shot, but you get my point). He now needs to build the throughput so that the ancillary's like car parking, bars and shops to pay off the debt.

And that's just the passengers - I see in the news last week that the airport say that the southside access road will be started "in a few weeks". How many times is that now?

[onion]

Well I hope that they have £153m laying around as that part seems to only have its interest serviced, also as you say times have changed and the lender may not wish to refinance!

Also if the money for Teesside is written off there is still the asset and it was upto the mayor to put that money somewhere! Basically the mayors office (taxpayer) owns the airport. If it makes money they will get that money back to be reinvested in another project.

At Teesside as long as the business plan goes to plan :ok: the taxpayers will have that money back to reinvest.
At Newcastle if they paryback the loans it goes to a commerical lender and not back to the area to be reinvested!

[SWBKCB]

Yes, as a commercial business Newcastle don't have their own magic money tree and so have to borrow commercially, but have also been paying dividends to their shareholders - including the local authorities - over the years. The big 'if' is if and when Teesside makes a profit. And whether the best use of taxpayers money is providing competition to commercial businesses, and whether that is the best use of the big bucket of taxpayers money when there are so many other priorities on Teesside.

[onion]

But that's the point, Teesside is being run as a commercial business and has a business plan.

My question to you then is how is Newcastle going to pay the £153m back if lenders decide that there is too much risk post Covid?

Just so you are aware as well as I'm guessing you havent taken the time to read these accounts yourself. Newcastle Airport actually owes the councils £70m+ which between 2018 and 2019 wasnt actually paid down on either. So Newcastle have had money from a magic money tree as you put it!

[mmeman]

I am not sure I understand the issue with this using of 'taxpayers' money for the airport. The money used was funding from central government that was given to the Tees Valley Combined Authority - it is then up to the authority how that money is spent. The Mayor was elected on the promise to buy the airport - which he delivered on. He was then re-elected with a landslide victory, and so it seems to me that a majority of the Tees Valley taxpayers were quite happy with how the central government funding was being used in the Tees Valley - and of course this funding from the government has been spent on lots of other things that benefit the region, like Teesworks, Middlesbrough and Darlington station railway upgrades to name a couple - you sometimes get the impression people think all the money was spent just on the airport. Totally agree that the political point scoring it is very tedious, and also don't really understand the undercurrent that is sometimes evident that people on an aviation forum would like to see the airport fail - an airport providing employment in the aviation industry so isn't that good for everyone in the aviation community?

[onion]

Mmeman you ve hit the nail on the head exactly.
Teesside are showing it as something to be repaid and hopefully it will over time but as you say the money was there to be invested and Ben was elected originally with the promise of buying the airport, which he did. He was subsequently re elected!

Teesside haven't had anymore than the northern neighbour from the taxpayer so to speak!

The employment benefits are good for everyone as the airport provides many well paid jobs and hopefully this will increase, benefiting the whole region.

[Cautious Optimist]

As far as taxpayer money being spent on the airport goes, the more the merrier I say. But, some people seem to think money from central government is different to taxpayer money, even Ben has said as much, but surely it's our taxes that create this central pot, no?

[highwideandugly]

Looks like Heathrow reduced to 2 per day until May?
Wonder if the recall of slots by BA is starting to have an effect..passenger numbers have been very disappointing?
Might encourage KLM to increase?

[SWBKCB]

THE details of a brand new viewing platform at Teesside Airport have been revealed as plans show how it will take shape on the roof of the terminal building. An impressive two-storey Sky Bar and outdoor viewing platform is set to open by next summer as work will begin in coming weeks. The development, which will be open to visitors and accessible from the main entrance, will replace the outdated existing viewing platform to the right of the terminal.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19604008.impressive-rooftop-viewing-platform-teesside-airport-will-look/

[tigertanaka]

Clearly this will keep the spotting community happy but is there enough demand these days for landside bars at airports? Obviously the airport expecting passenger numbers to pick up substantially but in the 6 times I have used the airport this year I have never actually seen anyone in the existing landside cafe. Surely the idea is to get passengers checked in and through security as quickly as possible in order to reduce delays (and get them spending money in the shops).

[SWBKCB]

Clearly this will keep the spotting community happy - is such a thing possible? :rolleyes:

Presumably they've crunched the numbers. Move staff around to serve the spectators while demand for the airside bars is low between flights? Might make sense while the terminal is running under capacity but the trick is doing it when the terminal gets busy - Southend is the most recent example of "oh what a quick and easy airport to use" quickly changing to "endless queues, no shops, the bars/cafes are rammed"

[LGS6753]

Unfortunately, spotters tend not to spend much. They will stay for hours and eat home-made sandwiches. That's the reason the spectator's terminal at Luton closed - it just didn't pay.

[Cautious Optimist]

It will do well with the general public who always appreciate a view at the airport, but you'll probably find the die-hard enthusiasts continue to favour the short-stay car park fence-line or the various south-side locations.

[BA318]

Lots of airports in Germany, Switzerland and Poland make it work. MAN seems to do well with the viewing park. So it must be possible to do it.

[N707ZS]

They should ask Willis for some aircraft bits to fit the place out.

The days of spotters with sandwiches are long gone, just going up not knowing what you are going to see is a thing of the distant past. Most know exactly what is due and when.

[AirportPlanner1]

LGS6753

True spotters probably wouldn’t be in a dedicated viewing area unless it happened to be alongside a runway or something. If done right viewing areas can be a destination for a day out, like Stansted in the old days at the old terminal. Activity at a ‘busy’ Teesside probably wouldn’t be far off those levels.

In Europe at smaller airports there are also a few examples of bars/restaurants that are worthy of a visit in their own right.

[Cuillin Hills]

Just 20 minutes up the road is the delightful GA airfield of Fishburn - it also has a lovely cafe/restaurant that is popular amongst locals (and not so local people).

Views are available of the activity at the airfield.

The restaurant is open for most of the day, and throughout the week, producing good quality food - why can’t Teesside Airport main terminal offer similar?

An opportunity to encourage people to the airport who wouldn’t normally come - perhaps someone is thinking ‘outside of the box’ here?

Best of luck to them.

[highwideandugly]

It’s a great idea..you need to get the youth of today actually interested in something other than mobile phones!

I wonder what level of security will be needed? Can the airport afford a dedicated security person/desk all day?

[oldart]

Do other airports have security in viewing areas, I have never seen any? I would imagine it will be the same as the current viewing place, none.

[BA318]

The one at Warsaw has no security and is behind glass. The ones at Zurich and Dusseldorf have airport style security and I think charge a fee (not much). A simple way to cover the costs.

[tigertanaka]

Amsterdam has no security (landside) and is outside (it's on the roof where the old KLM Fokker 50 is located). However this and WAW/ZRH/DUS are all far far bigger airports than Teesside is aiming to be.

[SWBKCB]

or looking at the images in the article it could just be a landside bar with an outdoor smoking area. Wonder what the return on investment period is?

[SWBKCB]

The airport can't post anything on social media without somebody mentioning the Loganair ABZ price hikes...

[tigertanaka]

Mayor: "touch wood, we are about to announce a new carrier coming in"

Interview with Ben Houchen contains a lot of background on the rationale for the airport acquisition (especially the political side of things). This quote is at 37:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiZzc40Nat8

In the world of airport/airline doublespeak, I wonder if Eastern would be classed as a new carrier? I guess if they are still looking at 300k pax next year then it might be a bigger one...

[N707ZS]

I don't think the Major is that dumb to bring Eastern in as a new carrier. A certain long time route hasn't got any cover at the moment it might be something to do with that or the neighbouring Islands.

[P330]

Really interested to see what the new carrier will be. Anyone have any guesses?

Hope it’s not competition on an existing route....

There does seem to be a lack of Wizz Air presence in the North East....

[mmeman]

Interesting change from KLM in December - Mon, Thu, Fri, Sun flights at 12.15 departure from Amsterdam and 12:55 departure from Teesside - hopefully will help connections - always thought it was a bit strange that KLM deem the late afternoon rotation to be the weakest from Teesside which is why they drop it in July and August, but then operate it when demand is even lower.

[P330]

With the world opening, I am looking at booking a couple of scheduled trips with KLM. Have to say I have no confidence in the schedule at all and maybe forced to book from Newcastle which I desperately don’t want to do.

[tigertanaka]

KLM will move you to NCL or LBA if the Teesside flight gets cancelled. I would do some screenshots of the ex-NCL/LBA prices just before you book though as there is normally a premium for flying from MME and you could argue for the fare difference back.

[highwideandugly]

So are KLM still only operating the 4 flights per week? Thought it was planned to be back to full schedule then?

[P330]

Looks like full schedule now pushed back to January. So, one flight a day at most until then.

[highwideandugly]

Thanks..for that. So many delays..can’t see normality until Summer schedule 2022?

[P330]

Can’t disagree. I have to keep reminding myself that even though things are improving for entry into the UK, there are still significant and different requirements for each destination country. It’s a complicated picture....

[N707ZS]

Local radio if full of fly KLM from Newcastle so advertising is slacking again.

[highwideandugly]

Three flights per day from Newcastle for last few months…also B737-900 tomorrow! Are KLM loosing interest in TIA since Loganair started Heathrow?

[SWBKCB]

I thought the MME KLM service had relied upon business travellers from the oil/chemical related industries transferring onto the network, and the rest just filled up the cheap seats. I would expect they have a very good idea of where they make their money and adjust the schedule accordingly.

[gdiddy]

WizzAir would make an excellent addition to Teesside, especially if they customise the timetable to the UK leisure traveller, like they have done with the base that is due to open at Cardiff... However I don't see them opening a base there anytime soon, but a few routes from their European bases for example in Warsaw, Krakow and Budapest could possibly happen?

WizzAir were expanding at a crazy rate in the UK last year, but I think they got their fingers burnt with the UK lockdown, and while travel was allowed within Europe earlier this year, the UK was late to the party and many existing routes from their other UK airports are only now just re-opening.

Also the Cardiff base was due to open in April this year and has been put back to summer 2022.

The airline seems very keen to expand its new base at Gatwick as/when slots brcome available, and I also read somewhere (it could however be rumours), they had applied for slots at Manchester and additional ones at Birmingham. So they seem to have a lot cooking in the UK, so think WizzAir at Teesside if it ever happens, will be some time away.

Airlines like WizzAir will also drive an extremely hard bargain to get them to fly from Teesside, and it all depends if the airport would be willing to lower the fees to what they would demand.

The airline is also extremely ruthless, if routes do not achieve the bookings they demand, they will not hesitate to pull a route or withdraw from an airport at a moments notice. They are the kind of airline that will not gradually ramp up growth, they expect full aircraft from the word go!

[N707ZS]

gdiddy we have a Conservative Mayor with a pot of cash so he could tempt them with that.

[Atlantic Explorer]

I don’t think his pot is anywhere near big enough!

[tigertanaka]

I am not sure that if Wizz do turn up at Teesside, we will see them running Eastern European routes - there just is not the Polish/Romanian immigrant population like we see in places like South & West Yorkshire and of course post Brexit, there will be less migration in the future. Prague did 2,800 pax a month in 2004 with BMI Baby and Warsaw did around 2,600 pax a month in 2007-2008 (Wizz I think) but these are the only Eastern European city routes that has done any sort of numbers through Teesside in recent times.

Amsterdam apart, Teesside does not have a strong history of flying to city break type destinations and only Dublin (coming next year) Rome, Paris and Cork have demonstrated any sort of demand for at least a twice weekly service. But that was all in the past, maybe places like Budapest or Gdansk could work these days?

As for the holiday routes, the unserved places that have regularly done more than 10k pax a year out of Teesside in the past 20 odd years are (in order): Tenerife, Ibiza, Malaga, Las Palmas, Mahon, Arrecife, Dalaman, Reus, Gerona and Bodrum. I guess these will be the sort of destinations where any new airline would be looking at. Unfortunately all of these are served by both Newcastle and Leeds Bradford so there is the danger of getting into a price war.

[oldart]

Maybe if Ryanair don't take up some of the holiday routes mentioned, Wizz maybe are the airline that could fit in to operate out of MME. I believe their nearest base is Doncaster so having one in the centre of the NE might just work, there must be a good proportion of people using NEW/LBA and living in the Tees area would certainly return to MME if the flights restarted.

[gdiddy]

Now Wizz Air have created a UK registered company, they are not just flying to Eastern Europe...

Their new Cardiff base does not fly to a single East European city, they fly to Larnaca, Sharm El Sheikh, Corfu, Crete, Faro, Palma, Alicante, Tenerife and Lanzarote. IF Teesside were ever considered a base for Wizz Air, I would imagine a similar kind of route network.

They are basing a single A321 at Cardiff, I would imagine an A320 might be more suitable for Teesside.

From Luton and Doncaster they are also flying to beach destinations in countries like Turkey, Malta, Croatia Bulgaria and Italy.

[Robert-Ryan]

The website cock-up the other day revealed a number of password-protected pages for prospective airlines, and Wizz were as good as confirmed as you could see a marketing campaign had already been created

[tigertanaka]

For those who have not seen it, here is a link to the airlines mentioned in the website "cock-up": https://twitter.com/TeesTraveller/status/1447912134885711875

It does look like these are marketing pitches more than anything more serious so maybe it is best to look at them in that frame of mind. However, you can't fault the airport for ambition.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Air Transat and Qatar? Someone’s having a laugh surely!

[SWBKCB]

As Tigertanaka says, no harm in trying and you can sort of make an arguement for all of them to at least be serving the north-east, if not MME. If anything, Binter looks the odd one out unless their approach has changed - Lille is the northern outlier on their network - Vueling already serve NCL, but we don't know how old the 'data' is.

[airhumberside]

Binter strike me as a rather good choice for MME to target. They are expanding into longer range routes with their new E2's and seem to be looking for unserved (and underserved) markets from the Canaries

[tigertanaka]

Pute speculation on my part but doesn’t this sound like the airport needed a cash injection, the TVCA were happy to stump up their share of the cash, Stobart/Esken couldn’t/wouldn’t find the money (or any charge against their shares would have made the shareholding worthless) so effectively handed back their 25% of the business?

[SWBKCB]

No - Stobart never had any money in the airport.

[tigertanaka]

They might not have put any money in but a 25% shareholding in Goosepool 2019 would typically mean that Stobart would be committed to their share of the day to day funding (even if it were only on paper) beyond what had already been put in place for the running of the airport.

[Gunfighter52]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/first-look-new-offices-teesside-21928487?fbclid=IwAR07phsGwQ2ftc8hNZ99FZPuGf8xHhfRdZROSVjuWr-WfFTiMPcFE3LzrAw

[N707ZS]

Freight hub is the draftee old hangar 3, no idea why they just didn't build a new one. Will be interesting to see where the new offices are located and who eventually takes them up once the TVCA stop bed jumping.

[highwideandugly]

“Loganair is so far the only airline to receive money from a £4.5m Department for the Economy scheme to support Northern Ireland’s domestic air connectivity, Business Telegraph can reveal. The Scottish airline told the Belfast Telegraph it has received money for four Belfast City Airport routes under the NI Domestic Aviation Kickstart Scheme (NIDAKS), which closes in less than a fortnight. It flies to Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness and Teesside International in England from Belfast”

This On the Loganair site..if loads are as poor as noted..how long will this keep going for I wonder?
Mayor might have to dig deeper into his pockets?🤔

[N707ZS]

If that doesn't work they should have concentrated on Bristol.

[tigertanaka]

I went for a run around the airport yesterday. There appears to be something being built inside Hanger 3 - the outside shell does looks far past it's best but maybe it was cheaper to put something inside it than knock it down?

From the images, I think the TVCA offices will be on the right hand side of the terminal as you face it from the car park - where the nightclub/cafe was. The Skybar looks to be part of this development.

As for BHD, Loganair would have known that the money was going to go away soon, which could explain the cut from 6 a week (Summer) to 4 a week (Winter) - although it is planned to go back to 5 a week next summer.

[N707ZS]

Even though the work has started there seems to be no applied or passed planning applications. The new offices are on the location of the old works building near hangar 3.

[SWBKCB]

I think there are new offices for the freight building (hangar 3). The new offices mentioned in the airports press release are definitely as described in TT's post above if you watch the video.

There was change of use planning permission for Willis and FedEx to change places but nothing seems to have happened with that.

[N707ZS]

That is happening both hangars are receiving work.

[tigertanaka]

KLM back to double daily from January. Early flight at 06:05 and mid morning flight at 10:40. 3 daily still showing on klm.com but this looks a bit more reliable to me.

https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/time-is-right-for-klm-to-boost-schiphol-connections-from-teesside/

[tigertanaka]

September CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 10,610 (compared to 11,756 last month, 3,199 passengers in September 2020 and 14,372 in September 2019)

Aberdeen: 1,759 (up 102% v Sep last year & up 15% v Sep 2019)
Belfast City: 797 (up 102% v last yr)
Bristol: 384
Jersey: 577 (up 232% v Sep last year & up 49% v Sep 2019)
Heathrow: 1,402 (up 377% v Sep last year & best month yet)
Newquay: 519 (up 38% v Sep last year)
Alicante: 1,668 (1,775 in August)
Amsterdam: 587 (down 30% v Sep last year & down 95% v Sep 2019)
Corfu: 797 (495 in August)
Faro: 991 (702 in August)
Palma: 995 (1,161 in August)

There were also 562 transfer passengers not included in the above figures but as Eastern pulled out at the start of September, the vast majority of these must have been Loganair passengers transiting between Bristol and Aberdeen.

Aberdeen is growing year on year but has dropped 35% from August, reflecting Eastern's withdrawal and the price increases. Loads are holding up at nearly 18 per flight (23 if you include the Bristol passengers) which is very strong compared to what has been seen over the past 5 years. Belfast is also up year-on-year but down compared to August, however still seems to be performing well. Perhaps no surprise that Bristol has been pulled as numbers (excluding charters) on this route on the last 5 months have been 69, 362, 350, 445 and 384 - this is about 7 passengers per flight and must be unsustainable with the loss of the Bristol-Aberdeen transfer passengers now that Loganair have restored their direct Bristol-Aberdeen service. Heathrow numbers continue to show gradual improvement (up 18% v August) and are the highest since the reintroduction of the service but are still below expectations. As expected, Jersey and Newquay were both a bit down on August due to fewer rotations but loads on both routes were the strongest they have been all year.

Hard to judge Amsterdam, 587 passengers is the best month of the year but I think KLM only ran 18 flights in September compared to around 160 a month in pre-covid times and it is hard to see us getting back to 10,000 passengers a month any time soon. Ryanair carried 4,411 passengers in September versus 4,133 in August which is encouraging although it is hard to understand what passenger numbers and loads should be right now. However looking at August (September rotations not yet available), Teesside actually had higher loads for Alicante than either Leeds or Newcastle!