Teesside-2

[highwideandugly]

So it’s win win?

[Beafer]

As far as I remember it was operating profit which would be used to repay the loans to the Tees Valley mayoral office.
The debt is mostly the loans, the figure to look at is the equity, the debt against the asset. At the last set of accounts it stood at -£10m (that figure at the time is a little high too as there is a provision for liability that may never materialise of £3m too) meaning that the debts are more than the assets, but this is an asset that is owned by that office so they have in a crude way only spent £10million on the place. As if it were to go under they would still own the asset. Or as was said it would be turned into housing/commerical development again owned by the Tees Valley Mayoral office.

I still think the way the current mayor is handing over assets and land to private companies will be what happens to the rest of Teesside.

Someone needs to investigate how the public assets are being given away to private operators? Remember its tax payers money that bought the airport off Peel. Losing £13m a year of the same public money is crazy.

[SWBKCB]

So it’s win win?

It's only win win if the money couldn't have been better spent elsewhere and if the TVCA gets to benefit from the assetts. What's the position on the ownership of the southside development?

[onion]

I still think the way the current mayor is handing over assets and land to private companies will be what happens to the rest of Teesside.

Someone needs to investigate how the public assets are being given away to private operators? Remember its tax payers money that bought the airport off Peel. Losing £13m a year of the same public money is crazy.

Rather than accusing on here take it to your MP or relevant authority or even Police.

Do you have any evidence? I'm not saying private companies haven't been set up outside of the TVCA but are these companies owning the asset or are these companies just operators of the asset?

[Grumpy1]

Only this week the MP for Stockton stood up in Parliament and asked for a enquiry into the desision to hand the assets of the Teesworks to the Mayors donors who are now alleged to be receiving income that the taxpayer may have expected. The Mayor responded with abuse rather than invite scrutiny. It is reported that the south side development was handed over in a similar way. A little more transparency would be healthy.
Private Eye produced another detailed report this week with criticisms of the Mayor, raising concerns of what has been occurring.

[highwideandugly]

Yes Private Eye are certainly like Bloodhounds on the trail!
Experience tells us they usually aren’t a million miles away from the truth when they sense perceived unfairness or strange irregularities!

Think they are concentrating more on Tees-works and the Freeport than the airport? But the amount of money spent on the facilities have been mentioned.

[N707ZS]

Only this week the MP for Stockton stood up in Parliament and asked for a enquiry into the desision to hand the assets of the Teesworks to the Mayors donors who are now alleged to be receiving income that the taxpayer may have expected. The Mayor responded with abuse rather than invite scrutiny. It is reported that the south side development was handed over in a similar way. A little more transparency would be healthy.
Private Eye produced another detailed report this week with criticisms of the Mayor, raising concerns of what has been occurring.
The farmer hasn't been paid for the land which the new Southside road is being built on with dubious planning permissions.

[SWBKCB]

The farmer hasn't been paid for the land which the new Southside road is being built on with dubious planning permissions.

Planning permission decision seems to have been last November?

https://www.developmentmanagement.stockton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=R6MES7PK00900

[Cautious Optimist]

Whilst you expect a certain level of aviation-based criticism, some on here need to take their whining elsewhere. If anyone has a problem with how much money we're getting, where it's being spent or who the Mayor is giving what to, I would suggest this is not the forum for you

[Harold77]

Private Eye produced another detailed report this week with criticisms of the Mayor, raising concerns of what has been occurring.

Funny how the Private Eye articles are pretty much word for word of articles created by Tees Valley Monitor, the lad behind it is a staunch Labour supporter/ activist. That tells you all you need to know.

[Grumpy1]

So we should ignore articles by accredited journalists who you have concluded dont share your political views then? I understand now.

[Harold77]

If his articles weren't all one sided then I'd take notice. But since they are all attacking the Tories then it is hard to see credibility, as he won't do any articles about Labour whatsoever even if Labour stuff are far far more shocking he won't do an article. He calls himself unbiased but yet shows real bias.

There is another local journalistic page that shows no bias whatsoever and goes after all manner of issues no matter what political alligence. So have real credibility.

[SWBKCB]

The usual approach on Pprune is to play the ball not the man.

I've not seen any of the issues raised in TVM tackled on a point by point basis, just the blanket "oh it's biased" response followed by classic "whataboutery".

What's the other site you are referring to?

[Jamesair1]

This thread, unfortunately, seems to now be more about scoring political points than about the airport with most contributors seeming to want its closure......very sad indeed.

[SWBKCB]

This thread, unfortunately, seems to now be more about scoring political points than about the airport with most contributors seeming to want its closure......very sad indeed.

Really? You can see criticism of the way it is run, but I don't think any of the regular contributors want it closed. To say 'most' isn't sensible

[AirportPlanner1]

If someone is having a pop at a Private Eye article or the person who cited such an article it suggests the bias problem is their own and the truth is inconvenient to their own agenda. Just because a Labour activist highlights something, doesn’t mean it isn’t true. There’s plenty of reporting on Labour (and other parties) anyway, especially in the Rotten Borough section.

[Grumpy1]

Private Eye frequently and often criticise the Labour politicians. Never heard anybody seriously suggest that PE are left wingers but guess making this allegation is a way of avoiding the subject.
If the airports principal benefactor becomes the subject of criticism and ridicule it will reflect on the airport so if you support the airport the allegations need to be addressed.

[Jamesair1]

Just the way it looks to me.........lately, I've seen nothing else but basically, ......"what a waste of resources...which could be better spent elswhere". I sincerely hope I'm misreading things.

[Cautious Optimist]

Problem with armchair experts is they think they can see the full picture, when in reality they're lucky if they can see 50%. If the airport was being run badly you would see changes being made at the top. People declare it as being run badly because it's not achieving what they think it should be achieving in an unrealistically truncated timeframe.

[SWBKCB]

So you have a greater overview do you, CO? Don't think it's unreasonable for folks to be able to express an opinion.

If the airport was being run badly you would see changes being made at the top.

Is this you confirming that this is why Stobart left? :ok:

[Harold77]

I never said Private Eye is biased. I said the source of the aricle (TVM) is biased. Take a look at the TVM site and you won't find a single story about Labour, he won't dish the dirt on Labour like he is doing with the Tories. Hence my bias claim.

As for me, I'm a political neutral.

[SWBKCB]

I never said Private Eye is biased. I said the source of the aricle (TVM) is biased. Take a look at the TVM site and you won't find a single story about Labour, he won't dish the dirt on Labour like he is doing with the Tories. Hence my bias claim.

As for me, I'm a political neutral.

But to repeat my previous comments - whether TVM is biased or not, nobody has refuted the points that have been made. There's an easy way to shut him up, prove him wrong.

[Grumpy1]

But Harold, the critical article is in Private Eye and was presumably vetted and approved by their lawyers. You are the one who introduced TVM, possibly as a deflection tactic?

[Cautious Optimist]

So you have a greater overview do you, CO? Don't think it's unreasonable for folks to be able to express an opinion.
At risk of becoming arrogant, certainly more than most on here but still not privy to the big picture by a long shot. The problem with opinion is too much of it is uneducated.

[Harold77]

Just the way it looks to me.........lately, I've seen nothing else but basically, ......"what a waste of resources...which could be better spent elswhere". I sincerely hope I'm misreading things.

I'm sick of them sort of comments as well. Some can only see the short term, not the long term outcomes.
Some just see the headline results after year end and don't even read the context of the outcomes.

[Harold77]

But Harold, the critical article is in Private Eye and was presumably vetted and approved by their lawyers. You are the one who introduced TVM, possibly as a deflection tactic?

I said it was literally word for word copy of TVM article. Not a deflection tactic.

Had to laugh when it says the company has no experience in running ports, just further in the article contradicts themselves by saying the company was the owners of docks/ quays in the area.

[SWBKCB]

I said it was literally word for word copy of TVM article. Not a deflection tactic.

Had to laugh when it says the company has no experience in running ports, just further in the article contradicts themselves by saying the company was the owners of docks/ quays in the area.

If you're referring to the article "Rich Tees" in the current edition of Private Eye, I'd suggest you go and read it again.

Also, TVM and Private Eye are covering similar subjects, so there's bound to be some crossover, but their articles are certainly not a word for word copy. Not seen any rebuttals to the points raised.

[highwideandugly]

Getting a bit heated guys!


The facts are.this airport, apart from a brief bonanza period of passenger throughput, but at not much profit..has struggled.

Departure board tells the story(yes other interests are now there)..”Aberdeen,Amsterdam and Alicante !

Too many airports chasing too few passengers.

A lot of money..local tax payers, government hand outs whatever…get real in the modern world ..people are genuinely struggling out there and not just here.but nationwide..investment could be better spent..HS2 anyone?

Sorry for rant!

[Beafer]

Talking to an airport worker today.

Word at the airport is that the man who likes to give his friends land and contracts, has discussed what it posted on PPrune. Rumour has it he posts, and asks the minions to post as well.

Private Eye know a thing or two when it comes to what can be printed. Any news on what the friends private company are planning for the rest of the south side land?

[onion]

Getting a bit heated guys!


The facts are.this airport, apart from a brief bonanza period of passenger throughput, but at not much profit..has struggled.

Departure board tells the story(yes other interests are now there)..”Aberdeen,Amsterdam and Alicante !

Too many airports chasing too few passengers.

A lot of money..local tax payers, government hand outs whatever…get real in the modern world ..people are genuinely struggling out there and not just here.but nationwide..investment could be better spent..HS2 anyone?

Sorry for rant!

Where do you think the money is going if not on jobs and contracts. Alot of aviation related jobs tend to better paid than the average.
Money spent on the airport is not just for a few passenger flights but is keeping well paid jobs with the likes of Draken, hopefully T2 and so much more.
It is also for the Tees Valley area not the wider North East.
The ultimate scrutiny is at the next mayoral election.
Don't forget that some of the money will have been given by central government for the airport specifically ie they put a bid in for the money, Not just for anything the Mayoral office sees fit and as such less money may of been given overall to the area, supporting less jobs!

[highwideandugly]

Onion..always thought you should be a politician 😀

The mayor will sail through, as he is doing such a fantastic ,upfront and responsible job.

[AirportPlanner1]

Don't forget that some of the money will have been given by central government for the airport specifically ie they put a bid in for the money, Not just for anything the Mayoral office sees fit

Fair point, although it’s been noted in certain media quarters that recipients in recent years have by amazing coincidence overwhelmingly been those in Conservative areas, particularly where they have slim majority’s or haven’t been blue very long. Not necessarily places with the best bids or in greatest need.

[onion]

Fair point, although it’s been noted in certain media quarters that recipients in recent years have by amazing coincidence overwhelmingly been those in Conservative areas, particularly where they have slim majority’s or haven’t been blue very long. Not necessarily places with the best bids or in greatest need.

Agreed, but there are some that think it's a pot of money for the mayor to throw at what he wants and it isn't always so.

[P330]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-london-flight-aspirationally-important-25992326

Some sensible narrative in the above article.

[SWBKCB]

Once we get to a point to demonstrate there is enough demand to put a flight on, we have numerous airlines who would be happy to put a flight on, but we have to get to that balance right. What we can’t do is subsidise it with huge amounts of public money.”

Numerous airlines? Wonder who?

Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/all-about/ben-houchen)also stressed that the numbers had to stack up. He said: “We don’t think it’s wise to subsidise routes that as soon as the subsidy is pulled then those routes fail.”

Thought he'd previously said routes weren't subsidised?

He added that Newcastle Airport and Leeds Bradford Airport had both recently cut flights to Heathrow. In December, it was announced that flights to Belfast and Dublin would be axed from Teesside Airport from March this year.

Airports don't cut flights, airlines do. Given the train times, all recent LBA-LHR flights have looked like slot sitters rather than commercially viable services. BA also regularly change NCL-LHR flights on a seasonal basis.

​​​​​​​Latest NCL stats for LHR - 2022-11 = 40.4k, 2019-11 = 39k



​​​​​​​

[P330]

I've sat back over the last couple of weeks and watched the posts and arguments flow.

Rather late to the party, and probably of no interest to anyone :), here are my thoughts.

Most arguments seem to based on two ends of the spectrum. Positive airport messaging v poor numbers/money better spent elsewhere. As ever in this world, the answers for me aren't in the black and white but in the grey and I actually think both narratives are correct.

Firstly, compared to where we were, the airport is doing fantastic. Passengers numbers are the highest in a decade, we have the most routes in a long time and the airport experience is a pleasure. Diversification of income is on the rise and prospects really look quite exciting. As a frequent flier and an aviation nerd - this is all fantastic news.

Any investment though is a risk and that risk was heightened by a certain virus in 2020. It was always going to take a few years to get to profit; even more so after Covid. But the fact is numbers are low. But they were always going to be. Where to invest money is always a choice. There are many needy projects that need investment in Teesside and yes, I am sure there are projects out there where the money invested could deliver a better return for a wider population. But the reality is the money has been invested here and now it has, it has to be given time to succeed. We can't un-invest it. And there is no benefit to keep arguing on the original decision.

Houchen made a brave call. He is doing well and I am pleased he made the decisions he did. I get repeatedly irritated by his one-sided political messaging and the endless positive photoshoots, but I guess that's the sleazy world of politics. He would do himself more favour (IMO) if he stood up and commented objectively on negative stories and stepped back from the limelight now and again. Jobs for mates remains a big concern and could be something that undoes him - he'd do well to keep his nose clean and out of Private Eye.

Anyway, based on what we know today, 2023 will be an ever bigger year. Even though we will lose some regional routes. As Harold says, plenty more news coming which will bolster the numbers.

So, I guess I agree with most of the comments on here. But arguing about the decisions of the past won't change anything and folks, we have a great little regional airport which is going places - I for one welcome that!!

[Jamesair1]

Well said and just about sums it up.

[Beafer]

Re the Gazette news, the public comments are predicting more news before the next election.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-london-flight-aspirationally-important-25992326

[Gunfighter52]

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/airport-says-it-with-flowers-as-new-freight-pass-secured-for-valentines-day/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Orlo

[SWBKCB]

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/airport-says-it-with-flowers-as-new-freight-pass-secured-for-valentines-day/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Orlo


Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen said: “This is a terrific gift for our airport with Valentine’s Day just around the corner. As one of the few Border Control Points in the country, we are now in a unique place to become a freight centre for businesses across the North.

​​​​​​​I get repeatedly irritated by his one-sided political messaging and the endless positive photoshoots, but I guess that's the sleazy world of politics. He would do himself more favour (IMO) if he stood up and commented objectively on negative stories and stepped back from the limelight now and again.

Full list of Plant BCP's on the link below - to save you looking, other airports in the north of England are Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Newcastle. Others in the rest of England include LHR, LGW, STN, LTN, EMA, BHX, SOU, BOH.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plant-imports-authorised-points-of-entry-to-the-uk/plant-imports-authorised-border-control-posts-in-the-uk

[onion]

Full list of Plant BCP's on the link below - to save you looking, other airports in the north of England are Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Newcastle. Others in the rest of England include LHR, LGW, STN, LTN, EMA, BHX, SOU, BOH.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plant-imports-authorised-points-of-entry-to-the-uk/plant-imports-authorised-border-control-posts-in-the-uk

MME are licensed for Plant products only, but NCL and LBA have Wood Products and other items, they aren't licensed for plant products.

So there isn't necessarily duplication.

[Beafer]

The Public comments on this article speak volumes about the airshow organisation. New houses bought! I think Private Eye will be doing another piece.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/bobs-battle-teesside-airshow-refund-26105589

[N707ZS]

I think we are bored with that. Beafer you need to ask your mates for some info on real goings on.

[Cautious Optimist]

I didn't wish to start a "Beafer bashing" but there is something infuriating about people posting bad news because it fits their agenda and/or they get pleasure from it as opposed to it being topical

[Beafer]

I think we are bored with that. Beafer you need to ask your mates for some info on real goings on.

I don't think the public who lost money due to the poor parking debacle will be bored! :rolleyes:

[Cautious Optimist]

No, but odds are they're not on this forum

[highwideandugly]

So that’s ok then!

[Harold77]

Willis Aviation Services

https://www.willislease.com/pdf/press-releases/2023/Base%20Maintenance%20Approval%20FINAL%20Press%20Release%202-1-23.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3gbtm0a5bMR934YAt_32G9Xy6neT56CJaBSlEh0zpK UqvBiD4IWlueNgA

[highwideandugly]

Loganair have applied to take over the vacated! FLY BE2 Slots into Heathrow.They would like to use them for regional connectivity..wonder if the mayor has any money left in his pot?

[oldart]

Loganair have applied to take over the vacated! FLY BE2 Slots into Heathrow.They would like to use them for regional connectivity..wonder if the mayor has any money left in his pot?
I thought that Loganair had already indicated that the Heathrow charges were too expensive for their airline.

[SWBKCB]

London - Derry has been mentioned, which is a PSO route.

The charges are only too expensive if there are insufficient people to pay a fare which covers them and allows the airline to make a profit. I expect that is the real issue

[oldart]

So it would seem that there was not enough revenue from the MME flights to sustain the route. The frequency of trains from Darlington have won over passengers who used to fly to London, probably happened at LBA as well.

[Grumpy1]

Was it not the mayor who tried to blame LHR for the demise of the route rather than Loganair?

[Cautious Optimist]

The route was growing, a 6am departure would have been even fuller, the route stopped because the subsidies stopped and airlines don't have the patience to nurture routes long term

Great news about the Ryanair frequency increases!

[SWBKCB]

The route was growing, a 6am departure would have been even fuller, the route stopped because the subsidies stopped and airlines don't have the patience to nurture routes long term

Great news about the Ryanair frequency increases!

Or airlines don't have the money to support loss making routes long term?

What are the Ryanair increases?

[tigertanaka]

The Ryanair "increases" are a bit of a Ryanair smokescreen

They say 14 weekly flights (4x PMI, 4x FAO, 4x ALC, 2x CFU) but they are counting both ways. It is the same number as last year.

[P330]

The Ryanair "increases" are a bit of a Ryanair smokescreen

They say 14 weekly flights (4x PMI, 4x FAO, 4x ALC, 2x CFU) but they are counting both ways. It is the same number as last year.

That's what I was thinking too. The Ryanair website only shows 7 weekly departures, so unless their website has not updated yet, this looks like media spin.

[P330]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/sunshine-routes-teesside-ryanair-confirms-26197436

Though this article says "four flights a week to and from Alicante" Certainly two ways to interpret that, so let's see.

[SKOJB]

‘To and from’ being the giveaway!

[N707ZS]

Interesting bit:Ryanair has announced a busy schedule of flights from Teesside this summer.

The low-cost airline (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/all-about/ryanair) is laying on 14 weekly flights to and from Teesside International Airport (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/all-about/teesside-international-airport), for holidaymakers seeking a bit of summer sun. Routes to destinations across Europe for 2023 include Spain's Costa Blanca, Corfu, Portugal and Majorca. From late March, there will be four Ryanair flights a week to and from Alicante, Faro and Palma and twice-weekly flights to and from Corfu.

[Cautious Optimist]

Should have read the article properly :ouch:

[jensdad]

‘To and from’ being the giveaway!
Aviation marketing folks never cease to amaze me. 10/10 for creativity, although honesty isn't always their strong point.

[SWBKCB]

New figures have revealed passenger numbers have hit their highest level since 2011 at Teesside International Airport. No fewer than 173,006 people used the terminal in 2022 – up more than 200% on the previous covid-hit year.

A refreshed business plan has forecast the airport will hit profit during the 2024/25 financial year. The revised vision also shows how the airport has exceeded its route development targets set out in the original 10-year turnaround plan.

While the passenger numbers aren't a shock, the return to profit forecast is interesting. Has anybody used the new fresh produce facility - KLM?

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/passenger-numbers-highest-for-more-than-a-decade-at-teesside-airport/

[N707ZS]

Has anybody used the new fresh produce facility
No they haven't.

[highwideandugly]

Has anyone sight of the refreshed business plan?

So many figures ! Can’t remember what the original said?
Profit in one year..that’s some going.

Did Ryanair recently also say that 2024 will continue the same program..if so..where is that profit going to come from….so many questions?

Plenty of flowers for Valentine’s Day inbound!

[SWBKCB]

No - Ryanair have recently 'confirmed' 2023 again.

Been on sale for a while, but gets their name in the paper.

Said nothing about 2024.

[fl dutchman]

Been looking at booking a holiday recently from Newcastle and have noticed that when you choose your departure airport in the drop down box or the tick box, that Teeside is not showing in alphabetical order now ie near the bottom.
Instead it has been moved directly above Newcastle so its the only airport shown not in alphabetical order. ( Hope that makes sense)
Wonder how that was achieved and will it be a benefit to Teeside.

[highwideandugly]

Makes sense….I know what you mean as I checked too!

Not sure if that’s good or bad…poor advance loads,subsidies or poor spelling! You choose!

[jensdad]

Been looking at booking a holiday recently from Newcastle and have noticed that when you choose your departure airport in the drop down box or the tick box, that Teeside is not showing in alphabetical order now ie near the bottom.
Instead it has been moved directly above Newcastle so its the only airport shown not in alphabetical order. ( Hope that makes sense)
Wonder how that was achieved and will it be a benefit to Teeside.
Not sure which website you were on so I can't check, but I'll hazard a guess it'll be down to the website listing airports by IATA code rather than name. Teesside's is MME - something to do with the airfield's previous name of RAF Middleton St George. One way to check might be to see if London Stansted (STN) is listed before or after is after somewhere like Manchester (MAN)?

[SWBKCB]

It's the TUI website and your theory works if you select bookings under the 'flights' tab (though London Airports are listed seperately). If you look under the 'holidays' tab, the airports are in alphabetical order.

[Grumpy1]

MME = Middlesbrough Municipal Airport. But MMA already in use so MME. Unrelated to Middleton St.George

[jensdad]

MME = Middlesbrough Municipal Airport. But MMA already in use so MME. Unrelated to Middleton St.George
I'm not sure where you got that from, but it sounds like a bit of retro-fit history to me? One or possibly both of the 'M's might have been related to the presence of Middlesbrough as the best-known town in Teesside, but the airfield has never been called Middlesbrough Municipal Airport.

[Grumpy1]

The history books say that the Middlesbrough Municipal name was dropped and the Tees-side (note the dash) name was adopted prior to opening.

[Harold77]

CAA December figures released today.

Aircraft Movements 1,333
Terminal Passengers 10,992

2022 Calendar Year Total
Aircraft Movements 20,319
Terminal Passengers 173,006

[mmeteesside]

Great to see the number of cargo flights steadily increasing too. 4 in the last week, with another scheduled tomorrow, mostly Metroliners but today’s was an Antonov An-26! Assume they’re all ‘just-in-time’ parts transfers for vehicle manufacturers (Nissan mostly, I guess!)

[N707ZS]

Nissan will eventually catch up with supply and the flights will dry up, they always have. The airport needs to find a full time cargo operation.

[SWBKCB]

The well publicised freight flights at the end of last year didn't make it in to the CAA stats

[highwideandugly]

Think most airports are looking for a full time freight/cargo operation..not sure why here is any different?

Bag of fag packet maths says average of 177 passengers per day departed the airport during December.
Seems a very long way off breaking even and or making a profit?

[Harold77]

The well publicised freight flights at the end of last year didn't make it in to the CAA stats

Think CAA only count freight when aircraft is over a certain weight.
Also CAA don't count traffic carried on Air Taxis, which I think these flights are operating as.

The Teesside Airport Movements website on the monthly stats page has cargo weights listed.

[ZULUBOY]

Think most airports are looking for a full time freight/cargo operation..not sure why here is any different?

Bag of fag packet maths says average of 177 passengers per day departed the airport during December.
Seems a very long way off breaking even and or making a profit?

As a curious observer I cannot see how it is feasible to sustain this

[SWBKCB]

As a curious observer I cannot see how it is feasible to sustain this

Are you assuming that the airport can only by sustained by passengers and freight? Think of it as an industrial estate/business park with a runway in the middleserving some aviation content and you'll be closer to the mark.

[Atlantic Explorer]

As a curious observer I cannot see how it is feasible to sustain this

You’re forgetting about the Mayors endless blank cheque book. Although word has it that it’s getting a trifle thin.

[onion]

Are you assuming that the airport can only by sustained by passengers and freight? Think of it as an industrial estate/business park with a runway in the middleserving some aviation content and you'll be closer to the mark.
That, plus Draken (Honey Badgers and Falcons), plus the clubs/schools, 2Excel, Calibrators, Medical flights and much more.
There are too many who just concentrate on pax flights.

[ZULUBOY]

Are you assuming that the airport can only by sustained by passengers and freight? Think of it as an industrial estate/business park with a runway in the middleserving some aviation content and you'll be closer to the mark.

Sure but doesn't it have to pay for Air Traffic Control and the fire service? They can't be cheap. I don't know if these are 24 hour cover

[SWBKCB]

That, plus Draken (Honey Badgers and Falcons), plus the clubs/schools, 2Excel, Calibrators, Medical flights and much more.
There are too many who just concentrate on pax flights.

Does anybody actually call them 'Honey Badgers'? :rolleyes:

The point I was making is that you can't judge the feasibility of these small regional airports by the number of passengers going through the terminal. The runway, ATC, fire etc, facilitate lots of other businesses as well, which create wealth, jobs for the region.

There is nothing wrong with the strategy of investing in the airport to get it to the point where it is self-sustaining, but it is arguable whether the right investments have been made so far (and I really hope the railway halt isn't next!)

[highwideandugly]

It’s all down to yearly contract prices then ?

Passenger flights alone would not provide enough revenue to keep the airport going.

However annual fixed price income from Willis,Fire School,Draken et al is massive..hence the current mayor/government investment.
When the subsidies dry up is when the problems arise.

As seen in the frequent comings and goings of scheduled flights.After many,many years..it remains a staple diet of the three ‘A’s’..Amsterdam,Alicante and Aberdeen?

[onion]

I would say that the "fixed price" contracts provide the security.
Honey Badger, L159 or ALCA, take your pick.
We dont know the situation with the subsidies so I'm not going to comment.
What I can see is Logan have consolidates the aircraft at NCL likely with another E145 thus reducing the need for engineer support at MME and lowering their cost base. They ll also be hoping for an uplift on the ABZ out of NCL as MME is going 1 a day. MME to ABZ is usually the stronger route than NCL to ABZ. So this is really a way of putting off another operator coming onto the MME-ABZ route.
None of the routes Logan operated were really attempted properly.
Any UK or Ireland, (except for the likes of Newquay and Jersey), route that is operated by the likes of Eastern or Logan needs to be twice a day to provide a true alternative to the train or flights from NCL or LBA.
Ryanair and the like are a different kettle of fish.
If that were to happen moving forward then we could say that it's been tried and failed.
Belfast 4 times a week with the alternatives up and down the road is not going to work.

[highwideandugly]

Good summary Onion.

The other airport problem.,for everyone, is that there is not much choice of UK airlines these days!

[SWBKCB]

So this is really a way of putting off another operator coming onto the MME-ABZ route.

Good summary Onion. The other airport problem., for everyone, is that there is not much choice of UK airlines these days!

I was thinking the same - who? There's only Eastern.

[N707ZS]

Will it be groundhog day with Eastern back on the Aberdeen with the J-41.

[mmeteesside]

Will it be groundhog day with Eastern back on the Aberdeen with the J-41.
I think one thing we do know is 4x a day on NCL-ABZ won’t be sustainable. It’ll be a question of who blinks first there… I wouldn’t mind betting Eastern will be back at Teesside soon

[Jamesair1]

Don't forget that in April. Passenger Tax will be cut by 50% on domestic routes....this will create a new dynamic for domestic operations and hopefully attract more passengers.

[highwideandugly]

Catch 22…industrial development on Teesside at the moment is in overdrive.

To quote Ben ‘ plenty of well paid ,secure ,good quality jobs for Teesside’. …might mean folk have no need to travel to Aberdeen for oil related jobs!
Stay local for renewable future proof ones!

Bit like the local railways and station investment…that must be detrimental to uk connectivity from the airport?

[Albert Hall]

Don't forget that in April. Passenger Tax will be cut by 50% on domestic routes....this will create a new dynamic for domestic operations and hopefully attract more passengers.

In a time of high inflation, it absolutely won't have any such impact. All it will do is reduce the amount by which airfares need to go up for routes to remain viable.

[Harold77]

I would say that the "fixed price" contracts provide the security.
Honey Badger, L159 or ALCA, take your pick.
We dont know the situation with the subsidies so I'm not going to comment.
What I can see is Logan have consolidates the aircraft at NCL likely with another E145 thus reducing the need for engineer support at MME and lowering their cost base. They ll also be hoping for an uplift on the ABZ out of NCL as MME is going 1 a day. MME to ABZ is usually the stronger route than NCL to ABZ. So this is really a way of putting off another operator coming onto the MME-ABZ route.
None of the routes Logan operated were really attempted properly.
Any UK or Ireland, (except for the likes of Newquay and Jersey), route that is operated by the likes of Eastern or Logan needs to be twice a day to provide a true alternative to the train or flights from NCL or LBA.
Ryanair and the like are a different kettle of fish.
If that were to happen moving forward then we could say that it's been tried and failed.
Belfast 4 times a week with the alternatives up and down the road is not going to work.

Great summary, think you have hit the nail on the head.

It looked really promising when Eastern launched its expansion of routes then Covid hit and ground everything to a halt. They never really got a chance to prove.

I think what some are thinking it has been 4 years since it was purchased, why isn't it more than what is there to show. What they are forgetting is that the whole world was shut down for more than a year and was very slow in opening back up and the bottom was ripped out of the travel and air industry. Very few airports are back to pre covid levels. For many places, a real take off didn't happen til March - April last year, even then was way off from pre pandemic levels til further into the summer.

I agree with you that most routes would really have benefitted if had at least twice daily flights to allow day trips meetings etc to happen and frequency that would make beneficial travel plans. Some routes daily, while some routes would suffice twice day three days a week.

I think Eastern had it right putting the E190 on the Heathrow route and would have had great figures as the industry recovered and opened back up. I think the E190 was the perfect aircraft size for the route.

[Grumpy1]

Harold compares the post Covid recovery of MME with the rest of the aviation industry but I cant think of another airport that has lost such a large proportion of of its routes after the pandemic yet others continue to grow.
He also reminds us that the whole world shut down due to Covid but this is not quite true as Teesside continued to operate vertually empty heavily subsidised flights. For example in lockdown 3 in Feb/Mar 2021, NCL operated 355 scheduled flights, LBA operated only 70 but MME operated 319. Perhaps there was a Mayoral election due?
He should also perhaps have remind us of the circumstances inwhich Eastern were evicted in favour of Loganair.

[Harold77]

Grumpy,
During April & May 2020 Teesside didn't have any passenger flights.

Teesside had to stay operational for National Security and Medical reasons.

Draken based at the Airport is used for training missions up against military pilots. Also Medical flight aircraft operated.

Hence the requirement for the airfield to remain operational.

More than just Passenger Operations at the airport.

[Grumpy1]

Have updated the post to correct the date to show the period prior to the election in May 2021.

[Harold77]

Wow, really amazing you completely changed the post after I completely debunked your comment about 2020.

Lets have a look:
February 2021:
Terminal Passengers 1,172 plus 350 Transit Passengers.
Aberdeen 973
Luton 72 (Charter)
Farnborough 61 (Charter)
Cardiff 66 (Charter)

Aircraft Movements 552, 128 Air Transport, 6 Charter


March 2021:
Terminal Passengers 1,559 plus 463 Transit Passengers.
Aberdeen 1,328
Heathrow 96
Southampton 71 (Charter)
Cardiff 64 (Charter)

Aircraft Movements 758, 184 Air Transport, 4 Charter

So for Feb & March 2021, 59 days that is:
312 Air Transport, 10 Charter Movements
Aberdeen 2,301
Heathrow 96
Charter 334
Transit 813 (Heathrow/ Aberdeen/ Humberside)

Total Passengers 3,544
Flights:
5 RTN Charter
17 RTN Heathrow
139 RTN Aberdeen & Humberside

[onion]

Just to be clear airports don't evict airlines as such. As I understand airlines make the decisions. Airports can influence the airlines.

[SWBKCB]

Just to be clear airports don't evict airlines as such. As I understand airlines make the decisions. Airports can influence the airlines.

You can question the terminology, but there is clearly a tale to tell there.

[onion]

You can question the terminology, but there is clearly a tale to tell there.
I'm sure there is given the arrival of Logan and then subsequent departure of Eastern.

[Get me some traffic]

Under the terms of an aerodrome license, the aerodrome has to be available to all during the published opening hours.
There is nothing to stop said aerodrome making things "easier" for a user.

[N707ZS]

Under the terms of an aerodrome license, the aerodrome has to be available to all during the published opening hours.
There is nothing to stop said aerodrome making things "easier" for a user.
There is also nothing to stop said aerodrome making things harder for a user, GA for example.

[BristolexFlyer]

Oh bore off! Never have so many posts been created about such minor pieces of information!

This is relentless! It could be ignored, but for regular forum attendees, it’s getting pretty tedious!

BristolexFlyer

[N707ZS]

Agreed...!

[Harold77]

Just one week to go til the Planning Committee meeting. Hopefully rubber stamping the development.

Council Planning Officials have recommended approval for the development.

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/25million-aviation-vision-to-bring-hundreds-of-jobs-recommended-for-approval-at-committee/

[Harold77]

Willis Aviation Village Planning Permission. APPROVED!

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23356560.project-build-new-aircraft-hangars-teesside-airport-approved/

[SWBKCB]

The locals who didn't want houses in those fields will be looking forward to their new view.

[Cautious Optimist]

I like how it's presented as instead of all the houses, when in reality its probably instead of about 60 odd max and they'll likely never be able to anything else with the remainder of the housing land

But yes very good news and even factoring in the new Draken hangar, probably the first major aviation development on the site during my lifetime!

[P330]

Realty good news!

Anyone know anything on timescales?

[SWBKCB]

Other than the hangars being in two phases - phase 1 for the 4 narrowbody hangars then the widebody hangar in phase 2, not seen any mention of dates or timescales.

[N707ZS]

The big question is do they employ someone with the ability to get the aircraft in to be worked on.

[SWBKCB]

The big question is do they employ someone with the ability to get the aircraft in to be worked on.

You know the answer to that - "Build it and they will come!" :ok:

[ted320]

Not sure where they plan to get all the experienced, time served engineers from to do 4 hangers worth of work?

[Diff Tail Shim]

Not sure where they plan to get all the experienced, time served engineers from to do 4 hangers worth of work?
Bet when they are built, Brexit is likely to be revoked. Or Willis starts training them like KLM UKE does.

[N707ZS]

Here's one,
https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/dambuster-adam-returns-home-to-willis-role-after-decade-in-air-force/

[Diff Tail Shim]

Here's one,
https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/dambuster-adam-returns-home-to-willis-role-after-decade-in-air-force/
If he has just come out of the military and has not worked on civvy aircraft, he is in for a shock. Been there and seen it. He is a beginner again. He will be in for a shock as the RAF has so dummed down aerospace engineering training compared to required for Civvy street. He better get used to taking off and putting on panels as a beginner.

[Buster the Bear]

Team Tempest will need a new base for the yet to be delivered 757 flying test bed to be operated by 2Excel Aviation. Not sure of the timescale, but the planned hangar at Donny is obviously no longer an option.

[Gunfighter52]

Team Tempest will need a new base for the yet to be delivered 757 flying test bed to be operated by 2Excel Aviation. Not sure of the timescale, but the planned hangar at Donny is obviously no longer an option.

The aircraft was scrapped at Lasham last year, so I'm not sure if the project is still alive.

[Asturias56]

I think someone on the Military threads said the program and the aircraft were still alive

[Gunfighter52]

The original ex Tui 757 that was earmarked for the program has definitely been scrapped, that is not to say that a new airframe has been allocated.

[P330]

Feels like March is a good time to be announcing new routes. On-line comments suggest 'watch this space' over the next couple of weeks (generally, not Teesside specific) whilst Uncle Ben being vocal about doing everything he can to secure more. Anyone have any insight if anything is imminent for MME?

More from Ryanair/Tui?
Wizz?
Emerald/EI to Dublin?
The Return of Eastern?
Something Else?

[N707ZS]

My thoughts, a Malaga would come in handy and a Ryanair to Dublin so that access can be gained to the European routes.

[SKOJB]

My thoughts, a Malaga would come in handy and a Ryanair to Dublin so that access can be gained to the European routes.

Are you seriously saying connecting at Dublin for med routes etc when you can fly from just up the road direct to almost any European destination? bonkers

[N707ZS]

No, Dublin for other destinations that Ryanair provide.

[Asturias56]

No, Dublin for other destinations that Ryanair provide.

Most people look to go forward when they're going to the bother of connecting - not adding even more time to the trip. TBH the reason there are so many sun 'n surf trips from tiny UK airports is that passengers on holiday very rarely want to change planes - they 'd rather change destinations. Different for Business or long-haul

[highwideandugly]

Social media frenzy today complimenting the airport in keeping open during these rather difficult conditions !
All flights apparently operating and praise from passengers according to Ben.

Well done all !

Ps..actually one flight all morning and that was nearly 2 hours late departing!

[Grumpy1]

It's a certain local political telling half the story to his increasingly gullible FB followers. Why would he let the truth spoil a good story?

[P330]

To be fair, whilst I get the point, he is telling the truth.

On the one hand, only one flight. On the other is it more impressive that they went to all this trouble for just one flight?

[Cautious Optimist]

I'm sure the staff who probably were sick to death by the completion of the task love seeing their efforts criticised 🙄

[SWBKCB]

To be fair, whilst I get the point, he is telling the truth.

On the one hand, only one flight. On the other is it more impressive that they went to all this trouble for just one flight?

The Mayor has re-posted the original from the airport.

That has photos' captioned "This was our airfield before the team moved in to clear it in the early hours of the morning." The snow is covered in tyre tracks and it is daylight. A pax has posted a video of snow being cleared around the KLM, in the dark...
The post also says "Thanks to our amazing operations team we've kept our airport moving and had flights landing and departing this morning" - there was one flight, a single departure.


Nobody is criticising the staff, but why does the airports PR team make themselves, and by extension the mayor, look stupid by this constant nonsense?

[Grumpy1]

There is most definitely no criticism whatsoever of the staff. As has been said, it's the misrepresentation of events, perhaps to give the impression that the airport is busy, that has become embarrassing. It's the same with posts about the Freeport and Teesworks.
Perhaps a better story would have been, we went to all of this trouble for a single flight.
On his FB page sombody pointed out that the story was misleading but he/she was subjected to abuse.

[N707ZS]

At least they have the equipment and the staff are once again being payed to come in to clear the snow. Compared to the beast from the east when it was just closed and anyone working up there had to fend for themselves.

[Gunfighter52]

A snippet from TAM this morning:

Willis MRO in hangar 2 have won a contract to prepare 3 Boeing 737-800's for Jet2, they are the ex-FLYR examples currently stored at Shannon, G-JZDA (ex LN-FGA), G-JZDB (ex LN-FGC) and G-JZDC (ex LN-FGB). The aircraft will start arriving next week, and will ferry for painting during their stay with us, then return for completion.

Good to see Willis making moves👍

[P330]

Excellent news!!

[oldart]

A snippet from TAM this morning:

Willis MRO in hangar 2 have won a contract to prepare 3 Boeing 737-800's for Jet2, they are the ex-FLYR examples currently stored at Shannon, G-JZDA (ex LN-FGA), G-JZDB (ex LN-FGC) and G-JZDC (ex LN-FGB). The aircraft will start arriving next week, and will ferry for painting during their stay with us, then return for completion.

Good to see Willis making moves👍

The sooner they get the new hangers built the better. No more plane tails sticking out due their height!

[highwideandugly]

Usual back of fag packet calculations shows 173 departing passengers per day during January. That’s down from 177 per day during December.

Freight up due Nissan charters ?

[L66MBD]

First time using Teesside last week due to £200pp saving on flights on the same dates vs Newcastle.

Parked right outside the terminal at half the parking cost of NCL, straight through security without having to mess about with liquids and had a drink in minutes.

Cracking operation, what an eye opener. Would be great to have a healthy list of destinations

[SWBKCB]

Would be great to have a healthy list of destinations

This the question MME will have to answer as it scales up - at a guess your flight was the only one at that time? As it gets busier how do you retain these benefits?

You also have to wonder how much the airline is making if flights are £200 cheaper in March

[P330]

Credit to the TVM site…..an A321 is arriving for storage today with Willis. From Moldova.

Activity certainly picking up for Willis.

[N707ZS]

Parking might be interesting by Friday with 2 727s, 3 737s with Ryanair, KLM ERJ 175 and 2 Logan air 145s.

[highwideandugly]

The price of success!

[Flying Hi]

Parking might be interesting by Friday with 2 727s, 3 737s with Ryanair, KLM ERJ 175 and 2 Logan air 145s.
The right kind of problem for them to have. Long may it continue.
great for all the people at MME.
Now they just need to make some money at it and job done.

[P330]

The original ex Tui 757 that was earmarked for the program has definitely been scrapped, that is not to say that a new airframe has been allocated.

An ex-Titan 757 has just been registered to 2Excel.

To be based at MME???

[globetrotter79]

An ex-Titan 757 has just been registered to 2Excel.

To be based at MME???

The 2Excel B737s are based at Stansted - so guess the B757 (if to be operated in passenger configuration) would most likely end up there too?

[N707ZS]

VIP is Stansted, these are not, possible the new fighter test bed.

[L66MBD]

This the question MME will have to answer as it scales up - at a guess your flight was the only one at that time? As it gets busier how do you retain these benefits?

You also have to wonder how much the airline is making if flights are £200 cheaper in March

I think you’re missing my points, an all round positive experience in the here and now 🙂

[SWBKCB]

I think you’re missing my points, an all round positive experience in the here and now 🙂

I got your point, the problem is if your flight is the only one, not very sustainable, is it?

[SWBKCB]

An ex-Titan 757 has just been registered to 2Excel.

To be based at MME???

Presumably this is a reference to the 757 being used as the Tempest technology trails aircraft and with the two 2Excel 727's being currently based at Teesside? As likely a base as any.

[highwideandugly]

Because of the size and structure of the airfield(apron,taxyways etc)…can the new Teesside deal with ….both maintenance and what it entails..plus the daily revenue input of schedules that Teesside folk are crying out for?
The Majority I would guess couldn’t care less about a stored aircraft,a repainted aircraft or an aircraft in for a new engine? They really just want to go to Alicante and other sunshine destinations?

Interesting conflict..at the end of the day..what is going to get the airport back in to profit?

[P330]

Because of the size and structure of the airfield(apron,taxyways etc)…can the new Teesside deal with ….both maintenance and what it entails..plus the daily revenue input of schedules that Teesside folk are crying out for?
The Majority I would guess couldn’t care less about a stored aircraft,a repainted aircraft or an aircraft in for a new engine? They really just want to go to Alicante and other sunshine destinations?

Interesting conflict..at the end of the day..what is going to get the airport back in to profit?

I am sure the majority of the public don’t care, you’re right. You’re also likely right that most just want more bucket and spade options.

But the people who do care are:

1/People wanting the airport to diversify and survive long term.
2/People looking for increased job opportunities in the region.
3/Taxpayers who have funded the airport revival who wants their investment protected.
4/The region generally that hopes to see a snowball effect of good news where investment leads to wider prosperity.
5/Casual observers, such as folk on here who are finally seeing positivity.

etc…

[Cautious Optimist]

Realistically how long will we be short of space now the Willis development has been approved? If they don't hang around, in theory you could have the apron part complete by year end? Certainly prior to the commencement of any new route expansion that may or may not happen.

[Diff Tail Shim]

Walk before running. MME sounds like a storage facility. One hangar and 6 aeroplanes wanting maintenance? BTW most people posting on here have never been inside the airside of MME. And really do not have a clue on what they are talking about. I can . So smell 🐂.

[Buster the Bear]

Tenants pay rent, so the more you have, the more that income helps to sustain the business. A brilliant example is Bournemouth. Total diversification where passengers are just another income stream.

[SWBKCB]

Realistically how long will we be short of space now the Willis development has been approved? If they don't hang around, in theory you could have the apron part complete by year end? Certainly prior to the commencement of any new route expansion that may or may not happen.

Hopefully not the same firm doing the southside road, then? :ok:

Didn't Willis once claim space to store up to 50 a/c? How much of the old tarmac on the southside is usable?.

[N707ZS]

Hopefully not the same firm doing the southside road, then? :ok:

Didn't Willis once claim space to store up to 50 a/c? How much of the old tarmac on the southside is usable?.

They still do somewhere. Remember what happened last time they stored aircraft Southside.

[highwideandugly]

So..the great and respectful DVTM movements site listed one KLM arrival and 2 departing KLM flights today.

Plus 2 Cherokee movements today.

Im certainly not an economics expert…but when you compare Doncaster flights and movements on closure..to this….can someone please explain how the airport is financially viable and Doncaster isn’t?

[pug]

So..the great and respectful DVTM movements site listed one KLM arrival and 2 departing KLM flights today.

Plus 2 Cherokee movements today.

Im certainly not an economics expert…but when you compare Doncaster flights and movements on closure..to this….can someone please explain how the airport is financially viable and Doncaster isn’t?

Economies of scale. For a start KLM do not need the fire cover that a 737 or A320 requires. It probably has much lower overheads due to not being a large facility with H24 operations handling 737 sized aircraft multiple times per day, it also has a smaller footprint with more ancillary business on site that helps to pay the bills. Humberside currently operates to reduced operating hours and has the necessary fire and ATC cover out of hours when required for KLM or biz jet traffic. It’s being run on a shoe string with minimal staffing levels. Presumably Teesside is employing the same?

That said, it’s still losing the same amount as DSA was, just that the Regional Mayor has purchased it on a mandate to turn it around, jury still out whether this has happened or not.

Id be interested to know just how much the cost of handling 737 sized passenger aircraft has increased in the last 20 years since the days of IT Charter flights. Teesside and Humberside both did well in this regard back then, obviously volume is the name of the game now, and leisure airlines favour larger bases at fewer airports, however have the costs of handling these types of flights increased so much as to price out the smaller airports completely?

[Cautious Optimist]

I thought DSA lost significantly more than we do? Either way we've had a good week so Highwide or Beafer or some such keyboard warrior was always going to look for a downer to counter it

[P330]

I thought DSA lost significantly more than we do? Either way we've had a good week so Highwide or Beafer or some such keyboard warrior was always going to look for a downer to counter it

Agree completely. I was waiting for the naysayers to arrive with an old question to raise.

[highwideandugly]

Cautious Optimist….for a reason…

The airport is doing fantastically well..on a limited basis…no doubt there..I just can’t get my head around the economics of it all?

Just suspicious ..and doubtful that’s all?

A couple of stored/maintenance aircraft do not repay £20 million and more plus , back to the taxpayers and repayment of government loans?

An airport is an expensive thing to operate as we all know.

The forecast in profit by the incumbents by 2024/25..do not add up ..or do they?

[Harold77]

There will be more stuff flying than what is shown on the website. Hence this message on the website.
"All resident aircraft movements are logged, apart from single engine light aircraft with the exception of those that land away"

So even though doesn't look like anything there is still something happening.

[SWBKCB]

There will be more stuff flying than what is shown on the website. Hence this message on the website.
"All resident aircraft movements are logged, apart from single engine light aircraft with the exception of those that land away"

So even though doesn't look like anything there is still something happening.

Yes, there maybe resident training a/c flying, but they won't be adding much by way of economic activity.

The terminal is very quiet. It will be a while before that changes, this summer is pretty much steady as she goes and there is nothing as yet to say next winter will be any different.

Draken have increased and the new Willis facility looks like a fantastic addition - both should benefit the region by attracting skilled jobs, using the local supply chain etc.

And then we wait and see what happens on the southside.

[highwideandugly]

Loganair allocated 30 slot pairs from Heathrow..commencing May….flights back again??

Surely the mayor is on this!

[Beafer]

On the airport company accounts, what do the outstanding charges mean?

This one is dated 2007.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/charges/6PjT1DyF-sOQGPrvCZy0QIrvI-0

This one dated 2019.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/charges/EgiPGTweWRG5GWxC8Vr9BORv_qk

[davidjohnson6]

Anyone know what's behind the A321 YR-ADI from Romanian airline Aerro Direkt that used to fly as a wet lease for Air Moldova ending up in storage at MME ? It was Aerro Direkt's only aircraft so I'm wondering what this means for the future of Aerro Direkt
Yes, I'm aware insurance premiums have likely gone up recently for Moldova, much of Air Moldova's fleet is grounded in Verona + Montpellier, and the Moldova Govt really doesn't like Air Moldova being controlled by a pro-Russia politician

[SWBKCB]

Well, Pacific Shelf 1860 become Goosepool 2019 Ltd which is the financial holding company of the airport.

[N707ZS]

Anyone know what's behind the A321 YR-ADI from Romanian airline Aerro Direkt that used to fly as a wet lease for Air Moldova ending up in storage at MME ? It was Aerro Direkt's only aircraft so I'm wondering what this means for the future of Aerro Direkt
Yes, I'm aware insurance premiums have likely gone up recently for Moldova, much of Air Moldova's fleet is grounded in Verona + Montpellier, and the Moldova Govt really doesn't like Air Moldova being controlled by a pro-Russia politician
Its owned by Willis.

[davidjohnson6]

Its owned by Willis.
Why did Willis ask for it back, or why did Aerro Direkt give it back ?

[onion]

On the airport company accounts, what do the outstanding charges mean?

This one is dated 2007.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/charges/6PjT1DyF-sOQGPrvCZy0QIrvI-0

This one dated 2019.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02020423/charges/EgiPGTweWRG5GWxC8Vr9BORv_qk

I believe, and I haven't read them at length, that they are charges on the airfield/land which if the company goes under owning money as the lender the aforementioned company receives the assets.
Fixed and floating charges put them at the top of the list of creditors.
Basically put the land is still owned by the Tees Valley Mayoral office.

[P330]

Why did Willis ask for it back, or why did Aerro Direkt give it back ?

My reading of the situation (and I maybe wrong) is the aircraft was end of the lease with the operator. Willis have bought it for initial storage (probably initial because currently got a busy schedule) but will eventually scrap the aircraft. I think she is 23 years old so probably end of life…..

[Gunfighter52]

The airframe history on Planespotters.net implies that the aircraft has been owned by Willis Lease since 2019 and then leased to Aerro Direkt in 2021, who then sub-leased it to Air Moldova.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/airbus-a321-200-yr-adi-aerro-direkt/r18423

[P330]

My suggestion of scrapping maybe wrong then - apologies.

[Beafer]

Mayor and airport get a mentioned in the Gazette. He's standing for the friend of a friend party again.
The public comments say it all.

Things may change for his friends companies if he doesn't get the vote. The clock is ticking. :ouch:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/tory-mayor-police-crime-commissioner-26588369#comments-wrapper

[N707ZS]

The problem is a very small amount of people vote in the mayoral election so he's probably going to get back in again.

[SWBKCB]

The problem is a very small amount of people vote in the mayoral election so he's probably going to get back in again.

People with second homes near Alicante?

[highwideandugly]

Ouch! Or maybe a canal boat in Amsterdam!

[P330]

The problem is a very small amount of people vote in the mayoral election so he's probably going to get back in again.

Careful what you wish for. I am no fan of his politics, his style or his publicity hungry demeanour, but let’s be clear, he is on the airport’s side, fighting and winning and the airport, site and overall operations are in a far better position than before.

I would go as far to say if this hadn’t been a pet project for Ben, we may well be closed. So for those wanting change, be mindful of the impact that could have on a place we (well most of us) seem to care a lot about.

[N707ZS]

Unfortunately its not a wish, I am happy with progress. Its the same with all elections at the moment people are not bothered, BREXIT was another low turn out.

[P330]

Cheeky little post from the Mayor alongside the Jet2 arrival for Willis today.

”We think you look damn good on our runway……..we’d love to see you become a regular on our tarmac. We’re ready for this.”

Whilst probably unlikely, great to see folks trying to lure the likes of Jet2.

[SWBKCB]

Cheeky little post from the Mayor alongside the Jet2 arrival for Willis today.

”We think you look damn good on our runway……..we’d love to see you become a regular on our tarmac. We’re ready for this.”

Whilst probably unlikely, great to see folks trying to lure the likes of Jet2.

Probably more to do with the start of the Mayoral campaign - there are often comments on social media about "Get Jet2, Ben"

[N707ZS]

Jet 2 said yes Start on Saturday. Wonder what he would have said if Willis got an Aeroflot.

[Harold77]

I like how you have cut out the main part of the message that was said.

This is what was posted by the Mayor and Airport.

We think you look damn good on our runway Jet2.com & Jet2holidays (https://www.facebook.com/jet2/?__cft__[0) https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tc8/1/16/1f440.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t6c/1/16/2764.png
This morning we welcomed Jet2's latest B737 to Teesside as it heads in for maintenance with Willis Aviation.
We'd love to see you become a regular on our tarmac Jet2 https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/te5/1/16/1f91e.png We're ready for this https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t1f/1/16/1f3b6.png

[P330]

I like how you have cut out the main part of the message that was said.



Yes, that was me being a little cheeky, focusing on the element of courting Jet2 in public.

Think it was a great post by both the airport and the mayor. Some cracking images of the apron this week and seeing a Jet2 aircraft there will get people talking I’m sure.

[P330]

As an aside, unlikely as it is, Jet2 still run well maintained 733s; an ideal aircraft size to test whether a new base is viable…..

We can always hope!

[Harold77]

P330, I agree it has been some good posts recently.

I think the way they have put the post today is to get lots of replies from the public saying they will use Jet2 from Teesside, then they can show Jet2 there is the demand for them at Teesside.

I think there was a Jet2Holidays charter route that was down to run in 2020, but covid hit and was dropped.

[GrahamK]

Pretty sure that was a JetsGo charter, don't believe Jet2 have ever had any plans to fly from MME.

[Wallsendmag]

Would it be new business or abstraction from established bases though?

[N707ZS]

We get Easyjet training but nothing is said about them.

[SWBKCB]

We get Easyjet training but nothing is said about them.

I see plenty of "Get easyJet in, Ben" comments, especially from the RYR haters. Personally, I think RYR are a double edged sword. Don't think MME is big enough for a competitor

[N707ZS]

Destinations would have to be none duplicate in the ideal world. The pleasures of not doing faceebook.

[Harold77]

Pretty sure that was a JetsGo charter, don't believe Jet2 have ever had any plans to fly from MME.

Thats it, knew it had Jet in the operator

[Atlantic Explorer]

As an aside, unlikely as it is, Jet2 still run well maintained 733s; an ideal aircraft size to test whether a new base is viable…..

We can always hope!

Not a chance! It will dilute NCL and LBA pax.

[highwideandugly]

Does Ben run a travel agent site on the side😀😀

[laviation]

I think once a good amount of 321neos start coming online (think 15-20) perhaps Jet2 could look at basing a 737-800 at MME (maybe summer seasonal) and launch once or twice a week routes to PMI, AYT, TFS etc. Wouldn’t hurt LBA or NCL pax that much imo, as once a week from MME to some high density destinations they already serve probably won’t make a dent.

[pug]

Not a chance! It will dilute NCL and LBA pax.

Nor is ‘testing whether a base is viable’ an actual thing.

[N707ZS]

One of the airports top guys is retiring he could fix anything.
Teesside Airport mechanic hangs up his tool belt after almost five decades of service (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/teesside-airport-mechanic-hangs-up-his-tool-belt-after-almost-five-decades-of-service/ar-AA19kehL?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=9b0ec515a99d4fafaeb8aa64eaf1e2fe&ei=9)

[Gunfighter52]

This time for 2Excel, or so the artwork would have you believe.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23432597.teesside-airport-expansion-plan-proposals-new-hangar-space/

[SWBKCB]

So between hangar 3 and the train station? Article reads like they don't have a customer for them yet.

[N707ZS]

This will explain why all of the companies have been moved out of the old cargo building, its now empty. This hangar complex was going to be built between hangar 1 and the terminal four months ago. SWBKCB that is the location but still no sign of concrete on the ground for parking.

[highwideandugly]

Positive reopening news coming out of Doncaster re Peel acting in a humane way!

Airport could reopen.would that effect 2 Excels plans ?

[Asturias56]

"Positive reopening news coming out of Doncaster re Peel acting in a humane way!"

Ypu mean they'll cut a deal if someone will take the risk?

[pug]

"Positive reopening news coming out of Doncaster re Peel acting in a humane way!"

Ypu mean they'll cut a deal if someone will take the risk?

I think people in Doncaster land are waiting for a multi million £ charitable organisation to turn up and spend their millions with little to no ROI. We await further update.

[N707ZS]

Teesside could do with some more transport for staff either a bus from the Middlesbrough/Stockton area or re connect the station into the network. During my first period of work at the airport the trains were handy on days when I couldn't borrow a car or ride my bike.

[Buster the Bear]

The contract for Oil Spill Response comes up for a renewal decision in Q3 2023. Current contract ends in 2028 allegedly, so presumably 2Excel Aviation will pitch a new aircraft type, as the 727s will be ancient and spares dwindling? I would expect RVL/West Atlantic to bid, as they have the contract currently for UK waters.

[N707ZS]

I see the gang building the Southside road have started tarmacking parts of the road. It doesn't look very wide even though they took large amounts of land and there is no sign of drainage, footpath or cycleways which you would have thought would be built to such a development.

[N707ZS]

Any sign of new routes.

[SWBKCB]

Quote from Ben on FB last night

"We'll be adding more flights and destinations soon so watch this space"

[Grumpy1]

And how many times has the mayor told us that for it to come to nothing?

[N707ZS]

Ah, council election time.

[highwideandugly]

Interesting to see the master plan financial figures update when available.

Todays movements …a couple of Cessnas,a Ryanair,an Amsterdam and an Aberdeen..usual suspects. Peak Easter time for flights…

Yes , I know ancillary work is on going..but those profits just seem so far away?

Unless The mayor knows otherwise?

[P330]

Interesting to see the master plan financial figures update when available.

Todays movements …a couple of Cessnas,a Ryanair,an Amsterdam and an Aberdeen..usual suspects. Peak Easter time for flights…

Yes , I know ancillary work is on going..but those profits just seem so far away?

Unless The mayor knows otherwise?

Haven’t you asked this question, in different forms, multiple times?

I don’t think the answer will change materially from one month to the next so why keep asking?

Things are improving.,,,another record year on the cards…,,

[GrahamK]

The future of MME isnt in pax ops, but in more specialist ops such as Willis etc. I wouldnt expect much more, hell,TUI ae dropping AYT for DLM after 1 year.

[highwideandugly]

Usual back of fag packet workings....departing passengers up to 194 per day from 173 in January.

Freight boosted by Nissan also increased inbound..nothing noted outbound this month.

Movements boosted by mainly Falcons and Aero L159 movements also increased.

[Doctor Cruces]

What a sad pass MME has come to. When I worked for BMA back in the day there we had 4 LHR rotations a day, DAn Air Ams, BOH via MAN, CWL and BRS, the Air Anglia NWI to ABZ and many IT charters especially at week ends. I guess the big airport up the road became more attractive.

[pug]

What a sad pass MME has come to. When I worked for BMA back in the day there we had 4 LHR rotations a day, DAn Air Ams, BOH via MAN, CWL and BRS, the Air Anglia NWI to ABZ and many IT charters especially at week ends. I guess the big airport up the road became more attractive.

Not as many airlines around these days either, which is a big problem for the smaller airports.

[Harold77]

What a sad pass MME has come to. When I worked for BMA back in the day there we had 4 LHR rotations a day, DAn Air Ams, BOH via MAN, CWL and BRS, the Air Anglia NWI to ABZ and many IT charters especially at week ends. I guess the big airport up the road became more attractive.

When you consider that when the Airport was purchased in Feb 2019 there was only Aberdeen and Amsterdam routes with Jersey in the Summer. If covid hadn't hit then the airport would have been more established with the new Eastern routes bedded in.

We now have Aberdeen, Amsterdam & Alicante all year round. With summer season scheduled to Jersey, Corfu, Antalya, Palma, Faro, Bourgas, plus other summer and winter charters. Plus a large increase in business on site. The airport is growing as this last year has shown.

[eye2eye5]

https://twitter.com/willblackwriter/status/1648981935484534784?s=61&t=ES_RvxtGQNz19rkS2zNOqw

[highwideandugly]

Airport and Freeport not withstanding.Private Eye is a fantastic read!

My only complaint is that .they bring lots to the public attention.. however nothing much seems to be sorted,concluded,solved or followed up on?

[s_insania]

Airport and Freeport not withstanding.Private Eye is a fantastic read!

My only complaint is that .they bring lots to the public attention.. however nothing much seems to be sorted,concluded,solved or followed up on?

Of course it’s a fantastic read to someone like you that thrives on negativity. What a wonderful life you must live

[Grumpy1]

So why is reporting the facts that should of great concern to supporters of the airport now reduced to thriving on negativity? It's either a dishonest report, evidence of mismanagement, or perhaps even worse. Please tell us all which part of the report is inaccurate or alternative why we should not be bothered.
The now struggling south side airport scheme was given away to the mayors sponsors in similar circumstances so anybody who cares about the airport should certainly be asking questions. The mayors reputation is now in tatters beyond his hard core supporters who choose to bury their heads in the sand and this in turn will impact on and damage the airport.

[P330]

The world of politics is murky; I hate it. Its a pony show with each side taking shots at each other backed up by angry polar opposites on social media looking for the demise of the opposition. Should we expect full transparency and better standards...of course we should...across the board.

But as I have said before....careful what you wish for. This is an aviation forum full of people who largely want our local airport to grow and thrive. If the Houchen witch-hunt ramps up and he is proven to be a bad apple or he gets sick of the noise and walks, who else will stand in and champion our cause with the financial clout to get us back in the black? I'm not saying he shouldn't be held to account, but I am also mindful that good things are happening on Teesside (airport and wider) and throwing stones may not be in the region's long term interest.

Anyway - onto more operational matters. A raft of TUI news around the regions this week on S24, Bournemouth and Newcastle for starters. If anything is happening with TUI on Teesside, you would expect an announcement soon wouldn't you?

[pug]

The world of politics is murky; I hate it. Its a pony show with each side taking shots at each other backed up by angry polar opposites on social media looking for the demise of the opposition. Should we expect full transparency and better standards...of course we should...across the board.

But as I have said before....careful what you wish for. This is an aviation forum full of people who largely want our local airport to grow and thrive. If the Houchen witch-hunt ramps up and he is proven to be a bad apple or he gets sick of the noise and walks, who else will stand in and champion our cause with the financial clout to get us back in the black? I'm not saying he shouldn't be held to account, but I am also mindful that good things are happening on Teesside (airport and wider) and throwing stones may not be in the region's long term interest.

Anyway - onto more operational matters. A raft of TUI news around the regions this week on S24, Bournemouth and Newcastle for starters. If anything is happening with TUI on Teesside, you would expect an announcement soon wouldn't you?

Isnt the whole point of the exercise to ensure the airport remains viable long after Ben Houchen goes off to Westminster or whatever his ambitions might be? So it is entirely appropriate that those who are pulling the strings are scrutinised, even on an aviation forum where some of the members might know a thing or two about what is going on that would otherwise remain under the carpet.

Regarding TUI, I too would be interested to see if anything new developed, however given you mentioned growth at NCL, is this not something to consider? Wouldn’t put it past TUI to be talking with LBA about expansion now too with the loss of their DSA base. Teesside have recently offered to pay Wizzair to start flying from there but they went to LBA instead.

[P330]

Isnt the whole point of the exercise to ensure the airport remains viable long after Ben Houchen goes off to Westminster or whatever his ambitions might be? So it is entirely appropriate that those who are pulling the strings are scrutinised, even on an aviation forum where some of the members might know a thing or two about what is going on that would otherwise remain under the carpet.

Regarding TUI, I too would be interested to see if anything new developed, however given you mentioned growth at NCL, is this not something to consider? Wouldn’t put it past TUI to be talking with LBA about expansion now too with the loss of their DSA base. Teesside have recently offered to pay Wizzair to start flying from there but they went to LBA instead.

Agree completely. It is entirely right people are scrutinised and I fully want people to be transparent and held to account. I'm just pragmatic enough to know what success could look like if Houchen is ousted and frankly I'm tired of reading (and yes, I should simply stop reading them), the monotonous anti-this, anti-that which just fills every comment space and political narrative. There is no wonder if takes forever to achieve anything in this country as we are incapable of agreeing on anything and the words "compromise", "debate" and "respect" seems to be consigned to history (for now).

[GrahamK]

I think Tui have announced all their UK expansion fit S24 today, with 11 extra aircraft around the network.

It appears MME will see PMI 2 x weekly and DLM 1 x weekly (replacing AYT)

[onion]

I am all for holding those accountable, but I often question motive on here!
It's not even 20 years ago that labour councils gave the airport away with clauses in there that handed the site on a plate.
At the time I saw very little on holding the labour councils accountable! Are those pursuing this doing so out of a personal hatred of the Tories and Ben or are genuinely wanting accountability? If so should questions be asked of Labour too?
We wouldnt necessarily be here if Labour hadn't given the place away!
That's the problem when the opposition in the council/government/any forum are not strong and can't hold the other accountable....

[SWBKCB]

It's not even 20 years ago that labour councils gave the airport away with clauses in there that handed the site on a plate.

The rationale at the time was that the airport needed to be expanded and that the local authorities had neither the money or the expertise to do so. I don't think it was considered at the time that it was being given away, but lets be fair there was plenty of criticism of how the airport was being run on these pages before Ben took over.

[pug]

The rationale at the time was that the airport needed to be expanded and that the local authorities had neither the money or the expertise to do so. I don't think it was considered at the time that it was being given away, but lets be fair there was plenty of criticism of how the airport was being run on these pages before Ben took over.

Indeed taken on by a company who had facilitated the development of Liverpool from a tiny backwater airport to one of the busiest regional airports in the U.K. by employing a stack em high sell em cheap approach to getting airlines in. Unfortunately Teesside and Doncaster didn’t have the catchment areas large enough to generate the critical mass to be a success.

I’ve no doubt there is latent demand at Teesside, but not enough to be handling millions of passengers a year. There aren’t as many airlines around now as there were 20+ years ago, so less opportunity for growth in that sector.

Hopefully the ancillary stuff they are getting involved in at Teesside will future proof the site and allow it to continue after Ben Houchen goes elsewhere and takes his money tree with him.

[Beafer]

A lot more is coming out in the press today about the Tees Valley Mayor, and politician are calling for an investigation.

Will the mayor try to bluff it out, or resign like Raab?

Maybe his friends are all in the same lodge?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/keir-starmer-calls-government-answer-26749752

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2023-04-20a.383.5

https://www.spottednews.uk/news/remember-brexit-freeports-theres-already-a-scandal/

[N707ZS]

The answer,
However, the Conservatives (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/all-about/conservative-party) in the region have hit back at Mr McDonald’s comments. Mr Houchen said: “Andy McDonald (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/all-about/andy-mcdonald-mp) is a coward. I dare him to repeat these claims outside of the Parliament. He won't though because he knows he’d be sued for defamation immediately for these untrue claims.

[Beafer]

The answer,

But the Mayor hasn't sued Private Eye. :rolleyes:

I don't think he will be elected by the public again, but may get a seat in the Lords. It is nod and a wink in the current government!

[N707ZS]

Try sticking to airport activity such as lack of passenger and cargo flights.

[Grumpy1]

A legitimate but uncomfortable question to ask, is the the mayor's now questionable reputation one of the reasons for the lack of growth of passenger services and the complete absence of any proper freight flights? Similar to the apparent vertual lack of tenants (so far) for Teesworks that he also refuses to address.

[highwideandugly]

Careful Grumpy..you will have s_insania coming after you too!

[Jamesair1]

This thread seems to straying, as all to often, into the political arena again.

[SWBKCB]

This thread seems to straying, as all to often, into the political arena again.

Being a public owned, taxpayer funded airport which is regularly used as a promotional tool, hardly surprising.

[Beafer]

Being a public owned, taxpayer funded airport which is regularly used as a promotional tool, hardly surprising.

Public owned..... that is until the Mayor gives away the rest of it to a couple of people after seeing what's happening at the old steel works site :=

[N707ZS]

He's already given them the Southside.

[Grumpy1]

Gave the South Side to his mates but omitted to mention it at the time. Surprised the MP and Private Eye not asking more questions about this.

[AirportPlanner1]

This thread seems to straying, as all to often, into the political arena again.

If this thread was about a privately owned airport like London City, people wading in about whether Khan is any good or whether they do or don’t want the ULEZ should rightly be moved elsewhere. But as this thread is about an airport owned by the TVCA and who’s lead is an elected representative, and that elected person has been carrying out questionably activities which appear to be to some extent replicated at the airport, it’s entirely right it should be discussed.

[Jamesair1]

Fine if Airport politics is what floats your boat but some of us outsiders are just interested in the development of services and routes at the airport.

[highwideandugly]

Holding delays at Newcastle…yet again at…big delays I would guess ..maybe time to give Teesside a chance?

[AirportPlanner1]

Fine if Airport politics is what floats your boat but some of us outsiders are just interested in the development of services and routes at the airport.

Which is completely tied in with the local politics…

[Cautious Optimist]

Political discussion on here is relevant to a point but it definitely goes too far. What the Mayor does with other sites such as TeesWorks is no concern of this thread

[onion]

As I said, very little was said when Labour councils gifted the airport away.... I'm all for holding politicians accountable but there are some on here were that verges on a vendetta!

[SWBKCB]

Sorry, but you are re-writing history. Peel and the councils have taken plenty of stick.

[onion]

Sorry, but you are re-writing history. Peel and the councils have taken plenty of stick.

Definitely aren't, Peel may have, the councils didn't.
Plus I was comparing the attention they got with the current situation, a political situation.
I'm not the one now trying to re-write history as you say.

[Beafer]

Definitely aren't, Peel may have, the councils didn't.
Plus I was comparing the attention they got with the current situation, a political situation.
I'm not the one now trying to re-write history as you say.

What the public need to see in the press is the airport facts. How much airport land has been given to friends companies, and what was the land actually worth at the time?

From what I can see there were NO tenders produced by the Mayors government body to invite quotes for the same land? Why NOT?

Doesn'tt the government have auditors to oversee the land give aways up to now?

This is starting to look a strange way of operating a government agency. Its more like a friend of a friend deal.

The MP's and Private Eye should be asking for an inquiry, after all the airport was supposed to be public land.

Has anyone on here got a map of what has been given to the friends companies?

[Cautious Optimist]

Are you even sure the South side has been given away?? The whole point of the project is to generate rental income which won't be possible if we don't own it