Teesside-2

[GrahamK]

I make Amsterdam 37% loads based on E175s operating, though September did see 1 x E190NG with a busload of Leeds pax

[N707ZS]

Amazed the mayor hasn't had his mug in the paper advertising new Amsterdam flights.

[SKOJB]

Not surprised looking at overall pax numbers transiting during September

[SWBKCB]

No smiling mugshot, but the news of the restoration of some of the pre-Covid flights has made it into the local media - there have long been complaints about the current later departure time on social media.

[mmeteesside]

Loganair now offering ‘direct’ travel to Esbjerg via Aberdeen from next Monday, twice weekly Mon & Wed. Teesside aircraft was already operating this anyway so I guess it makes sense to open up this to Teesside customers. Good news all the same, it’s expected to increase to 4x weekly next March.

[Cautious Optimist]

I thought our aircraft did a Newcastle run before coming back? If I'm wrong how come it gets back an hour later now? We've had new routes like this before to Stavanger, Bergen and Wick via Eastern but they all required an aircraft change in Aberdeen, glad to see this is closer to the real deal.

[Jamesair1]

Loganair no longer fly ABZ - NCL, that has been taken over by Eastern, so maybe the a/c had a longer on ground period at ABZ and the extension works well for a/c utilisation

[davidjohnson6]

30 min on ground at ABZ from MME to EBJ, but 1h40 in tge other direction to allow for immigration, customs and reclearing security. It's going to feel a lot like a change of flight when travelling from Denmark to Teesside

[BA318]

In reality how much demand is there for flights from Esbjerg to Teesside? It’s not like it’s a well connected airport with lots of options. If you want to fly there it’s probably still convenient.

[tigertanaka]

I actually flew ESB-ABZ-NCL in 2019. I was on a work trip to Denmark but there was no late afternoon flight back to Amsterdam from Billund so I took the Loganair flight from Esbjerg to Aberdeen and back to Newcastle (on one ticket). I would have used the Teesside flight if it had been in operation.

Esbjerg airport makes Teesside look like Heathrow. There was a small cafe and car rental drop off but they didn't even accept mobile boarding passes at the gate. I think I was the only non-oil rigger on the (pretty full) plane.

[SWBKCB]

Lots of industrial connections between the two areas, but we're not exactly talking big numbers here. You're only filling up the empty seats on a 145, and LM are already flying MME-ABZ and ABZ-EBJ. Why not tweak the schedule and fill a couple more seats?


Kay Ryan, Loganair’s Chief Commercial Officer, said: “We already operate a direct service from Aberdeen to Esbjerg on a Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays so it made sense to alter timings where we could allow this easy connection for passengers south of the border.

[ajamieson]

Offshore industry customer has probably indicated a need and the rest is positioning/infill. Anyone else booking a ticket is bascially topping up numbers. Would have thought HUY or NWI more useful than MME but who knows.

[Cautious Optimist]

They've probably been inspired by the handful of recent Esbjerg charter flights

[ted320]

Whats with all the bus jets arriving at the moment? Must have seen three fly over last night within about 30 mins.

[DC3 Dave]

COP yourself on! Have you not been watching the news!

Personally, I don’t blame you if you haven’t.

[davidjohnson6]

Could it be overflow parking for COP-26 in Glasgow ?

[SWBKCB]

More likely shooting.

[P330]

Good news!

But for me....I’m out.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/duncan-bannatyne-opening-luxury-express-22112933

[highwideandugly]

P330 you Coward! Not sure how well that will do? Current Shops are not having much footfall at moment…Think Airport needs more than 5/6 schedules per day to generate revenue?

I suppose month on month figures will tell the story..

[stewyb]

Airport first needs to walk before it can even think of running, another vanity project by the mayor that will do little to improve footfall through a very quiet terminal!

[N707ZS]

Think a few heads need steaming to try and get a clearer view of what direction they are going in. Presume the mayor will have a free pass to get his face fixed before all of his photo shoots.

[onion]

So much negativity!
This is Duncan Bannatyne, he knows how to make money! So he must see some worth in opening at the airport.

I wonder how many who comment/complain on here are millionaires? It certainly isn't a vanity project from the mayor!

If it doesn't work well it doesn't work, but it may bring some cash into the airports coffers!

[Cautious Optimist]

Whilst I fully agree with Onion, at the same time how many leisure passengers will realistically wait until they're at the airport to get all of that stuff done?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Especially if given a big financial incentive to open it by the airport. He will walk away when it starts costing him money.

The term ‘lipstick on a pig’ springs to mind on this one.

[SWBKCB]

I used to work with a woman who said "The holiday hasn't started till I've bought a handbag..." and only be half joking, so if it gets well known I can see this becoming part of the holiday experience. I agree that Bannatyne is no mug and the airport is to be applauded for being innovative and supporting local businesses but like others I'd worry about the number of customers - not seen it mentioned, but wonder if they are offering free-parking to customers like some of the other outlets. That might attract non-travellers into the airport (we've all heard of "the airport as shopping mall" idea! :ok:)

[Jamesair1]

Best wait and see......I''m with SWBKCB on this.

[Cautious Optimist]

Its located airside so free parking would really please the customers, especially if they're going to Spain for a fortnight!

[SWBKCB]

Ooops, didn't realise it was airside. Somebody is playing a long game, then.

[Jamesair1]

Useful time filler if your flight has a long delay. eg a 737 delay gives you up to 180 pax with time on their hands.

[SWBKCB]

Ryanair on sale - looks the same as this year, so far. Weren't all of these on sale already, except maybe Corfu?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/ryanairs-summer-2022-schedule-teesside-22135213

[highwideandugly]

According to the airport web site the Heathrow service is down to one flight only on a lot of days next week.

Is there a specific reason or is it because slot problems are starting to bite as Heathrow becomes busier with aircraft?

[SWBKCB]

No idea where the slots are from, but you'd have thought they would be allocated for the whole of the winter season. It would be surprising if slot demand is that biting in one of the lowest parts of the season.

Can only assume that Loganair are short of aircraft, crew or passengers!

[jorvik]

Only one departure on a Saturday? Is this the normal schedule for a Saturday? I know it’s the winter season and November is a very thin month, but that seems a drastically thin, even with the circumstances.

[N707ZS]

Looks like it, bean counters will be looking at it and eyeing up the staff.

[highwideandugly]

Can’t see all the new concessions doing a roaring trade?

[GrahamK]

Better of running 1 2/3rds full E-Jet than 2 x 1/3 full aircraft I guess?

[highwideandugly]

Now that’s a good A level maths question😀

[oldart]

All quiet on the freight operator starting up. From memory didn't KLM want to use MME as an over spill hub some years ago. The South side development wants to get a move on so the airport can attract freight and other business's, eg:- Amazon.

[tigertanaka]

I suspect if you are a publicly owned airport, it would be a bit of a schoolboy error to announce a new cargo operation in the middle of the COP26 conference.

Plenty of building work happening outside hanger 3 so it can't be long before something happens.

[SWBKCB]

From memory didn't KLM want to use MME as an over spill hub some years ago.

Was there every any truth in this rumour or can we safely file it as an urban myth?

[highwideandugly]

KLM freight ops? ….One of the many MME urban myths!

I would suspect if freight operations are to operate from the north side..a rather lot of expensive work will be required on strengthening and widening taxiways first?

South side a different matter.

[N707ZS]

It was true, or the plans were there to bring in cargo bound for Amsterdam and ship it through tees port. Also a four lane 747 hangar was planned, think developer was Moorfield Semely or something.
The local councillor the infamous Doris Jones kicked up a stink and produced figures of more 747 freighters visiting than existed but somehow she pushed for a judicial review and got it. The developer didn't last the two to three years so eventually it failed. Doris being a Conservative councillor now doesn't bat an eyelid at the airport and its developments.

Rumour has it stand one is to be used so no need to strengthen the taxiways, they were fit for a full 146 though and work has been done on the alpha taxiway and stand 13. With them just tarting up hangar 3 and dropping in container offices after they evicted the GA it must be a cheap budget.

[SWBKCB]

I can believe somebody has come up with a plan for big sheds and Jumbo;s, but not that KLM were involved. AMS has only been slot constrained comparitively recently and unloading air freight at Teesside to put on a boat across the North Sea doesn't seem like the greatest idea.

[mmeman]

Anyone know what is happening with Jersey next year - currently looks like no flights to Jersey - Teesside has disappeared from the Airways Holidays website, where it had previously said charter flights from Teesside and Humberside for 2022 would be confirmed shortly, but Teesside has disappeared but Humberside remains. :bored:

[Jamesair1]

The big problem seems to be that Loganair announced that it had cancelled most of its programmed flights to Jersey for 2022. NCL had three operators in 2021 ....Easyjet, Jet2 and Loganair...next year looks like only Jet2 so far......also in the pre-pandemic years a lot of Jerseys hotel stock changed use to nursing homes etc
leaving a bit of a shortage of accommodation. Maybe Airway Holidays will still organise a weekly charter....it's early days.

[tigertanaka]

October CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 11,810 (compared to 10,610 last month, 2,007 passengers in October 2020 and 12,967 in October 2019)

Aberdeen: 1,547 (up 83% v Oct last year & down 1% v Oct 2019)
Belfast City: 685 (up 210% v last yr)
Bristol: 342
Heathrow: 1,448 (up 501% v last year & best month yet)
Newquay: 230 (up 46% v last year)
Alicante: 2,456 (1,668 in September)
Amsterdam: 715 (down 30% v last year & down 95% v 2019)
Corfu: 676 (797 in September)
Faro: 1,760 (991 in September)
Palma: 1,888 (995 in September)


Plus 63 on (football?) charters to/from Cardiff

There were also 400 transfer passengers not included in the above figures, presumably mainly Loganair passengers transiting between Bristol and Aberdeen.

Aberdeen is still growing year on year but is continuing to drop compared to recent months (following Eastern's withdrawal and the subsequent price increases) which shows the price sensitivity on this business heavy route but October's figure is still comparable to pre-pandemic levels. Belfast and Newquay follow the trend of up on last year but down on summer 2021, illustrating the more seasonal bias of these routes. Heathrow loads are creeping up (12.5 in October compared to 11/5 in September and 9.9 in August) but there is clearly much more room for improvement.

Half term gave some of the holiday routes a big boost with Alicante, Palma and Faro all having their best month since Ryanair returned to the airport. Corfu was down on September (but up on August) possibly due to it not being such an in-demand location in October. KLM ran only 20 flights to Amsterdam with an average of 35.8 passengers compared to 168 flights and 66.6 passengers in October 2019.

My take is that holiday & leisure traffic is pretty strong with drops at Newquay and Belfast more down to seasonality. However business demand is clearly weak right now and this is impacting Amsterdam, Heathrow and (to a lesser extent) Aberdeen.

[tigertanaka]

Just seen an ad for Jersey travel, advertising flights with Eastern from Teesside weekly on Saturdays from 21st May to 17th September. Teesside is back on the travel agent’s website so whatever happened, appears to have been resolved.

[mmeman]

yes able to book now, looks like the aircraft is Humberside based next year, and arrives at Teesside lunchtime from Jersey.. going to be busy on a Saturday around lunchtime, potentially 2 Ryanair aircraft, Loganair, this Eastern and potentially KLM if they keep the lunchtime timings!

[highwideandugly]

Looking at the fantastic DTV movement sight makes sorry reading today..only 3 flights?

Massive investment not really being rewarded ?

I know it’s low season and monthly figures are generally better , but should the Teesside public expect a little more choice than Aberdeen?

It’s still a very difficult time for the aviation industry and airports..goodness knows what 2022 will bring🤔

[P330]

Of course it’s no great.

But look at the world around us? Where would I be comfortable going to right now? Where am I allowed to jet off to right now? Business travel isn’t what it was and may be different for ever.

Domestic flights will be increasingly frowned upon too.

It’s all about next summer now. A handful of sustainable domestic routes and some sun routes.

Times have changed but we’re in there fighting and in the best shape we’ve ever been.

[N707ZS]

With hangar 3 becoming a cargo centre there must be going to be an announcement soon.

[SWBKCB]

THE online retailer, Amazon could open a logistics site at Teesside Airport as talks between the retailer and bosses have been taking place, The Northern Echo understands.The huge retailer, which has three Fulfilment Centres (https://amazon.force.com/BBJobDetails?Agency=1&isApply=1&reqid=a0R4U00000CVkTC&cmpid=SPRUEU2255H8&gclid=Cj0KCQiA15yNBhDTARIsAGnwe0XRaQrz40uylVCv0lzvIK30KW0vKO exAWW8Zibfbs7IJVuapjppXbQaAgTXEALw_wcB) in the region, could open a distribution centre to help receive and send parcels from other countries, creating hundreds of jobs. Sources close to both Amazon and the airport said talks between the two parties had begun last month with a potential site to be built on the new southside development (https://www.teessideinternational.com/).

Quote from the Mayor

He said: “I’ve made no secret of the fact that I want Teesside Airport to be the number one centre for cargo and freight in the north of England, this will not happen overnight, but we have the vision and drive to make it a reality. As part of this plan we will soon be launching our new freight handling facility. As you would expect, we’re pulling out all the stops to bring investment and jobs to the airport site and I can confirm we are in discussions with a global household name who is looking to make a significant investment on the airport site to expand their freight operations in the region, something that will create thousands of good-quality well-paid jobs for local workers across Teesside, Darlington and Hartlepool.”

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19755543.amazon-in-talks-new-logistics-site-teesside-airport/

[N707ZS]

Should have bought a lottery ticket last night. Total guess from me.

[Beatts]

DTV the next EMA 😆

[Cautious Optimist]

Beatts

This mystery DTV place may well be, but don't think Teesside will ever reach such levels...

[N707ZS]

I see fog has shown how Teesside was left behind in the 80s and 90s with only having CAT 1. The neighbouring airfield now have CAT 3 and not much problem.

[Mooncrest]

I see fog has shown how Teesside was left behind in the 80s and 90s with only having CAT 1. The neighbouring airfield now have CAT 3 and not much problem.
Not quite. Leeds Bradford has been CAT 3 for years and an awful lot hasn't landed today. RVR below 200m hasn't helped.

[N707ZS]

The local rag is talking about the end of the viewing area at Teesside so that the mayor and his chums can have a new office.

Teesside Airport’s outdoor viewing area will close for good next week | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19793606.teesside-airports-outdoor-viewing-platform-drop-off-closes-next-week/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor)

[onion]

The local rag is talking about the end of the viewing area at Teesside so that the mayor and his chums can have a new office.

Teesside Airport’s outdoor viewing area will close for good next week | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19793606.teesside-airports-outdoor-viewing-platform-drop-off-closes-next-week/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor)

It mentions it but actually leads with the fact the old one has to go to build the new viewing area, sky bar and office space.

Then as you put it the mayor and his chums can lease/rent a public owned office rather than a private owned office until they finally move to Darlington, which I believe will be when the Government campus is done, unfortunately that will be back to being a privately owned office.
The mayor moving to the airport is a good thing as it saves taxpayers money!

[N707ZS]

They have the whole airport to build on, could even have offices in the old empty George Hotel. Not as quick building new hangars for the residents that they have turfed out of hangar 3.

[onion]

N707ZS, you just like a moan don't you 🤣
If it's not CAT numbers, which MME doesn't really need anything more currently, and if you mentioning the 80s and 90s, what has made things worse is the Tees barrage. Prior to then MME had one of the best if not the best weather record. Even since then it's not really needed anything better than CAT 1. Yes it would be nice but is it really that needed? All airports suffer from fog from time to time.

And now it viewing galleries, supposed folly offices or lack of hangers.
The place can't win..... maybe you should be running it from your armchair :ugh::ok:

[N707ZS]

Onion we bare to differ, too many people just say yes Ben. I guess you know me and then should know I have seen what's gone on for more than forty years.

[tigertanaka]

The George Hotel needs demolishing. It is far too big for the office requirements of the TVA and would need a fortune spending on it to bring it up to standard. At that point there would be a huge rates bill to pay too so presumably building the new office onto the end of the terminal and wrapping the work into the Skybar/viewing area development delivers cost synergies across both projects?

If the airport can get back to 300-400k pax a year, then maybe the hotel site would be interesting for redevelopment but at that point a Premier Inn type chain would just flatten it and built a new hotel in line with their requirements.

[SWBKCB]

presumably building the new office onto the end of the terminal and wrapping the work into the Skybar/viewing area development delivers cost synergies across both projects?

Not that we will ever know! :ok:

[Cautious Optimist]

I concede the hotel will in all likelihood get demolished, but given the history of the building and money they're happily spending elsewhere on lesser projects, they are not trying hard enough to save it. At the point it closed it needed £2m to bring it up to regulatory standards, and probably the same again in refurbishment - a drop in the ocean compared to some of the expenditure!

N707ZS is right about GA, they are not being treated well at the moment.

[N707ZS]

The hotel would be ideal as individual office suits for starter companies or someone wanting a regional office as each of the old rooms are quite large with a bathroom. Other areas such as the old bar, dining areas and hall could be turned into larger open offices.

[tigertanaka]

If CO is correct and the hotel building requires £2m spending on it (plus £2m refurb), it might be more attractive to sell the site to Premier Inn who could flatten it and build a new one for £5m which would have lower operational costs.

It would be hard for the TVA to justify spending (say) £1.5m+ on basic regulatory compliance for and conversion to 2nd tier offices for rent. Of course, you might question the value for money when it comes to TVA's investment decisions but there is no payback or strategic rationale here.

[N707ZS]

Shutter media is already working from there.
Shutter Media | Home (https://www.shuttermedia.co.uk/)

[GrahamK]

Any idea who is operating the flights for Tui next summer now?

[P330]

Looks like full schedule now pushed back to January. So, one flight a day at most until then.

KLM changes pushed back to the Summer season at end of March. Once a day, if you’re lucky, until then.

[highwideandugly]

Ryanair also cancelling Alicante for January into February..According to Facebook.

Fares at £4.99 would indicate why!
Mayor is going to need an extension to his deep pockets possibly😀😀

[SWBKCB]

Has the new Duty Free opened?

[Albert Hall]

When Ryanair is announcing a 1/3rd network cut in its January schedules and traffic well down, it's difficult to see why anyone should think this is unique to Teesside or that it should somehow defy gravity when nowhere else can?

[oldart]

Any idea who is operating the flights for Tui next summer now?
Correndon Airways might be a good bet, believe the owner is a Turk.

[SWBKCB]

When Ryanair is announcing a 1/3rd network cut in its January schedules and traffic well down, it's difficult to see why anyone should think this is unique to Teesside or that it should somehow defy gravity when nowhere else can?

Maybe because nobody is investing like MME - including a duty free shop and a spa that had been previously announced were due to open before the end of 2021, when realistically their main hope of customers before the summer kicks in was the bi-weekly Alicante.

[N707ZS]

Duty free opened by..., Ben of course, another photo shoot.

World Duty Free opens at Teesside Airport - and here's a first look | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19805203.world-duty-free-opens-teesside-airport---first-look/)

[SWBKCB]

From the press release on the airport website

Teesside International Airport’s first duty-free shop in eight years has today (21 December) welcomed its first customers.

And then there is this bit

The store, part of the airport terminal’s multimillion-pound redevelopment, threw open its doors ahead this afternoon’s flights to London Heathrow and Aberdeen, with passengers flocking in to check out its great value products.

[highwideandugly]

Great timing..a. Distinct lack of international flights me thinks? With KLM and Ryanair retreating…business could be somewhat slow?

[onion]

Great timing..a. Distinct lack of international flights me thinks? With KLM and Ryanair retreating…business could be somewhat slow?

Just because it's a duty free shop doesn't mean they only sell to international passengers!
Really it's a shop that takes the duty off for those travelling out of the UK!

[SWBKCB]

Yes, the occupants of two Loganair Embraers flocked in yesterday. From tiny acorns, I suppose...

[Harold77]

KLM changes pushed back to the Summer season at end of March. Once a day, if you’re lucky, until then.

This is not much to do with UK restrictions, but more because of the Dutch restrictions. I think their restrictions runs til end of January at earliest. But is a fluid situation.

So if the Dutch open their border restrictions and UK doesn't have any hard restrictions in place it could allow operations and movements to be made sooner.

[Harold77]

With hangar 3 becoming a cargo centre there must be going to be an announcement soon.

There has been some freight flights already this month. Most notibly one of them involving a Brazilian Air Force KC-390 Millenium transport aircraft.

I'm suprised that there has been no announcements about cargo flights having already started. Don't have to say what or where, but could have just said the first cargo flight has departed for an international customer. Unless they are waiting with announcements for a regular cargo run to start operating.

[stewyb]

Passengers will be flocking to duty free today with 5 flights departing!

[SWBKCB]

There has been some freight flights already this month. Most notibly one of them involving a Brazilian Air Force KC-390 Millenium transport aircraft.

I'm suprised that there has been no announcements about cargo flights having already started. Don't have to say what or where, but could have just said the first cargo flight has departed for an international customer. Unless they are waiting with announcements for a regular cargo run to start operating.

What other freight flights have there been apart from the Brazilian?

[N707ZS]

None and the Brazilian didn't actually use the hangar building.

[Harold77]

None and the Brazilian didn't actually use the hangar building.

It all still counts on the CAA cargo tonnage figures for the airport.

[N707ZS]

Will be interesting to see if the cargo is recorded on the CAA cargo figures for the airport as some past military freight wasn't disclosed.

[SWBKCB]

I've got a feeling that non-commercial flights aren't included as well.

While on the subject of H3, the switch between hangars 1 and 2 needed 'change of use' planning permission, but nothing for H3?

[Harold77]

CAA January - October figures 2021 for Teesside.

Terminal Passengers 59,394
Transit Passengers 6,369

Rolling Passenger Numbers for the year: 61,338

So going off the monthly figures they are collected by public services and charter flights. So that leaves 1,944 other passengers, I would presume that this figure includes business jets etc. This figure would include the Prime Minister Boris Johnson's multiple appearences this year at the airport and royalty.

[N707ZS]

Have you checked both councils, Darlington and Stockton. They didn't apply for functions in hangar 1 either.

[SWBKCB]

Nothing on either website. On the Darlington website, there is an application to demolish a maintenance building next to Hangar 3 which would suggest H3 would also fall to them. In general terms Northside seems to be Darlington and Southside Stockton? Not sure the Stockton website is showing all planning applications though. With regard to functions, I think change of use permission is required if for more than 28 days a year (unless that is just agricultural land)

[SWBKCB]

CAA January - October figures 2021 for Teesside.

Terminal Passengers 59,394
Transit Passengers 6,369

Rolling Passenger Numbers for the year: 61,338

So going off the monthly figures they are collected by public services and charter flights. So that leaves 1,944 other passengers, I would presume that this figure includes business jets etc. This figure would include the Prime Minister Boris Johnson's multiple appearences this year at the airport and royalty.

So wouldn't the 'Passengers Rolling year' figure include November and December 2020, whereas the January - October figures 2021 are just the first ten months of 2021?

[Harold77]

So wouldn't the 'Passengers Rolling year' figure include November and December 2020, whereas the January - October figures 2021 are just the first ten months of 2021?

Oh yeah, must remember to double check counting when half awake.

[tigertanaka]

The difference in the YTD v rolling 12 month passenger numbers is November (1,008 pax) and December (936 pax) last year.

Passengers on small planes (under 15 tonnes MTWA) are not included in the CAA passenger stats (but are in the movements).

[SWBKCB]

Any news on when the 25% owning charitable trust will become a charity or when the trustee appointment process will be completed?

[SWBKCB]

Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen flew out to America to hold in-depth talks with a global aviation firm wanting to secure its next stage of investment at Teesside.

Willis Lease Finance Corporation, which already has a huge base at the airport, is believed to be planning up to four more hangers in a multi-million pound investment that would create hundreds of highly-skilled roles.

The Mayor spent three days negotiating with the group, including its CEO and Chairman Charles F Willis IV, ahead of a potential deal which could be confirmed in the next few weeks.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19814410.us-aviation-firm-set-bring-jobs-boost-teesside-airport/

[jorvik]

Is that article code for “the passenger side really isn’t working, we are throwing good money after bad paying airlines”

[SKOJB]

Is that article code for “the passenger side really isn’t working, we are throwing good money after bad paying airlines”

If 12k pax per month is anything to go by, then yes you could be right!

[Robert-Ryan]

The article is somewhat misleading, claiming the housing land "could now be kept for its intended purposes" is ridiculous, given this new hangar complex will at best incorporate 25% of said land, with the bulk still unsuitable for aviation use, which is why housing was planned for there in the first instance.

The main evidence that the Mayor is misleading people however comes from this line:
It welcomed its first aircraft, a Boeing 737, in August last year and since then we’ve seen more and more pass into our hangars.
Two additional aircraft is not "more and more".

[onion]

Is that article code for “the passenger side really isn’t working, we are throwing good money after bad paying airlines”

:zzz:😴🙄

Is that what you get from the article? They have always been looking to diversify.
What's you take on opening a duty free shop then with your above attitude?
So when they announce more routes or the pax operations are still going this time next year I expect you to be eating your words?

[SWBKCB]

Two additional aircraft is not "more and more".

Especially given what been happening at Lasham, Kemble, St. Athan in the same period

The whole piece is full of it's, but's and maybe's with nothing new from Willis themselves - the quote being re-cycled from last year. I understand that Willis have already received considerable support.

The article also seems to be implying that the land to be used is that in the last Peel proposal, which I thought was the land to the west of St George way (the terminal approach road) and the terminal car park, but that can't be right!

Is that what you get from the article? They have always been looking to diversify

Absolutely agree and this type of operation is exactly the sort of thing they should be aiming for, but as I've said above, this does lack susbstance.

[N707ZS]

The article is a big cringe but it is what is being fed to the whole of Teesside, a percentage believe it a small percentage disagree but the majority couldn't care less.

It will be interesting to see where the extra hangar or hangars are built. Hopefully quicker then the new GA hangar. They will still need to add parking for storage.

Would a large building North side block out the new radar.

[onion]

Especially given what been happening at Lasham, Kemble, St. Athan in the same period

The whole piece is full of it's, but's and maybe's with nothing new from Willis themselves - the quote being re-cycled from last year. I understand that Willis have already received considerable support.

The article also seems to be implying that the land to be used is that in the last Peel proposal, which I thought was the land to the west of St George way (the terminal approach road) and the terminal car park, but that can't be right!



Absolutely agree and this type of operation is exactly the sort of thing they should be aiming for, but as I've said above, this does lack susbstance.

SWBKCB I agree that the article has been thrown together. I think it's a piece just to keep momentum going.
4 hangars I read as sheds personally, that may or may not be on the airfield itself.
Until Willis make a statement I take this as a deal in principle, but still good news even if only a fraction takes place.

[tramontana]

What other freight flights have there been apart from the Brazilian?

I assumed that the Brazilian Military Flight was here to pick up a cargo of Single Malt😉
Will Willis buy these Hangers/ Sheds and the land which will be needed or are they going to Lease from the British Taxpayer after receiving substantial Grants to come to Teesside, I don't want to knock the Mayor any increase in Airport Traffic is welcome but I do have concerns that these mighty investments turn into a trickle when the Company concerned announce after receiving Taxpayers Grants that it is not a feasible proposition and the size of their investment needs to be reduced.
I have worked for a Company that received a substantial Regional Development Grant based on plans to build a new plant and buy the land needed that were basically B S as they never intended to go ahead due to the economic climate concerning the product which was known about beforehand, they did build a Hanger type shed for extra storage but that was it. The Company concerned no longer exists and the land purchased for the phantom Plant was sold by the Company for housing.

[oldart]

So the end of the year has gone yet there was no announcement of a new freight business. Amazon have made the headlines with new warehouses, you would have thought they needed an air freight distribution centre in the North of England. Will Willis expand to needing a new hanger? All they seem to do at the moment is tinker with parts for aircraft, rumour has it they service Logan Air aircraft. The South side development seems to be taking ages to take shape, other airports will take advantage of any opportunity regarding freight or parting out.

[Harold77]

Is that article code for “the passenger side really isn’t working, we are throwing good money after bad paying airlines”

The passenger side is working out. Before Covid hit it was seeing good growth with an extra 10k passengers in 2019 without any extra routes, 148k for 2019. This growth would of continued into 2020 and boomed when the new routes started in 2020 so we could have been looking at around 350k for 2020 and 500k for 2021 if Covid hadn't hit.

KLM over the last month or so should start to see an increase in numbers as they moved the flight forward from an evening flight to a dinnertime flight. In 2019 KLM had 2 return flights a day to Amsterdam and had monthlty figures of 10-11k, two morning flights to Amsterdam. So it was obviously going to be lower numbers just operating a teatime flight over recent months since its return. Thus missing all the travel and business markets. When KLM return to full timetable there will be 3 return flights a day.

Aberdeen was only about 1500 passengers a month in 2019 with 2 day return flights. Numbers increased significantly during summer 2021 when it saw Logan & Eastern operate flights providing competition on the route. So as can be seen that Aberdeen route could significantly increase numbers if more flights operate or that bigger aircraft are used to help reduce cost units so more cheaper fares could be had.

Figures could still be sluggish this January due to international travel restrictions in other countries which will damper demand for travel. We just need for all Covid travel restrictions to be lifted globally and confidence return before able to make a real assesment as to how Teesside Airport is doing passenger wise.

The airport has huge amount of land available to be utilised. So this new development with Willis is in no way saying that passenger side isn't really working. It is about the airport increasing diversification of activities to increase revenue streams.

Teesside has faired better than other airports during the pandemic because of the lower starting point so there wasn't much of a fall to be had. Also different aviation activities that are based at the airport, such as Cobham/ Draken and IAS Medical flights. The more diversified aviation activities you have the better the airport can survive in hard times. Some airports closed and became parking lots, whereas Teesside because of the diversification of activities has been an active airport all year round.

[highwideandugly]

True..an active airport all year round..but at what cost?

Nobody is rushing back to any airport at the moment..2022 could be just as difficult.

KLM operating approx. 4 flights per day from Newcastle..approx.4 flights per week from Teesside..surely if the demand was there they would return to a more positive timetable?

[SWBKCB]

Interesting comments - yes H77 is right pax numbers heading in the right direction, but as HWU says at what cost? Huge amounts spent on the terminal, good reviews but you'd expect that when there are more staff than passengers and everything is shiny and new (exagerating for effect but you know what I mean...). Is there really enough custom to sustain the Duty Free shop and Ballantine's (another puff piece in the Echo today)?

The whole Eastern/Loganair saga was strange and we know Ryanair take no prisoners. Without LM/RYR. pax numbers would be much as under Peel?

Willis advertise a hangar capable of taking 3 narrowbodies with the wingspan of a 757 and parking for 50+ plus narrow/wide bodies, but have handled 3 737's in eighteen months (and yes, some other bits and pieces) while their competitors home and abroad have been bursting at the seems.

The southside development seems to have been going on for ever and finally there might be some movement - with Amazon on the doorstep you'd have thought they would be first on the mayors list, but things only just seem to be moving?

Does anybody know what Stobarts role really was, or what is happening with the charitable trust - again, still dragging on.

Interesting times - still...

[Harold77]

True..an active airport all year round..but at what cost?

Teesside Airport had to stay operational, it couldn't close. Medical flights still had to operate, Military training was also required to continue and essential worker flights were still required to operate.

A number of staff were furloughed and operational hours reduced to cater for the reduction in staff.

[highwideandugly]

I was generalising…a lot of money…a really lot of money has been spent on the infrastructure.It would have sent out the wrong messages to shareholders,stakeholders ,investors et al if it closed.

So it had to stay open when other normally busy airports scaled right back?

I think the medical flights can operate un licensed ? Hence you see them overnight when the airport is closed?
Military flights(what’s left of them) I guess could go anywhere?
Essential workers..guess you mean oil flights to Aberdeen..l suppose they could have used the train?

[onion]

The FRA (Draken) and probably calibration is what is referred to as military I guess, and no they couldn't really go else where without a cost to FRA (Draken) setting up new maintenance facilities and possibly penalties being due from the airport if they had too.

Also the improvements to the infrastructure needed to be carried out and were planned for. Why not bring them forward, lessen disruption, lessen the overall cost to the taxpayer through not having to furlough those who worked on the projects and shorten the time frames due to less passengers being in the buildings. Also probably getting better deals as companies wanted the work.
I look at it as a win win all round.

[Harold77]

I was generalising…a lot of money…a really lot of money has been spent on the infrastructure.It would have sent out the wrong messages to shareholders,stakeholders ,investors et al if it closed.

So it had to stay open when other normally busy airports scaled right back?

I think the medical flights can operate un licensed ? Hence you see them overnight when the airport is closed?
Military flights(what’s left of them) I guess could go anywhere?
Essential workers..guess you mean oil flights to Aberdeen..l suppose they could have used the train?

It is a private company based at Teesside Airport whose aircraft are contracted by the MOD to train RAF/ Navy pilots in electronic warfare/ dog fight/ escort. They are up about a dozen times a day. Hence why the airport was kept open.

The passenger terminal was closed for a period, but then reopened to allow essential travel on limited routes.

The essential workers were riggers, they couldn't all get trains as train services were reduced by some margin and at very very reduced capacity because of distancing requirements. So flights allowed more to be transported overall than reliant on just trains, Also an hour's flight is far better than 5 hours on a train.

[Harold77]

The FRA (Draken) and probably calibration is what is referred to as military I guess, and no they couldn't really go else where without a cost to FRA (Draken) setting up new maintenance facilities and possibly penalties being due from the airport if they had too.

Also the improvements to the infrastructure needed to be carried out and were planned for. Why not bring them forward, lessen disruption, lessen the overall cost to the taxpayer through not having to furlough those who worked on the projects and shorten the time frames due to less passengers being in the buildings. Also probably getting better deals as companies wanted the work.
I look at it as a win win all round.

I totally agree with you Onion. Yes I meant Draken contracts when I said military flights.

Covid has actually played into Teesside Airport's advantage. If they tried to do the refurbishment during normal operating conditions it would have took them 3 to 4 times as long to do it, as would only be able to do small sections at a time. Whereas with the terminal closed to the public they could come in rip everything out in one go and rebuild in a very short space of time. When it reopened for essential travel only it was only a handful of passengers each flight so they could work around the works whereas normal times whole area would have been closed. So they were able to do safe work arounds without hampering the works in progress. Also by doing it in superquick time will have meant cost savings on the project could be had through the time savings.

So Covid allowed projects to be brought forward. So when more flights started operating they could do so without disruption to passengers and also allow revenue streams to be had a couple of years ahead of the 10 year business plan.

[N707ZS]

The situation with KLM is what has been happening for years must be a job for the mayors men to get sorted.

[Harold77]

The article is somewhat misleading, claiming the housing land "could now be kept for its intended purposes" is ridiculous, given this new hangar complex will at best incorporate 25% of said land, with the bulk still unsuitable for aviation use, which is why housing was planned for there in the first instance.


It may be a case of you say the hangars only occupy 25% of that section of land, but far more important will be the aprons and stands that can be utilised on the remaining 75% of that section of land.

[Harold77]

I've got a feeling that non-commercial flights aren't included as well.

While on the subject of H3, the switch between hangars 1 and 2 needed 'change of use' planning permission, but nothing for H3?

Wouldn't the change of use for Hangar 3 come under Permitted Development Rights, so wouldn't need to go through planning. Or that it already has the use granted through previous applications.

[SKOJB]

More activity on this thread than at the airport! 😂

[SWBKCB]

Wouldn't the change of use for Hangar 3 come under Permitted Development Rights, so wouldn't need to go through planning. Or that it already has the use granted through previous applications.

No idea - just curious as to why hangar 1/2 did and hangar 3 didn't.

[onion]

No idea - just curious as to why hangar 1/2 did and hangar 3 didn't.

I'm guessing that previously it all fell under Class B and hence no change of use. Now it possibly needs to go from Class B to Class E or part of the operation does!

It all changed in 2020 sometime.

[Robert-Ryan]

It may be a case of you say the hangars only occupy 25% of that section of land, but far more important will be the aprons and stands that can be utilised on the remaining 75% of that section of land.
I was including aprons and stands. Would make no sense to expand back-over when you can carry on parallel to the existing infrastructure

[SWBKCB]

What area are we talking about?

[highwideandugly]

I agree with R-R..it looks very short sighted developing a scrap area that way.Using valuable space is not future proofing passenger or apron development on that site?

Surely south side with the vast area would be a better solution?

[highwideandugly]

Think it’s the picture from the Echo..not sure how to paste to here?

[Harold77]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/willis_expansion_b3efe9f29e1b6dd3761bfa0dc9987b1e04694a0a.jp g
This is the area for the Willis expansion.

[N707ZS]

The property guys have their eyes on the Southside. Northside does have all the infrastructure so in principle a new prefab wide body hangar could be created in a shorter period of time. And don't forget Willis isn't a scrap company like its predecessors.

[Harold77]

I agree with R-R..it looks very short sighted developing a scrap area that way.Using valuable space is not future proofing passenger or apron development on that site?

Surely south side with the vast area would be a better solution?

Willis is not a scrap company. Disassembley is only part of their operations. They do maintenance, part swaps, storage.

[SWBKCB]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/willis_expansion_b3efe9f29e1b6dd3761bfa0dc9987b1e04694a0a.jp g
This is the area for the Willis expansion.

Yes - that was the area planned for housing by Peel. Putting an industrial estate there seems even barmier, how to keep in with the neighbours. Willis would seem to be prime customers for the southside.

[Jamesair1]

Putting housing on the edge of an airport always seemed like a bad idea.....with all the potential for future noise complaints, especially if you want the airport to expand.

[SWBKCB]

If putting housing on the edge of an airport is a bad idea, expanding the airport towards the housing isn't great either, if that is what is planned.

[Harold77]

Yes - that was the area planned for housing by Peel. Putting an industrial estate there seems even barmier, how to keep in with the neighbours. Willis would seem to be prime customers for the southside.

I would say two hangars at the back and two hangars on the side. All movement in that area will be tugged with any engine running done out on the aprons/ stands airfield end of the site. Thus this reduces the noise complaints next to the houses.

[N707ZS]

Planning shouldn't be a problem going by everything else which has been pushed through.

[tramontana]

I would have thought that the obvious place for Willis is the South Side where possibly the remains of Ruhr Express are buried, in regards to noise and housing, the Airfield has been there since WW2, if you don't like aircraft or the noise they make you don't buy a house near an Airfield.
I find it very annoying that the old Airfield at Croft has been used for racing cars and motorcycles since the 40's/ 50's and you have people buying houses in the area complaining about noise making it difficult for the Owners to make the venue viable, the house owners are usually the same people that used to go to the old Football Stadiums at Darlington and Middlesbrough and cause traffic, parking problems and noise pollution for the residents.

[SWBKCB]

the Airfield has been there since WW2, if you don't like aircraft or the noise they make you don't buy a house near an Airfield.

Which is fine as a general principle, but the area suggested by H77 isn't currently part of the airfield, so this would be moving the airfield towards the houses. As you suggest, the best place for this sort of aviation related industrial activity might be the area identified in the masterplan and for which planning permission has been granted for these sorts of activities i.e. the south side.

[Harold77]

Teesside Airport CAA Figures for November 2021:

Aircraft Movements 1471
Passenger Terminal & Transit 6959

Amsterdam 888
Alicante 2550

Aberdeen 1596
Belfast 503
Heathrow 1398
Luton 24

[highwideandugly]

Figures out for November…ouch….4/5k down on comparable years 2018 and 2019.

Looking forward to the mayor’s spin on that🙈

A lot of TVCA money riding on improvements..but suspect December will be similar?
Duty Free and Spa(opening soon) will be offering some pretty good discounts I think!

[tigertanaka]

November CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 6,959 (compared to 11,810 passengers in October and 11,273 in November 2019 - November 2020 was badly impacted by covid)

Aberdeen: 1,596 (+3% versus October and +4% vs November 2019)
Belfast City: 503 (compared to 685 in October)
Heathrow: 1,398 (compared to 1,448 in October)
Alicante: 2,550 (compared to 2,456 in October)
Amsterdam: 888 (compared to 715 in October)
Plus 24 on charters to/from Luton

Overall numbers have dropped compared to October due to the ending of seasonal routes to Palma, Corfu, Faro and Newquay and are down on pre-covid levels due to the lack of demand/flights to Amsterdam which was regularly pulling in 10,000 a month 2 years ago. Aberdeen is in line with pre-covid levels but nowhere near the circa 2,500 a month when Loganair and Eastern were going head to head. Belfast dropped in November due to fewer rotations but loads were higher than October. Heathrow loads continue to grow and were 14.6 in November (12.5 in October, 11.5 in September and 9.9 in August).

Alicante loads continue to be impressive at 142 per flight in November - plus loads and overall passenger numbers were both higher than October (which included half term). Loads to Amsterdam have been in the mid 30s for the past 3 months and passenger numbers seem unlikely to improve until KLM restore multiple daily flights.

[highwideandugly]

Another way of looking at it …7000 total passengers means 3500 outbound(ish)..means 117 passengers per day flying out of a £100 million pound airport in November. Ouch again..

[Cautious Optimist]

Figures out for November…ouch….4/5k down on comparable years 2018 and 2019.

Looking forward to the mayor’s spin on that🙈
Highwide, can you please stop making it sound like the airport has somehow lost the passengers, how in the blue hell are 2018 and 2019 comparable years to the last two?!

If it's not the negative brigade it's people who think they are informed but are actually clueless :ugh:

[davidjohnson6]

Highwide has a point in that while the last 2 years have been awful... MME will need to show a significant improvement soon.
The pot of money to support MME will not last forever

[Harold77]

Figures out for November…ouch….4/5k down on comparable years 2018 and 2019.

Looking forward to the mayor’s spin on that🙈

A lot of TVCA money riding on improvements..but suspect December will be similar?
Duty Free and Spa(opening soon) will be offering some pretty good discounts I think!


Back in 2018/9. KLM were just under 10k on two flights a day. KLM for November were only a couple flights a week with only an evening flight.

December saw KLM change the flight time to a dinnertime flight. This should boost their figures in December, but only way they are going to jump considerably is for the morning flights to start and last flight of evening to return. But also figures hampered by the Dutch having real tight covid restrictions, which could still hamper KLM figures.

[SKOJB]

Highwide has a point in that while the last 2 years have been awful... MME will need to show a significant improvement soon.
The pot of money to support MME will not last forever

Agreed, when considering the amount of investment ploughed in to the airport over the past 2 years, those pax numbers are concerning to say the least and ultimately unsustainable!

[Harold77]

It was always expected with the Summer season over and number of routes finished til next year that passenger numbers drop away, especially with covid having a considerable effect.

Aircraft Movements are up by nearly 230 compared to November 2019.

Amsterdam figures going in the right direction. This should improve further as the flight was brought forward to dinnertime in December, but the Dutch increased covid restrictions in December. So if December figures go pear shaped even with earlier flight then this will be down to the Dutch Covid restrictions.
What is really required to see numbers jump considerably for KLM is for the morning flight and evening return flights to be reinstasted. As this will open up day trip, business meetings and connections markets thus fueling demand and numbers increase significantly.

Aberdeen passengers slightly up on 2019.

Belfast passengers have seen a drop compared to recent months but this to be expected as travel season has passed, but also covid restrictions in Northern Ireland could be having effect. December should be interesting to see with Christmas travel for family.

Heathrow slightly down compared to previous months but still roughly in same area as previous months.

Alicante seeing its best month so far this year. It is great to see that demand is increasing for the Ryanair international flights.


So looking broadly this financial year compared to 2019 for flight movements:
April -3%
May +12%
June +63%
July +51%
August +48%
September +11%
October +21%
November +16%

This is a good indication that the Airport is heading the right direction. It is not all about passenger flights for the airport, there is much much more to activities. Increased military activity with the Draken fleet. So even with the loss of the summer routes, aircraft movements are still climbing. So going off the aircraft movements alone shows really impressive improvements.

The Airport is in a really good postition going into 2022. Just need the remaining Covid restrictions lifted worldwide then Teesside Airport can start to boom.

The benchmark to see how the Airport is performing is to compare it with 2019.

What a few on here, on facebook and media are doing are just looking at figures alone, they are not looking at the figures in context to which they represent. It is only when you look at them in the full context that you see a different picture and a one that shows positivity in the gloom. The over riding factor is Covid, if you look at the figures without having Covid as context then you get a false impression.

If Covid never happened and a full timetable was in operation, then passenger numbers would have been soaring this past year and would have been easily in the region of 350-400k for 2021.
Yes the 2020-21 financial year was awful which was soley down to Covid.
The 2021-22 financial year is going to be a bit grim to read, but there will be a lot more context to look into than the headline figures will read. Effects of Covid along with big investments will have to be taken into account when looking at the 2021-22 financial report. So don't go moaning when you see the financial results headlines.

Teesside Airport has faired better than other Airports going into Covid. Teesside had a low starting point so not much to be lost compared with other Airports. Having Draken, IAS Medical and Fire School has kept airfield operations ticking over throughout the past two years.

[Cautious Optimist]

Covid is only a temporary setback if a lengthy one, the capacity on all routes reflects the potential of the route during normal times, if anything it falls short, and I would hope the airport is looking at it from this point of view and not panicking over a couple of years worth of poor figures that can be attributed to Covid and not performance.

[SWBKCB]

H77 and CO are absolutely right, we need to see what happens when the Covid clouds clear. A few comments though

What is really required to see numbers jump considerably for KLM is for the morning flight and evening return flights to be reinstasted. As this will open up day trip, business meetings and connections markets thus fueling demand and numbers increase significantly.

But the airline which knows the Teesside market better than anybody has been slow to re-instate flights and has offered a bare minimum service so far

Heathrow slightly down compared to previous months but still roughly in same area as previous months.

While we wait for the world to get back to normal, normal didn't include regional jets on domestic services into LHR. LHR have also just increased their charges, and changes at Darlington and Middlesbrough have increased competition from the trains.

Alicante seeing its best month so far this year. It is great to see that demand is increasing for the Ryanair international flights.

It'll be a very interesting summer for RYR - they are a game-changer for the airport in terms of the numbers they bring through the terminal and so make the most of the money that has been spent on it. Take RYR away and the terminal as it was could easily have handled KLM, LM and the other odds and sods.

Having Draken, IAS Medical and Fire School has kept airfield operations ticking over throughout the past two years.

Agreed - passenger numbers aren't the be all and end all and a diversity of operations helps keep the business robust. However, southside development still slow/non-existent, and in a covid period where similar companies have been filling their boots, Willis have been very quiet.

And on a completely different point, does anybody else have problems seeing H77's posts? I can see they are there from the main menu but don't see anything when I open the thread until somebody posts a reply after. Very odd - never seen anything like it before, any ideas?

[N707ZS]

I was wondering if he was being moderated.

[Harold77]

And on a completely different point, does anybody else have problems seeing H77's posts? I can see they are there from the main menu but don't see anything when I open the thread until somebody posts a reply after. Very odd - never seen anything like it before, any ideas?

I am on moderation. I think it is with being a new member that they have new members on moderation to see what they are like, before they let me off the leash. Hence why it says I've replied and it is not showing up immediately until later after my post has been approved. So you have to check back up a few posts to find out what I've said. (Same with this post)

[highwideandugly]

Great posts..you are moderated in my view! Has been strange though!

[Cautious Optimist]

Interesting that the airport is looking for as many as 10 new firefighters, that's an entirely new Watch isn't it?

[onion]

Interesting that the airport is looking for as many as 10 new firefighters, that's an entirely new Watch isn't it?

Possibly a night watch or a overall upgrade of fire cover through out the day.

All of which could hint at either night flights or extended fire cat cover for based low cost!

[jorvik]

Without wanting to be a negative Nancy, is this not just to stop a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul? Quick look at the notams suggests Cat’s range from 3 to 4 then up to Cat 7 for a 737-800. So to save having to move staff around in the summer for the odd FR on flying days have a set of fire fighters across all watches to up to Cat 7 on those days?

[N707ZS]

If they are planning these extra fire staff they must have a business plan on the table to justify them. Also a number of the current staff might have reached retirement age.

[SWBKCB]

If they are planning these extra fire staff they must have a business plan on the table to justify them. Also a number of the current staff might have reached retirement age.

Yes - if it's an increase in numbers that's what, another £0.5m to the annual running costs?

[Harold77]

Increase in Fire cover is for increase in amount of air traffic, increase in aircraft size and increase in businesses at the airport.

[N707ZS]

Airport looks as good as closed with no flights today.

[mmeteesside]

If they are planning these extra fire staff they must have a business plan on the table to justify them. Also a number of the current staff might have reached retirement age.
I noted that the job advert said operational hours were roughly 0530-2330 but then further down it said expected to work 24 hours. Wonder if the plan is to open overnight, in which case there must be a plan in place for something…?

[SWBKCB]

The advert says
This role is 42 hours per week contracted to 9 hours per shift on a rota covering the operational hours of 05:30 to 23:25.

it then goes on to say

Flexible attitude to working hours, work activities and an ability to work shifts as the role will involve working an operational shift pattern providing cover up to 24 hours, averaging 42 hours per week including weekends

I read that as being your shifts will be 05:30 to 23:25 but you maybe asked to work outside these hours - for example to cover for delayed flights etc. If it means regular working outside of the operational hours its poorly written IMHO

[Hipennine]

Or it means:
"Hours initially will be.....but in due course this may extend to 24 hour coverage, and that is contractually in place now in case we need it"

[highwideandugly]

According to the great DTV movements site..nil schedule movements today? Covid hitting really bad?

Surely all the concessions will be closed too? At movement looks like winter is a write off!

[SWBKCB]

Or it means:
"Hours initially will be.....but in due course this may extend to 24 hour coverage, and that is contractually in place now in case we need it"

If they think they can snare people that way, there needs to be some recruitment in the HR dept as well! :ok: The contractual bits go in yr contract, not some coded message in the job advert.

Airport looks as good as closed with no flights today.

Looking at the arrivals/departures for next week, fewer flights than under Peel?

[Cautious Optimist]

Looking at the arrivals/departures for next week, fewer flights than under Peel?
Peel didn't have Covid to contend with

[SWBKCB]

It was only a couple of days ago that it was being commented that Covid hadn't impacted MME as badly as other places - not so far to fall, less of a rebound

[N707ZS]

Winter Saturday hasn't had flights for years so nothing new.

[highwideandugly]

Years? I think just last year(Covid)..

[Harold77]

I've been amazed at the weekday Aircraft Movements numbers during December and January. Even though it may show no services, there has been private aircraft flying so it is not as blank as it made out to be on movement page.

Am I currently concerned about lack of Saturday service during Winter. No I am not, this is mainly down to Covid causing a distinct lack of travel demand.

Do I see this Saturday hiatus lasting long. No. Traffic will be back on a weekend as people start moving about more freely.

[highwideandugly]

That’s ok then..

[Harold77]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/980x2000/wizz_tees_a1e4531d007b560538dd56a8e77caaa2edfea41d.jpg
Could there be some news sometime soon. If so it will be a great addition to the airport.

[P330]

I doubt it’s an error. We’ve seen this cooking before up thread.

I believe Wizz are close....

[No-More-Bullschit]

Wizz Air were on the leaked list of airlines and were the only one that had some kind of advertisement attached suggesting it was over the line? But that was ages ago does it take this long to announce?

[N707ZS]

What routes would our experts suggest, surely not a logan/eastern head to head on the Alicante.

[P330]

Obviously not Logan/Eastern head to head to Alicante....😋

But for a route to succeed, it would have to be full most of the year, or at least Summer. Malaga is one, Tenerife is another. Prague at a push.

We don’t want to compete with Ryanair routes.

[Cautious Optimist]

That photo listing Teesside as a Wizz destination was posted to another group and the Mayor replied with "News to me!". If it was still happening, I would have expected "Watch this space" or similar.

[SWBKCB]

You'd be amazed if Wizz weren't at the very top of the list of the people they've been talking to, but I thought the announcement of the WizzUK base at DSA was a bit too close for comfort.

[Harold77]

I wouldn't say that WizzUK having their base in Doncaster would be much of a problem. If in fact it might be beneficial in some ways, especially when it comes to rejigging aircraft diagrams that can just pop one up the road if required. Or if a problem and can fit both Tees & Donny loads onto one aircraft they could drop into/ out of Tees or Donny on their way over to Europe.

[SWBKCB]

I wouldn't say that WizzUK having their base in Doncaster would be much of a problem. If in fact it might be beneficial in some ways, especially when it comes to rejigging aircraft diagrams that can just pop one up the road if required. Or if a problem and can fit both Tees & Donny loads onto one aircraft they could drop into/ out of Tees or Donny on their way over to Europe.

I think more of an issue might be them drawing off over-lapping catchement areas.

[N707ZS]

What routes would our experts suggest, surely not a logan/eastern head to head on the Alicante.
Apologies should have read Logan/Eastern type head to head, this time Wizz and Ryan air.

[oldart]

Once again do the people of Tees Valley know about flight destinations from MME! It's not that long ago that Jet2 had adverts plastered on the side of buses in and about Teesside. Apart from the airport web site what advertising has been done to attract passengers to use the airport? Most travel agents seem to direct people towards NCL or LBA, commission incentives!!!

[Derry321]

It's not commission incentives - it's the operators. As a travel agent myself, we no longer use Ryanair as they have, throughout the pandemic, been an absolute nightmare. Then the other operator, Tui, do not play ball with non Tui agents from a pricing perspective (had an enquiry yesterday where if I was to match the direct price web price I would have lost £90 - impossible).

Jet2 on the other hand are very trade friendly, and in my case account for around 80% of our bucket and spade business - hence the shift to NCL/LBA

[N707ZS]

I see hangar 3 seems to be almost finished being converted for cargo operation. No sign of the new GA hangars or the promised temporary shelters for the winter.

[highwideandugly]

What does the conversion entail?

I wonder who is paying for the promised GA hangers or shelters ?

[N707ZS]

A landside to airside door was installed. Inside there seems to be a large x-ray machine and the airside doors have been fixed so that only a new roller door can be used.

[teej013]

"Major Airshow Returning to Teesside Airport this June" announcement in the Northern Echo

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19850715.major-airshow-returning-teesside-airport-june/

Saturday June 11th 2022.

[N707ZS]

We were expecting an announcement about flights, passenger or cargo but instead the Air Show has been re-incarnated after being told the airport will be too busy for that sort of thing in previous years. And yes I do know something is better than nothing.

[teej013]

“This is just another way that our airport is being about more than flights to Alicante, and helping to generate visitors in its own right."
Quoth the Mayor

[N707ZS]

Visitors to an air show run by a third party with proceeds given to a charity run by the airport. I would rather have flights to anywhere week in week out just like they have at every successful airport.

[Harold77]

Draken is to expand operations at Teesside.

Job adverts for Fast Jet L159 Captain.

It is expected a number of L159's are going to be based at Teesside alongside the Falcons.

[SKOJB]

Draken is to expand operations at Teesside.

Job adverts for Fast Jet L159 Captain.

It is expected a number of L159's are going to be based at Teesside alongside the Falcons.

Assume as replacements for 100sq Aggressor Hawks

[N707ZS]

Finally good development and no photo shoot for the mayor. Better news than any air show.

[SWBKCB]

Mr Forster told committee members how the airport now had a “very good route mix” with hopes KLM will bring three flights a day from Amsterdam in April. He added: “The Britsh Airways code-share with Heathrow is working very well. The numbers are starting to really go well on that. The forward bookings across the board are doing well.” The airport boss said there’d been good uptake on bookings for TUI flights to Antalya, in Turkey, from May, and routes to Majorca. And he added they were “having a number of exciting conversations” with new airlines.

He added there was a “big push” on the wider airport estate - saying there were freight and cargo ambitions and work was continuing on the airport’s “South Side”. Mr Forster said: “There are Amazon warehouses going up left right and centre and we’ve got to capitalise on it.”There were 5,348 passengers in October last year out of a total of around 13,900 available seats on flights. November saw 3,335 passengers out of a maximum number of 7,604 seats and December saw 2,696 passengers out of a total of 7,422 seats on flights.


Teesside Airport boss wants to 'sweat the asset' after tough time for the aviation industry (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-airport-boss-wants-sweat-22791522)

[Cautious Optimist]

Finally good development and no photo shoot for the mayor. Better news than any air show.
The Air Show is perfectly good news, I don't know why you're so against it??

[Harold77]

The advert only live on the 13th Jan for a Fast Jet Captain. Today or past day or so the advert has changed to say L159 Captain. I don't think there will be a full public announcement about it all until they are ready to start the contract or when the first aircraft arrives at Teesside.

[SWBKCB]

The Air Show is perfectly good news, I don't know why you're so against it??

Maybe he's read this?

https://www.teesvalleymonitor.com/teesside-air-show-its-bad-and-its-back

[Cautious Optimist]

Maybe he's read this?

https://www.teesvalleymonitor.com/teesside-air-show-its-bad-and-its-back
True as that may be it doesn't change the fact it's a top event

[highwideandugly]

No Heathrow’s today or tomorrow…any reason..or still Covid? Thought a few folk could be chain ganged into flying?

I think that’s the problem and always really has been…people don’t seem to need or want a local airport apart from two weeks in the sun?

[N707ZS]

A bit of interesting reading, does this mean the airport is restricted from larger aircraft. Extracted from the Tees Valley monitor.


https://le-cdn.website-editor.net/s/16b732e8e4c24ba48d6c06b0922a0514/dms3rep/multi/opt/2021-10-01+%289%29-1920w.png?Expires=1645283419&Signature=EXIRIA7pU~jxUDUYRpDBNTj-HpKSdjfl3XWdyxICZjAoSaROhZbYJzSyaxe8LHisrFdM4DjQg8AUGF5J3xLV X46aaW5NsaIDvkY-v1u~dBUTPFcLNRnCSsg~S9drO~LiUtkrRqVvVdT9Otf7LB84kQthBFrkB50U 9jY8P9mlKWfK3GtwT4LGbY4gTSn2rQ-2B-KB5GU8BgvtzFTrXLWrZzgQ4AldjT2icUFnTn8iFihD4aP0H8LSUmUzsmXI3l zMO1f3IM3drld22x5KmonLa~1FcuORN5JhP943ns4e3dgN41hX93ZVLiAjGX Wd5ZnuWWygiw8i54jy0d6FHlcDiw__&Key-Pair-Id=K2NXBXLF010TJW

[SWBKCB]

PCN's are complicated, and it's more to do with the axle loading than the size of the aircraft. Basically aircraft with a higher axle loading can operate but the frequency of use is limited.

[Harold77]

There was a Cargo Logic Air 747 in 2015 without problems. So have had 747's in with no issues before and they used Taxiway B.

[N707ZS]

And don't forget three Antonov 124s Harold.

[oldart]

And Air Force one and partner plus the B 767. Known to have taken BA 747 diverts.

[SWBKCB]

The press has been covering the Tees Mayor giving a private company most of the Tees Works assets, as he said he wouldn't have the money to develop the site or words to that effect.

Which was pretty much the reason Peel came in and then were given an increased shareholding. Round and round the circle goes...

[N707ZS]

I think the noses are already in the trough at the airport loads of lovely Southside to be had.

[P330]

Full KLM schedule now delayed until the end of April.

[SKOJB]

Full KLM schedule now delayed until the end of April.

No surprise, looking at other regionals their full KLM schedules don’t kick in until then also. This of course could be pushed back again!

[AirportPlanner1]

Netherlands has just emerged from lockdown and from the UK there is 5-10 day quarantine for entry. So leisure travel will be virtually non-existent, P2P business very low and connections remain constrained by ongoing reduced demand and some destinations being closed. Until that changes further delay in full schedule from any UK airport is inevitable.

[Harold77]

Job Vaccancies for Draken at Teesside:

Draken00197 - Falcon 20 Captain
Draken00200 - Electronic Warfare Officer (EWO)
Draken00209 - L159 Captain
Draken00221 - Fleet Captain L159

[highwideandugly]

Is Heathrow down-to only one per day?

As the slots fill up..how long will a 30/40 seater aircraft continue to take a prime slot? Will Loganair introduce larger aircraft ?

Never mind…Sumer 2022 should bring plenty of business with Ryanair to Alicante..🙁

What a waste of money which could have helped the needy and locals of Teesside and the Cleveland area.

[Harold77]

Is Heathrow down-to only one per day?

As the slots fill up..how long will a 30/40 seater aircraft continue to take a prime slot? Will Loganair introduce larger aircraft ?



Another 2x ATR72-600 are expected to join the fleet in coming weeks.

I agree with you that 37/49 seaters are too low capacity for such a route. The London & Aberdeen routes should really be in the hands of the 70 seater ATR72-600's as a minimum. This would help lower cost units, make fares a bit more attractive and increase capacity.

[Fly757X]

Another 2x ATR72-600 are expected to join the fleet in coming weeks.

I agree with you that 37/49 seaters are too low capacity for such a route. The London & Aberdeen routes should really be in the hands of the 70 seater ATR72-600's as a minimum. This would help lower cost units, make fares a bit more attractive and increase capacity.

Teesside will be one if the last places seeing their ATRs…

[BristolexFlyer]

Another 2x ATR72-600 are expected to join the fleet in coming weeks.

I agree with you that 37/49 seaters are too low capacity for such a route. The London & Aberdeen routes should really be in the hands of the 70 seater ATR72-600's as a minimum. This would help lower cost units, make fares a bit more attractive and increase capacity.

Teesside to Aberdeen and London with 70 seaters in the current climate. What are you smoking?!?

BeF

[SKOJB]

Another 2x ATR72-600 are expected to join the fleet in coming weeks.

I agree with you that 37/49 seaters are too low capacity for such a route. The London & Aberdeen routes should really be in the hands of the 70 seater ATR72-600's as a minimum. This would help lower cost units, make fares a bit more attractive and increase capacity.

They can’t fill an Embraer 49 seater on those routes now so no chance of anything larger, dream on!

[GrahamK]

Bare in mind, the LHR route will be gone as soon as whoever has leased the slots to Loganair want them back

[Cautious Optimist]

You would think the government departments coming up north would guarantee and protect a London route, I think once those departments are fully up and running the route will do just fine. As GrahamK says it depends when whoever is leasing them wants them back

[SWBKCB]

You would think the government departments coming up north would guarantee and protect a London route, I think once those departments are fully up and running the route will do just fine. As GrahamK says it depends when whoever is leasing them wants them back

Only for tranistting LHR to go abroad. Won't be used for travel to London with a mainline station on the doorstep. Have you not heard of the climate crisis? Many Govt depts have banned domestic flights.

[Cautious Optimist]

I remember you saying that previously actually. Seems to me to be the foundations for your typical Government scandal, can't see Ben wanting them using the train over his prized Heathrow service so will find a loophole

[SWBKCB]

Don't think Ben has much influence over the travel policies of govt depts. And aren't they spending a load of money on Darlington station as well?

Be interesting to see how long LHR want to be nice to 40 seaters before they start re-structuring their charges.

[Cautious Optimist]

If bmi were turning passengers away with 4x daily A320s competing against the trains, we should manage 2x daily E145 no matter how good the trains may have become

[BA318]

If bmi were turning passengers away with 4x daily A320s competing against the trains, we should manage 2x daily E145 no matter how good the trains may have become

The world has changed a lot in that time. Domestic flying is frowned upon by many companies. E145 costs are much higher per passenger and did BMI actually make a profit on the route? It’s easy to carry loads of passengers. It’s hard making money from them.

[Harold77]

CAA Airport December 2020 figures.

Aircraft Movements 1,011
Terminal Passengers 5,798

Aberdeen 1,510
Belfast 563
Bournemouth 40 (Charter)
Cardiff 37 (Charter)
Heathrow 1359

Alicante 1,159
Amsterdam 788
Enontekio 342

Covid restrictions for entry to overseas countries still really biting at the numbers, such as the Netherlands tight entry restrictions.

Aircraft Movements summary:
2021 finished with just under 1,300 extra movements compared to 2019. Even with a dire start to 2021 huge increases were seen over the spring/ summer/ autumn so helped neutralise the negative start of the year. So Aircraft Movement wise puts the airport on a good footing going into 2022. So when we compare the monthly totals between 2022 & 2019 we will see some big increases in usage. Covid is still having a real big effect on schedules for the start of 2022, hopefully we will see full timetable operations begin in the not too distant future as places start to return to normality.

[highwideandugly]

Roughly 94 departing passengers per day….wonder how many will use the newly opened spa😀

[jorvik]

Aircraft movements mean nothing when they are practically empty. Revenue through the terminal is what keeps money in the bank.

[onion]

Aircraft movements mean nothing when they are practically empty. Revenue through the terminal is what keeps money in the bank.

Well Draken will be most displeased with your assumption that they should be carrying fare paying passengers!

Honestly I wonder where some people get the business brains from. MME has more to it than pax and a terminal. Yes it maybe losing money at the moment but
1. Who isnt in this climate and
2. The business plan envisaged loss making for a period.

[highwideandugly]

Darken I believe is a fixed contract price? So movements don’t actually mean much in the grand scheme of things?

Jorvik is right..airports make their money with foot fall through the terminal..car parking,duty free,spas! etc. Therefore there is a massive financial burden on those 94 departing passengers !

Remind me how long the business plan envisaged making a loss for?

[Get me some traffic]

Draken may pay a fixed price for movements but I doubt if that applies to fuel and other commodities?
When the Aviation industry was all but closed last year or so, Draken (FRA) continued to operate. The losses incurred by MME would have been much more without them.
Onion is right, MME is more than just pax. The business base overall is improving, it will take time but I believe Ben's plan will work.

[N707ZS]

And don't forget IAS medical who operate Beech King airs and Da 62s, Thales with their Beech 200 and Da 42 all requiring fuel. The fire school also had to stay open to keep firefighter current.

[Harold77]

Darken I believe is a fixed contract price? So movements don’t actually mean much in the grand scheme of things?

Jorvik is right..airports make their money with foot fall through the terminal..car parking,duty free,spas! etc. Therefore there is a massive financial burden on those 94 departing passengers !

Remind me how long the business plan envisaged making a loss for?


Draken may be fixed price contract. But Falcon operations are increasing significantly and expansion of operations with Aggressor unit. So with increased operations there will be significant increase in fuel requirements etc

Then you have the other flight companies based at the airport, such as Medical, Callibration and Flight Training/ Pleasure. Then there is Private General Aviation planes. Teesside also sees a really significant amount of business jet usage that has been increasing over the past few years.

Teesside has more non passenger activities than many other airports. Thus Movements does become a significant barometer of performance, especially the covid restrictions.

[Albert Hall]

Just reading this thread for the first time in ages, there seem to be some very insular attitudes or agendas in play. The activity levels at pretty much every UK airport are at rock-bottom again right now, with the Omicron impact on passenger demand being the reason for it. It is hopefully short-term but it is severe. From what I can see:

Cardiff has only one flight departure on Wednesday for the entire day - Ryanair to Dublin.
Southend remains all but closed.
Gatwick has one of two terminals still firmly shut.
Doncaster has one flight departure on Wednesday for the whole day - Wizz to Bucharest.

Airports that were/are much larger than MME are seeing vastly reduced levels of traffic right now. 94 passengers a day by those standards isn't bad. So as I say, I'm not sure whether it's simply an insular approach or whether it's driving a particular agenda, but at least a) the airport is still open and b) there are flights going to and from it. In today's world, that's a bonus.

[SWBKCB]

Unsure when the next Tees Valley election is,

Think it's a three year term, so May 24?

[Cautious Optimist]

A common theory is the mayor will have had a promotion to Westminster by the time the next election comes around. Hopefully by then things will be advanced enough that there will be no going back, as the last thing we need is yet another abandoned development

[SWBKCB]

Yes - the same people involved in the southside as Teeswork

I'm a bit baffled as to what has actually been announced, is there anything more than the press release on the Airports website?

[N707ZS]

And the fact that it says complete by the summer. Its took nearly two years to build a three bar fence from the main road and that's in the wrong location. Then millions spent on hangar 3. Mayor Ben seems to be working from the little book of Boris.

[DP.]

The world has changed a lot in that time. Domestic flying is frowned upon by many companies.

This is very true. I work for a fairly large company and domestic flying is now pretty much not permitted unless it's a route where the train journey is particularly onerous (ABZ is the obvious example), or there's some other exceptional circumstance. There's almost no scenario where we would be permitted to fly from Manchester to London, for example. Under our policy, it'd be very rare that a Darlington to London journey by air would be approved

[Harold77]

TUI flights this year with operators confirmed.

Freebird operate Antalya flights.
AlbaStar operate the Palma flights.

Info Teesside Movements page.

[BACsuperVC10]

This is very true. I work for a fairly large company and domestic flying is now pretty much not permitted unless it's a route where the train journey is particularly onerous (ABZ is the obvious example), or there's some other exceptional circumstance. There's almost no scenario where we would be permitted to fly from Manchester to London, for example. Under our policy, it'd be very rare that a Darlington to London journey by air would be approved
I think your right, domestic air travel seems to have not been supported by passengers. Unfortunately Cross Country travel by rail is still inadequate!

[tigertanaka]

I think your right, domestic air travel seems to have not been supported by passengers. Unfortunately Cross Country travel by rail is still inadequate!

I think there a few things here:

Environmental considerations are definitely far more of an influence on personal and business travel choices than they were a few years years ago. That said, if was a highly paid consultant living in Windsor and had to go to a meeting at the government offices in Darlington, I would be pushing to fly.
Business travel is still far below pre-covid levels. With people now happily working at home on Zoom/Teams, how much will this actually recover long term?
There is definitely a role for domestic aviation on the right routes given the alternatives. I did a NCL-SOU day trip this week on the plane at a cost of £321. The other options (train: £300/arrive at lunchtime and car: £100 in fuel/arrive at lunchtime/can't work while travelling) would have both required an overnight stay, not to mention the value of my time in taking 2 days up of my schedule instead of one really long day. For Teesside, routes such as Aberdeen, Southampton, Bristol/Cardiff, Exeter and Belfast all fit this criteria.
Heathrow is clearly not performing to expectations, loads are building every month but the current schedule is clearly not in line with expectations. However, if we believe that there are still some people who do still want to fly domestically, they will not use a service unless the timings work for them - especially when we have such a good train service between Darlington and London. One flight a day is not the service required on this route.
Domestic flights are not all about point-to-point travel. Pre-covid, KLM had 10,000 passengers a month on the AMS route, the vast majority of these people are connecting on somewhere else. With the right schedule (3 daily) passengers using the Loganair/BA codeshare and connecting onto the BA network could really support the O&D domestic demand.
Given the return to slot usage rules, I wonder how much the slot holders (I suspect BA) are paying Loganair to slot sit for them at Heathrow? And more importantly, when do they think that demand will have picked up for the owner to use the slots for themselves?

[P330]

Are the Jetsgo flights to Palma still going ahead this year?

[SWBKCB]

That said, if was a highly paid consultant living in Windsor and had to go to a meeting at the government offices in Darlington, I would be pushing to fly.

Whitehall still more likely...

Heathrow is clearly not performing to expectations, loads are building every month

November and December were worse than October. I agree that LHR is more important for transit than domestic passengers, but that's never been a big earner. Also charges can be a constraining factor as well as slots, the 'connecting Britian' PR spin might still have some benefit for LHR but if they get back to towards anything like full slot use they ain't going to want 40 seaters.

[tigertanaka]

Whitehall still more likely...



November and December were worse than October. I agree that LHR is more important for transit than domestic passengers, but that's never been a big earner. Also charges can be a constraining factor as well as slots, the 'connecting Britian' PR spin might still have some benefit for LHR but if they get back to towards anything like full slot use they ain't going to want 40 seaters.

Passenger numbers fell in November and December but that was down to fewer rotations. By my estimates, loads are increasing:

August: 9.9 pax per flight
September: 11.5
October: 12.5
November: 14.6
December: 16.2

[highwideandugly]

But I think only one flight per day now..so not much scope or optimism for increased loads/airline revenue?

[SKOJB]

TUI Antalya postponed til May ‘23 (thanks to @SeanM1997)

[N707ZS]

Rumour has it the new GA hangars have been cancelled and its the case of outside at a cost or leave for the little guy. No more mayors friendly airport. Someone else may know the full of it but loss of revenue from two accidents has been quoted and the airport going to 40 flights per day.

[highwideandugly]

40 flights per day? Oh well..🤔

How does that affect aircraft sleeping in hangers? Maybe for goodwill they could have remained inside until those 40 flights per day are achieved?

[SWBKCB]

40 flights per day? Oh well..🤔

How does that affect aircraft sleeping in hangers? Maybe for goodwill they could have remained inside until those 40 flights per day are achieved?

Hangar 3 was the GA hangar, and the inhabitants have been outside since they started converting it into the cargo centre.

[mmeteesside]

Hangar 3 was the GA hangar, and the inhabitants have been outside since they started converting it into the cargo centre.
Had a quick look on Saturday and noted a new roller shutter door in the landside of it and the new car park outside of it is complete. Let’s hope someone is due to move in shortly…

[SWBKCB]

Thought the cargo centre had been open for a few months - wasn't the Brazilian Embraer last year the first customer?

[highwideandugly]

That was the idea but don’t think there has been too many cargo flights so far,unless anyone know otherwise?

[N707ZS]

Brazilians just used the hangar mouth, hangar wasn't finished then.

[Harold77]

and the airport going to 40 flights per day.

Very interesting.

Certainly is going to become a real busy airport with a good mixture of aircraft and operations in time.

[jorvik]

40 flights per day? Suppose 2023 might get close when the now suspended AYT restarts. Never a good move sending what booked pax had taken the plunge to another airport.

[N707ZS]

Another interesting development suggesting someone doesn't want aviation on the Southside of the airport.
Jobs uncertainty at Teesside Airport fire training centre | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19923893.jobs-uncertainty-teesside-airport-fire-training-centre/)

[highwideandugly]

Say 2 Aberdeen,3 Amsterdam,2 Ryanair 1 Belfast, 2 TUI , 1 jersey, 1 London plus say 3 more unknown.All guesswork of course..but a bit of a template.

Lots of assumptions and guess work!

I make that 15 ish maximum departures per day?..40 ? Doubtful I would suggest?

[GrahamK]

Say 2 Aberdeen,3 Amsterdam,2 Ryanair 1 Belfast, 2 TUI , 1 jersey, 1 London plus say 3 more unknown.All guesswork of course..but a bit of a template.

Lots of assumptions and guess work!

I make that 15 ish maximum departures per day?..40 ? Doubtful I would suggest?
40 flights a day probably includes all the FRA/Cobham/Whatever they are called now flights