Teesside-2

[P330]

in Ryanair terms, none of those are good, so hopefully they pick up for July onwards

And that’s my worry. To be fair though, they must have a target load factor by a certain date and we don’t know what that is. Let’s just hope they keep improving (and quickly).

[N707ZS]

How do the Ryanair loads compare to the neighbouring airport.

[highwideandugly]

Not just Ryanair to worry about.Considering the amount of flights KLM operate through the airport , it’s seems disproportionate, the amount of cancellations?
This weekend for instance there are no flights at all! I know it’s not technically the fault of Teesside..but the end result is the same?

Loganair with only two flights a week to Dublin and the Belfast loads not brilliant could also be interesting this winter?

Plenty of other airfield business though to keep it going!!

[highwideandugly]

How do the Ryanair loads compare to the neighbouring airport... you ask…


Anecdotal..but a friend went to Riga last week and returned 3 or maybe 4 days later..he counted on board ,en route..completely full outbound, 15 spare seats on return!

Of course no idea of fares or yield..and it was only one return trip 🤔

[toon22]

Not neighbouring airports but Aberdeen and Newquay to Faro and Alicante are direct comparisons, each with twice weekly services.

[Cautious Optimist]

This is why forums such as this are dangerous, the averages on our Ryanair routes are higher than quoted above. If you're going off a rolling average, they're only marginally higher, but higher nonetheless. But week-by-week, they are significantly higher. Either way, ALC, CFU, FAO and PMI are all doing well enough.

[mmeman]

Ryanair load factors (all based on FR24 flight info) - I think they are Alicante 85%, Faro 77%, Palma 69% - still under the average according the article. TUI is around 95% including the first flight back which will only have 7 day holiday people on. Jersey I reckon is averaging 68 assuming first flight from Jersey is the positioning flight - is there 68 seats on the ATR?

On my reckoning, for Ryanair flights from Newcastle where only Ryanair are operating - Riga 103 per flight 55%, Gdansk - 130 per flight 69%, Zadar - 100 per flight 53%, Chania 162 per flight 86%, Bergamo 105 per flight 56%, Krakow -134 per flight 71%, Wroclaw 118 per flight 62% (Newcastle seem to lump all pax figures under scheduled so you cant really work anything out with destinations with multiple operators)

Expect KLM numbers to decrease - all flights £396 single until 8th August - same pricing strategy for NCL (£370), HUY (£367), LBA (cheapest at £282 per flight) trying to reduce passenger numbers but still make some money? (MME the most expensive)

[toon22]

That’s precisely why I made no other comment. Other factors influencing route possibility: yield – which none of us know. Sector length: Aberdeen is over an hour per sector longer than Newquay with Teesside in the middle. Its contribution (profit) per block hour that really counts.

[LGS6753]

Of course, airport figures are passengers flown. An unknown is how many booked but were no-shows. It's difficult and not cost-effective to get refunds, apparently.

[AirportPlanner1]

Of course, airport figures are passengers flown. An unknown is how many booked but were no-shows. It's difficult and not cost-effective to get refunds, apparently.

To a great extent this isn’t relevant as virtually every route will have this, so the nos /% flown is still about as good a proxy measure for success as you’ll get.

[N707ZS]

Most of the Newcastle Riga flights were £4.99 each way for May.

[tigertanaka]

Here is my interpretation of the Ryanair routes for May. Note that the charter numbers given by the airport to the CAA for Palma (ie TUI) are clearly incorrect as there were only 6 rotations (probably officially only 5 as no-one would have been on the first inbound).

Destination / May pax / rotations / Ave pax / load factor
Alicante / 2,509 / 18 / 161.4 / 85.4%
Faro / 2,341 / 16 / 160.0 / 84.6%
Palma (scheduled so FR) / 2,262 / 18 / 125.7 / 66.5%

Palma (charter so TUI) / 1,247 / 6 / 207.8 / 110%
Palma (combined) / 3,509 / 24 / 146.2 / 77.4%

Assuming 189 seats on a 737-800 plus 95% loads and 5 segments on TUI in May, this would mean that Ryanair were getting a 76.7% load factor on Palma.

Happy to be corrected on these figures Cautious Optimist but if you think the May loads are better, this means the airport have been 7nder reporting to the CAA or there were fewer rotations than I have above (these are my numbers, not from the CAA).

As others have said, it’s the yield (and airport financial support) that really matters but in the absence of those juicy figures, all we can look at is loads.

mmeman there are 72 seats on the ATR to Jersey so a load factor of over 68 would seem pretty good if you assume there were actually only 3 flights (ie no one on the first inbound).

[Cautious Optimist]

Regarding the ATR, G-CMEI has 68 seats, whereas G-IACY/Z have 72, and since they can't guarantee the availability of G-IACY/Z, they can only sell 68 seats.

[Beafer]

A neighbour who overlooks the airport asked me who now owns the airport after the recent deal between the Mayor and a couple of local people. A 90/10 split I believe.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesworks-mayor-responds-dodgy-deals-22989843

How can people who are reported to be tory donors in the article above be handed 90% of the airport land?

Peel purchased 75% in 2003 for £500k. The Mayor then paid £40m of public money to buy it back from Peel.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/secret-documents-reveal-fresh-details-14601584

How much did the recent deal bring to the airport coffers? Was there any oversight into how the land was given to the local company?

What happens if they decide to sell their 90% when the Mayor moves on ?

The company has been mentioned by a tory MP regarding MANSTON airport in this BBC article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-29326000

[SWBKCB]

I suggest you go back and re-read the articles - there has been no deal to transfer airport land. Your first article references Teesworks, not the airport and the split you reference is for the operating company, not the land. The same guys are involved in the company set up to develop the southside of the airport - again no land involved.

[Beafer]

More on who owns what. Was the land given to the private company, or is it a free lease?

https://northeastbylines.co.uk/part-6-teesside-airport-a-crock-of-gold/

The company involved on the south side.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12543704

The directors. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12543704/officers

Filing history.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12543704/filing-history

Looking at the history, there is a mention of the charity commission. Has it been set up as a charity which some companies do> I gather it saves them paying business rates?

[highwideandugly]

Airport being hit hard now by KLM.
No flights from Friday early departure until Tuesday early departure, according to airport web site.

As I said looks disproportionate ..Newcastle still at 4 ish per day!

[GrahamK]

Airport being hit hard now by KLM.
No flights from Friday early departure until Tuesday early departure, according to airport web site.

As I said looks disproportionate ..Newcastle still at 4 ish per day!
NCL reduced to 3 flights a day. Like I suggested earlier, it'll be the smaller airports who will lose out, especially if KLM serve a nearby airport at a higher frequency anyway

[highwideandugly]

Interesting to see the Magic Rugby traffic using Teesside this weekend.

Wonder if Newcastle unable to handle due too busy!

Maybe that’s the way forward..pick up extras from our neighbours?

[P330]

Really sad news coming out of DSA this morning.

Adds credence to the suggestion MME would have been closed by now if Houchen hadn’t stepped in.

Early days I know, but in the real world of business, there (maybe) are 4 TUI aircraft needing a new base for next year and local(ish) punters needing flights. Does this present an opportunity for MME to capture more TUI traffic (even if it is just a one/two aircraft base)?

[N707ZS]

Come on then Mayor Ben. How about a nice offer to 2Excel to move to Teessides Southside, or is that just for industry.

[highwideandugly]

I was never good at economics….DSA 1.4 million passengers per annum plus massive air freight and ancillary aviation business..result …closure due unviable and loss making

MME 20000k passengers ..no freight ..plenty of ancillary business…..open and thriving….

Am I missing something🤔

[P330]

Let’s not forget MME is loss making and has been for a long time. The difference now is there is a plan with deep pockets to turn it around - it is this that is the difference.

Make no mistake, if MME doesn’t turn profitable and there is no sign of that changing, our fate will be the same.

Thankfully we’ve bought ourselves some time and are heading in the right direction.

[skyman771]

I was never good at economics….DSA 1.4 million passengers per annum plus massive air freight and ancillary aviation business..result …closure due unviable and loss making

MME 20000k passengers ..no freight ..plenty of ancillary business…..open and thriving….

Am I missing something🤔..........YEP !
I was never good at economics = MME 20000k, i.e. 20 million ?🤔

[P330]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/extra-20m-taxpayer-cash-ploughed-24490250

MME still heavily in the red and more taxpayers funds needed.

Note the comment about new airlines and popular holiday routes landing next year.

Still not fair to judge numbers from the Covid period so I suspect 22/23 will be the first real test for our financial direction of travel.

[N707ZS]

He does pick his moments. I see the sandals are being chucked from the back in the comments.

[SWBKCB]

Fuller comments in the Echo"We will see passenger numbers go through the roof relative to what we had, but the honest answer is I couldn't tell you whether we're going to get to half a million passengers in the next 12 to 24 months. That's largely because airlines are again struggling with staff and struggling to cope with the flights that they've got at the minute.

"We will get more flights over the next 12 months, that's definitely going to happen. But will it be as quick as we would like? Probably not, but that's the unwinding of Covid. It's frustrating, but it's where we are."

“We are working with businesses like Draken Europe, Willis Asset Management and FedEx to bring more good quality well-paid jobs to Teesside, which is exactly what will turn our airport’s fortunes around so it can be fully commercially viable and stand on its own two feet.”

FedEx don't usually get a mention beside the usual suspects.

[N707ZS]

No mention of the fire school with its good quality well paid jobs.

[SWBKCB]

And here's one for Beefer - some clarity around the names Corney and Musgrave would be a start....

Replying to critics calling for more financial clarity, he said: "The accounts are right here, so there isn't anything to hide and I've never understood that - what is it that you don't have? I get frustrated with the Teesworks stuff as well. All the accounts are published with all the details and yet people say there's this veil of secrecy. What are we not telling you? I don't understand. It's just an easy line that they don't have to defend."

[SWBKCB]

And in other news - more sweating of the assets

Solar panels on swathes of publicly owned land are part of a grand plan to set up Teesside’s own energy firm as prices soar. Documents for the Tees Valley Combined Authority (TVCA) show a £50m vision to create an energy firm by setting up panels on land next to airport runway - with the possibility of also using land at the South Tees Development Corporation (STDC).

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/vision-unveiled-teesside-energy-firm-24492452

[P330]

So, as this is a rumours site, any thoughts/insight into what the new airlines or routes could be?

Anyone have any thoughts?

My pure speculation starter would simply be more Ryanair non-based operations with at the more positive end a based Ryanair or a based TUI given the DSA news. Can’t see much more than that?

[AirportPlanner1]

There is potentially a decent Wizz operation up for grabs. To me EMA looks like too much overlap with their LTN and BHX catchments. LBA might be keen for the business too.

[SWBKCB]

There is potentially a decent Wizz operation up for grabs. To me EMA looks like too much overlap with their LTN and BHX catchments. LBA might be keen for the business too.

But does the Wizz market want to go to Teesside? They were in DSA for a reason.

[Gsm1]

Malaga must be high on airports wish list? Seems the obvious missing route 🤷‍♂️

[stewyb]

Can’t see 2 LCC operating from MME when MAN, LBA and NCL are close(ish) alternatives and the airports catchment will always be limited. Guess it depends on how deep the majors pockets are again but they won’t last whatever!

[rpmac]

]Can’t see 2 LCC operating from MME when MAN, LBA and NCL are close(ish) alternatives and the airports catchment will always be limited. Guess it depends on how deep the majors pockets are again but they won’t last whatever![/QUOTE]
I think Wizzair would dovetail into LBA very well, much like LIverpool, especially the evening flights when LBA is quieter, at least until the new Departures extension is completed.

[skyman771]

]Can’t see 2 LCC operating from MME when MAN, LBA and NCL are close(ish) alternatives and the airports catchment will always be limited. Guess it depends on how deep the majors pocketsI think Wizzair are again but they won’t last whatever!
I think Wizzair would dovetail into LBA very well, much like LIverpool, especially the evening flights when LBA is quieter, at least until the new Departures extension is completed.
There appears to be a basic assumption in much of the comment on this thread & it is that if airlines are incentivised one way or another to put aircraft / services into MME then there will be sufficient support within it's catchment area to support them.
I'm reading forecasts of 0.5M pax within 2 years, £1m within 5 years. These are "prima facie" modest volumes but where's the growth in the local economy to support these stats ?
Also I can't see any mileage on views that MME will be in a position to offer services/ facilities to attract pax from outside it's own catchment area for 3 years at least, whilst it's own catchment area shows little sign of growth & is the subject of intense competition offered from MAN/LBA/NCL
Th financial situation that MME finds itself in is near disastrous, the "bandwagon" kept going by "politician" Ben & a ludicrous amount of financial investment of public funds, that would be looked on from the business point of view as totally irresponsible lending.
As matters progress, then it would seem that a rapid & near exponential growth of the business park concept will be necessary to maintain what is essential financial support from the public coffers.

[Jamesair1]

A well reasoned argument skyman, I wonder if anyone has a similar argument in support of MME?

[SWBKCB]

The opposing argeument is this one:

https://www.northernfarmer.co.uk/news/20272997.darkest-day-brightest-future-success-area/

International investment is critical to the advancement of our area and I’ve always said that this doesn’t come on a bus, it comes through an airport terminal, and the SeAH investment is a prime example of this. Despite being nearly 5,500 miles away from South Korea, Teesside International Airport, and our global connectivity via Amsterdam, played a critical part in securing this £400million investment decision. Without our airport this project simply would have gone elsewhere. This is a fact.

So the arguement is an international airport is needed to attract the international investment needed to regenerate the region and provide the growth in the local economy. How do you pay for it? 'sweat the assetts' - fill the car parks, cafe's, bar's and spa's with holiday makers, develop the spare southside land, attract/retain anciliary businesses like Draken, Willis which bring skills and investment to the region.

Will it work? Who knows - doubt there needs to much more spent on the terminal in the near future but one of the busiest week of the years and the airport website shows 30 departures - the busiest day has 6. Yes Draken and Willis have expanded but what of the Fire School? What sort of investment will the Southside bring - highly skilled jobs or more warehousing?

[highwideandugly]

“Teesside is a joke, it cost tax payers £125 per passenger in subsidies when it was bought out, that has risen to £950 per passenger during 2020/21. The Mayor won't provide any info as to where our money has gone, just insists it will be profitable at some future point. The airport has given millions in contracts without tender, often to the Mayor's financial backers. The tax payer is liable for over £60m of loans taken out by the Mayor to prop the place up. Infrastructure round the airport is terrible, single carriageway roads, no buses & a mothballed railway siding. The real tragedy is the Mayor is spending all this money on an insolvent airport when the area has the highest level of child deprevation in the UK.

The brain dead of Teesside love the Mayor because they don't understand they are paying all the costs, have all the liability but will see none of the money. Private Eye run monthly stories on our Mayor, he's that dodgy. Your airport has the potential to be solvent but be wary of how it gets subsidised. Teesside has been insolvent for 25 years, it's a lost cause”


The above copied from a Facebook page re.the ongoing problems at Doncaster.

I have no idea how much of this factual or fiction..however it does ask questions?

[SWBKCB]

If you ignore the 'dodgy dealings' element (which we can't settle here either way), it's as I posted earlier. The money has been spent early to get the terminal up to an acceptable level, so its 'speculate to accumalate'. The roads are fine for the current level of traffic and a good few years yet. To justify investment in the railway you would need to have waaaay more passengers, no idea why there is no bus service.

The brain dead of Teesside love the Mayor because they don't understand they are paying all the costs, have all the liability but will see none of the money.

This bit is wrong - the pot of money being spent on the airport comes from national not local taxes. Should it have been spent on something else? Maybe - but the airport was a big part of the Mayors election campaign and he won the vote.

[highwideandugly]

I suppose future ..immediate development..if master plans come to fruition…will be apron and taxyway strengths ?

No idea where that money will come from though?

[Buster the Bear]

Is Teesside 24/7? Only 2Excel Aviation might be looking for a new home.......

[N707ZS]

They do late opps by arrangement. The ideal hangar has FedEx land cargo in it at the moment, for the right price the airport will kick anyone out.

[P330]

New £25m Jet Centre and Maintenance Facility

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/global-aviation-firm-teams-up-24512949

Most of the article is a rinse and repeat of old news but the headline says it all. Planning stage for now.

[Beafer]

New £25m Jet Centre and Maintenance Facility

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/global-aviation-firm-teams-up-24512949

Most of the article is a rinse and repeat of old news but the headline says it all. Planning stage for now.

It looks like the public aren't convinced who saved the airport after reading the "Comments" section ;)

[N707ZS]

More pictures and comments in the Echo.
Teesside Airport: 200 new jobs as Willis confirm £25m investment | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20281117.teesside-airport-200-new-jobs-willis-confirm-25m-investment/)

[SWBKCB]

New £25m Jet Centre and Maintenance Facility

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/global-aviation-firm-teams-up-24512949

Most of the article is a rinse and repeat of old news but the headline says it all. Planning stage for now.

Yes - a very odd statement, announcing that they are about to start planning? First time I've seen the phrase "Airport Village"? Also, Willis Aviation Services Limited seem to be a brand new company - do Willis do ground handling anywhere else?

[N707ZS]

At least they are going through the planning first this time.

[highwideandugly]

Ben managed to recycle some old news ..needed it after poor airport press recently?

Absolutely no doubt that planning permission will be approved.
Down side is…the terminal appears to be fully constricted for growth as buildings either side.
Not sure what the maximum theoretical capacity of the terminal will be in the future ?

[stewyb]

Ben managed to recycle some old news ..needed it after poor airport press recently?

Absolutely no doubt that planning permission will be approved.
Down side is…the terminal appears to be fully constricted for growth as buildings either side.
Not sure what the maximum theoretical capacity of the terminal will be in the future ?

Not to worry, mayor will just build a new terminal elsewhere with his pot of gold!

[skyman771]

As per my earlier post, then in noting the requirement for the development of ancillary services for MME site then the "Willis" connection is an interesting one.
My initial observation is that this is basically a 100% based multi $million operation where much of it's revenue arises from aircraft leasing & related services.
It's operations, financial strength are set out in very comprehensive format in their annual accounts filed in the U.S. They are easily accessible from internet, though to facilitate I have attached a link :-
https://www.willislease.com/pdf/annual-reports/Annual%20Report%202021.pdf
IMHO Willis are attracted to MME purely on the condition of "significant" financial support in the form of grants that would be available to any credible organisation submitting an application for grant funding based on the creation of 200+ jobs.
To carry out such a project in the UK then a new company has recently been incorporated "Willis Aviation Services Limited" run by directors of Willis Lease Finance company (above).
As to how much that these guys are proposing to invest into the project is unclear, though no doubt this particular issue will be window dressed by "Uncle Ben" in his crusade to move his MME development project forward.
The concept appears very attractive and relevant, it remains to be seen as to how viable it is & where the support for the future maintenance & operation of the airfield itself is to come from.

[N707ZS]

Skyman771 an un mentioned company called ADL has appeared at Teesside they seem to be involved in all ground work of buildings to final demolition of Willis aircraft. It never appears in the mayors comments in the media.

[SWBKCB]

Skyman771 an un mentioned company called ADL has appeared at Teesside they seem to be involved in all ground work of buildings to final demolition of Willis aircraft. It never appears in the mayors comments in the media.

And the directors of ADL have just created a new "ADL Homes" company.... :suspect:

[highwideandugly]

A small housing estate on adjoining land might just fit the bill and provide added income during down time periods of no flights🤔😀


On which subject..is there any sign of a winter timetable yet with only 3 ish months left to go?

[mmeteesside]

A small housing estate on adjoining land might just fit the bill and provide added income during down time periods of no flights🤔😀


On which subject..is there any sign of a winter timetable yet with only 3 ish months left to go?

Loganair’s winter schedule appears to be on sale at least

[N707ZS]

Any news on the fire school. There doesn't seem to be any signs of movement.

[highwideandugly]

Long way to go… I see Newcastle talking about 900k passengers through the doors of the six week school holiday period.

Rough work out for here is around 30k

As I said..it’s a long road ahead!

[Buster the Bear]

Housing estate on ex airport land...... I hope there is a covenant banning noise complaints?

[onion]

Long way to go… I see Newcastle talking about 900k passengers through the doors of the six week school holiday period.

Rough work out for here is around 30k

As I said..it’s a long road ahead!

Is this a NCL threas or an MME thread?

Please explain why passengers are the be all and end all?

Don't see you comparing Oxford, Lydd or Gloucestershire airports!

[oldart]

Is this a NCL threas or an MME thread?

Please explain why passengers are the be all and end all?

Don't see you comparing Oxford, Lydd or Gloucestershire airports!
Probably to show how much business has been lost to NCL from MME.

[onion]

Probably to show how much business has been lost to NCL from MME.
Don't you mean the other way round?

If you compare May 19 with May 22 MME has expanded and NCL has contracted, both in passengers and aircraft movements!

Let's gets some clear understanding here. Passengers are not the be all and end all of any comparison for an airport like MME, there is so much more. Direct comparisons are unfair and play into certain peoples agendas to belittle MME. Rather than comparing it with NCL actually do a comparison with it's own previous statistics. If you do that MME is expanding.

And before people moan about the debt, go and look at NCL's debt and ponder how that is going to be paid by the taxpayers!

[davidjohnson6]

There is indeed far more to an airport than just passengers. There is cargo/freight as well, as exemplified by Liege in Belgium which has pax numbers comparable to MME. How much freight passed through NCL so far this year, and how much through MME ?

[onion]

There is indeed far more to an airport than just passengers. There is cargo/freight as well, as exemplified by Liege in Belgium which has pax numbers comparable to MME. How much freight passed through NCL so far this year, and how much through MME ?

Playing that game how many Draken movements at NCL are there?

As I said MME is moving forward NCL has actually gone back!

Care to explain that situation?

[highwideandugly]

Strange argument🤔

I was merely pointing out the differential in passenger output..and that the mayor has a long road ahead to improve..in his words the “connectivity” of the airport!

[SWBKCB]

As I said MME is moving forward NCL has actually gone back!

If you want to play games, NCL is an established international airport still recovering from Covid like the rest of the airport sector - look at CAA stats for evidence.

MME is an airport being developed from a very low base, so any small increase in flights has a massive impact on the stats. And if we are talking numbers, MME has fewer airline departures this week than the same week last year - another meaningless stat.

Your basic point though is right, pax number are not the be all and end all - one of the the aims is to be a Business Park with a runway in the middle to attract aviation related business and well-paid, skilled jobs - like Draken and like Willis.

[onion]

If you want to play games, NCL is an established international airport still recovering from Covid like the rest of the airport sector - look at CAA stats for evidence.

MME is an airport being developed from a very low base, so any small increase in flights has a massive impact on the stats. And if we are talking numbers, MME has fewer airline departures this week than the same week last year - another meaningless stat.

I'm not playing any game. Lets compare like with like then in your eyes, an 'unestablished international airport' by your definition.

If you compare MME with HUY (which I'd rather not) HUY was pushing more flights and more pax in May 2019 than MME but that position has reversed.

I didn't start the meaningless stats argument. I'm literally pointing out that people are using meaningless stats for their own moaning agenda against an airport that is moving forward.

[highwideandugly]

Yeh..but my dad’s bigger than your dad!😀

Onion , you are quite right, the airport is putting other more established airports in the area to shame with the recent proposed development announcements..inc. the Freeport et al.

[davidjohnson6]

If a piece of land with a runway has neither passenger or cargo transport activity... would an ordinary person on the street really consider it as an airport... or is it really an industrial site with some very unusual usage of land ?

My point is that the further away MME gets from the ordinary commercial transport of people and goods... the further it gets from what non-aviation people associate with an airport, and the consequent implications for public support from local people.

If it ends up hosting thousands of high skill jobs, that's great and it will be recognised by the local populace... but if it becomes something closer to just a noisy factory paying minimum wage, then local people may start to wonder how the runway facility is useful to them and why it should consume tax subsidies which could be used for other purposes in the region

[SWBKCB]

If a piece of land with a runway has neither passenger or cargo transport activity... would an ordinary person on the street really consider it as an airport... or is it really an industrial site with some very unusual usage of land ?

My point is that the further away MME gets from the ordinary commercial transport of people and goods... the further it gets from what non-aviation people associate with an airport, and the consequent implications for public support from local people.

If it ends up hosting thousands of high skill jobs, that's great and it will be recognised by the local populace... but if it becomes something closer to just a noisy factory paying minimum wage, then local people may start to wonder how the runway facility is useful to them and why it should consume tax subsidies which could be used for other purposes in the region

Where's this idea of no passenger activity come from? The Mayor has made it very clear from the outset of his campaign that the airport is about global connectivity and attracting inward investment - see his quote in my post 1289 above.

But to quote the recent comments coming out of the airport it's about "sweating the assetts" - using everything that is available, so not just relying on pax through the terminal - the point made by Onion above. So a business park with a runway in the middle is 'one of the aims' (as I said above), but this is additional to a bustling terminal

Have they got everything right? no. Are there questions about the way somethings have been done? yes. But the general direction of travel is positive.

[tigertanaka]

June CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 20,775

19% up on last month
122% up on June 2021
38% on June 2019 (pre covid)
Best month for passenger traffic since October 2010.


Individual routes:

Aberdeen: 2,098 (up 17% v May but down 16% v June 2021)
Belfast City: 733 (down 5% v May and down 11% v June 2021)
Jersey: 532 (up 158% v May and up 6% v June 2021)
Newquay: 209 (up 53% v May but down 42% v June 2021)
Alicante: 2,777 (down 4% v May and up 370% v June 2021)
Amsterdam: 5.139 (up 37% v May, only 50 pax in June 2021)
Burgas: 802 (up 237% v May, no flights in June 2021)
Corfu: 1,130 (no flights in May or in June 2021)
Dublin: 228 (up 338% v May, no flights in June 2021)
Faro: 2,886 (up 23% v May, no flights in June 2021)
Palma: 4,049 (up 15% v May, only 279 pax in June 2021)

Plus charter to Lourdes (188).

Aberdeen is doing really well with average loads of 23.8 and this is the best single operator month on the route since March 2016. Belfast was down a bit but this is more down to fewer rotations than anything else. 26 passengers on the Newquay flight is probably as high as it is going to go given that there is only 1 flight a week which rules out anyone who wants to go for a long weekend break. Jersey is

Amsterdam loads of 61.4 would still have been decent in pre-covid times good but the schedule is still only around 50% of what is was in 2019. Bourgas was poor at 802 passengers, especially as I reckon there were 12 rotations in June and speculation is that holidaymakers concerned about travel to the area given the proximity to the situation in Ukraine. Overall passengers on Alicante were down sightly due to fewer rotations but loads on that route(174), Corfu (141), Faro (160) and Palma (160) are all the best since Ryanair returned to Teesside. TUI appear to have done better than Ryanair on Palma with loads of 186 which implies only 3 spare seats on every flight and must be encouraging for next year.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Apologies, spotter geek question. Is the Blue Islands ATR still on site or has it been scrapped yet?

[SWBKCB]

According to the Teesside Movements website it is in Hangar 2

Teesside Airport Movements (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/Residents.htm)

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Ah shame, flew on it and wanted a pic, thanks!

[N707ZS]

Apologies, spotter geek question. Is the Blue Islands ATR still on site or has it been scrapped yet?
If you are lucky the landside door on hangar 2 is open during working hours, so it should be visible.

[P330]

June CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 20,775

19% up on last month
122% up on June 2021
38% on June 2019 (pre covid)
Best month for passenger traffic since October 2010.


Individual routes:

Aberdeen: 2,098 (up 17% v May but down 16% v June 2021)
Belfast City: 733 (down 5% v May and down 11% v June 2021)
Jersey: 532 (up 158% v May and up 6% v June 2021)
Newquay: 209 (up 53% v May but down 42% v June 2021)
Alicante: 2,777 (down 4% v May and up 370% v June 2021)
Amsterdam: 5.139 (up 37% v May, only 50 pax in June 2021)
Burgas: 802 (up 237% v May, no flights in June 2021)
Corfu: 1,130 (no flights in May or in June 2021)
Dublin: 228 (up 338% v May, no flights in June 2021)
Faro: 2,886 (up 23% v May, no flights in June 2021)
Palma: 4,049 (up 15% v May, only 279 pax in June 2021)

Plus charter to Lourdes (188).

Aberdeen is doing really well with average loads of 23.8 and this is the best single operator month on the route since March 2016. Belfast was down a bit but this is more down to fewer rotations than anything else. 26 passengers on the Newquay flight is probably as high as it is going to go given that there is only 1 flight a week which rules out anyone who wants to go for a long weekend break. Jersey is

Amsterdam loads of 61.4 would still have been decent in pre-covid times good but the schedule is still only around 50% of what is was in 2019. Bourgas was poor at 802 passengers, especially as I reckon there were 12 rotations in June and speculation is that holidaymakers concerned about travel to the area given the proximity to the situation in Ukraine. Overall passengers on Alicante were down sightly due to fewer rotations but loads on that route(174), Corfu (141), Faro (160) and Palma (160) are all the best since Ryanair returned to Teesside. TUI appear to have done better than Ryanair on Palma with loads of 186 which implies only 3 spare seats on every flight and must be encouraging for next year.

Some excellent loads on the sun routes. Let’s hope Turkey arrives as planned next year and more routes added. Bulgaria a concern though.

[Cautious Optimist]

Bulgaria is frustrating but at least if we were to lose it we can pinpoint an external factor that's completely out of our control as the reason (if I was a betting man I'd go with a reduced 1x weekly limited series between late July - end of August for next year)

[SWBKCB]

Bulgaria is frustrating but at least if we were to lose it we can pinpoint an external factor that's completely out of our control as the reason

Assuming that external factor has had a similar impact elsewhere?

[N707ZS]

If Bulgaria was suffering they would have doubled it up with another location. Recently observed a Doncaster to Humberside pick up.
It has recently been mention the conflict in Ukraine has affected bucking's, but how many would look at the surrounding location before booking when dealing with bucket, beer and spade holiday's.

[N707ZS]

A warning to visitors in cars. From the 15th of August the airport has declared war on motorist with permits being required to park on airport land. If you don't go into the carpark. It is presumed a jobsworth is to be employed to enforce this.

[horatio_b]

My one and only visit to Teesside was back in 2010 during which I was shouted at by a jobsworth whilst taking a photo, even though I was in the car park at the time. I swore then that I would never return. This shows that the culture at Teeside has not changed and just reinforces my decision.

[Gsm1]

A warning to visitors in cars. From the 15th of August the airport has declared war on motorist with permits being required to park on airport land. If you don't go into the carpark. It is presumed a jobsworth is to be employed to enforce this.
I still don’t think £2.50 is a lot compared to other airports, & you get it back if you use the cafe/sky bar we all want a successful airport & if my £2,50 keeps it going then fine by me !

[Atlantic Explorer]

My one and only visit to Teesside was back in 2010 during which I was shouted at by a jobsworth whilst taking a photo, even though I was in the car park at the time. I swore then that I would never return. This shows that the culture at Teeside has not changed and just reinforces my decision.

Yep, MME had its fair share of jobsworths back in the day. There were also several security staff who used to be very rude and standoffish to flight crew. No idea why? Never had that problem anywhere else.

[SWBKCB]

My one and only visit to Teesside was back in 2010 during which I was shouted at by a jobsworth whilst taking a photo, even though I was in the car park at the time. I swore then that I would never return. This shows that the culture at Teeside has not changed and just reinforces my decision.

There has been extensive 'regime change' at MME since 2010, and reports of pax through the terminal have been nothing but positive this summer.

From what I've heard the new parking regime seems to be aimed at the 'backwater' areas of the airport and not just the terminal and the approach roads. And whats all the talk of jobsworths being used to monitor the new parking restrictions , surely these will be 'good-quality, well-paid jobs for local people'? Hopefully all the many coloured parking signs were produced locally as well, so another boost to the local economy.

[N707ZS]

The new signs state "Private land" but we thought it was a publicly owned airport. If you own a flying club or GA aircraft its presumed you now will need a permit for every visitor.

[N707ZS]

A more important subject. I happened to make a rare visit to Stockton town centre and noticed the prominent Dawson and Sanderson's travel agents didn't have a single flight from Teesside and if you go to they're website Teesside doesn't exist!

[oldart]

A more important subject. I happened to make a rare visit to Stockton town centre and noticed the prominent Dawson and Sanderson's travel agents didn't have a single flight from Teesside and if you go to they're website Teesside doesn't exist!
The above travel agent has always tried to sell flights from Newcastle rather than Teesside, maybe an incentive to do so.

[SWBKCB]

The above travel agent has always tried to sell flights from Newcastle rather than Teesside, maybe an incentive to do so.

Not looked beyond the first page of the website, but the only departure airports offered are those used by Jet2. Which tour operators apart from TUI and Balkan are available from Teesside? Does anybody use Ryanair?

[Gsm1]

Just got back from Belfast, & chatting to a couple from Northallerton who were flying into Leeds as they didn’t know Teesside had a link! The advertising of these routes is a disgrace!

[MARKEYD]

To be fair no airline advertises much about routes on blazing big bill boards or tv like they did many years ago

Customers have a bit of responsibility to see where they can go from their local airport as well by checking the website etc

[The Flying Stool]

What was the minor runway incident yesterday?

[ZULUBOY]

What was the minor runway incident yesterday?

Somebody trying to avoid the "war on the motorist" parking charge parked up on the runway

[highwideandugly]

An aircraft landed?….

Ok sorry!😀

[SWBKCB]

The new signs state "Private land" but we thought it was a publicly owned airport. If you own a flying club or GA aircraft its presumed you now will need a permit for every visitor.Drivers have been warned against parking on roads near Teesside Airport or face being slapped with a hefty parking charge notice. Signs warning drivers against stopping, even for a brief period, on the airport's private estate have gone up in recent days. Roads include the industrial area near Draken and the roads leading towards Teesside Airport Railway Station. Signs warn drivers CCTV and parking enforcement is in operation and that drivers could be faced with a £100 charge, reduced to £70 if paid within 28 days.

A spokesperson said: “As we ramp up our operations, increase passenger numbers and create more new jobs on the airport site, we need to ensure only authorised vehicles are entering the private airport estate. This is in line with all other international airports and is an important counter-terrorism measure. To be clear, this will not affect any passengers using the airport terminal, who can continue to access the terminal using the drop-off and pick-up car parks it is just the private airport estate. We are working with all companies on site to ensure permits for their staff are given out ahead of any enforcement, so they are not adversely affected by this important security measure."

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20609396.teesside-airport-explains-100-private-parking-signs-gone/

[horatio_b]

Bourenmouth seem to manage their large industrial estate without the need for passes. They just have a security gate at the entrance. This looks more like a money making scheme. Charge a fee to the enforcement company and take a cut of the penalty fines. No cost to them.

[Beafer]

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20609396.teesside-airport-explains-100-private-parking-signs-gone/

Looks like they are trying to recoup the air show parking fiasco money! Target the motorist.

I wonder if everyone received an airshow refund?

I was told the airport don't own the industrial estate land NORTH SIDE OF THE Small fence, opposite Hangar 1 and 2.

Peel did buy the old water tower site, but believe the roads are council owned?

[P330]

I did receive an Airshow refund.

Though if I am being picky, I had to send my request recorded delivery and put in a stamped self addressed envelope so the manually written cheque would land back on my doormat with minimal fuss (for Skylive).

But it worked; it just cost me about £4 in postage to get £35 back.

[ted320]

Just cuirous if there is still an airline catering buisness based at MME? I remember in the past there was an outfit called ICS which had a base in one of the hangers. If not, do airlines like TUI have to bring in extra catering on the W paterns?

[N707ZS]

No catering at Teesside ICS long gone. What happens now I don't know, Tui used to send catering trucks down from Newcastle.

[N707ZS]

I was told the airport don't own the industrial estate land NORTH SIDE OF THE Small fence, opposite Hangar 1 and 2.

Peel did buy the old water tower site, but believe the roads are council owned?

That area of land is a mystery, you say Peel bought it but from who. You would have thought the whole airport was one site so when was the land sold off that had the water tower and the hospital in the first place.

[SWBKCB]

Some interesting commentsThe airport was given £10m extra last year after a tough 2020/21 hit by covid losses. A presentation to the scrutiny committee offered up the “benefit cost ratio” – a calculation used by the government to measure the value for money of a project – of multiple projects. A value higher than one is deemed to bring a net benefit. The report showed Stockton High Street’s regeneration measured 2.8, the Boho Digital City vision clocked 2.7, and Teesside Airport measured 7.9.
TVCA chief executive Julie Gilhespie said inward investment was important to the region’s economy – with the area the fastest growing in the UK for foreign direct investment. She told the committee how international connectivity via Schiphol was key to development and “unlocking investment”.A refreshed airport business plan forecasts the airport will hit profit during 2024/25. It will be then that loan money invested in buying and maintaining the airport would be paid back to the Tees Valley Combined Authority (TVCA) over decades. Ms Gilhespie said they were “refocussing” the business on commercial operations. The top officer said: “However much people want leisure flights – and we all want leisure flights – they don’t generate a lot of profit.
But KLM operated successfully under Peel - if global connectivity via AMS was the aim, how much of the terminal investment was needed?


Ms Gilhespie said they were in a number of talks with different cargo handlers and expected “significant revenue” in the next 12 months.


https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20637589.teesside-airport-should-not-asking-money-20m-boost/

[onion]

Some interesting comments

But KLM operated successfully under Peel - if global connectivity via AMS was the aim, how much of the terminal investment was needed?


Troll alert!

Seriously are you suggesting that under Peel the airport and region would be better off? Peel who wanted to close the place and would certainly had under COVID.

Global connectivity is a major aim it not the only as the quotes you have extracted mention.

Terminal investment during COVID was smart and actually helped business as they had work on and relied less on direct handouts from both central and local government.
It was always going to be a chicken and egg situation.

[SWBKCB]

No - that's not what I'm saying. The investment in the terminal wasn't to retain KLM, but to attract leisure orientated airlines - which they then say are difficult to make money out of (who knew?).

“However much people want leisure flights – and we all want leisure flights – they don’t generate a lot of profit."“These are the things which underpin profitability in the next three years. Leisure flights have grown considerably – we do expect more growth next year and into 2024. But as I say, it’s important to be realistic about the level of profitability that they bring. An airport needs to have other revenue to support it.”

So the early focus of spending was on improving the terminal? Interesting there is no mention of the Business Park or the fire school in the talk of “refocussing” the business on commercial operations.

[Rutan16]

No - that's not what I'm saying. The investment in the terminal wasn't to retain KLM, but to attract leisure orientated airlines - which they then say are difficult to make money out of (who knew?).



So the early focus of spending was on improving the terminal? Interesting there is no mention of the Business Park or the fire school in the talk of

Leisure travel requires a shopping mall experience rents and commission payments from the usual brands for the operator to recover sufficient margin these days just as MAG and GIP group businesses

[davidjohnson6]

KLM to operate 42 round trips in September and 37 round trips in October.
2 months ago, KLM were planning 78 and 73 round trips respectively
Demand seems to be structurally below the 2019 level without any culpable temporary factor

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220815-klsep22eu

[P330]

KLM to operate 42 round trips in September and 37 round trips in October.
2 months ago, KLM were planning 78 and 73 round trips respectively
Demand seems to be structurally below the 2019 level without any culpable temporary factor

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220815-klsep22eu

And that is why, despite being a platinum for life frequent flier and living on Teesside, I will not book KLM from MME until they start to fly a greater proportion of what they sell 3 months out. Whether business or pleasure, it is a huge inconvenience getting rebooked to a less convenient time or through a different airport.

As has been the case for 2 and a half years now, in just under 3 months time, KLM will be back to 3 x flights a day from MME and are actively selling those flights.

Until they start routinely flying those 3 sectors, I reluctantly will use Newcastle.

[Airbanda]

KLM to operate 42 round trips in September and 37 round trips in October.
2 months ago, KLM were planning 78 and 73 round trips respectively
Demand seems to be structurally below the 2019 level without any culpable temporary factor

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220815-klsep22eu

Is this load factors or fact that Schipol apparently has similar issues to LHR in terms of ability to move pax/baggage through terminals?

[N707ZS]

Morning flights have been on the ERJ 190 instead of the 175 so capacity increase there.

[SWBKCB]

Is this load factors or fact that Schipol apparently has similar issues to LHR in terms of ability to move pax/baggage through terminals?

The link provided by DJ6 shows decreases across a whole range of European destinations, so clearly AMS issues are having an impact. However, the Teesside reductions are the second biggest on the list and I would imagine that KLM know where they make their money.

[SKOJB]

Morning flights have been on the ERJ 190 instead of the 175 so capacity increase there.

Hardly with another 12 seats uplift!

[P330]

The link provided by DJ6 shows decreases across a whole range of European destinations, so clearly AMS issues are having an impact. However, the Teesside reductions are the second biggest on the list and I would imagine that KLM know where they make their money.

I think this is a KLM and an Amsterdam
issue. Both are suffering and the way you attack it is by reducing schedules where there is least impact- that could imply our loads are not as impressive as other airports, or it could mean that with 3 other KLM options within 90 minutes of here, it’s easier to reaccommodate MME customers.

Whatever the cause or the logic though, all of this is damaging confidence and negatively affecting loads.

[highwideandugly]

P330 good observation.

Whatever the reasons..it does little to support the mayors “worldwide” connectivity for business in the Tees Valley.

My interest shifts to Loganair.Are the loads to Dublin and Belfast sustainable and making a profit? Subsidies will be coming to an end , I would suspect within the original contract timeframe..I know it comes down to yields,but still not earth shattering figures.

Oh well. Alicante it is!

[highwideandugly]

Earlier post showed KLM cutting frequency during September and October.. down to almost one per day.

The rest of this month(August) not mentioned, but appears similar reductions..just one per day?

Local airports don’t seem to be affected anywhere near as much?

Views from the panel please ?

[N707ZS]

An alternative view of Teesside airport skimming the surface.
Pigs Might Fly. An Update for Visitors to Teesside Airport. Part 2 (teesvalleymonitor.com) (https://www.teesvalleymonitor.com/pigs-might-fly-an-update-for-visitors-to-teesside-airport-part-2)

[highwideandugly]

Ouch ! again.

To be fair nothing in there that is news to us all..however it brings it all together in one read.

[SWBKCB]

The bit about ATC looks unfair - sure that would have been NOTAM's rather than it 'just happened' as the article implies - and plenty of other places have had similar issues (Gatwick yesterday!)

The implication that Stobart were responsible for the expansion and it's all gone pearshaped since they left is also an interpretation I've not come across before...

I've still not heard a reasonable explanation of how Stobart got involved, what they did, and why they left

And yes, the rest of it is familar

[N707ZS]

Rumours and news.

[SKOJB]

Article just about sums it up, huge amounts of money spent on their commercial pax offering for 5-6 departures a day!

[highwideandugly]

See Loganair switching based aircraft to an Emb135 from the 145.Not sure if permanent or not..but a decrease in capacity non the less.

Yes the ATC bit in the article is unfair as they are just following the rules as laid down.nothing to do with the airport other than maybe not enough staff?

Newcastle also suffering from this.

[P330]

Look; there maybe some shady politics here but the result is we have a far better position today than 3-4 years ago.

I will make my judgement in a years time. If in one year we have had no new routes announced with current offerings reduced, alongside no major new non-PAX activity, then I won’t be happy.

But regardless of how we got here, we have a better facility with more routes than in the past with a clear opportunity for more. Houchen said recently new announcements are coming and the sad news at DSA does present an increase in opportunities here.

All of the above ignores the value for money piece and just focusses on outcomes.

[Gsm1]

Totally agree, let’s give it a year to see where we stand post covid. Far to many people on here are happy to run our airport down!

[N707ZS]

I might have spied my first parking permit today but no sign of the parking warden.

[mmeteesside]

Passenger figures for July look pretty good…

Total Pax - 21632

Loganair routes
Aberdeen - 2101 (average 25)
Belfast - 780 (average 19.5)
Dublin - 414 (average 20)
Newquay - 304 (average 30)

Ryanair routes
Alicante - 3161 (average 176)
Corfu - 1633 (average 163)
Faro - 3019 (average 168)
Palma - 4390 (average 169) - I am told TUI is completely sold out all summer so FR loads likely around 150-155

Others
Amsterdam - 3621
Bourgas - 1130 - seems to be performing poorly from lots of airports this summer!? Averages about 63 per flight!
Jersey - 648

Various other one off sports and military charters make up the rest.

[Gsm1]

Loads to Bulgaria are down from every airport, could be due to its proximity to Ukrainian? Other routes look quite good 👍🏻

[JKKne]

Loads to Bulgaria are down from every airport, could be due to its proximity to Ukrainian? Other routes look quite good 👍🏻

it’s not really that close, I think it’s more down to Bulgaria falling out of fashion as a destination. Similar to how the Costa Brava did (which is now having a renaissance.

[SWBKCB]

Thought it opened at the end of last year. Can anybody confirm that it is also run by Willis?

The airport has officially opened its doors to its new £2.5m cargo handling facility. This new investment comes as Teesside Airport turns its focus to its land and property assets, including its £200m Southside Business Park development, to diversify its revenue streams. The 21,000sq ft hangar provides security screening technology, as well as handling, freight-forwarding, customs clearage and storage. The facility can also be used for specialised charter flights for both air and road freight.

As part of the development, the airport now has secured Regulated Agent status from the Civil Aviation Authority, allowing it to handle secure cargo at its site. The facility has appointed a Head of Cargo with 25 years of airport experience alongside security staff and when fully up and running, it is expected to create up to 30 jobs.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/inside-new-cargo-handling-facility-24874030

[N707ZS]

Photo shows Willis staff by the look of the logos.

[N707ZS]

Another release by the Northern Echo. Land close the the runway not fit for development. Solar farm reminds me of the objects they used against the remote control 720 in the fire test years ago.
Solar farm at Teesside Airport would help tackle cost of living crisis | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20278577.solar-farm-teesside-airport-help-tackle-cost-living-crisis/)

[Beafer]

More on the press photo's and the cargo building.

https://www.teesvalleymonitor.com/the-ostrich-has-landed-an-update-for-visitors-to-teesside-airport

[Cautious Optimist]

Newquay not returning for S23, seems Loganair may have fallen out with Newquay management over incentives favouring Flybe. Another route that should be perfectly viable lost.

Credit SeanM on Twitter

[P330]

And that is why, despite being a platinum for life frequent flier and living on Teesside, I will not book KLM from MME until they start to fly a greater proportion of what they sell 3 months out. Whether business or pleasure, it is a huge inconvenience getting rebooked to a less convenient time or through a different airport.

As has been the case for 2 and a half years now, in just under 3 months time, KLM will be back to 3 x flights a day from MME and are actively selling those flights.

Until they start routinely flying those 3 sectors, I reluctantly will use Newcastle.

And so, with less than 2 months to go, the planned 3 rotations a day have been pulled again. I feel sorry for anyone looking at schedules 3 months out and actually booking something.

Instead now we go to 2 x daily schedule on weekdays with the night stop (better) and the mid morning rotation from the winter timetable in late October.

For what it’s worth, 3 rotation returns now in December.

[N707ZS]

Newquay not returning for S23, seems Loganair may have fallen out with Newquay management over incentives favouring Flybe. Another route that should be perfectly viable lost.

Credit SeanM on Twitter
So hopefully someone at Teesside is on the phone to Newquay and Flybe, or perhaps not as this is Teesside.

[SWBKCB]

Another route that should be perfectly viable lost.

The only NQY route that LM have dropped already for next summer - the other routes have been dropped for Winter only, so their view on the routes viability seems to differ...

[Cautious Optimist]

The other routes probably get the advertising they need

[N707ZS]

Obviously where Ben should spend some of his £20 million.

[Gsm1]

I wasn’t aware Loganair did any advertising from Teesside!

[SWBKCB]

The other routes probably get the advertising they need

...is the other comment that always gets trotted out without any supporting evidence.

Lets not forget that the airport gets considerable coverage on social media and in the local press.

[OzzyOzBorn]

The other routes probably get the advertising they need

A couple of decades ago, advertising of new scheduled routes was essential. This often involved marketing reps touring local high-street travel agencies / newspaper offices to offer sales deals and familiarisation trips. Not any more. Buying habits have changed completely with the advent of aggregator search websites such as Skyscanner and Kayak facilitating direct online booking by the customer. Even Google has a flights search box. So customers now go to these websites, input departure and destination airport (with the option to include other nearby airports in the search) and up come all the flight options with timings, prices and multiple suppliers listed and bookable. It no longer matters if you've never heard of an airline such as Corendon or Vueling; their services will appear in the search anyway. And it doesn't matter if you're unsure whether a scheduled service operates between [name] and [name]; the search websites will tell you if there is one, and list nearby alternatives if there isn't. Airline executives are well aware of this market shift and put more effort into raising brand awareness than promoting individual city-pairs now. A possible exception would be for promotion of a major new base.

Customers will still visit the websites of the best-known carriers such as Ryanair, EasyJet and Jet2 directly - hence why companies such as these promote the brand so heavily. But increasingly, customers are learning that the aggregator sites will display all options on a route, not just the offerings of one airline.

BTW, I am currently in Manchester. I can't recall seeing any advertising for MAN-NQY by Loganair. But that doesn't matter. Customers find the flights via searching the city-pair on Google or an aggregator site such as those outlined above.

[Cautious Optimist]

Whilst Ozzy OzBorn is not wrong, low awareness is unquestionably a significant issue, it gets raised too often and I personally have invested many hours in researching historic routes and demographics etc to know when a route should be doing better than it is. When Eastern ran the route pre-pandemic it did fine, but then it was better days/frequency on a more suitable aircraft so there is the problem, although not a big enough problem that they shouldn't be filling a weekly 50 seater when bmibaby were filling a 737 (even factoring in the fare difference)

[YVRscot]

A couple of decades ago, advertising of new scheduled routes was essential. This often involved marketing reps touring local high-street travel agencies / newspaper offices to offer sales deals and familiarisation trips. Not any more. Buying habits have changed completely with the advent of aggregator search websites such as Skyscanner and Kayak facilitating direct online booking by the customer. Even Google has a flights search box. So customers now go to these websites, input departure and destination airport (with the option to include other nearby airports in the search) and up come all the flight options with timings, prices and multiple suppliers listed and bookable. It no longer matters if you've never heard of an airline such as Corendon or Vueling; their services will appear in the search anyway. And it doesn't matter if you're unsure whether a scheduled service operates between [name] and [name]; the search websites will tell you if there is one, and list nearby alternatives if there isn't. Airline executives are well aware of this market shift and put more effort into raising brand awareness than promoting individual city-pairs now. A possible exception would be for promotion of a major new base.

Customers will still visit the websites of the best-known carriers such as Ryanair, EasyJet and Jet2 directly - hence why companies such as these promote the brand so heavily. But increasingly, customers are learning that the aggregator sites will display all options on a route, not just the offerings of one airline.

BTW, I am currently in Manchester. I can't recall seeing any advertising for MAN-NQY by Loganair. But that doesn't matter. Customers find the flights via searching the city-pair on Google or an aggregator site such as those outlined above.

I do agree that increasingly consolidator travel websites show all (most) of the options if you know what you are looking for but 20 years ago I learned a lot about European geography by reading those bold Ryanair ads offering 40-50 destinations "from" a pound each way. Those ads were often on the London Underground and more than once I took myself off to such exotic destinations as Rodez, Haugesund, Trapani, Alghero or Aarhus. Of course it often cost me much more than one pound. My point is that I only knew to look for those destinations because I had been made aware that the routes existed.

So tube posters will not reach everyone - and neither does social media. But targeted social media ads can reach 10s of thousands of likely travellers very cheaply. I am often surprised that airlines don't invest a few hundred pounds to boost route launches - it would honestly do more good than cake and fizzy wine at the gate for the first departure. You only need to be made aware of a route once or twice for it to stick in your mind.

Here in Canada we have had several LCC start-ups in recent months. They all push the same brand message that they are "cheap" but fail to promote their individual routes. I flew back from Palm Springs to YVR in January (peak season) on a new-smelling 737Max with only 12 other passengers. I think that Ryanair does route management rather differently.

[Beafer]

News in the Gazette and Echo today.
Public comments under the news mention the mayor may be joining the Lords. Easy money for some.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/lost-found-flights-gone-those-24918270

[oldart]

Regarding advertising, it's not all that long ago that Jet2 plastered the side of Teesside buses with their new routes from Leeds/Bradford. I know that the internet is now the main source of new flight routes, but surely an advert, on say the side of a bus, is more in the face of the public.

[OzzyOzBorn]

If it is promoting a large base representing massive investment, yes. If it is promoting a niche domestic route then it is almost certainly not cost-effective. Especially if the bus sticks to one locality.

[SWBKCB]

Workers at Teesside Airport could be going on strike later this year in a row over pay during the "crushing cost of living crisis", a union has said. Dozens of GMB members working as air traffic controllers and fire fighters at the airport have today begun voting on industrial action. The union says the workers have turned down a pay offer which amounts to a real terms pay cut. They also claimed airport bosses have "not engaged" since the offer was rejected and workers have not recieved a pay rise for years - with the gap in pay widening for airport staff.

But airport officials said they had "engaged positively over many months" with the union, and a different union has accepted the pay offer put forward. The ballot closes on September 28, with any industrial action likely to take place in October.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/21803829.teesside-airport-workers-strike-next-month-pay-row/

[highwideandugly]

Not positive news re strike action?

Has anyone come up with an airport winter timetable yet for 2022/2023?

Apparently AMS has lifted all Covid restrictions..so better news there!

[AirportPlanner1]

Apparently AMS has lifted all Covid restrictions..so better news there!

Actually they have not. You are still required to submit proof of vaccine and complete a form prior to travel.

[SWBKCB]

and further reduction in movements has also been announced at AMS, which on recent form is unlikely to be good news for MME

[N707ZS]

Looking like a bleak winter. Passed through last Friday afternoon and the only activity was two guys working on the new Draken hangar whilst their mates fooled with a cherry picker.

[highwideandugly]

Seems to be a reduction in Belfast also..been regular cancellations recently.

Expect The winter Timetable to be not too manic!

[highwideandugly]

Not much news at mo.
Found this while “surfing”.

Blurb from the Willis Brochures..

Located in NE England, our facility at Teesside International Airport provides an ideal location for aircraft disassembly/teardown, storage, and maintenance. The facility features a 45,000 square foot hangar that can accommodate up to three narrowbody aircraft (up to B757 wingspan), ample outdoor storage and a runway capable of accepting A380s. The UK facility is ideal for short-term narrowbody storage and aircraft which may become “end-of-life”. Teesside is easily accessible to the UK with daily international routes via Amsterdam and London.
Our facility currently has immediate space available and line maintenance approval.

Also states Teesside has storage facilities for up to 50 narrow and wide body aircraft..

Sounds a pretty impressive operation! But in need of updating?

[N707ZS]

No new news just old, recycled news. Fire school is still operating any news on that.

If Doncaster closes does Teesside have the management skills to steal any of the scraps, on current results it looks like zero.

[P330]

Judging by the TUI announcement covered on the EMA thread, it doesn’t look like TUI will be offering anything new from MME next year to compensate for the DSA closure.

[RA85684]

I’d be very, very disappointed if team MME/TVCA weren’t pulling out all the stops to try and acquire 2excel and the 727’s from DSA.

I suppose time will tell

[highwideandugly]

Winter timetable just appeared on the great DTV movements web page.

Not sure what to make of it to be honest.

Quiet is an understatement!

[Buster the Bear]

I’d be very, very disappointed if team MME/TVCA weren’t pulling out all the stops to try and acquire 2excel and the 727’s from DSA.

I suppose time will tell

Hangarage is the key and the T tail of the 727 can pose problems for some constructions. Mind you, it just fitted inside the ex RAF then Vulcan hangar at Donny.

[Asturias56]

Doncaster closing will probably mean a few more pax for Teesside but hard to see it would be enough to add a lot of movements - more better load factors I suspect.

[mmeman]

Hopefully the recent good loads on the flights operating will convince airlines to add more routes or frequencies - I think Alicante has been sold out all September, and the TUI flights are fully booked for the rest of the season. Faro with Ryanair has been sold out a couple of times this month and Palma with Ryanair was pretty full on each flight.

[aapeters]

Cant see at all DSA closing have any effect on Teesside.. Teesside winter timetable is bleak. operates complete different destinations to what DSA does, might pick up 1 or 2 bookings down to ALC that would be about it.

[P330]

Cant see at all DSA closing have any effect on Teesside.. Teesside winter timetable is bleak. operates complete different destinations to what DSA does, might pick up 1 or 2 bookings down to ALC that would be about it.

And so it seems to be the case. Wizz have gone to LBA and TUI have scattered. Poor show from MME.

[Sharklet_321]

What other business does MME do to keep it going? How is it managing yet DSA can't ? I don't get it. HUY even quieter but is still open.

[aapeters]

Because MME is funded by the nayor.. be easier to shut the place down. its not needed. too many UK regional airports all fighting for the same scraps

[highwideandugly]

Anyone know when the results of the strike/industrial action ballot will be announced? Think it closed yesterday..not sure how long these things take?

Mayor will be getting his PR Script ready😀

[samj]

It amazes me that Teesside will be open for a handful of flights over the winter. Surely this is in an inconvenience to them, and also the airlines? Can't see any positivity about the future of this airport unfortunately, as much as it would be great to see it a success.

[David Thompson]

What other business does MME do to keep it going? How is it managing yet DSA can't ? I don't get it. HUY even quieter but is still open.
From Ben Houchen's Facebook Page ;

https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t99/1/16/32_20e3.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t5b/1/16/30_20e3.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t5b/1/16/30_20e3.png brand new, good quality engineering jobs set to be created by US aviation firm Willis, who are investing £25m in our airport.
It’s great news that Teesside Airport is in the running to become a new Investment Zone, alongside Middlesbrough and Hartlepool town centres.
By making it easier for businesses to invest here by reducing their costs and getting them building even quicker, Teesside Airport can secure even more investment from firms like Willis who create the great jobs we deserve. https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tfc/1/16/1f44d.png

I'm not sure how Willis have risen to become such a big player at Teesside over such a short period of time but as well as ground handling and cargo they are also taking over fuel as well as establishing this new 'aircraft engineering facility' ?

[N707ZS]

Hangarage is the key and the T tail of the 727 can pose problems for some constructions. Mind you, it just fitted inside the ex RAF then Vulcan hangar at Donny.
They fit in the same hangar at Doncaster as hangar 1 Teesside. The mayor needs to move Fed Ex on to a freight shed and they could go in there.

[tigertanaka]

August CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 23,358

8% up on last month
99% up on August 2021
90% on August 2019 (pre covid)
Best month for passenger traffic since September 2010.


Individual routes:

Aberdeen: 2,155 (up 3% v July but down 21% v August 2021)
Belfast City: 848 (up 9% v July but down 29% v August 2021)
Jersey: 514 (down 21% v July and down 21% v August 2021)
Newquay: 267 (down 12% v July and down 57% v August 2021)
Alicante: 3,173 (up 0% v July and up 79% v August 2021)
Amsterdam: 5,040 (up 40% v July, only 457 passengers in August 2021)
Burgas: 1,581 (up 40% v July, no flights in August 2021)
Corfu: 1,285 (down 21% v July but up 160% v August 2021)
Dublin: 341 (down 18% v July, no flight in August 2021)
Faro: 3,036 (up 1% v July and up 332% August 2021)
Palma: 4,814 (up 10% v July and up 315% v August 2021)

Plus charters to Farnborough (27), Bergamo (184) and Eindhoven (89)

Loads continue to be strong on Aberdeen with over 24 passengers per flight and this is the best single operator month on the route since November 2015. Belfast was down year on year as there were only 40 rotations this August compared to 60 in 2021. Jersey is decent in terms of loads but down on last month due to fewer Saturdays in August compared to July and down on last year when Loganair also operated the route. Newquay had its best ever loads but one flight a week does limit the numbers on this route. Dublin has similar loads to Belfast but can this route really survive long term on 2 flights a week?

Amsterdam loads of 61.6 would still have been decent in pre-covid times good but the schedule still only half of what is was in 2019 which is the reason why the route is flying around 5,000 fewer people a month than throughout 2019. Ryanair had really strong loads on Alicante (176), Corfu (161), Faro (169) and Palma (169) - this compares to the 178 passengers per flight on the TUI Palma route. Bourgas was much better in August with 1,581 passengers but loads of 99 passengers still implies that there is not enough demand to fill two flights a week from Teesside (although two flights a week are still planned for next year).

[highwideandugly]

Tigertanaka..Excellent review as always!

376 departing passengers per day..338 in May…

Height of the season..so what these figures tell us..is that many more daily flights are required to fulfil the mayor’s promises?

Worrying that Dublin looks fragile and Belfast borderline?
Amsterdam continues to be a bit of an enigma..passengers are there…but KLM/Schiphol are in disarray..along with many other airports!

Growth everywhere in the present climate is on a knife edge.

[highwideandugly]

Oil Spill guys off to Cardiff.

TUI off to everywhere..except here.
Wizz off to Leeds

The sad demise of DSA hasn’t helped too much up here..

[Cautious Optimist]

The Oil Spill move to Cardiff is quoted as an interim measure, although admittedly once they're in it might be hard to tempt them back out. Cardiff has no more hangarage than we do and they'll want some so I guess it could come down to who's willing to build some first? TUI have announced extra capacity at EMA, LBA and MAN but it amounts to nowhere near the four or five aircraft based at DSA so don't rule them out just yet. Wizz is the kick in the teeth, given we had them before, coupled with the website leak last year that suggested a deal was at an advanced stage, they should have been an achievable target.

You didn't mention NPAS, who have been linked with both Birmingham and Leeds East.

[N707ZS]

On the upside Teesside is breeding Cessnas Aeroschool previously Scenic is now I think up to five aircraft from two.

[RoyHudd]

MME is a dead duck. Has been for a few years. Sad really, but true.

[N707ZS]

Productivity seems to be zero in all departments at the boy's club. Will the mayor realise this or is he bothered.

[AirportPlanner1]

Perhaps the Mayor is more worried about being a regular name in Private Eye.

[highwideandugly]

Yes..not a lot of positive press for him in that “esteemed “journal!

This winter is going to be a huge drain on airport resources with very little inward daily revenue.Current contracts with Willis et al excepted.

The much vaunted Sky Bar already has restricted hours and closures.Not sure when the outside “viewing” area ! Opens?

I really fear for the Spa offering😀

[Beafer]

Productivity seems to be zero in all departments at the boy's club. Will the mayor realise this or is he bothered.

How long has the Tory mayor got left? I think the writing may be on the wall with the public money he is spending.

Is it true the runway is sinking at MME? An older resident told me that industrial ash used under the tarmac years ago. Could turn out to be expensive.

[SWBKCB]

How long has the Tory mayor got left?.

Next elections are May 2024

[Asturias56]

"An older resident told me that industrial ash used under the tarmac years ago"

Most of the Motorway programme in the 50's & 60's used ash - as did a lot of big buildings

[something_diferent]

I did think something would have happened on the freight front at least by now - they made a big song and dance of opening the cargo hub a few months ago so assumed they would have had something lined up..

[highwideandugly]

Not sure how much freight has been shifted since the opening in August?

Think it cost 2.5 million or thereabouts?

[N707ZS]

Simple NONE!

[highwideandugly]

Interesting Loganair announcement today..no idea how that will affect future operations? Not just here!

[SKOJB]

Interesting Loganair announcement today..no idea how that will affect future operations? Not just here!

would imagine no change whatsoever. Their business is being run very well with sustainable growth and enhanced profits so BAU for whomever takes over!

[mmeman]

Ryanair flights for Summer 2023 started to appear in the App - Alicante 2 per week, Tue AM, Saturday evening and Palma Fri AM and Sunday AM. Flight times not as good as this year.

[P330]

No sign of any increases then for next year?

[highwideandugly]

Mayor and his PR hat will be on it 🤔

Think an extra TUI to Turkey.

Not sure of Belfast and Dublin …

Not sure of Balkan.

But not looking like the huge increase needed to meet forecasts?

KLM. Who knows..1/2 or 3 per day…

Covid continues to have a major impact on progress 🤪

[skyman771]

Covid continues to have a major impact on progress 🤪

In what respect are you blaming "Covid"? Surely we have all moved on? Teesside's problems were well entrenched pre Covid.

[N707ZS]

Mayor and his PR hat will be on it 🤔

Think an extra TUI to Turkey.

🤪

We haven't got one Turkey never mind extra.

[Danny54d2]

We haven't got one Turkey never mind extra.
TUI are operating weekly flights to Antalya in Summer 2023

[N707ZS]

Not in 2022 Dany. Two flights would be a bonus.

[P330]

What Danny is saying is TUI are adding an additional destination in 2023, doubling their offering.

So, next year TUI will fly again to Palma alongside an additional new route to Turkey.

[P330]

KLM timetable slightly changed again but still 2 x a day from 31st (except Sunday).

Night stop 1530/1539 returns with the second rotation being the afternoon 1537/8 (was previously the morning 1533/4).

FWIW, 3 a day still in the plan from January.

[Beatts]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/528x752/fbfbf_c2c4d745c2a7ed33ec96407c9efb5b12cf0e914f.png

[SKOJB]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/528x752/fbfbf_c2c4d745c2a7ed33ec96407c9efb5b12cf0e914f.png

brilliant achievement with 4 or so flights departing daily!

[highwideandugly]

No matter what anyone thinks..the PR generated from the airport, courtesy of the mayor is really second to none!

PM anyone?

[N707ZS]

Amazed he's not showing his white teeth in the front row of the photo. PM, yes, he has skills like Boris.

[HH6702]

Maybe Teesside could become a seasonal airport opens April - October for the holiday flights.
surely that could save money during the winter months

not sure if any other airports are like this around the world ?

[P330]

Reus in Spain is a seasonal airport (serving Salou etc).

Can get 18 Charters in on a busy summer day but with no scheduled services means it’s dead in winter.

For all our doom, winter looks pretty consistent with pre-covid winters. Maybe one less Amsterdam but we have Belfast and Alicante.

[N707ZS]

The staff wouldn't be too happy with that.

[Harold77]

For all our doom, winter looks pretty consistent with pre-covid winters. Maybe one less Amsterdam but we have Belfast and Alicante.

Hopefully with that Amsterdam on a morning means that route figures will start to get back towards good levels once again for the route. Fingers crossed that the issues over in Amsterdam are resolving and that not too long into the New Year will see the third service operate once again.

Weekly
Alicante (2)
Belfast (4)
Aberdeen (11)
Amsterdam (13)

Handful of Dublin flights over Christmas- New Year period along with the Santa & Northern Lights charter flights.

With the increase in flying schools activity and Draken increasing their workloads at least there will be plenty of airfield activity during the winter months.

Hopefully it won't be too long before next years route schedules comes out.

[N707ZS]

The Teesside management have ventured to the infamous Routes conference.

[highwideandugly]

Harold 77…So that’s approx. 4 schedule departures per day for the winter.

How, Does that compare to recent years..doesn’t look to exhilarating!

Yes plenty of airfield activity..but revenue?

[davidjohnson6]

The Teesside management have ventured to the infamous Routes conference.
Was the trip to Las Vegas a serious one, a sign of desperation, or just a very big corporate jolly ? I'm wondering how many airlines are credibly on MME's target list... I'd guess you can count them on your fingers and have some fingers left over

The Routes Europe conference in Lodz, Poland in May 2023 seems like a more appropriate venue

[SWBKCB]

How, Does that compare to recent years..doesn’t look to exhilarating!

About the same as 2018 - used to be more ABZ and AMS, but no ALC/BHD

From CAA stats - Total Air Transport Movements

July 2017 - 319;
July 2018 - 267;
July 2019 - 274;
July 2020 - 156;
July 2021 - 568;
July 2022 - 327

[N707ZS]

I see Leeds Bradford has been diverting flights today and Teesside collected zero.

[tigertanaka]

Aberdeen flies fewer rotations but uses bigger planes so flies more passengers overall these days v 2018. The issues with KLM & Amsterdam are really hammering the number of movements compared to the pre-covid period)

July 2022 v 2018
Aberdeen: +590 passengers (-27 flights)
Amsterdam -5,810 (-60)
Bourgas -144 (+10)
Jersey: +49 (+2)

Not flown in 2018
Alicante: +3,161 (+18)
Belfast City: +780 (+40)
Corfu +1,663 (+10)
Dublin +414 (+20)
Faro +3,019 (+18)
Newquay: +304 (+10)
Palma: 4,390 (+26)

[SWBKCB]

Aberdeen flies fewer rotations but uses bigger planes so flies more passengers overall these days v 2018. The issues with KLM & Amsterdam are really hammering the number of movements compared to the pre-covid period)

July 2022 v 2018
Aberdeen: +590 passengers (-27 flights)
Amsterdam -5,810 (-60)
Bourgas -144 (+10)
Jersey: +49 (+2)

Not flown in 2018
Alicante: +3,161 (+18)
Belfast City: +780 (+40)
Corfu +1,663 (+10)
Dublin +414 (+20)
Faro +3,019 (+18)
Newquay: +304 (+10)
Palma: 4,390 (+26)

Apologies, my July stats have confused things as the original query was about flights over the winter.

I'm getting mixed up by the Mayor's fluff about punctuality stats.

[Harold77]

Aberdeen flies fewer rotations but uses bigger planes so flies more passengers overall these days v 2018. The issues with KLM & Amsterdam are really hammering the number of movements compared to the pre-covid period)

July 2022 v 2018
Aberdeen: +590 passengers (-27 flights)
Amsterdam -5,810 (-60)


Eastern BAe Jetstream 41 (29 seater) 2018, 3 flights per day.
Loganair Embraer ERJ-145 (49 seater) 2022, 2 flights per day.

KLM Embraer ERJ-175 (88 seater) which is 8 seats more than the Fokkers they replaced in November 2017.

[Harold77]

The Teesside management have ventured to the infamous Routes conference.

A good contingent from UK Airports. You have got to get your name out there and where better than specialised confrences where all sectors of the industry are in one place. They say that lot of business happens at such events, including trade airshows. If they put a compelling case forward it could pay off big time. So whether it is 1 or 20 airlines/ routes it is all new business and brand awareness is out there.

Teesside International Airport
St. John's International Airport Authority
Regional & City Airports (RCA owns Bournemouth Airport, Coventry Airport, Exeter Airport and Norwich Airport, and operates Blackpool Airport, City of Derry Airport and Solent Airport Daedalus on behalf of their owners)
Newcastle International Airport
Mobility Watch
MAG Manchester Airport (Manchester, London Stansted, East Midlands)
London Southend Airport
London Luton Airport
London Gatwick Airport
Liverpool John Lennon Airport
Leeds Bradford® Airport
Heathrow Airport
Glasgow Airport
George Best Belfast City Airport
Edinburgh Airport
Cornwall Airport Newquay
Cardiff Airport
Bristol Airport
Birmingham Airport
Belfast International Airport

[N707ZS]

If only Harold. In the real world, viva Las Vegas paid for by the mayor. Can you produce evidence of previous success.

[Harold77]

186 airlines attended.
370 airports attended.
76 tourism destinations attended.
74 suppliers attended.

That is a big market under one roof so to speak. .
The cost of attending could be offset many times over by increase in business that comes off the back of attending. You've got to network to build up business. You can't sit back and expect business to come to you, you have to go out and earn that business.
It has worked for many.
https://www.routesonline.com/events/

In the world of business. The future is here and now, as if you pass by this opportunity there will be no tomorrow.
You take every opportunity that you can get. You go out and meet people and build up a rapport and success and deals follow by building a good rapport.
That is how you build business.
You do not open a shop and not tell people your there. You go out and advertise that you are there. You go out to supplier events to help you get what you need.

It is the same thing with going to these confrences. You go out and put your name in the market.

[davidjohnson6]

Yes, there is a need to "get out there" and meet potential customers. However, how many of the airline employees at the Routes Global event, rather than the Routes Europe event, are looking to meet very small regional airports ? I'm sure the likes of Heathrow or Manchester would have found the global event very productive... but for Teesside to turn up, it seems a bit like the local neighbourhood restaurant putting adverts on national TV instead of giving out flyers on the local High St. Expensive, and substantially tries to talk to the wrong audience. Unless of course you want to follow the model of some Middle East airlines - namely throw unlimited amounts of money at something and build a company at any cost and not worry about the cost to the taxpayer

[Jamesair1]

A very accurate description of what attendance at an event such as Routes On Line can offer. The hard work begins after the event when the networking between the contacts made begins.

[caaardiff]

When you're a relatively small regional airport with limited options of potentially successful routes, wouldn't it be easier to pick up the phone and get in touch with the limited number of Airlines that could operate those limited number of routes? Would save a few dollars.

[SWBKCB]

Realistically, the pool of prospective users of Teesside is what, about a dozen airlines? If you aren't on first name terms with the key people at these airlines already I'd be asking why.

Don't forget that Teesside is publicly owned, losing money and funded out of a pot provided by central government. Are you sure that this is an appropriate use of your taxes?

[N707ZS]

Harold previously told us two or three airlines were interested but so far zero. SWBKCB we believe its publicly owned but the parking scheme tells us its private land.

[Cautious Optimist]

and if they hadn't gone to it everyone on here would be demanding to know why and questioning their ambition....:ugh:

[N707ZS]

Chicken and egg situation then.

[SWBKCB]

and if they hadn't gone to it everyone on here would be demanding to know why and questioning their ambition....:ugh:

Not everyone, I can assure you...

[davidjohnson6]

MME sent some people to Routes Europe in Bergen in May earlier this year. Sensible decision to have gone. If MME had not gone to Routes *Europe*, I would be wondering why they did not go.

[oldart]

Routes all well and good if they happen, but what about the South side development? That seems to have gone very quiet apart from a link road being constructed.

[SWBKCB]

Don't think much has happened since this story from March - 2020. Also, never thought of it before, but how does the link road cross the railway?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/up-6000-jobs-move-closer-17848985

Also, never thought of it before, but how does the link road cross the railway?

[Cautious Optimist]

It doesn't, it begins after the railway has already passed over the A67. If you go on Google Earth, then click the time slider, it triggers a more up-to-date map that doesn't show as default, and the new road is visible

[Harold77]

Don't think much has happened since this story from March - 2020. Also, never thought of it before, but how does the link road cross the railway?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/up-6000-jobs-move-closer-17848985

Also, never thought of it before, but how does the link road cross the railway?

The new road starts next to Wilkinsons Garden Centre, which is the otherside of the railway bridge at Long Newton.

[Harold77]

I cannot fault the team going to the Routes World event, as this is the main one with more attendees and more contacts that can be made.
It wasn't just airlines that were there. Global cargo companies were there as well. Teesside's not just requiring european connections, but requirements for global connectivity for not only just passengers, but for freight as well.

Since Teesside was pretty much starting from pretty much zero when purchased. The need to get out there to make global contacts is a high priority.

In a way the attendance isn't just beneficial for the airport, but the wider region as a whole. This is due to the huge amount of developments going on around the region that ties into how easy Teesside Airport is to reach these developments. So attending the World event helps with the investment from around the globe being ploughed into the region as more providers can be met. So attending these events are on a multifaceted approach than what it seems from an outside point of view. There are multi layers that play into these events that are easily overlooked to a casual observer.

Don't go thinking that contracts are made and signed while at the event. In some quarters yes they can happen, this is mainly a networking event were getting details and brief conversations are had. It is in the weeks and months following the events is were talks can progress, going into deeper details and progress towards deals.

[SWBKCB]

It's always easy to spend somebody else's money - which Global cargo companies were there?

[GrahamK]

The biggest problem MME will have is to convince airlines to choose them over NCL or LBA I'd have thought?

[Harold77]

It's always easy to spend somebody else's money - which Global cargo companies were there?

The full list of airlines that attened the event.
https://www.routesonline.com/events/236/routes-world-2022/attending-delegates/airlines/all/

[mmeman]

So looking at the list of airlines that were there, it contains exactly the companies that the airport should be talking to - Easyjet, Jet2, TUI, Wizz, Ryanair group companies, KLM, Pegasus, Sun Express.....

[SWBKCB]

And those airlines should already be sick of the sight of the MME marketing team, without having to go to the other side of the world...

[davidjohnson6]

Just trying to imagine the scene of someone senior from the network planning team at KLM who has spent weeks thinking about the implications of noise/pollution related long term major slot reductions at AMS and in the few short days of the annual global Routes conference desperately trying to meet in person with various people from the likes of JFK or ATL .... only to have somebody from MME bugging them to expand on a short haul feeder route

[Cautious Optimist]

The meetings are arranged in advance of the event, if two entities are talking it's because they want to, they can always hit the reject button when a meeting request comes in. And before anyone suggests otherwise, MMEs docket in the past has been full, although not too sure about this event specifically.

[highwideandugly]

Docket may have been full in the past..but not sure what actually has been really achieved over the last few Route Conference meetings…unless someone knows different?

[BA318]

Docket may have been full in the past..but not sure what actually has been really achieved over the last few Route Conference meetings…unless someone knows different?

They can’t win. If they didn’t go people would complain they are not trying. It’s probably cheaper and easier to fly to Las Vegas and meet many prospects at once than fly to AMS, IST, etc individually to meet and be told no chance etc.

[Jamesair1]

I agree with Graham K.....NCL with circa 5m pax a year will be more of a focus for airlines looking to expand/introduce new scheduled services in the region.

[Buster the Bear]

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/klm-reinstates-early-morning-teesside-departure

[highwideandugly]

Has the Loganair Dublin service finished?
Notice there are a couple of flights over Xmas but nothing else?

[SWBKCB]

Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen said: “Our airport is going from strength to strength and has welcomed a bumper crop of new destinations this summer. KLM has been a great supporter of our airport for many years now.

Not sure about a bumper crop, but have there been any new destinations this summer? Appreciate that Antalya is new for next year.

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/early-morning-link-to-the-world-makes-welcome-return-from-teesside-airport/

[N707ZS]

Mayor and his mates are busy cleansing the Southside environment of wildlife. And this old couple. Fire school is supposedly safe.
'It's driving the Mrs nutty': Couples' 'countryside' home now feet from muddy airport construction site - Teesside Live (gazettelive.co.uk) (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/its-driving-mrs-nutty-couples-25416369)

On the Northside the Draken hangar has its front door but the rest of the place looks like a scrap yard.

[mmeteesside]

Not sure about a bumper crop, but have there been any new destinations this summer? Appreciate that Antalya is new for next year.

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/early-morning-link-to-the-world-makes-welcome-return-from-teesside-airport/

I assume from that he is talking about summer 2022 in which case all 4 of the Ryanair destinations were ‘new’, and performed pretty strongly.
I hope we’ll see some announcements for 2023 soon otherwise we’re not going to see much growth. Good news on the Amsterdam nightstopper being back, shame it’s only twice daily still but it’s still a better schedule than what we had.

[SWBKCB]

I assume from that he is talking about summer 2022 in which case all 4 of the Ryanair destinations were ‘new’, and performed pretty strongly.

According to the usually reliable Teesside movements website, they all operated in 2021 so aren't new.

They only new routes I can see are Southampton (less than two months) and Dublin?

[MARKEYD]

Looks like TUI have added an extra service to Palma on a Saturday afternoon for next summer 23

Flight is operated by a TUI B738

[N707ZS]

An extra Tui flight would have been the ideal time for a mayor photo shoot and advertisement.

[highwideandugly]

Photos? Still time!

[RA85684]

Surely a year round weekly TUI Tenerife would be a winner at least. Dalaman, Rhodes, Malaga and Alicante among others shouldn't be out of the question either - should TUI care to expand from MME.

[Beafer]

Peel cut their losses at DSA after losing £10m a year. Teesside lost £13.8m last year. £11m lost this year.

Question is how long will the government prop up the losses at Teesside Airport with tax payers money? The mayor may not be elected at the next TVCA election, what then?
News of a further £20m ploughed in by the mayor. Taxpayers money again.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/extra-20m-of-taxpayer-cash-to-be-ploughed-into-teesside-airport-after-further-11m-loss-revealed/ar-AAZAsEh

[onion]

Peel cut their losses at DSA after losing £10m a year. Teesside lost £13.8m last year. £11m lost this year.

Question is how long will the government prop up the losses at Teesside Airport with tax payers money? The mayor may not be elected at the next TVCA election, what then?
News of a further £20m ploughed in by the mayor. Taxpayers money again.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/extra-20m-of-taxpayer-cash-to-be-ploughed-into-teesside-airport-after-further-11m-loss-revealed/ar-AAZAsEh

Have you bothered to check the date of the article?
My question to you is what are you thoughts on the £400m 'government' and 'tax payers' are propping up NCL with, and how they are going to pay the £60m this year and £120m they owe next year?

You seem decidedly quiet on that front! Maybe it doesn't meet you agenda to mention that!

[Beafer]

Have you bothered to check the date of the article?
My question to you is what are you thoughts on the £400m 'government' and 'tax payers' are propping up NCL with, and how they are going to pay the £60m this year and £120m they owe next year?

You seem decidedly quiet on that front! Maybe it doesn't meet you agenda to mention that!

Yes it was posted in July, but I cant see the millions in losses changing at Teesside, unless the millions have increased?
Agenda? :confused: strange thing to post, unless your from the mayors office?

As for your NCL debt quota, have you any information to back that up on the NCL thread? Best catch the train Onion while its waiting at the Teesside Airport terminal :ok:

[OzzyOzBorn]

ALL passenger-focused airports have posted terrible financial numbers for the years defined by coronapanic. The appropriate comparison is to look at financial results in the years running up to 2019 for guidance, then to judge whether figures can improve back to that level again. And if results in 2018-19 and earlier weren't good enough, what are the prospects of positive improvement going forward from here? This applies to airports generally, not just to MME and NCL.

[N707ZS]

No point in bitchin over the funding its where the funding is going which is of concern.

[onion]

Yes it was posted in July, but I cant see the millions in losses changing at Teesside, unless the millions have increased?
Agenda? :confused: strange thing to post, unless your from the mayors office?

As for your NCL debt quota, have you any information to back that up on the NCL thread? Best catch the train Onion while its waiting at the Teesside Airport terminal :ok:

Definitely don't work for the mayor but I know you'd love it if I did.
Regarding Newcastle if you look here
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04118128/filing-history

If you struggle with understanding it I'll be happy to help.
I'll just go find you some humble pie! 🥮 🔥🤣