Teesside-2

[Grumpy1]

"At least the Mayor has said he would never sell the airport in the future"

Although he handed over 90% of the South Side in secret to his special friends.

The terms of the compulsory purchase during WW2 dictate what can be done with the land if it is no longer used for aviation which is another reason why the close the airport and build houses story is a myth.

[SWBKCB]

It certainly wasn't worth £40m - and it was an airport requiring considerable inverstment being sold, not a farm. The sale was conditional on money being put in.

[N707ZS]

Don't forget the Southside contains quite a large amount of concrete from the taxiways, bomber circles and store buildings, definitely not arable land.

[highwideandugly]

Same old stories regurgitate every day.

Truth is..as many have said in the past..use it or lose it!

£2.50 car parking charge means nothing! That’s not really a revenue generating idea..but will ..as been seen on here..might put the ‘floating voters’ off!

Middle of summer season sees two schedules today.
Unless the ancillary business really starts to kick in..who knows what will happen?

A long term profit seems a long way off?

I’m sure the mayor will have some fantastic spin soon….

[onion]

Honestly you lot are really laughable.
Firstly a compulsory purchase criteria can be over turned/amended. Also would you care to state what that order states?

Secondly can you show me definitive proof that he has handed 90% over to his friends? Shareholding etc?
Why don't/didn't you call out the labour councils when the airport was handed over for a pittance?
This suggest your motivation is political. That or an alligence to another airport in the area and you just hate to see progress at MME.
Peel valued it enough to not sell it back at £500k.

Yes it is a use it or lose it situation, but the airport is on the right track, its not all about passengers through the terminal. Never has been.

[Grumpy1]

Onion demands proof of ownership in respect of the South Side. Thought this was resolved in April when it was established that:

"The South Side is owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED which is owned by the airport and a company called TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL LAND LIMITED, which is owned by Martin Trevor CORNEY and Joseph Christopher MUSGRAVE" In other threads it was shown that the airport and thus the taxpayer retains only a 10% share.

No doubt Onion will point us to the transparent public process inwhich the transfer of assets only occurred after an open tendering process.


Quote (https://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11425239)

[onion]

Onion demands proof of ownership in respect of the South Side. Thought this was resolved in April when it was established that:

"The South Side is owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED which is owned by the airport and a company called TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL LAND LIMITED, which is owned by Martin Trevor CORNEY and Joseph Christopher MUSGRAVE" In other threads it was shown that the airport and thus the taxpayer retains only a 10% share.

No doubt Onion will point us to the transparent public process inwhich the transfer of assets only occurred after an open tendering process.


Quote (https://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11425239)

Wrong.....
TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED is first of all at last set of account dormant and secondly is 50% owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL LAND LIMITED and 50% owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT LIMITED. Its clear on Companies House or are you now saying that information has been filed incorrectly?

In fact I have pointed the above out before. You still haven't been able to show your 90% ownership claim. Hence why i asked for the share holding!

I can't see from the companies house details TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED has had the land transfered to them or if they are just an operator of the business park!
I'm sure Grumpy you can provide the answer from you magic 🎩 to that one too!

[pug]

Wrong.....
TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED is first of all at last set of account dormant and secondly is 50% owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL LAND LIMITED and 50% owned by TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT LIMITED. Its clear on Companies House or are you now saying that information has been filed incorrectly?

In fact I have pointed the above out before. You still haven't been able to show your 90% ownership claim. Hence why i asked for the share holding!

I can't see from the companies house details TEESSIDE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK LIMITED has had the land transfered to them or if they are just an operator of the business park!
I'm sure Grumpy you can provide the answer from you magic 🎩 to that one too!

Whats with the Teesside Airport Foundation then?

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13281287

….and why did Stobart/Esken disappear after only half of their agreed term?

It’s not like they’ve got anything to hide is it, otherwise why would you set up a charitable trust to avoid scrutiny of your accounts?

[Grumpy1]

Thanks to Onion for his research and for confirming that a proportion of the South Side is indead no longer owned by the taxpayer. Not sure that only giving away 50% compared with 90% at the Teesworks makes that much different as it's the apparent secrecy of it all that is of concern and has of course resulted in the ongoing corruption enquiry. Assume that nobody has found any evidence of a public process before the deal was done.

[onion]

Thanks to Onion for his research and for confirming that a proportion of the South Side is indead no longer owned by the taxpayer. Not sure that only giving away 50% compared with 90% at the Teesworks makes that much different as it's the apparent secrecy of it all that is of concern and has of course resulted in the ongoing corruption enquiry. Assume that nobody has found any evidence of a public process before the deal was done.

Did I say that no.
I have no proof that a transfer of asset has taken place. There is a dormant company that is 50% split that may only be an operating vehicle for the business park and own nothing.
Your ignorance and stupidity is amazing.
Again if a transfer of asset has occurred in the accounts to the companies there will be the corresponding entries. Have you been able to find them?

I think I have proved beyond doubt that your ramblings are for the time being unfounded and quite frankly childish 'Chinese whispers'. I suggest you grow up and do some research. Before making outlandish claims..... just because you hide behind a keyboard doesnt make you immune from responsibility to do you checks correctly.

[Grumpy1]

Oh dear. Onion talks about hiding behind a keyboard but then fires of more abuse and aggression from his/her keyboard.
Investigative journalists report having attempted to clarify the situation but apparently with no success and they refer to Freedom of Information requests being resisted. The mayors office have had plenty of opportunity to clarify the situation.

[onion]

Oh dear. Onion talks about hiding behind a keyboard but then fires of more abuse and aggression from his/her keyboard.
Investigative journalists report having attempted to clarify the situation but apparently with no success and they refer to Freedom of Information requests being resisted. The mayors office have had plenty of opportunity to clarify the situation.

OK so where does that say 90%?
Regarding the investigative journalists.... they have been known to be wrong and i welcome the inquiry that has been set up. Politicians should be held to account.

In the same way politicians need to be held accountable so should posters on this forum.
When we post clear untruths I will call it out. Likewise I will call out blatant manipulation of my words too.

[SWBKCB]

Freedom of Information requests being resisted.

Freedom of Information legislation doesn't apply as the airport isn't wholly publicly owned - initially there was the Stobart/Esken shareholding and now the airport foundation.

[Grumpy1]

Suspicion arises because of the apparent secrecy and the Mayors alledged conduct at Teessworks. Where does it say 90% asks Onion. The problem is that there seems to be little in the public domain in relation to this tax payers asset and when it eventually came out the 90% of the Freeport had been handed over some may have assumed it was same proportion at the South Side in the absence of clarification from the mayors office. I will be delighted if sombody can point to anything in the public domain that explains the process in selecting the new partners, why it had to be kept sectret (assuming it was), the amount that they paid, their future investment and the split between owners.

[onion]

Suspicion arises because of the apparent secrecy and the Mayors alledged conduct at Teessworks. Where does it say 90% asks Onion. The problem is that there seems to be little in the public domain in relation to this tax payers asset and when it eventually came out the 90% of the Freeport had been handed over some may have assumed it was same proportion at the South Side in the absence of clarification from the mayors office. I will be delighted if sombody can point to anything in the public domain that explains the process in selecting the new partners, why it had to be kept sectret (assuming it was), the amount that they paid, their future investment and the split between owners.

Hmmmm I think we are treading on thin ground her until we have heard from the enquiry.
There seems to be confusion here over 'Freeport' 'Teeswork' 'Teesside Airport' and the business park at the airport.

Knowing a little about the running of Freeports - I think there is mass confusion over ownership of land, ownership of property and ownership of the actual operator of the Freeport customs sites. It is a minefield granted.

The operators of the Freeport can be a business with no physical assets! Unfortunately I haven't been involved in the Teesside Freeport so can't really comment on its structure and who is running it, but have had more input/dealings with the East Midlands and Humber Freeports.

If companies do transfer assets from one to another then it needs to be clearly demonstrated as such in the accounts to those companies.
Admittedly if you are up to no good you would try and hide that but the values we are talk would be harder to surpress/hide.

[highwideandugly]

Back to aeroplanes..

KLM just revealed the Winter schedule..remains the same as previous….normal..years at 18 departures per week.

[highwideandugly]

Reported that the Oil Spill B727s have departed…Anyone know where to..and Why?

[N707ZS]

Reported that the Oil Spill B727s have departed…Anyone know where to..and Why?
Only a few months ago they were the "Bees knees" just like Eastern, new hangars, new planes and again the curse of Teesside prevails.

[mikkie4]

B727s are now at LONDON SOUTHEND

[Expressflight]

B727s are now at LONDON SOUTHEND

Well, they're not at SEN.

Whether that may be their new intended base I don't know but I've heard nothing at all about that being planned, although I'm not as much 'in the loop' as I used to be.

[SWBKCB]

One's at Lasham and the others in the Middle East, both been away from Teesside for a couple of weeks.

[Expressflight]

One's at Lasham and the others in the Middle East, both been away from Teesside for a couple of weeks.

It seems it is true.

G-OSRB is flight planned into SEN tomorrow afternoon arriving from Djibouti via Chania, Greece.

[SWBKCB]

Tees Valley Mayor Ben Houchen said: “These figures show we are well and truly heading in the right direction when it comes to making our airport a success. But we know there is still a very long way to go. Breaching the 25,000 figure is good, but we have ambitions to be hitting that every single week"

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/record-breaking-month-sees-airport-hit-highest-passenger-figures-for-more-than-a-decade/

[P330]

Let’s see what the next set of announcements bring in the Autumn……🤞

[Grumpy1]

"Let’s see what the next set of announcements bring in the Autumn"

A few weeks ago the mayor stated that deals for new routes had been agreed but that he was not able to disclose details until Sept/Oct. Interesting that he has now reverted back to the more usual rhetoric that "we are in talks"......
Looking forward to Sept/Oct.

[highwideandugly]

Oh yeh of little faith! It’s middle of August now..not long to wait..l

[FlyMME]

Tenerife and Malaga with Ryanair seem to be the rumours and should do well.

[SWBKCB]

Tenerife and Malaga with Ryanair seem to be the rumours and should do well.

They do look to be no-brainers, if they can't fill those it will be time to pack up and go home. Terminal can't be sustainable on 1,000 pax a day in the peak season.

[Buster the Bear]

G-OSRB is on standby in Djibouti to deal with any slick for an oil tanker that was/is floundering off Sudan.

G-OSRA is on maintenance at Lasham since July 12th.

[Expressflight]

G-OSRB is on standby in Djibouti to deal with any slick for an oil tanker that was/is floundering off Sudan.
G-OSRA is on maintenance at Lasham since July 12th.

G-OSRB is flight planned into SEN tomorrow afternoon from Djibouti via Chania. Hopefully it will turn up this time.

[Buster the Bear]

Oil was taken from the stricken tanker, so seems likely it would return. Is there hangarage to fit a 727 at Southend? There certainly was once.

[Convair 440]

Planning ha been applied for 2 narrow body aircraft hangars north side with alteration to fence and access road to
the railway station Planning application validated 9th August

[SWBKCB]

I see the Teesside PR team is in overdrive about a couple of race horse movements.

Meanwhile the Southside and TVCA feature in the latest Private Eye. In summary, the story says the friends were selected as developement partners following what they claim was "a detailed competition process". TVCA say they were selected "following a presentation process" although nobody can give details of this process.

The resulting 50:50 partnership involved TVCA putting in £14.6m of "land and infrastructure" and the friends contribution was "forgoing management and short-term developers fees". TVCA would also lend £23.6m

TVCA says the joint venture would have 125 year lease on the land, but Land Registry records show the "beneficiary" to be Teesside International Land Ltd. I'll leave you to work out who owns that.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12352018/officers

[Grumpy1]

Will the South Side development form part of the ongoing corruption investigation and if not, why not?
I know I am a bit slow but what do the Airport and the tax payer get out of it other than more debt? Why was it all apparently arranged in secret?
Looking forward to Onion telling me how stupid I am.

[Beatts]

2 Excel Aviation transfers Oil Spill Response base to London Southend

https://aviationsourcenews.com/airline/2-excel-aviation-transfers-oil-spill-response-base-to-london-southend/?fbclid=IwAR2L5o1x-MlN8NssDnBqVk9K4Slh19vodVFVmilDU2Ubt1e7lpRWwFdYbEg (https://aviationsourcenews.com/airline/2-excel-aviation-transfers-oil-spill-response-base-to-london-southend/?fbclid=IwAR2L5o1x-MlN8NssDnBqVk9K4Slh19vodVFVmilDU2Ubt1e7lpRWwFdYbEg)

[SWBKCB]

Will the South Side development form part of the ongoing corruption investigation and if not, why not?
I know I am a bit slow but what do the Airport and the tax payer get out of it other than more debt? Why was it all apparently arranged in secret?
Looking forward to Onion telling me how stupid I am.

Like any commercial development, the expectation is that they will make money from rent etc. The figures quoted in the Private Eye article are £190m over 40 years for the friends and £155m for the airport (as the airport are putting in actual money)

[highwideandugly]

Tell you what …those boxes in the freight depot need a bit of sellotape on…never make it to the destination in one piece😀😀

[N707ZS]

What boxes are those?? Its never seen a box.

[Grumpy1]

"Its never seen a box". Dont you mean it's never seen a full box..... unless you are part of the mayors PR team in which case freight is buzzing!
Notice that the brief spell of aircraft carrying components for Nisan has ended. I assume because the brexit customs backlogs at the ports have died down but they may briefly return as the last week of the school holidays is predicted to be busy.

[Harold77]

A lot of industries have a summer shut down where investments and maintenance gets carried out.

[highwideandugly]

It was part of the horse feature on BBC local news…they went into the freight depot and a couple of guys were moving battered old boxes around..worth a search if you can, for a cringe🤪🤪

[Brewster Buffalo]

Will the South Side development form part of the ongoing corruption investigation and if not, why not?
I know I am a bit slow but what do the Airport and the tax payer get out of it other than more debt? Why was it all apparently arranged in secret?
Looking forward to Onion telling me how stupid I am.

Gets a mention on the latest Private Eye - "AIRPORT GIFTS The same businessmen who are cashing in on regeneration of the Tees freeport site are in line for a huge payout on a business park next to Teesside airport."

[SWBKCB]

The airport has partnered with the University to develop the Teesside Aviation Skills Academy. Construction work is now under way to convert part of the airport’s terminal building into a dedicated facility for university training and learning. It will provide a base from which students can learn on-the-job skills across a range of airport functions including air traffic control, management and engineering. The Teesside Aviation Skills Academy will offer aviation students an immersive learning experience that allows them to explore the intricate workings of an airport. Students will be provided with access to key areas of Teesside International Airport’s operations, from ground handling and air traffic control, to food and beverage and service delivery.
https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/news/students-ready-for-take-off-as-work-begins-on-pioneering-aviation-academy/

[SouthernAlliance]

Thought the airport required every bit of the terminal for all these new flights to be announced? Good initiative by the way!

[flybar]

Thought the airport required every bit of the terminal for all these new flights to be announced? Good initiative by the way!
it doesn't appear so! 3 x KLM rotations, 1 Ryanair and 1 Loganair is all you get through the terminal building today.

[N707ZS]

The Teesside Aviation Skills Academy Is this different from the other charitable trust?

[barry lloyd]

https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/news/students-ready-for-take-off-as-work-begins-on-pioneering-aviation-academy/

An idea possibly stolen/copied from DSA, which had a similar facility in its heyday?

[Cautious Optimist]

I don't think they can be accused of copying any one, more airports than not have some kind of aviation academy provision

[Jamesair1]

NCL has one

[barry lloyd]

I don't think they can be accused of copying any one, more airports than not have some kind of aviation academy provision

Some airports have an academy of sorts. DSA went the whole hog with a fully-fitted Iberia 727 fuselage, workshops etc. No idea what has happened to it all now. Does MME have something similar?

[Beafer]

https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/news/students-ready-for-take-off-as-work-begins-on-pioneering-aviation-academy/

Charitable trusts don't have to pay business rates. ;)

[SWBKCB]

The academy is a collaboration between the airport, Teesside University and Tees Valley Combined Authority

Is any charitable trust involved?

[N707ZS]

Teesside Uni already run a successful series of aviation college courses.

[highwideandugly]

Wonder how much of the terminal building is left for non airport development?
Would the new south side business park not have been a better location?

[N707ZS]

Wonder who's paying for it with cash being thin.

[Grumpy1]

The Airport/Willis had until 3rd September to address the 41 unresolved planning issues relating to the Willis development but this date has now passed with apparently no submissions and no further extension granted. It was not raised in the planning meeting last week and the mayor has stopped mentioning the development so is there any news?

[highwideandugly]

Work still ongoing…Bens Facebook pages are the ones to watch.

Anyone in the know aware of the release date of the latest financial airport figures ?..

see if the improving outlook continues.

[Jamesair1]

Major article in The Times today re the Freeport issue mentioned in previous posts.

[Grumpy1]

Its behind a paywall but is that the article that exposes the mayor for using public money to fund personal legal advise about sueing the local MP and Private Eye after they revealed the questionable secret deals at the Teesworks?

[Jamesair1]

Yes...that is the headline....Mayor Splashes Cash

[SWBKCB]

The Gazette's version.

A spokesman for Mr Houchen told the Local Democracy Reporting Service that Mr Houchen himself did not instruct lawyers, nor did he have any power to do so. He said the advice was sought by TVCA officers to assess the legal position on its behalf following “untrue and defamatory allegations made against it” and its subsidiaries.Ian Hislop, the editor of Private Eye, said the £7k bill was an “interesting use of public money earmarked for the regeneration of Teesside”. He said: “Good to see Lord Houchen supporting one of the most deprived sectors in Britain — London libel lawyers!”

A TVCA spokesman said: “The decision to seek legal advice was made following a series of articles by Private Eye and comments made by Middlesbrough MP Andy McDonald. False and unfounded allegations of misconduct and impropriety have been made against South Tees Development Corporation and its joint venture partner Teesworks Ltd.”

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/7k-spend-mayors-combined-authority-27695461

[Grumpy1]

The mayor attempted to deflect attention to MP Mr McDonald who had parliamentary privilege but the more serious allegations were made by the FT, The Yorkshire Post and in particular Private Eye who invited him to sue. Can we assume that as he has not issued proceedings that the tax payer funded legal advice was that his action would fail and thus the allegations had merit?

[Harold77]

CAA Stats for July

Terminal Passengers 25,369
Aircraft Movements 1,950
Cargo 42 tonnes

[N707ZS]

The new shed on the Southside is almost cladded, it might be finished before the road!

[davidjohnson6]

There is talk about the Dutch making all pax changing aircraft in the Netherlands also pay a departure tax as if their journey originated in the Netherlands. Reckon on about 53 euros being added to a round trip via AMS if this happens... which may push people to flying to/from NCL via LHR, CDG, DUB, DUS, FRA or DXB.

Does anyone have any data to indicate whether KL pax at MME are generally travelling to/from the Netherlands, to/from the rest of Europe or travelling long haul ?

[P330]

I can’t give recent data, but when I was closer to some KLM info, the vast majority of passengers; >75% if memory serves me right, were passengers transferring in Amsterdam.

I see the excellent movements website is quoting an EasyJet A319 coming in for Willis today.

Finally, anyone know when Ryanair will be putting next summer on sale? I guess there is hope of some positive news coming in this space.

[SWBKCB]

Wonder what the impact would be on CWL, HUY, NWI, SOU?

[pug]

Wonder what the impact would be on CWL, HUY, NWI, SOU?

HUY something like 85% interlining on KLM. That is over a decade old data but can’t imagine it’s changed much.

[Harold77]

Finally, anyone know when Ryanair will be putting next summer on sale? I guess there is hope of some positive news coming in this space.


Looks like they are just starting to put them in the systems for Summer 24. Bournemouth have just announced the first couple of routes for 2024 with more to be added over coming weeks. So if that's the case then it puts Teesside announcements into October which was mooted some months ago.

I have heard at least two new routes.

Will we see any increase in frequency on other routes.

Literally within matter of weeks we will know the score.

[P330]

I see Teesside Airport won airport of the year!!

[Sotonsean]

I see Teesside Airport won airport of the year!!

From an outside view it sounds a complete joke but from an insider's view you have to ask yourself. Do you actually take these sort of surveys seriously?

Obviously having that so called title is good news for Teesside and the mayor and the local population will rejoice in it. But come on in all reality and if I can make that quote from John McEnro "you can't be serious!"

[Grumpy1]

Most of us one here have life experience and know that these things are meaningless nonsense but you just have to look at the comments on Facebook to realise that the world is full of naive folks who suck it up and believe it's real. This one is like the "competition" that the mayor has been promoting inwhich you pay a fee that allows you to claim to have been shortlisted but in both cases we are "competing" again a very small number of other airports who have paid the fee. Generally the winner is dictated by how much advertising you purchase or requires supporters to disclose their valuable personal data to vote. Just look at say car of the year or perhaps camera of the year etc.

[Sotonsean]

Most of us one here have life experience and know that these things are meaningless nonsense but you just have to look at the comments on Facebook to realise that the world is full of naive folks who suck it up and believe it's real. This one is like the "competition" that the mayor has been promoting inwhich you pay a fee that allows you to claim to have been shortlisted but in both cases we are "competing" again a very small number of other airports who have paid the fee. Generally the winner is dictated by how much advertising you purchase or requires supporters to disclose their valuable personal data to vote. Just look at say car of the year or perhaps camera of the year etc.

Your last sentence is spot on, the rest is unbelievable but true. Regarding cars, I once bought what was supposed to be "car of the year' not because I knew it was at the time but it was probably one of worst car's that I have ever purchased.

[mmeman]

Interesting comments, isnt this award decided by a panel of industry experts, and wasn't Teesside up against Newcastle, Birmingham and East Midalnds, with Newcastle and Birmingham actuallly sponsoring awards at the ceremony and still didnt win? Were all the other winners meaningless? And just because other people have a different point of view they are naive?

[highwideandugly]

I’m not sure what the criteria is, however..

an airport with..this winter a maximum of 4 schedule departures per day..minimal surface transports links, massive loss making, poor arrival experiences (see Facebook), points in the direction of an other massive PR campaign by the mayor and his team!

It has though been reborn compared to past history!

[N707ZS]

Is this the award that the public had to vote for?

[SWBKCB]

Is this the award that the public had to vote for?

No - it's the annual TTG award, voted by a panel of industry experts

[Wallsendmag]

I've found out over the last couple of years attending award functions that the actual product being pushed has no relevance on who wins, it's all down to "sponsorship" or Ad revenue. I mean in what universe is Teesside UK and Ireland Airport of the year? It'll be Carlisle winning next year.

[mmeman]

Has anyone commenting on this award had any experience of using Teesside? Why can't Teesside be the best airport in the country - genuinely interested in what you consider the criteria to be to be the best airport in the country? If you are going to say range of destinations or flights, then that doesnt mean the airport experience is any good. Whether that experience continues to be good when the airport becomes busier, then that remains to be seen. And this point on sponsorship, I am not aware that Teesside sponsered anything, although I maybe wrong, but Newcastle and Birmingham certainly did and they did not win.

[SWBKCB]

A panel of aviation and travel expert judges assessed entries from airports across the country before awarding the gong to Teesside. They recognised the mammoth efforts undertaken to turn Teesside Airport around, including how it had grown its flights and improved the customer experience, is capitalising on its land and assets and has been leading the sector – for example, in becoming the first UK airport to scrap the 100ml liquid limit in security.

From the airport's press release - so the criteria isn't just about the passenger experience.

[Grumpy1]

"Why can't Teesside be the best airport in the country - genuinely interested in what you consider the criteria to be to be the best airport in the country?" Teesside may well be the best airport in the country, or perhaps more correctly the best of those who paid the fee to enter, we shall probably never know. The "industry experts" made a desision based on written submissions and apparently did not visit any of the airports or speak with any passengers. Still the airport can use the award on marketing and advertising material for the next year (normally subject to paying a licensing fee) and that can only help.

[SWBKCB]

Why can't Teesside be the best airport in the country - genuinely interested in what you consider the criteria to be to be the best airport in the country? If you are going to say range of destinations or flights, then that doesnt mean the airport experience is any good.

Looking at the winter timetable on the Teesside Movements website, the only difference to the Peel era is three flights a week to Alicante. Surely flights are the reason for an airport?

[Flying Hi]

Looking at the winter timetable on the Teesside Movements website, the only difference to the Peel era is three flights a week to Alicante. Surely flights are the reason for an airport?
Jobs, no matter how temporary? No airport - no jobs at all.

[Cautious Optimist]

Poor arrival experiences (see Facebook)
Can you elaborate on this? I've seen with my own eyes the reactions of arriving passengers and aside from the odd grumble of the walk from plane to immigration and the lack of a free pick-up window in the car parks, it's overwhelmingly positive

[onion]

Looking at the winter timetable on the Teesside Movements website, the only difference to the Peel era is three flights a week to Alicante. Surely flights are the reason for an airport?

You are correct flights are and there were 1950 movements in July, mean Teesside was busier than Humberside and Cardiff, and roughly equal give or take a couple movements a day to Southampton, Bournemouth and Prestwick.

Passengers are not the be all and end all for MME.

[SWBKCB]

How many of those flights needed a terminal?

[Grumpy1]

We have previously seen attempts to deflect attention from the poor passenger numbers by introducing movements. The Business Plan that was used to explain and justify the huge tax payer investment did not do so on the basis that the number on light aircraft going round and round in the circuit would be maintained. In fact has the airport not discouraged the tiddlers?
The Business Plan predicted a 10 fold increase in passenger numbers by now. As Covid is now behind us it would be nice if the mayor or others would explain what went wrong.

[highwideandugly]

Cautious..first hand experience of queuing in the rain waiting to get into Immigration..
There have been numerous Facebook remarks on this. Even Ben has stated work needs doing to improve this side of the airport.

Agreed though the outward experience is a vastly superior product if you compare to pre Covid.



Cargo is an interesting one also.

Nissan charters accounted for all? ..Inbound freight in last published figures..
Outward figures are rather poor….a sad reflection on NE industry?

[onion]

We have previously seen attempts to deflect attention from the poor passenger numbers by introducing movements. The Business Plan that was used to explain and justify the huge tax payer investment did not do so on the basis that the number on light aircraft going round and round in the circuit would be maintained. In fact has the airport not discouraged the tiddlers?
The Business Plan predicted a 10 fold increase in passenger numbers by now. As Covid is now behind us it would be nice if the mayor or others would explain what went wrong.

Again Grumpy I was responding to a direct comment regarding the reason for an airport.
which does have knock on effects to performance and experience.
For instance dealing with multiple tyes of aircraft make it much harder for ATC to integrate the traffic. Which can lead to delays.
Yes the distinction from aerodrome to airport is usually passengers - (commercial activity)
I agree that some targets were overly ambitious, but the whole enterpise is moving in the right direction.

I think it's a little unfair to have a go at MME for winning an award. Especially the comments that that award was bought (which are unfounded).
The saying goes you have to be in it to win it. MME were and did and the panel appear to be independent so why go after the place? If they didn't win you'd be pointing the finger asking why didn't they or word to that effect.
MME are damned if they do and damned if they don't with alot on here.

[SWBKCB]

Cautious..first hand experience of queuing in the rain waiting to get into Immigration..
There have been numerous Facebook remarks on this. Even Ben has stated work needs doing to improve this side of the airport.

Particularly when more than one aircraft arrives at a time

Agreed though the outward experience is a vastly superior product if you compare to pre Covid.

But at what cost? ABZ/AMS could have continued with minimum changes to the terminal. 'Global connectivity' hasn't improved. The terminal changes must have been aimed at the likes of RYR/TUI but they seem to be operating at a minimum level to satisfy their contracts. If the much flagged new services are the expected RYR TFS/AGP a couple of times a week, it starts to look like a 'cheap holidays for local people' exercise.

Cargo is an interesting one also.

Nissan charters accounted for all? ..Inbound freight in last published figures..
Outward figures are rather poor….a sad reflection on NE industry?

Yes - at present, MME's cargo busines is Nissan. And that business is what it always has been, 'just in time' feast or famine. The odd other bit is to use empty a/c on the return leg.

[N707ZS]

There is still a public voted best airport to come, see who wins that one. At the end of the day it gets the public interested in the airport.

We don't here how the various franchises are doing within the terminal.

[highwideandugly]

Another interesting point for the NE airports…how the forthcoming Amsterdam reduced slots policy will impact?

I suppose Teesside,Newcastle,Humberside and Leeds being technically so close together .almost duplicating each others services..will be on the KLM management’s (money men’s) radar for reductions?

Guess Edinburgh and Glasgow market is so big..they won’t be affected?
Manchester and Birmingham likewise?

[SWBKCB]

I think there is a lot of water to go under the bridge before there is any impact. And remember, KLM have been a constant at MME - they aren't doing it as a charity job

[Flying Hi]

Another interesting point for the NE airports…how the forthcoming Amsterdam reduced slots policy will impact?

I suppose Teesside,Newcastle,Humberside and Leeds being technically so close together .almost duplicating each others services..will be on the KLM management’s (money men’s) radar for reductions?

Guess Edinburgh and Glasgow market is so big..they won’t be affected?
Manchester and Birmingham likewise?
LBA and NCL 'technicaly' close? Enoy the technically horrible drive between the two up hideous A1M
Worse still would be HUY to NCL.
I think LBA snd HUY would serve different catchment area.

[ATNotts]

LBA and NCL 'technicaly' close? Enoy the technically horrible drive between the two up hideous A1M
Worse still would be HUY to NCL.
I think LBA snd HUY would serve different catchment area.
Technically they are close. Practically, as you say, they are not.

Given decent surface infrastructure the case for 'minor' commercial airports may be further diminshed. Fortunately for the like of MME infrastructure is rubbish!

[pug]

LBA and NCL 'technicaly' close? Enoy the technically horrible drive between the two up hideous A1M
Worse still would be HUY to NCL.
I think LBA snd HUY would serve different catchment area.

HUY serves the offshore and petro-chemical industry, similarly MME does too. I was always of the understanding that these airports and NWI are relatively low cost due to the ability to just drop in out of the airways and they are legacies of Air Anglia/Air Yuk having been operated constantly for around 50 years, it also probably explains why bigger markets like EMA and LPL were dropped relatively swiftly.

Still, the ongoing slot issues at AMS will undoubtedly have an impact in some way on the regional routes, don’t see any other operator being quite as committed to the U.K. regions.

[Cautious Optimist]

Cautious..first hand experience of queuing in the rain waiting to get into Immigration..
There have been numerous Facebook remarks on this. Even Ben has stated work needs doing to improve this side of the airport.
How often do you fly? It's a rarity for pax to be queuing outside the door, let alone outside the door in the rain. When they do it's more likely because people have tampered with the barriers and not skirted around the full setup. Agree covered walk-way is necessary but this is largely a non-issue

[Cautious Optimist]

I was reading on here the environmentalist party who run the Dutch government are expected to be voted out next month, at that point could the slot restrictions be reversed?

[pug]

I was reading on here the environmentalist party who run the Dutch government are expected to be voted out next month, at that point could the slot restrictions be reversed?

Didnt know that, hopefully yes. I think their whole operation is built upon hub and spoke for seamless connections and therefore rely on their supposedly high yielding regional connectivity to enable the sheer range of long haul options on offer. Take one away and the other would struggle in my opinion.

[P330]

Let me try and interject on a few things - some quite interesting comments these last few days..

But at what cost? ABZ/AMS could have continued with minimum changes to the terminal. 'Global connectivity' hasn't improved. The terminal changes must have been aimed at the likes of RYR/TUI but they seem to be operating at a minimum level to satisfy their contracts. If the much flagged new services are the expected RYR TFS/AGP a couple of times a week, it starts to look like a 'cheap holidays for local people' exercise.

Global connectivity hasn't improved, in fact arguably it is worse than before the current ownership. We used to have 3-4x Aberdeen a day and Amsterdam used to be a more reliable a x3 daily. Arguably, not much worse today than then, but certainly not better. The comment about the terminal changes being aimed at leisure is interesting, because it was clear from Houchen at the outset that buying the airport wasn't about bucket and spade flights, it was about new business connectivity. Any leisure flights were to be a bonus. To be fair, the owners tried:

London City - Started/Gone
London Heathrow - Started/Gone
Newquay - Started/Gone
Bristol - Started/Gone
Belfast - Started/Gone
Dublin - Started/Gone
Souuthampton - Started/Gone
Isle of Man - Didn't even start

But despite trying, every single route failed (and we can argue about Covid, routes not given enough time etc...) but the reality is every single one failed. And we end up back where we are.

So, it seems clear to be me that whilst there maybe a desire to get such routes back, if passengers numbers are to grow, the airport must focus on leisure - which was never the original intention. That isn't a bad thing, but that then brings about the point about "at what cost". Lots of money has been spent to develop what is a growing leisure airport.

I don't see this as a major problem, but it would help if politicians were honest. Wouldn't it be great if they said "you know what, we tried, we failed, but guess what...this side of things is growing much more now and this is now our focus" instead of the constant pretence that everything is working as it should.

We have previously seen attempts to deflect attention from the poor passenger numbers by introducing movements. The Business Plan that was used to explain and justify the huge tax payer investment did not do so on the basis that the number on light aircraft going round and round in the circuit would be maintained. In fact has the airport not discouraged the tiddlers?
The Business Plan predicted a 10 fold increase in passenger numbers by now. As Covid is now behind us it would be nice if the mayor or others would explain what went wrong.

Exactly. Owners being accountable and explaining things properly would stop a lot of noise.

Originally Posted by highwideandugly
Poor arrival experiences (see Facebook)

I suspect factually correct, but lets look at it in the round. The experience is no worse than it has ever been. And people will always find something to moan about. We live in a world of keyboard warriors who like to vent. OT, but I landed at NCL at 2am a few weeks ago and it took nearly an hour for a bus to arrive to deplane us despite us being 2 minutes walk to the terminal. Lots of tired and grumpy people. Was it great? No. I just sat back in my chair for another wee while and ignored the moans. Its a wonder what a deep intake of breath will do for stress levels. Far more important things to complain about in this world....

Looking at the winter timetable on the Teesside Movements website, the only difference to the Peel era is three flights a week to Alicante. Surely flights are the reason for an airport?
Yes and no. Lets not forget the airport was acquired to build cargo, a business park and jobs. And it is. We're in a hugely better position than we were under Peel. Is it perfect? No. Will we ever see multiple winter movements a day with NCL/LBA close by? Probably not.

From an outside view it sounds a complete joke but from an insider's view you have to ask yourself. Do you actually take these sort of surveys seriously?
Obviously having that so called title is good news for Teesside and the mayor and the local population will rejoice in it. But come on in all reality and if I can make that quote from John McEnro "you can't be serious!"

So what? We all know lots of awards include some internal push for them, paid or otherwise. That's life. But isn't winning an award better than not winning?

Remember folks - the airport is in a far better place than it has been in the last 15 years. And the direction of travel is great.

[pug]

Let me try and interject on a few things - some quite interesting comments these last few days..



Global connectivity hasn't improved, in fact arguably it is worse than before the current ownership. We used to have 3-4x Aberdeen a day and Amsterdam used to be a more reliable a x3 daily. Arguably, not much worse today than then, but certainly not better. The comment about the terminal changes being aimed at leisure is interesting, because it was clear from Houchen at the outset that buying the airport wasn't about bucket and spade flights, it was about new business connectivity. Any leisure flights were to be a bonus. To be fair, the owners tried:

London City - Started/Gone
London Heathrow - Started/Gone
Newquay - Started/Gone
Bristol - Started/Gone
Belfast - Started/Gone
Dublin - Started/Gone
Souuthampton - Started/Gone
Isle of Man - Didn't even start

But despite trying, every single route failed (and we can argue about Covid, routes not given enough time etc...) but the reality is every single one failed. And we end up back where we are.

So, it seems clear to be me that whilst there maybe a desire to get such routes back, if passengers numbers are to grow, the airport must focus on leisure - which was never the original intention. That isn't a bad thing, but that then brings about the point about "at what cost". Lots of money has been spent to develop what is a growing leisure airport.

I don't see this as a major problem, but it would help if politicians were honest. Wouldn't it be great if they said "you know what, we tried, we failed, but guess what...this side of things is growing much more now and this is now our focus" instead of the constant pretence that everything is working as it should.



Exactly. Owners being accountable and explaining things properly would stop a lot of noise.



I suspect factually correct, but lets look at it in the round. The experience is no worse than it has ever been. And people will always find something to moan about. We live in a world of keyboard warriors who like to vent. OT, but I landed at NCL at 2am a few weeks ago and it took nearly an hour for a bus to arrive to deplane us despite us being 2 minutes walk to the terminal. Lots of tired and grumpy people. Was it great? No. I just sat back in my chair for another wee while and ignored the moans. Its a wonder what a deep intake of breath will do for stress levels. Far more important things to complain about in this world....


Yes and no. Lets not forget the airport was acquired to build cargo, a business park and jobs. And it is. We're in a hugely better position than we were under Peel. Is it perfect? No. Will we ever see multiple winter movements a day with NCL/LBA close by? Probably not.



So what? We all know lots of awards include some internal push for them, paid or otherwise. That's life. But isn't winning an award better than not winning?

Remember folks - the airport is in a far better place than it has been in the last 15 years. And the direction of travel is great.

A fair assessment I think. The question is, is it sustainable? Seems to me to be a playground for Ben Houchen and a useful political pawn (see also DSA!). It is getting investment, which is encouraging, but TUI have barely grown since returning. Ryanair may add the odd route possibly to be announced this month, but with bases at LBA and now NCL is there much scope for growth in that sector? How much is the revenue generated by the extra Ryanair and TUI movements contributing to overall profitability or is it, as I expect, widening losses? Is freight really seeing an upward trend? What is the breakdown of Commercial Air Transport vs puddle jumpers and light GA?

2Excel have now decamped which must be disappointing considering the promotion of the new hangars used pictures of their aircraft. Are there any tenants signed up to use them?

With regards to the economic benefit of a regional airport;

https://neweconomics.org/2023/07/boom-in-air-travel-fails-to-increase-uk-productivity-or-gdp-growth

KLM must provide some return to the regional economy, but what else? And does it justify the millions in public funding?

[SWBKCB]

The comment about the terminal changes being aimed at leisure is interesting, because it was clear from Houchen at the outset that buying the airport wasn't about bucket and spade flights, it was about new business connectivity. Any leisure flights were to be a bonus.

I don't see this as a major problem, but it would help if politicians were honest.

Yes - we have to assume Houchen was being honest when he said it was about global connectivity, and not just about appealling to local voters.

To be fair, the owners tried:

London City - Started/Gone
London Heathrow - Started/Gone
Newquay - Started/Gone
Bristol - Started/Gone
Belfast - Started/Gone
Dublin - Started/Gone
Southampton - Started/Gone
Isle of Man - Didn't even start

How many of these did anybody really think were realistic, especially on the like of Loganair and Eastern? RYR may be able to make DUB work, but the rest?

Lets not forget the airport was acquired to build cargo, a business park and jobs.

Was it? Don't remember these being mentioned as a primary focus. If they were mentioned at alll, they were supporting functions to help return the airport to profitability

[SWBKCB]

A fair assessment I think. The question is, is it sustainable? Seems to me to be a playground for Ben Houchen and a useful political pawn (see also DSA!). It is getting investment, which is encouraging, but TUI have barely grown since returning. Ryanair may add the odd route possibly to be announced this month, but with bases at LBA and now NCL is there much scope for growth in that sector? How much is the revenue generated by the extra Ryanair and TUI movements contributing to overall profitability or is it, as I expect, widening losses? Is freight really seeing an upward trend? What is the breakdown of Commercial Air Transport vs puddle jumpers and light GA?

2Excel have now decamped which must be disappointing considering the promotion of the new hangars used pictures of their aircraft. Are there any tenants signed up to use them?

With regards to the economic benefit of a regional airport;

KLM must provide some return to the regional economy, but what else? And does it justify the millions in public funding?

Our comments crossed - I certainly think the airport is sustainable, but as an aviation focused business park with a runway in the middle of it. The things being done are the right things but in the wrong order and priority. Assuming there is a market for the business park, that should have been the initial project, building a solid base with Draken (whose expansion appears to have fallen into the airports lap) and the Willis village (who saw that coming?). The Terminal and Freight centre seem to have been developed on a "build it and they will come" basis, where as successful airports seem to get the business first and then scramble to cope while building the supporting infrastructure.

[pug]

Our comments crossed - I certainly think the airport is sustainable, but as an aviation focused business park with a runway in the middle of it. The things being done are the right things but in the wrong order and priority. Assuming there is a market for the business park, that should have been the initial project, building a solid base with Draken (whose expansion appears to have fallen into the airports lap) and the Willis village (who saw that coming?). The Terminal and Freight centre seem to have been developed on a "build it and they will come" basis, where as successful airports seem to get the business first and then scramble to cope while building the supporting infrastructure.

I think build it and they will come us a failed strategy, there is a reason why the successful airports don’t pursue such an investment strategy, more a case for the bigger players is build it because they said they’d come, or build it because it’s needed is the order of the day. I’m pretty certain that in the case of MME, they won’t come. Not in any scaleable or sustainable numbers anyway.

[P330]

Expanding a bit….

I think it’s clear that the original plan isn’t going according to plan. However, things are going well but maybe just differently to how was originally envisaged.

What would help is if an updated plan with refreshed numbers and a new narrative were made public. Within that, if there was a look back at what worked well and what hasn’t, that would be useful.

Problem is politicians don’t like admitting some things haven’t worked. Instead, they deflect to what is working. It turns people off politics and builds suspicion.

That said, let’s assume they’ve burnt more money than they would like and progress, although positive, is slower than originally thought….what could you do?

1). Sell up?
2). Admit defeat and run things down?
3). See that you’re making progress and keep going.

The only plausible option today is 3) both economically and politically. If they could do this with that honest, public update mentioned above, I’m sure most would be on board.

Now, if in 2 years time when the accounts reflect current non-Covid trading and if the numbers are going in the wrong direction and show no sign of getting to where they need to, then questions about continued use of the public purse are fair game.

[Harold77]

There has been a number of updates to the Business Plan since it was first created. The first update was after Covid hit as the scale of effects globally were starting to be known. It was said that the major effects of Covid would last for two years. The second update came the following year as things started to open up. Another came a year later due to length of time that global restrictions were taking to ease. Think updated Business Plan coming out of Covid had 2022 down for 147k passengers as base year (was mentioned on one of Mayors posts)

February 2019 TVCA purchase airport from Peel.
£35m purchase airport.
£5m for land parcel that was sold to house builders.
Total £40m


What I was able to work out August 2021
£3.5m radar upgrades
£1m security upgrade
£3m terminal refurbishment and upgrades.

Then we had new Draken hangar built, office block on side of terminal and skybar built, also the new luggage scanners.

From 2021-2022 Accounts.
£34.4m draw down loan facility for ongoing operations and investments available to 2029, this boosted by £20m to £54m.
£23.6m draw down loan facility for Southside Business Park.

£44m (combined) drawn down so far as of 31st March 2022 from an available £77m loan facility.


Jan 2023 £7m for Hangar and infrastructure from Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (DLUHC).

Financial Years / Passengers / Movements / Revenues / Loss/Profit
2022-23 / 192,283 / 21,360 /
2021-22 / 83,921 / 20,130 / £7,686,643 / -£11,882,689
2020-21 / 14,521 / 11,118 / £4,812,505 / -£13,632,028
2019-20 / 139,448 / 16,389 / £7,745,305 / -£1,737,251
2018-19 / 137,689 / 17,062 / £7,557,879 / -£5,725,046
2017-18 / 131,745 / 21,848 / £5,656,210 / -£2,620,225
2016-17 / 125,556 / 21,360 / £5,396,735 / -£2,732,790

So the increase in business compared to the first year (2019-20) of operation is significant, so is going to show pretty good revenue level for the 2022-23 when the results are revealed. So if you can read between the lines, you could work out what sort of revenue can be seen for 22-23.

So the important things to take from this is
Passengers increasing.
Aircraft Movements increasing.
Fuelling increasing.
Businesses increasing.
Revenues increasing.

Covid has took a huge amount out of the global aviation industry and is taking longer to get back to pre covid levels. Many airports are still down on pre covid levels, whereas Teesside has been steaming ahead since April 2022.

If covid hadn't hit then we would be further forward with passenger and flight numbers as the new routes would have bedded in, grew and expanded.

One thing to remember is the massive backlog in new aircraft from manufacturers to operators has made expansion plans that bit more of a headache. As having to juggle about older aircraft leaving from fleets and new aircraft not yet delivered is causing holes in timetables that need filling or cut temporarily. It is not as easy as saying why not keep the older aircraft from leaving fleet until new aircraft are delivered. Many of the older aircraft leaving are due big costly exams, so the hours left to fill the gap doesn't make paying for the exams economical before being removed.

[P330]

Thanks for the detailed insight Harold.

Do the updated plans give revised passenger/revenue/profit projections?

[Grumpy1]

Some very insightful and sensible reviews of the current situation that can perhaps be summarised as we had a go but it didn't quite work out but it was worth a try. Harold tells us that there have been revisised and presumably updated business plans and I assume that they are publicly available so the links would be helpful.
Harold's analysis of the data shows that progress has stalled with no obvious way of increasing passenger revenue unless we get new routes/destinations urgently. This month we do have the mayors promised big announcement of the deals that he has already done so fingers crossed.
The airport continues to loose about a million pounds per month and politically, not sure how long this can continue especially if there is a change of government next year or a change of mayor sooner.

[SWBKCB]

as we had a go but it didn't quite work out but it was worth a try.

Bit harsh - there have been investments made that haven't started to pay back yet.

I'd say route growth has stalled - pax numbers will plateau next year without new routes. Question is, has MME now reached it's natural level in terms of pax numbers? If so, it will need the 'industrial airport' investments to become profitable (Willis, Draken, business park, new hangars)

​​​​​​​

[pug]

Bit harsh - there have been investments made that haven't started to pay back yet.

I'd say route growth has stalled - pax numbers will plateau next year without new routes. Question is, has MME now reached it's natural level in terms of pax numbers? If so, it will need the 'industrial airport' investments to become profitable (Willis, Draken, business park, new hangars)



I agree, as is the case with most small airports it will need the other aviation (and non aviation) revenues to cover the costs of handling the passenger operation, which hopefully it will. I’d be interested to know who Harold 77 is referring to when he claims that airlines are struggling due to a backlog of orders? It’s funny how airlines tend to be able to source aircraft when they are pursuing growth, not really a reason why MME hasn’t announced new airline operators, it’s more because they aren’t interested. Maybe more from Ryanair this month though.

[SWBKCB]

Ryanair have announced cuts to winter schedules due to late delivery of MAX's. I agree - smoke and mirrors, if there was money to be made, the A/C would be available.

Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (Thurs 28th Sept) announced a number of Winter 2023 schedule reductions as a direct result of Boeing aircraft delivery delays during the Sept to Dec period. Ryanair had expected to receive 27 aircraft between Sept and Dec, but due to production delays at the Spirit Fuselage facility in Wichita, combined with Boeings repair and delivery delays in Seattle, Ryanair now expects to receive only 14 aircraft between Oct and Dec. Ryanair is working with Boeing to try to accelerate deliveries in the Jan to May 2024 period so that it can enter the Summer 2024 peak travel season with all 57 new Boeing aircraft deliveries as expected.

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-announces-autumn-winter-schedule-cuts-due-to-boeing-delivery-delays/

[Harold77]

The airport continues to loose about a million pounds per month and politically, not sure how long this can continue especially if there is a change of government next year or a change of mayor sooner.

Are you going off the last set of results 2021-22, or are you going off the 2022-23 results. If you are referring to the 2021-22 results then a lot has changed since then with incomes growing significantly since the 2021-22 results.

[Grumpy1]

Are you going off the last set of results 2021-22, or are you going off the 2022-23 results. If you are referring to the 2021-22 results then a lot has changed since then with incomes growing significantly since the 2021-22 results.

Cant think what significant additional income streams have benefited the airport recently to reduce the one million pounds per month losses so can you remind me please.

[P330]

Are you going off the last set of results 2021-22, or are you going off the 2022-23 results. If you are referring to the 2021-22 results then a lot has changed since then with incomes growing significantly since the 2021-22 results.

Cant think what significant additional income streams have benefited the airport recently to reduce the one million pounds per month losses so can you remind me please.

The most obvious is the passengers numbers. Look at passenger numbers in 21-22 v 22-23; the latter is more than double. This should translate into a lot more revenue. (Costs too I guess).

[Harold77]

Are you going off the last set of results 2021-22, or are you going off the 2022-23 results. If you are referring to the 2021-22 results then a lot has changed since then with incomes growing significantly since the 2021-22 results.

Cant think what significant additional income streams have benefited the airport recently to reduce the one million pounds per month losses so can you remind me please.

Right lets take a look since you cannot seem to see it.

Let's first look at the figures for the three years.
Year / Passengers / Movements / Revenues
2021-22 / 83,921 / 20,130 / £7,686,643
2020-21 / 14,521 / 11,118 / £4,812,505
2019-20 / 139,448 / 16,389 / £7,745,305

First look at 2019-20, this year was unaffected by Covid until the last two months.
Then take a look at 2021-22 a year that was severely affected by covid.
First thing that strikes you is the revenues are near enough the same, but the numbers are totally different.
How has 2021-22 revenue be able to match that of pre covid. This points to having to look at other increase in business to account for some of this upturn in revenue.

So the jump from 2020-21 to 2021-22 is where you can see a huge disparity.

Now come to this past year
Year / Passengers / Movements / Revenues
2022-23 / 192,283 / 21,360 /

Extra 52,835 passengers plus 4,971 more movements from 2019-20 to 2022-23
That is a big chunk of business to look at on top of the first year, especially increase in fuel sales.
Then add to the increase in other business across the airport revenue streams then you can see how much significant extra revenue has been created compared to the first year 2019-20.
TVCA moved their offices from Thornaby to the airport. This giving the airport a good rental income stream. Then you have the terminal business concessions and car parking income streams.
Businesses expanding on site.
There is a lot gone on that doesn't seem apparent to the eye if you are not watching regularly.

So there is a good upturn in revenues to be seen. Even more with this current financial year and is growing every year. Take off what is being invested and you see a more truer figure appear.

As the saying goes you have to spend money to make money.

The airport is in a far far better position than it has ever been and is set to break its highest ever revenue level possibly this year or next, which was set in 2006-07.

So the future is looking good.

[highwideandugly]

Movements….can’t be considered..I would guess a fixed income? Non airline..and probably airline are on fixed contract rates?

At the end of the day..non of of us have any idea! Where are are the official financial figures..which should be out by now?

[SWBKCB]

Yes you have to spend money to make money, but you have to spend it on the right things and at the right time - the freight centre being an example.

[tigertanaka]

Movements….can’t be considered..I would guess a fixed income? Non airline..and probably airline are on fixed contract rates?

At the end of the day..non of of us have any idea! Where are are the official financial figures..which should be out by now?

Limited companies generally get 9 months to file financial accounts so no, they should not be out by now.

[Harold77]

Where are are the official financial figures..which should be out by now?

The provisional results was July last year, September the year before.
But could be pushed back this year after CAA Monthly Stats are now released two months following instead of the previously following month. It could be a case of the CAA report changes that has affected the release of the provisional results, pushing back the compilation of results. .

[N707ZS]

Yes you have to spend money to make money, but you have to spend it on the right things and at the right time - the freight centre being an example.
Thats never been used.

[Grumpy1]

Dont think that CAA stats will have any impact on producing audited trading accounts.
The assumed recent increase in revenue that has been listed will have very little impact on the sizable losses. We never did find out what deal was done with Ryanair to bring them in or what proportion of the car park income they take for example. Best wait for the accounts to be published but it will be worrying if losses continue to be close to one million pounds per month when the business plan had us heading towards a trading profit by now.
In relation to the freight centre, the lack of any meaningful freight while air freight in the UK is generally busy is worrying. Let's not forget that MME has the disadvantage of being in a freeport so perhaps we were never going so see any proper freight. There is a very good reason why Teesport down the road fought hard not to be dragged into a freeport.

[pug]

Dont think that CAA stats will have any impact on producing audited trading accounts.
The assumed recent increase in revenue that has been listed will have very little impact on the sizable losses. We never did find out what deal was done with Ryanair to bring them in or what proportion of the car park income they take for example. Best wait for the accounts to be published but it will be worrying if losses continue to be close to one million pounds per month when the business plan had us heading towards a trading profit by now.
In relation to the freight centre, the lack of any meaningful freight while air freight in the UK is generally busy is worrying. Let's not forget that MME has the disadvantage of being in a freeport so perhaps we were never going so see any proper freight. There is a very good reason why Teesport down the road fought hard not to be dragged into a freeport.

Regarding air freight, there has been a trend towards more cargo being carried as belly freight on long-haul passenger aircraft. Very few airports in the U.K. can hope to become freight integrators, there just isn’t the market for it as they don’t need more than a couple of hubs in this country. Possibly some ad/hoc stuff but nothing on a scale that would generate any meaningful returns or significant employment.

[Harold77]

Part of the accounts feature Passenger Numbers and Aircraft Movements, so in general for cross referencing purposes, thus if CAA results are two months behind then obviously that has an impact.

Freeports are a good thing. They are not a hindrance to companies or transporters it doesn't slow down any custom processes. It helps saves companies located in freeports lots of money on import duties when they import stuff to work on/ process then export it back out of the country. Hence why Willis liked the airport freeport location. They can bring aircraft in do work on them and send them back out without any import duties. Those getting broken the import duty isn't classed as an aircraft, but as scrap metal and rubbish, thus lowering duty levels, so it is good business sense for Willis.

[onion]

Dont think that CAA stats will have any impact on producing audited trading accounts.
The assumed recent increase in revenue that has been listed will have very little impact on the sizable losses. We never did find out what deal was done with Ryanair to bring them in or what proportion of the car park income they take for example. Best wait for the accounts to be published but it will be worrying if losses continue to be close to one million pounds per month when the business plan had us heading towards a trading profit by now.
In relation to the freight centre, the lack of any meaningful freight while air freight in the UK is generally busy is worrying. Let's not forget that MME has the disadvantage of being in a freeport so perhaps we were never going so see any proper freight. There is a very good reason why Teesport down the road fought hard not to be dragged into a freeport.

What is the disadvantage to a freeport? and when you say Teesport didn't want to be in it what do you mean? Have you evidence?

[Grumpy1]

"What is the disadvantage to a freeport?" Summarised in numerous reports such as the findings of the Goverments Office of Budget Responsibility which concluded that they offered no benefit. It is a matter of fact that PD Ports Teesport are not in the freeport zone despite being surrounded by it. Why do you think they didnt want to be included? The last time we tried freeports we had the benefit of EU membership but they didnt work so were ended in 2012.

[ATNotts]

"What is the disadvantage to a freeport?" Summarised in numerous reports such as the findings of the Goverments Office of Budget Responsibility which concluded that they offered no benefit. It is a matter of fact that PD Ports Teesport are not in the freeport zone despite being surrounded by it. Why do you think they didnt want to be included? The last time we tried freeports we had the benefit of EU membership but they didnt work so were ended in 2012.
Exactly, freeports were a governnent headline grabbing gimick last time, as they are today. Difference is that this time around without the dubious advantage of being a gateway for non-EU products to the block they are even less likely to succeed. On a practical note the burocracy involved in getting stuff out was a pain. I know, I had to do it.

To be absolutely clear this isn't a criticism of Teesside, the EMA one will be similarly elephantine and white.

[onion]

"What is the disadvantage to a freeport?" Summarised in numerous reports such as the findings of the Goverments Office of Budget Responsibility which concluded that they offered no benefit. It is a matter of fact that PD Ports Teesport are not in the freeport zone despite being surrounded by it. Why do you think they didnt want to be included? The last time we tried freeports we had the benefit of EU membership but they didnt work so were ended in 2012.

So not a disadvantage though just an argument that it provides no benefit. Which is only an argument. Which I can make, especially as from an import export point of view you can get the benefits if you are not in a freezone by applying for a number of authorisations.
PD don't need to be because they are a port and will already have all the benefits that feeport brings. The freeport is more there to benefit new businesses and especially manufacturers.

They were not as beneficial in 2012 simply because we were in the EU!

[onion]

Exactly, freeports were a governnent headline grabbing gimick last time, as they are today. Difference is that this time around without the dubious advantage of being a gateway for non-EU products to the block they are even less likely to succeed. On a practical note the burocracy involved in getting stuff out was a pain. I know, I had to do it.

To be absolutely clear this isn't a criticism of Teesside, the EMA one will be similarly elephantine and white.

Actually they are more likely to actually work this time around simply because we are out due to goods being worked and gaining UK preferential origin allowing for UK preference to be claimed when they enter the EU.

That being said they may still be white elephants. As many compaies who already trade within the areas if they had needed the benefits will already have CW, IRP and OPR authorisations.

[SWBKCB]

The freeport is more there to benefit new businesses and especially manufacturers.

Isn't the evidence that they displace business from the surrounding area generating little growth, so no net benefit?

The earlier comment about Willis is interesting, in the back of my head I didn't think it would have this impact - are aircraft being worked on 'imported'?

[onion]

Isn't the evidence that they displace business from the surrounding area generating little growth, so no net benefit?

The earlier comment about Willis is interesting, in the back of my head I didn't think it would have this impact - are aircraft being worked on 'imported'?

That is an argument, but alot of those going into the Teesside one are new businesses, so that isn't an argument as such with the Teesside one.

Also no net benefit is not a disadvantage as some are trying to argue!

[SWBKCB]

Depends - freeports bring their own risks.

[onion]

Depends - freeports bring their own risks.
Agreed.

[Grumpy1]

Onion is correct in a way. Any possible short term advantage will be to a new company manufacturing within the freeport zone but a disadvantage to those existing companies relying on current trade agreements, hence the complaints from local business.
There is no manufacturing at MME and as it's a nightmare for a logistics company (ie a disadvantage) this is probably the reason why freight carriers have prefered other airports.

[Harold77]

Airport reporting over 27,000 passengers for September.

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/teesside-airport-is-uks-most-recovered-as-passenger-numbers-take-off/

[N707ZS]

More routes needed then, not just duplicates.

[ATNotts]

More routes needed then, not just duplicates.
I suspect its just as much the case that more PAX keen on using MME is just as important.

Although airlines sometimes appear to select route pairs by chucking darts at a map there has to be more to it than that, perhaps they feel that opening new routes to cities already served from NCL simply dilutes revenue rather than building the overal regional market.

For a non MME example look at why BHX can't sustain transatlantic schedules. Basically no need since PAX will use LHR, MAN or transit via DUB.

Not sniping at MME, just putting forward a theory.

[pug]

I suspect its just as much the case that more PAX keen on using MME is just as important.

Although airlines sometimes appear to select route pairs by chucking darts at a map there has to be more to it than that, perhaps they feel that opening new routes to cities already served from NCL simply dilutes revenue rather than building the overal regional market.

For a non MME example look at why BHX can't sustain transatlantic schedules. Basically no need since PAX will use LHR, MAN or transit via DUB.

Not sniping at MME, just putting forward a theory.


That is I believe absolutely the case. Not so much 20 years ago when we had a plethora of tour operators who could charter overseas based aircraft and carve out their own market (often by charging more for the convenience). These days it’s TUI or Ryanair or don’t bother. The other major players just aren’t interested in small airports at the moment.

[P330]

Looks like Ryanair are loading S24. Feels incomplete as May is empty but June to October populated.

As of this evening, no new routes, ALC on twice a week, same for PMI, CFU still once on a Saturday but no Faro loaded yet.

Has to be incomplete - hopefully.

You can see the schedule, but can’t make a booking…yet.

[Harold77]

I've had look on Ryanair website showing nothing after the timetable change so far.

Seems the Alicante flights are selling well January through to March judging by prices showing.

I think should know Summer 24 by end of the month.

I'm pretty sure at least two new routes. But is the delays to new aircraft deliveries affecting scheduling.

[highwideandugly]

It’s Alicante twice per week at moment…according to an other feed..

[P330]

I've had look on Ryanair website showing nothing after the timetable change so far.

Seems the Alicante flights are selling well January through to March judging by prices showing.

I think should know Summer 24 by end of the month.

I'm pretty sure at least two new routes. But is the delays to new aircraft deliveries affecting scheduling.

Website not showing anything, but the app is. Tonight, the app shows the same as yesterday with worryingly no Faro,

Alicante 2p/w Thu/Sun
Palma 2p/w Thu/Sun
Corfu 1p/w Sat

[JonnyH]

Website not showing anything, but the app is. Tonight, the app shows the same as yesterday with worryingly no Faro,

Alicante 2p/w Thu/Sun
Palma 2p/w Thu/Sun
Corfu 1p/w Sat

There isn’t any Faro showing either from NCL so could be an app issue.

[Harold77]

Ryanair tend to load routes by base. So routes from Tenerife base can be weeks after Palma base, Newcastle base one month Belfast base following month etc.

[P330]

Ryanair now appear to be on sale for S24 - fully bookable in the app.

Routes/schedules as outlined above.

[SWBKCB]

So is that with or wihout Faro?

[P330]

Without for now…..

[RA85684]

I reckon they just haven’t sorted Faro out yet, this can’t be the finalised schedule otherwise they’ve dropped FAO-MME/NCL and LBA. I find that very hard to believe. Hang tight I’m sure it’ll come up soon

[N707ZS]

I see no dates for Alicante in April and May.

[P330]

I think just peak Summer is loaded for now. Same for PMI.

[JonnyH]

Jet2 will have their first charter flight, to my knowledge, from Teeside next month. They have a charter to Dortmund for NUFC fans.

[Flying Hi]

Jet2 will have their first charter flight, to my knowledge, from Teeside next month. They have a charter to Dortmund for NUFC fans.
Be interesting to see where the aircraft generates from to run this charter. A NUFC flight not going from NCL?

[N707ZS]

You do realise not all NUFC fans live in Newcastle.

[Flying Hi]

You do realise not all NUFC fans live in Newcastle.
Erm yes. I live in West Mids now (sob:bored:) so should I expect the flight to go via BHX?
NCL is a Jet2 base so has existing infrastructure.

[P330]

It will be a Leeds aircraft running the Jet2 charter.

[Flying Hi]

It will be a Leeds aircraft running the Jet2 charter.
Ta.:)

[Grumpy1]

Newcastle Airport has been announced as "Airport of the Year", voted for by "airlines accross the globe". "Four new airlines, six additional based aircraft, 30 new routes and twelve new designations"........ Ouch!

[onion]

Newcastle Airport has been announced as "Airport of the Year", voted for by "airlines accross the globe". "Four new airlines, six additional based aircraft, 30 new routes and twelve new designations"........ Ouch!
Have you posted this on every airport thread on the forum?

They were the only UK airport nominated and this is the following criteria for voting.

'When voting opens, airlines can nominate up to five airports and destinations that they feel have provided exceptional marketing support over the past twelve months.'

Just for perspective.

Well done though to NCL.

[highwideandugly]

Wonder if Ben has noticed!

[Harold77]

Have you posted this on every airport thread on the forum?

They were the only UK airport nominated and this is the following criteria for voting.

'When voting opens, airlines can nominate up to five airports and destinations that they feel have provided exceptional marketing support over the past twelve months.'

Just for perspective.

Well done though to NCL.

He only ever posts on this Teesside thread, he doesn't have any other interaction on any other threads. Even his comments aren't looking at in a positive, always seems to be talking down rather than looking up. The way his comments are I'm pretty sure who it is.

The Awards that Teesside is up for is in The British Travel Awards, in which the awards evening is on the 28th November.

The category is: A66 : Best UK Airport for Leisure Travel
Bristol Airport
East Midlands
Exeter
Glasgow
Liverpool John Lennon
London City
London Gatwick
London Heathrow
London Luton
London Stansted
Teesside International Airport

[SWBKCB]

Lets face it, all these awards aren't worth the paper thwy are written on.

Hardly worth commenting upon - nice evening out though, I suppose.

[Harold77]

August CAA Stats.

Cargo 6 Tonnes
Aircraft Movements 2,245
Terminal Passengers 25,901

[Cautious Optimist]

I agree these awards are very flawed and without a single recognised awards body they are meaningless. Ben makes a fool of himself using it to take a dig at Newcastle instead of just enjoying the achievement. Obviously Teesside and Newcastle can't both be Airport of the Year and with the general anti-Teesside attitude on here people are going to lean more towards Newcastle as being the more justified recipient.

That said, I'm curious - which entity is considered the more prestigious? TTG or World Routes? And does Newcastle have any further nominations lined up like Teesside does and if not, at what point do multiple wins/nominations nullify Newcastle's claim to the title?

I'm told the Skytrax Awards are the Oscars of the travel industry and the one you really want to be winning.

[Grumpy1]

"Have you posted this on every airport thread on the forum?"
What a bizarre question?
Certainly agree that these rewards are meaningless which is why it becomes embarrassing when politicians and their supporters proclaim them at any airport as a measure of success.
The progress that NCL have summarised is interesting if true however although it is beyond me why this appears to make Harold uncomfortable.

[Grumpy1]

Cautious Optomist is spot on as usual. Camera of the year, Car of the year, Phone of the year, Insurance company of the year etc etc. Its all nonsense. The progress being claimed by NCL is surprising however, so can those who play with the numbers confirm it's true?
PS: Please NO movement's stats.

[onion]

Newcastle Airport has been announced as "Airport of the Year", voted for by "airlines accross the globe". "Four new airlines, six additional based aircraft, 30 new routes and twelve new designations"........ Ouch!

What a bizarre post for the Teesside forum!

[Harold77]

Why NO movements. They contribute to each airport finances all around the world. If you want to ditch a revenue stream then more fool you. So if you rule Movements out you rule out a performance measure.

Newcastle
Year Passenger Numbers
2018 5,332,238
2019 5,198,952
2020 1,061,146
2021 1,022,540
2022 4,127,035

Jan-August 2019 3,578,378
Jan-August 2023 3,239,027

So Newcastle is in its 4th year of being below pre covid levels. Whereas Teesside is two years on the trot above pre covid levels and growing.

[Cautious Optimist]

It would be impossible for us not to be above pre-Covid levels. Would we still be above pre-Covid levels if all the routes we have now had existed in 2019??

I think a more accurate way to view Newcastles fortunes is to note they have rarely topped the pre-2008 recession let alone Covid.

Given a large portion of their trade comes from our area, we should be preventing them from ever topping it as our business builds back up over the long term, without ever really hurting them.

[SWBKCB]

I see the green eyed monster was let out of it's cage last night!

It would be impossible for us not to be above pre-Covid levels. Would we still be above pre-Covid levels if all the routes we have now had existed in 2019??

I think a more accurate way to view Newcastles fortunes is to note they have rarely topped the pre-2008 recession let alone Covid.

Quite right - Teesside was on it's knee's pre-Covid. As I posted on the Newcastle thread yesterday, NCL hasn't yet passed the peak of 2007 but that is more down to the weak regional economy than airport performance - as the old saying goes, "London sneezes and the north-east catches a cold!"

If we are quoting pointless stats, maybe the drop in movements in August means MME is in a slump?

There's more interesting stuff in this months MME figures - particularly the RYR routes, looks a bit flat and in peak season all below the 95% average load factor that Ryanair allegedly look for across their system

[N707ZS]

Perhaps forget covid in the figures and compare to post Peel figures. Its been a good year all round but is the growth starting to stall.

[highwideandugly]

Other threads reporting £100m expansion’s announced for Leeds and Belfast airports.

Maybe confidence now returning to the aviation sector.If so, all airports will continue to expand..both movements and passenger figures?

SWBKCB…is right…in that the NE economy is the major player here.
There was only one way Teesside could go with the investment it’s had..and that was up !

See what next years holiday flights bring…

[P330]

Other threads reporting £100m expansion’s announced for Leeds and Belfast airports.

Maybe confidence now returning to the aviation sector.If so, all airports will continue to expand..both movements and passenger figures?

SWBKCB…is right…in that the NE economy is the major player here.
There was only one way Teesside could go with the investment it’s had..and that was up !

See what next years holiday flights bring…

You're right. In terms of passenger traffic, it seems to all rest on imminent announcements (if they come). Next year we will have one weekly Bourgas (downside) but we will have an extra Alicante in Jan - March (upside) so on balance, if everything else remains equal, we should be slightly up in 2024 year on year. But unless TUI or Ryanair announce anything new (or anyone else for that matter), 2024 looks probably fairly flat. Ryanair still loading, so hopefully something new lands and Faro comes back on line. Probably too late for TUI to announce anything now?

For non-holiday holiday flights, I think most routes have started and stopped in the last few years so unlikely to come back.

[N707ZS]

We might see more after Christmas as there is a mayoral election in May.

[Diff Tail Shim]

It would be impossible for us not to be above pre-Covid levels. Would we still be above pre-Covid levels if all the routes we have now had existed in 2019??

I think a more accurate way to view Newcastles fortunes is to note they have rarely topped the pre-2008 recession let alone Covid.

Given a large portion of their trade comes from our area, we should be preventing them from ever topping it as our business builds back up over the long term, without ever really hurting them.
NCL Is a major airport. MME is a back water in the middle of nowhere. Only Ben Houchien raping the UK tax payer has remotely made MME look presentable. I have an airside pass for both, do you?

[Gsm1]

Nice to see Teesside taking Leeds flights on Saturday 👍🏻

[jorvik]

Can understand Jet2’s refusal to sent anything to MME, last time they had 2 aircraft in for pre delivery checks they where in every social media post like they where setting up a base, no airline wants that, especially not when it’s for a blatant PR boost.

[HH6702]

Why NO movements. They contribute to each airport finances all around the world. If you want to ditch a revenue stream then more fool you. So if you rule Movements out you rule out a performance measure.

Newcastle
Year Passenger Numbers
2018 5,332,238
2019 5,198,952
2020 1,061,146
2021 1,022,540
2022 4,127,035

Jan-August 2019 3,578,378
Jan-August 2023 3,239,027

So Newcastle is in its 4th year of being below pre covid levels. Whereas Teesside is two years on the trot above pre covid levels and growing.

not really hard to do when you actually look at what MME pax were before covid.
come back again in 10 years to compare!

[Flying Hi]

Nice to see Teesside taking Leeds flights on Saturday 👍🏻
Did they or didnt they?
See post 2425

[SWBKCB]

Yes - two Ryanair

[Flying Hi]

Can see why Jet2 would use MAN to MME as Alternate. MAN has full Jet2 infrastructure in place to cope with such an event.

[P330]

MME and Ben making the most out of this morning’s extra flights. They both make reference to finally getting a direct flight to Malaga and asking Ryanair to make it permanent. Ben adds…”let’s talk”.

Social media fun or evidence that the new route to Malaga is not a done deal?

[SWBKCB]

How long to the next election?

[highwideandugly]

Bens PR and Facebook followers..borders sometimes on cult status?

However..slowly but surely it chips away🤔🤔🤔

Cost to local tax payers..for some reason doesn’t seem to matter in this vanity project?

[N707ZS]

MME and Ben making the most out of this morning’s extra flights. They both make reference to finally getting a direct flight to Malaga and asking Ryanair to make it permanent. Ben adds…”let’s talk”.

Social media fun or evidence that the new route to Malaga is not a done deal?
He needs the boot if its not on the list of new routes starting soon.

They are making a big thing about Dalaman starting but keeping quiet that they have scrapped the popular Antalya.

[P330]

Unless it’s a glitch in the app, it looks like our KLM flights change numbering from next summer to KL962, 964 and 966 outbound.

This would run on from the usual Newcastle sequence of KL952 etc….

[oldart]

With reference to Willis Asset Management, does anyone have info on whether their new hangers are going ahead. It all seems to have gone quiet.

[N707ZS]

Does anyone fancy two large hangars.
The 27,000sq ft building that will make a huge difference to North East airport (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/the-27-000sq-ft-building-that-will-make-a-huge-difference-to-north-east-airport/ar-AA1iPWgy?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=b26ac5612c7c4990d7d915bb4f79ab1c&ei=13)

[P330]

Ryanair now on sale for the full summer, including April and May.

Still no Faro. Or new routes.

[tigertanaka]

You can’t book Newcastle or Leeds to Faro either so let’s not panic yet. Ryanair are notoriously hard bargainers so presumably they are holding out for something?

[Harold77]

Ryanair comprehensive Summer programme isn't usually fully completed until early December. But is known to add the odd route or two as the months roll on.

[Flying Hi]

Ryanair now on sale for the full summer, including April and May.

Still no Faro. Or new routes.
How did the Faro loadfactors stack up for this year?

[tigertanaka]

How did the Faro loadfactors stack up for this year?

I reckon 163.5 per flight this year (Mar-Aug) compared to 152.7 in the same period last year. Based on a 189 seat plane that is 86.5% load factor. This is less than Alicante (also twice a week but year round) and Corfu (which has a shorter season) but more than Parma (which has TUI also flying the route). So loads are probably OK - but as ever it's the yield that counts.

[highwideandugly]

Harold..anymore news on further increases in flights as forecast next year, apart from Alicante?

Also..anyone know when the financial figures are out? (Yes..I know I’ve asked before)…but very quiet on that front?

[Harold77]

I'm surprised provisional results haven't been released yet as was September and July the previous couple of years.
This leads me to think that results are going to be released around the time of the new routes announcement.
So there could be a fair few announcements around that period about financials, routes, hangars, cargo etc.

[SWBKCB]

Yes - six months till the election.

[MARKEYD]

TUI seem to have taken the axe to Dalaman for next summer by taking out at least 4 weeks to the programme mid season

[jorvik]

Well FAO is now on sale from both NCL and LBA, nothing yet for MME, could just be a delayed upload with it being non based flying

[P330]

TUI seem to have taken the axe to Dalaman for next summer by taking out at least 4 weeks to the programme mid season

Yes, now off sale 25th June, 2nd, 9th, and 16th July. Last flight 17th September which is also earlier than the equivalent Antalya this year (which I think ran to the end of the month).

Hopefully things come good with Faro (and potentially others) as without the positive updates, 2024 is looking to be leaner than 2023 based on what is currently on offer.

[SWBKCB]

Yes, now off sale 25th June, 2nd, 9th, and 16th July.

An odd move - maybe switched to a Scottish airport for their school holidays.

[FlyMME]

Gone past Ben's previous comments of September / October for new routes - should we be concerned?

[P330]

Gone past Ben's previous comments of September / October for new routes - should we be concerned?

Who knows? But the longer the silence (and the lack of Faro returning) goes on, the more concerning it is. I’m hopeful it’s all just timing and news is inbound…..but…..

[N707ZS]

Minus 4 weeks of Dalaman, mid week Burgas so far. And I forgot Antalya.

[highwideandugly]

All eyes on Bens Facebook page !

He and his followers have their fingers on the pulse!

[Harold77]

The last couple of years it has usually been second week of November when routes have been fully released.

[GAXLN]

An odd move - maybe switched to a Scottish airport for their school holidays.

Yes, Scottish school holidays will give a much better return for TUI those weeks.

[highwideandugly]

Wonder if Ben adds the sheep runway movements on to the figures!😀

[N707ZS]

Obviously not on the side with the new fence. They must be his supporters having a meeting.

[Harold77]

I'm wondering if people are overlooking something. Something that doesn't add up in the normal sense, but is glaringly obvious when you fit the jigsaw together. We shall find out soon enough.

It is only that this past week where I have found the smoking gun which fits all the pieces together. Have I found the red herring or blue marlin or is it a long curve ball out of the rough on the 4th green will be the end result. We will soon find out.


On other notes it is nice but sad in a way to see the easyJets coming in on their final ever flights. With the 319 fleet being fully disposed of I wonder how many more of the fleet we will see over the coming few years.

[P330]

I'm wondering if people are overlooking something. Something that doesn't add up in the normal sense, but is glaringly obvious when you fit the jigsaw together. We shall find out soon enough.

It is only that this past week where I have found the smoking gun which fits all the pieces together. Have I found the red herring or blue marlin or is it a long curve ball out of the rough on the 4th green will be the end result. We will soon find out.


On other notes it is nice but sad in a way to see the easyJets coming in on their final ever flights. With the 319 fleet being fully disposed of I wonder how many more of the fleet we will see over the coming few years.

Well that is cryptically interesting. Let’s see then if the next week reveals any positive or negative news that enlightens us all. Do come back and share - I value the insight!

On EasyJet, the ramp must be getting busy as I’m lead to believe the 5th one arrives on Saturday - TBC.

[N707ZS]

Lets hope they have not got Easyjet to fly to Alicante and Palma competing against Ryanair. The Easy solution for the parking would be to fence off part of the old 19 runway on the Southside but for some reason they don't want to do that.

[JonnyH]

Jet2 will have their first charter flight, to my knowledge, from Teeside next month. They have a charter to Dortmund for NUFC fans.

This didn’t sell well and has apparently been cancelled. It was sold through a third party at £599 per ticket… so no wonder!

[highwideandugly]

That’s funny! Wonder if Ben will get on his Facebook page and tell us all! He was pretty upbeat about the bragging rights when announced!

[01475]

This didn’t sell well and has apparently been cancelled. It was sold through a third party at £599 per ticket… so no wonder!

!!! How much would such a flight usually cost? (I lack the football fixtures knowledge to go and try and find one to check!)

[JonnyH]

!!! How much would such a flight usually cost? (I lack the football fixtures knowledge to go and try and find one to check!)

There is charters to Dusseldorf rather than Dortmund from NCL at around £350. Other options either indirect, from NCL, or direct from other UK airports were anywhere between £200 and £400.

It was never going to sell out at that pricing.

[Flying Hi]

There is charters to Dusseldorf rather than Dortmund from NCL at around £350. Other options either indirect, from NCL, or direct from other UK airports were anywhere between £200 and £400.

It was never going to sell out at that pricing.
Looks like the MME pricing was Death Wish.

[highwideandugly]

Quoting Harold’s jigsaw…how about a 2 aircraft Easy Jet base?

Crew training ,parting out and now a base?

Ben is upbeat this morning regarding delivering his promises…remember his LCC desire?

Anyway airport closed due power failure…infrastructure will need some worka,

[P330]

I'll always be nervous until something is announced, but your suggestion Highwide is a thought I have had myself.

I agree that one of the reasons we only have some routes on sale next year is that a based aircraft is about to be announced. If that is the case, I would expect it to be Ryanair.

Let's see....presumably this is the week we find out.

[ATNotts]

I read this thread as an outsider looking in and admire any mayor that really raises to profile of their region.

However I really do struggle to understand the case for a based airline operation such as is being wished for, certainly in 2024.

Take Easyjet; any based operation would surely be directed towards the IT arm of the business. Their expansion next summer is BHX and the flights have been on the market for months now. Why would they come late to the party at MME with a base operation? In MME's favour is that there is no competing Company base in the region, so perhaps if it were to happen it could be more realistically be S2025.

Ryanair has an existing, developing base at NCL, so why would they want to dilute the regional market and potentially reduce their yield at NCL? At to that O'Leary is whinging about late deliveries from Boeing making expansion in 2024 even more of a challenge.

None of that is to say that there won't be growth at MME next summer, I'm sure there will be, but not on the scale that 'fan boys' are wishing for.

I'm not into 'hat eating', but if I am wide of the mark I will be delighted, and will consume copious quantities of humble pie.

[highwideandugly]

Ryanair and Jet 2 at both Leeds and Newcastle.

Easy no real presence at either. So fills a nice void?

No one else other than Wizz?

[SouthernAlliance]

Would be amazed if easyJet even gave MME a second thought as far as a base is concerned!

[FlyMME]

I read this thread as an outsider looking in and admire any mayor that really raises to profile of their region.

However I really do struggle to understand the case for a based airline operation such as is being wished for, certainly in 2024.

Take Easyjet; any based operation would surely be directed towards the IT arm of the business. Their expansion next summer is BHX and the flights have been on the market for months now. Why would they come late to the party at MME with a base operation? In MME's favour is that there is no competing Company base in the region, so perhaps if it were to happen it could be more realistically be S2025.

Ryanair has an existing, developing base at NCL, so why would they want to dilute the regional market and potentially reduce their yield at NCL? At to that O'Leary is whinging about late deliveries from Boeing making expansion in 2024 even more of a challenge.

None of that is to say that there won't be growth at MME next summer, I'm sure there will be, but not on the scale that 'fan boys' are wishing for.

I'm not into 'hat eating', but if I am wide of the mark I will be delighted, and will consume copious quantities of humble pie.

Pretty hard to argue with any of that to be fair - think the best we can hope for is a couple of extra Ryanair routes next summer unless there are any massive surprises.

[Cautious Optimist]

Mayor teasing some big announcement today, not necessarily airport but could be

[ATNotts]

Pretty hard to argue with any of that to be fair - think the best we can hope for is a couple of extra Ryanair routes next summer unless there are any massive surprises.
Most likely since Ryanair don't have an IT division to feed.

I don't think anyone should wish for Wizz seeing how they royally shat on Donaster and Cardiff. I reckon if they made an approach I'd double the fees to keep them out!!

[N707ZS]

Just a new steelworks at Redcar in the mayors diary today.

[highwideandugly]

Oh well..it’s off to Alicante again guys!

BTW.. what has happening/happened to Faro…any update?

[ted320]

In my opinion, its not worth the time, money, or effort spent for any airline to base for a summer season. The huge cost of opening the base, recruting crew etc for 6 months of the year? Why bother? Plus there is no supporting services at MME such as catering/cleaning.

[N707ZS]

In my opinion, its not worth the time, money, or effort spent for any airline to base for a summer season. The huge cost of opening the base, recruiting crew etc for 6 months of the year? Why bother? Plus there is no supporting services at MME such as catering/cleaning.
Why only summer season. We do like to escape the grim north in the other six months.

[SWBKCB]

I agree wth TED320 that a base is unlikely given the investment involved. RYR have gone for the low hanging fruit but even so based on tigertanka's post 2441 they aren't achieving the load factors that RYR averaged in September. (yes, it;s not all about load factors...)

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-reports-strong-half-year-profits-of-e2-18bndue-to-record-summer-trafficfull-year-pat-of-e10-per-pax-likely-e400m-div-declared/

[SWBKCB]

Why only summer season. We do like to escape the grim north in the other six months.

Cos airlines like to make profits! :ok:

[Markushillman]

In my opinion, its not worth the time, money, or effort spent for any airline to base for a summer season. The huge cost of opening the base, recruting crew etc for 6 months of the year? Why bother? Plus there is no supporting services at MME such as catering/cleaning.

I mean TUI have done it successfully for many years now at NWI and other places using a 3rd party airline and local cabin crew. But hey what do they know.

[HH6702]

They have just added
ALC 2x weekly up the road

[P330]

BTW.. what has happening/happened to Faro…any update?

Still nothing. It remains on the drop down list option for routes, but no flights on sale going forward. On the FR thread, confirmation that 10% of next summer still to be released as FR unclear on what aircraft they will have due to delivery delays. That *could* be an explanation. It also contradicts the likelihood of a base aircraft coming as another theory as to why Faro (and other new routes) have not materialised.

Still no news on Harold's jigsaw either.....any more insight Harold?

[Grumpy1]

Still no news on Harold's jigsaw either.....any more insight Harold?
Think Harold has realised what the rest of the Tees Valley commerce and industry has worked out. Mr Gove will apparently not publish the long overdue mayoral corruption report so most have drawn conclusions as to its content.
We are perhaps awaiting a good day to release the report?

[SWBKCB]

I mean TUI have done it successfully for many years now at NWI and other places using a 3rd party airline and local cabin crew. But hey what do they know.

Good point well made, but can't think of anybody else taking this approach - certainly not the LCC's. If TUI continue with the model you'd expect to see a slow move from non based flying operating W's into MME before a transition to a MME based unit which also does some W's out. We would seem to be some time away from that for MME.

And apologies in advance for thread drift, but what's happening next year without Sunwing's - I thought I'd read that Aberdeen had been dropped but can't find it now?

[Cautious Optimist]

They're starting an ACMI operator in partnership with Enter Air called Fly4 Airlines with ex TUI B738s on the Irish register according to Jethros. They've also sent their spare capacity to Sunwing for this winter so still ongoing for now

[Harold77]

Still nothing. It remains on the drop down list option for routes, but no flights on sale going forward. On the FR thread, confirmation that 10% of next summer still to be released as FR unclear on what aircraft they will have due to delivery delays. That *could* be an explanation. It also contradicts the likelihood of a base aircraft coming as another theory as to why Faro (and other new routes) have not materialised.

Still no news on Harold's jigsaw either.....any more insight Harold?

Seems everyone expects news instantly.

I also said that delays to new aircraft deliveries was having an effect on scheduling.

[Harold77]

Still no news on Harold's jigsaw either.....any more insight Harold?
Think Harold has realised what the rest of the Tees Valley commerce and industry has worked out. Mr Gove will apparently not publish the long overdue mayoral corruption report so most have drawn conclusions as to its content.
We are perhaps awaiting a good day to release the report?

Wow. What a surprise of something like this from you. Do you ever have anything positive to say about Teesside. Going off previous posts it doesn't seem you have.

[Grumpy1]

My appologies Harold. I know that you are very sensitive when it comes to the mayor but you did make up one of your posts containing riddles and mentioned a "glaringly obvious smoking gun" which was an invitation to guess at what you were getting at. I thought I had cracked it but perhaps you would clarify what you were reporting so we dont have to guess. Incidentaly, the corruption enquiry was completed some time ago but even the press have not been shown the report so it's a legitimise question, most certainly not a criticism of the region.

[onion]

Grumpy, I can't find anything to suggest the inquiry has finished? Normally these things take a while. Also once they are done they are often leaked in advance too.
Can you point to where you have found out it has been completed please.

[Harold77]

My appologies Harold. I know that you are very sensitive when it comes to the mayor but you did make up one of your posts containing riddles and mentioned a "glaringly obvious smoking gun" which was an invitation to guess at what you were getting at. I thought I had cracked it but perhaps you would clarify what you were reporting so we dont have to guess. Incidentaly, the corruption enquiry was completed some time ago but even the press have not been shown the report so it's a legitimise question, most certainly not a criticism of the region.

What are you on about sensitive when it comes to the Mayor?
Please stop making false statements.

Where have I made something up.

You want to know everything yesterday instead of waiting for things to be announced in course of time.

[highwideandugly]

Not sure all news (adverse) re the airport gets through these days for whatever reason🤔

I thought more would have been made of a complete airfield closure for many hours due a power failure a couple of days ago?

Or maybe sheep invading the airfield and causing a few small delays..is the wool being pulled over our eyes😀

[Harold77]

It has been reported in the local newspapers.

[SWBKCB]

It has been reported in the local newspapers.

Yes, the power cut made both the Gazette and the Echo

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/23904571.teesside-airport-closed-power-cut-hits-control-tower/

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-airport-hit-power-cut-28053350

[HH6702]

TUI summer 2025 goes on sale today if nothing new then I say it doesn’t look good for any new routes for the airport

[AVGEEK7812]

TUI summer 2025 goes on sale today if nothing new then I say it doesn’t look good for any new routes for the airport

I wouldnt say that now. TUI usually update there schedule later on as well for next summer.

Its very early to rule out new routes for S25

[P330]

TUI summer 2025 goes on sale today if nothing new then I say it doesn’t look good for any new routes for the airport

A repeat of S24 for now, 2 x PMI and 1 x DLM

[N707ZS]

After two years of Southside road building we thought the Battle HQ building was safe as it wasn't in the path of the new road. Today sadly there is just a patch of brown earth. Perhaps it didn't blend in with the new tin shed.
Middleton St. George(2) Airfield Battle HQ – Subterranea Britannica (subbrit.org.uk) (https://www.subbrit.org.uk/sites/middleton-st-george-2-airfield-battle-hq/)

If anyone can see a plan with it removed or being described as being removed I would be interested. It should have been preserved.

[Harold77]

September CAA stats

Terminal Passengers 27,323
Aircraft Movements 1,839
Cargo 10 Tonnes

[Grumpy1]

Another report of mayoral mischief in the FT this week but of interest to us, the article suggests that the Corruption Report is to be released this month. I suspect that potential investors in the region and the airport are keeping a close eye on this so hopefully there will be some resolution soon.

[N707ZS]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1800x1200/g_dkna_l_159_tia_10_11_23_rb_3d0d7ebea8fb230ccbc09beb0b90b85 706eb4af8.jpg
The last two 159s haven't come online as yet. This is the one off colour scheme of the six in use. Others are all grey.

[Harold77]

Fairly sure the last two have had a flight since arriving. Might just be G awaiting first flight.