Teesside-2

[southside bobby]

Teesside Airport made a net loss of £2.6m in the last twelve months.The Mayor says two years of schedule even so.

However the Chair of Tees Valley Combined Authority`s overview & scrutiny committee has concerns about transparency surrounding the financial position of the airport & other arrangements.

[N707ZS]

That's good progress compared to previous years.

[southside bobby]

Evidently... just the overview/scrutiny & transparency issues then.

[Back at NH]

I believe the £2.6 million loss is for the year ending March 2020.

[SWBKCB]

It is - Financial year 2019/20.

SSB will be interested to note that Stobart don't get a mention in the update. The last public comment I can find from a Stobart representative was in February at the launch of Eastern's Alicante flight - mind, you need sharp elbows to beat the Mayor to a microphone! :ok:

[Robert-Ryan]

Take with a pinch of salt but I heard the Stobart logo above the terminal doors has been painted out and the Jet Centre are due yet another rebrand, they've changed their radio callsign from Jet Centre to Aviator after just five minutes, read into that what you will

[southside bobby]

Tis not the public commentary that would appear interesting but perhaps the behind the scenes muddling with all involved parties...

Not too sure your Mayor is the only one with "sharp elbows" in the relationships as no doubt you are aware.:ok:

[tigertanaka]

October CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 2,101 - down 84% v prior year (by comparison, Sep was 3,199 & Aug was 2,529)

Aberdeen: 846 (370 in Sep & 369 in Aug)
Amsterdam: 241 (839 in Sep & 1,053 in Aug)
Belfast City: 221 (395 in Sep & 368 in Aug)
London Heathrow: 241 (294 in Sep)
Newquay: 157 (375 in Sep & 630 in Aug)
Southampton: 165 (135 in Sep)

I reckon this makes the loads on the flights as follows:

Aberdeen: 10.4 pax per flight in October (11.8 in Sep, 8.8 in Aug & 6.3 in Jul)
Amsterdam: 17.9 in Oct (19.1 in Sep & 21.9 in Aug)
Belfast City: 5.0 in Oct (9.0 in Sep, 9.7 in Aug & 10.4 in Jul)
London Heathrow: 6.3 in Oct (12.5 in Sep - LCY was 4.1 in August & 5.8 in Jul)
Newquay: 8.7 in Oct (18.8 on Sep, 28.7 in Aug & 17.1 in Jul)
Southampton: 4.2 in Oct (also 4.2 in Sep)

Overall less passengers versus September mainly due to AMS being pulled early in the month and no JER seasonal flight in October. However things are clearly really tough and there appears little demand for domestic routes right now. Just to put the overall numbers into context, NCL was down 88% in October with LBA down 89% YOY.

[LTNman]

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18908651.military-planes-teesside-airport/

[N707ZS]

The mayor turned up for a photo as usual. Could do with buying some more cargo kit to replace the big lifter given away by Peel to Doncaster, current kit cannot reach the rear hold door on the A330.

[oldart]

I hope the Mayor reads this, if we are going to encourage freight through the airport, the big lifter is a definite requirement.

[N707ZS]

The rest of the kit Trigger would be proud of.

As I said the other day with the snow kit the airport needs investment and on the whole ground equipment side of things. Hopefully it will happen.

[N707ZS]

Mayor has been in the news discovering the mothballed part of the terminal.

[SWBKCB]

He doesn't lack ambition (and deep pockets). Mayor seems to have forgotten that TUI don't start until 2022.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18912917.behind-scenes-teesside-airport-details-major-refurbishment-revealed/

[LTNman]

More photos of the closed off sections of the terminal
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18912848.old-parts-teesside-airport-havent-seen-years/

[N707ZS]

I see the first comment in the Echo is whinging about the £6 departure payment, if this goes we will possibly be back to the locked down terminal with the green gates active again and increase in car park fees. They are going to have to make money somehow.

[oldart]

I just happened to be listening to Smooth Radio and surprise, surprise, there was an advert for the Eastern Air flight to LHR. It's a start but more adverts should entice people to have a look at the MME website to find out what routes are going to operate. By the way, the £6 departure payment, means just one pint of beer less.

[SWBKCB]

Update on Eastern's current schedule from the Teesside Airport movements website

Teesside Airport Movements (http://www.dtvmovements.co.uk/Info/Eastern_Airways2.htm)

[P330]

You do wonder if Eastern are re-trenching and that was the reason for Loganair. Also, will Alicante be back if Ryanair start it?

Be interesting to see what really happens with Eastern’s movements come Spring....

[N707ZS]

Airport is spending thousands resurfacing the derelict stand 13 where one of the clubs used to park and the alpha taxiway, must be something in the plans.

[onion]

On an advertisement note, I ve just had a YouTube advert for Loganair at MME!

[Get me some traffic]

At last!! Adverts for MME have always been few and far between.

[oldart]

onion

They are also advertising on one of the flight radar sites along with pricing for each route.

[P330]

Has anyone heard anything official about what Eastern’s plans are for next year.

Feels very much like guesswork and hope that all routes will return but I have not seen any official announcements or communications from them or the airport. What is happening with London? City and Heathrow? Dublin and Cardiff? The summer runs to Spain?

[SWBKCB]

No official announcements, only what is at post 19 above.

[P330]

Thanks.

The only thing I’ve been able to clear up is that London City won’t return as Eastern see Heathrow as the replacement. I guess most of us assumed that anyway.

[Robert-Ryan]

So that's advertising on two platforms for one carrier? Trouble with advertising is it needs to be widespread and rammed down your throat

[onion]

I know YouTube is tailored but that will hit much more than a flight radar site, predominantly viewed by enthusiasts. At least You tube has the ability to reach large audiences.
Robert Ryan it may be only two platforms that 'we' know of at the moment. Better than none!

Eastern will stay at LHR while they can, probably moving back to LCY when they lose access to the slots.

Its anyones guess with the other routes.

With the competition from Loganair Easterns original deal will probably be over unless Logan are getting the same deal!

[N707ZS]

The airport should be aviation related industry. The Southside had an enforcement for aviation related industry in the planning, presume Ben will bulldoze through that.

[SWBKCB]

I think it was only a percentage for aviation related activities. Don't want to be rude, but the southside of MME really is the back end of beyond. Is it really the best place for a substantial office development?

Also, as many govt. depts have banned domestic air travel it would look a bit odd if the Treasury were regulalry using the LHR flights to get to London, so that isn't really an advantage.

[onion]

Or it could be the ideal place.
Not far from Middlesbrough, Darlington, Stockton etc, not to mention the top of North Yorkshire too, A66 and the A1. Has a rail line running past, any building would be more than likely leased so public money used to fund a public enterprise.
Yes the government does prefer higher car, pool car or rail travel over flying but there are situation where flying is permitted and having the airport there will save on taxis if it was else where.

The airport has a very strong argument for the new office.
Having said that their will be plus points for having it in Middlesbrough, Darlington or else where.

[oldart]

Does anyone know how far the South side development has got, and also is the new road in place?

[Hipennine]

Southside Offices - has it escaped everyone that the Covid pandemic has rapidly and very significantly impacted on the demand for office space? Working from home is here to stay, and no serious private developer is now interested in offices.

[N707ZS]

oldart

They built a portacabin office, built a new eight foot fence and drove a couple of diggers around. The mayor was seen using one of course. No sign of the new road from the A67.

[onion]

Hipennine

You know this for sure then?
Yes working from home will be encouraged more but there is still the need for office space. Productivity is higher in the office overall in my line of work due to better opportunities for collaboration.
I know government are more interested in new builds so any move out of London will highly likely be into a new build where ever it is. Just look at the new regional centres in HMRC - some of the old offices had adequate space to become the regional centres but HMRC chose to have built band new facilities and the lease them.
So if they want it built a private developer will build it.

[GrahamK]

Twitter post from the airport suggests Eastern will be flying Belfast City and London Heathrow only.
Press release from The Northern Echo suggests nobody will fly MME-ABZ either

2021 Destinations from Teesside (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18921895.full-list-destinations-teesside-airport-summer-2021/)

[SWBKCB]

Maybe they are suggesting ABZ isn't a holiday destination? SOU not mentioned either.

[Alteagod]

As the aircraft seems to do SOU-BHD-MME and V.V. maybe this might become a thru service

[N707ZS]

I notice comments are banned from the rag on that article.

[highwideandugly]

I think that Northern Echo advert is politically incorrect...and the mayor is scraping the barrel.

Maybe he needs a better PR company in!

[SWBKCB]

To try and be fair, the Echo was directly quoting the Mayor's comments and we all know he is very much a political animal, and his comments have to be treated as such.

Also, I'm sure a company in the same group as the Echo is responsible for some of the airports advertising.

[oldart]

I thought that the idea for the South side was to have at least some aircraft based industry. Aircraft maintenance, freight and maybe re-sprays. Office space might not be required now but in the future it might be wanted. Obviously a new link road is a priority which should give access to the A66/A19 and A1M.

[onion]

The original plans 20 years ago were for aviation related units but that changed under Peel so I wouldn't like to say exactly what they are now.
The road access will go in, there has been a long running planning dispute but the last I heard the Southside will be connected directly with the A67. The link to the A66 is already there and has been for 15 years or so.

[SWBKCB]

The percentage of aviation related activity in the planning permission has been reduced over the years - aviation related likely to be some sort of logistics? Moving TNT seems like an obvious opportunity. Didn't realise Amazons MME1 was soo near to the airport! And yes, the link road is to the A67.

I've not seen any mention of where exactly at the airport any Treasury offices would go - plenty of space northside?

[N707ZS]

If there's not 3 Amazon close to the airport there soon will be. The concern about offices is they are very similar to houses, could the offices eventually be built on the whole airfield.

[SWBKCB]

Demand? Location? To be honest other than the mayor offering a cheap deal, can't understand why anybody would want to build offices on that site.

[davidjohnson6]

N707ZS

Do you have a link to some photos of the offices being built ?

[SWBKCB]

There aren't any. The Tees Valley Combined Authority have put forward a proposal for the northern offices for the Treasury to be located on the airport, but nothing has been decided.

[N707ZS]

davidjohnson6 read post 36.

[OMGitsDAVE]

The mayor has posted a new video walkthrough of the terminal - looks quite good! It's available via his Facebook page - Ben Houchen Tees Valley Mayor.

[SWBKCB]

From the Northern EchoWork is under way on a £3million overhaul of Teesside Airport’s check-in and security areas

[P330]

Latest from KLM is a once a day return from 12th Feb through to the end of the winter timetable.

Return to 3 flights a day at the end of March (beginning of summer timetable).

[LTNman]

https://youtu.be/OyBkmmNOErA

[N707ZS]

There must be something else in the pot flight wise to fill in the staff rota.

[SKOJB]

P330

Would suggest x3 daily from March is a tad optimistic!

[Cautious Optimist]

Definitely, I would have thought it only appears as such because that's the default template, and closer to the time it will be revised back down to once daily. The best we can hope for this side of October is twice daily.

The performance of Amsterdam from 2022 onwards will reflect whether or not the suspicion of online meetings and in-general reduced business trips being a permanent side-effect are well founded or not.

[GrahamK]

KLM now resuming 1st March at the earliest

[mmeman]

Eastern website reporting Heathrow suspended till 31st Jan, but Belfast City 'terminated' from 11th January.

[SKOJB]

Fear for Eastern in the weeks and months ahead. To me they don’t seem to have a brand or fleet mix that is sustainable and Loganair probably sense this with the duplication of routes announced recently out of MME. With BE mk2 muted to be reborn, this could also have a significant impact on their future viability

[highwideandugly]

It was always quicksand and I fear...it won’t be the end as the mayor is throwing good money after bad?

Most sensible and unbiased folks on here..we’re always sceptical.

However..housing estate,government offices and other genuine revenue incomes,Can and will save the area.

[Robert-Ryan]

Loganair competing on Heathrow from 28th Feb, twice daily weekdays, 1x daily Sundays.

[GrahamK]

2021 looking to be a very exciting year for MME! :ok:

[P330]

Robert-Ryan

All pointing to my earlier thoughts here that something is going on. I think Loganair are here to replace Eastern.

[highwideandugly]

Yep and once replaced will retrench to other airports?

[SWBKCB]

SKOJB

I wish I had a pound for every time the demise of Eastern had been predicted...

Do LM have any interline agreements at Heathrow?

[P330]

What I am unsure of is:

Whether LM are smelling blood and the mayor just wants as many airlines and routes as possible...

Or....

The airport are worried or unhappy with Eastern and are actively getting an alternative in place to keep the plans on track.

[southside bobby]

Hidden factor concerning the machinations at Teesside = Stobart.

[SWBKCB]

Really? I was under the impression they had little involvement?

[SWBKCB]

southside bobby

Really? I was under the impression that Stobart had little involvement at MME?

[VentureGo]

SKOJB

Do LM have any interline agreements at Heathrow?

According to their Wikipedia page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loganair#Codeshare_agreements :

Loganair have:Codeshare Agreements with :
British Airways
Blue Island
KLM

and Interline Agreements with:
Emirates
Qatar
Turkish
United
Air France
Wilderoe

Not sure if these would be valid on Teesside to Heathrow for onward connections/ticketing etc...but may be an advantage for increaed loads and connectivity.
Twice daily depending on times may also attract business travel.

ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loganair#Codeshare_agreements

[SWBKCB]

Would certainly give them a big advantage over Eastern.

[JSCL]

VentureGo

LM IOM-LHR is bootable via BA so I suggest other routes may be too.

[Albert Hall]

Hidden factor concerning the machinations at Teesside = Stobart.

I thought they were no longer involved at MME?

[N707ZS]

Never been officially quoted anywhere, just backroom talk.

[LGS6753]

My understanding (which may be wrong) is that codeshare agreements are specific to certain routes, and are not between the entire networks of two carriers.

[mmeman]

Looks like the Premier Holiday packages to Jersey are using the Loganair scheduled flights on a Saturday, with Airways Holidays still using the Eastern charter flight.

[N707ZS]

I have just noticed the Eastern ERJ 145 clocked up a time on flightradar 24 of 37 minutes on LHR to MME, is that anywhere near the old Viscount record.

[Get me some traffic]

Nah!! ISTR the record stands at 27 mins in a Viscount on Boxing Day. BMA330 will be able to tell you the exact time and date.

[SKOJB]

Termination is not suspension, someone is telling porky pies!

[SWBKCB]

Not necessarily. The airport spokesman said that flights would restarting, no mention of who would be flying them.

[N707ZS]

Wait a bit Ben's new friends at Loganair will surely fill the gap. Must be a hard route to compete on against Easyjet at Newcastle.

[SWBKCB]

Loganair have already announced BHD from 01 Feb.

[N707ZS]

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

[highwideandugly]

Meanwhile..the money fund (egg timer )is (dripping)..ticking...who exactly is paying for all of this?

Oh yes I remember..the good folk of Teesside....oh how that money could have been better used..rather than paying Eastern to fly one passenger to Belfast...!

[Cautious Optimist]

People complain when the airport is suffering and now complain when it is doing well, no pleasing some people! Goes back to a point I've made for years now...that nothing is good enough, "if you give a mouse a cookie..."

[SWBKCB]

highwideandugly

Just a reminder that the airport is being funded out of the TVCA Investment Fund, which comes from central govt, so national taxes rather than local council tax.

Don't think anybody is complaining that the airport is doing well, just querying the perceived value for money (cos there is no transparency).

[highwideandugly]

CO...I appreciate your sentiments as you know..however you state “when the airport is doing well”?

Less flights,less passengers,less freight and let’s face it..dodgy airlines! ..than ever.

A money tree and ego which as I have often said,could do so much more for this deprived area. Teesside needs jobs,social welfare and general transport infrastructure,so much more than this.

[Cautious Optimist]

Highwide, it sounds to me like you're deliberately overlooking suspended services, or at least if you're not you're very behind the times!

[SWBKCB]

Beafer

This would seem to say a lot about the airports current relationship with Eastern. If it was just a case of mistake on the Eastern website, you'd just have a word and get them to change it - not have a spokesman put out a contradictory statement...

[10 DME ARC]

Airport doing well!I don't think paying airlines to flying routes for a small amount of pax's is 'well'! As I have said earlier last year a neighbour travelled to SOU with EZE, she was only pax in airport and then only pax on flight!
This is not a time when traditional route building works! Surely the funds should be kept for when things improve? If the money runs out before the routes establish it will all be waisted!! Keep the airport turning over and keep funds for next summer or even winter season!

[oldart]

10 DME ARC
Are you saying that some of the funds shouldn't be used to improve amenities at MME. This is being done at the moment ready for an upturn in flights and passengers, or are you saying this won't happen either?

[SWBKCB]

I think the question is more around the scale of the investment in the improvements in relation to the level of flights, and how that helps the airport move back into profit (and the wider question of whether its the best way of spending taxpayers money on Teesside)

[Jamesair1]

I would say it is essential to spend money on improvements to the airport facilities during a downturn. When the good times eventually return there will be a better and smarter airport to welcome future airlines, visitors and residents.

[10 DME ARC]

I have no problems in updating facilities, what I was getting at was believing that the airport was 'doing well' by the amount of subsidised flights! Especially in current times!

[oldart]

I suppose you could say a lot of business's being kept alive with government subsidies are doing well, I believe there are quite a few airlines out who think they are doing well to stay in business with help from the government. Hopefully all airports will come out of this situation well enough to trade normally.

[tigertanaka]

November CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 1,008 - down 91% v prior year reflecting huge scale back of operations after the first week of the month.

Aberdeen: 593
Belfast City: 257
London Heathrow: 51
Newquay: 8
Southampton: 7

Plus charters

Norwich: 70
Alesund: 24

(One point is that ABZ report 183 pax on the MME route)

I reckon this makes the loads on the flights as follows:

Aberdeen: 11.8 pax per flight in November (10.4 in Oct, 11.8 in Sep, 8.8 in Aug & 6.3 in Jul)
Belfast City: 13.5 in Nov (5.0 in Oct, 9.0 in Sep, 9.7 in Aug & 10.4 in Jul)
London Heathrow: 5.7 in Nov (6.3 in Oct, 12.5 in Sep - LCY was 4.1 in August & 5.8 in Jul)
Newquay: 4.0 in Nov (8.7 in Oct, 18.8 on Sep, 28.7 in Aug & 17.1 in Jul)
Southampton: 1.0 in Nov (4.2 in Oct, 4.2 in Sep)

Not much to say really. Loads on Belfast look OK, Aberdeen stable, Heathrow still poor. I think there were 7 MME<>SOU flights in November so that is an average of 1 person per flight...

[Beafer]

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/airport-on-track-pandemic-poses-19592677

[SWBKCB]

A lot seems to depend on developing the southside.

[AirportPlanner1]

Given the circumstances arguably the NQY route did quite well too and is a keeper overall, although technically it was two sectors most or all of those 8 passengers would have been on the inbound after Half Term I’d imagine.

[N707ZS]

With the growing number of Amazon warehouses, the possibility of a freeport there seems to be no desire for cargo at Teesside airport. Not even the KLM when operating brought in cargo. Go back to the post Peel years when we had one or occasionally two TNT aircraft further back BMA freight in the pax flight holds and add hoc freight charters up to Antonov 124. The current airport has little or no kit to handle freight these days either.

[N707ZS]

NO we want aviation related industry. Offices like these are as good as building houses on the site, smell the cheese.

[mmeteesside]

N707ZS

I honestly think it’s only a matter of time before Amazon turn up. 4 huge warehouses and 2 delivery centres within a short distance soon.

[tramontana]

When they develop the South side (which I hope they do)I hope they have the Bomb Squad on standby, the Canadians were not keen on the paperwork to send munitions back to Canada as the Canadians paid for them, when war ended they just wanted to go home ASAP. Croft Airfield Dump was full of small arms munitions.

[GrahamK]

mmeteesside

Most of it probably gets trucked from East Midlands.

[onion]

N707ZS

No they aren't.
First of all if it's on the Southside it would be a good fit in that not everything has to be aviation related. If it brings jobs and investment that a good thing.
Secondly you would need change of use for what you suggest to happen.
This would be a long term lease with public purse paying into a public airport. For me as long as its not on the North side this is a win win situation for the airport, for the public purse and for the job situation in the whole Teesside/Lower Tees Valley area.

[N707ZS]

Will bare to differ on the subject onion. Major did say if aviation doesn't work he will look elsewhere for the whole site. If anything does happen over there its going to be a few years coming, also I can see the treasury digging there heels in the South.
I personally would like to see the proposed large aircraft hangar and storage park, the proposed new parcels depot and aviation specific warehousing/industrial units.

[SWBKCB]

Odd that the Mayor's offices are fine whereas Peel's housing was rubbished when they both serve the same purpose - improve the viability of the site as a whole through diversification.

Is it confirmed that any offices would be on the Southside? Can't believe that it is the best location on Teesside for a prestige office development - maybe somewhere with some existing infrastructure would be a better fit, Who will want to work in the middle of a damp field miles from anywhere?

From memory the percentage of aviation activity approved in the planning permission has been lowered a couple of times for the Southside development (but how long is exisiting planning permission valid for?)

[N707ZS]

Glad someone agrees.

[tigertanaka]

Yesterday G-SAJG - Loganair's newly named "Spirit of Teesside" - stopped off on the way form Glasgow to Norwich. The plane was at the airport for about 90 minutes during which the mayor apparently did a photo shoot.

Doubt they would be going to all this effort to promote already announced routes so maybe we will soon hear something about Loganair starting LHR? Heathrow website now showing the first flights on 8 March for LM551/552 & LM559/560 (but take that with a huge pinch of salt).

[tramontana]

As previously mentioned jobs are jobs no matter what is built on the South side however I would hope that the plan to use it is based on the Air Freight proposal, there have been plenty of new Offices built on Teesside which have laid empty for years and the Developers have been trying to gain permission to convert them into Student accommodation.

[N707ZS]

So Loganair has been placed on every Eastern route, why. We thought Peel was bad.

[Cautious Optimist]

Alicante, Cardiff, Isle of Man, London City and Southampton remain exclusive to Eastern.

Regardless of whether the Treasury offices are good or bad (I'm happy enough so long as sufficient space remains for aviation development), note that Beafer is presenting them as a positive, when he would have been the first to go apesh-t if Peel had attempted the exact same.

[onion]

I was in agreement with Peel developing the site on a commercial basis but against the Housing - especially on the North Side. I also highlighted on a number of occasions that the housing would never bring in the promised finances Peel claimed.

On the aviation front it is frustrating that they do have 2 operators on the routes. The worry being that the two battle it out and the the airport is left with nothing! The Mayor promises this wont happen, I suppose he is hoping that the competition with have the same impact the last time Logan and Eastern went head to head from the airport.

The airport cannot allow one and not the other, as far as I understand they have to allow the competition.
It could be that the airport have decided to encourage the Logan routes so they can stop the commerical deal with Eastern.

[GrahamK]

Cautious Optimist

Alicante - dropped. Presumably due to Ryanair
Cardiff dropped.
Isle of Man - dropped.
London City - ???
Southampton - ???

[Cautious Optimist]

What's your source? The airline has at no point said so, nor has the airport?

[GAXLN]

Res ipsa loquitur. Cannot see Eastern rushing to get back on any of these routes or even maintain what they have been operating. Perhaps a cunning plan to reduce what the airport possibly has to shell out for each flight that Eastern operates. Encouraging competition on these routes will not work. The likely outcome is one operator or, as someone suggested, perhaps none once this has all played out.

[Cautious Optimist]

COVID caused passenger numbers to drop in the 10 days (approximately) leading up to the first lockdown and the suspension of services, to that end, the final day of "normal" operations was Sunday 8th March, give or take.

So if those above mentioned routes are indeed axed (I forgot Dublin, and excluding LCY as the Mayor is on record confirming it is only suspended), then they have been tried, judged and executed based on data from:

Alicante: Zero days
Cardiff: 20 days
Dublin: Zero days
Isle of Man: Zero days
Southampton: Zero days

Now regardless of what the reason or who made the decision etc, that is nothing short of unacceptable.

[GAXLN]

These are marginal routes at the best of times perhaps with the exception of Alicante and I would not be surprised if none of them come back with Eastern. Eastern’s forte is not Alicante up against Ryanair.

[MissChief]

There is a strong rumour that Middleton St. George, aka Teeside Airport, is about to close. I trust this is just a rumour and not fact.

The UK has lost too many small aerodromes already; it would be a shame to see this one disappear.

[SWBKCB]

MissChief - maybe your comments would have more credibility if you could get the airports name right?

Now regardless of what the reason or who made the decision etc, that is nothing short of unacceptable.

Eastern might have been counting on being able to operate a range of flights without competition rather than a selection of stand alone flights? Interesting that a number of posters refer to the commercial agreement with Eastern, although the Mayor said last week that they weren't paying for flights to come to the airport.

What's your source? The airline has at no point said so, nor has the airport?

From general observation, neither airlines or airports tend to make much fuss about dropping routes. None of the routes quoted by Graham K are available for booking on the Eastern website.

[highwideandugly]

Points I raised some time ago.One operator on the routes then two,then one then none.

Teesside airport apart from the heady days of Globespan and tourist boom...has never had a market for schedules,or really much else.

Covid is the original spanner in the works..for all airports and airlines..it will be years before even the biggest get markets back.

I fear for all..large and small.

In Teesside’s case..the mayors pot will run out eventually..what then? I suspect his master plan has been revisited a few times this year!

[onion]

Teesside airport apart from the heady days of Globespan and tourist boom...has never had a market for schedules,or really much else.
!

You really don't know your history or aviation!
With this argument you could say Southend shouldn't have anything.

With regard to a commercial agreement, the Mayor may be technically correct in saying that they pay nothing to Eastern but if Eastern have a 'unbelievable' deal how long can the airport sustain the terms of that deal. Also Logan would be entitled to request the same. My personal belief is Logam have been encouraged to effectively break that 'unbelievable' deal with Eastern. Meaning the terms are good but not as good before and you'll end up with one on each route on lesser terms than Eastern originally had.

I'm not entirely sure why people are going 'nuts' over this. As some have said COVID has and will change habits. ALL airports will suffer consequences.
I actually think Teesside is better placed to ride out the storm than say LBA or NCL in that they have a diverse commercial base, they were starting from a relatively low position so any new routes will be a plus rather than replacing what was there. Teesside hasnt really lost routes!

The mayor is investing which says alot to the locals and the companies you re trying to attract.

On the Mayors money as far as I can tell the airport is still on track, even an independent report states this. Now that may change if COVID drags on or the recovery in aviation is slower than anticipated. Remember most of the route at Teesside will be UK so less need for COVID testing and proof. So in theory that should help.

Let's stop bitching and moaning about money it's been allocated and the mayor is doing what he promised.
Let's not worry to much about routes etc as until we have some normality no one really has an idea and i include airlines and the airport in that.
Why cant you look at the positives. The airport hasnt folded in what surely would of finished it off under Peel. They are investing and employing companies/people to help with refurbishment of the terminal. They are engaging with the locals which is giving them some hope, confidence and something to look forward too in the future.

Teesside airport is still providing vital services in a local and national environment.
Constructive criticism is fine but outright moaning is boring!

[SWBKCB]

Onion - I would agree on the whole, but would raise a few points/questions.

1. I know the victorious get to write the history but some of the Mayor's rhetoric gets a bit tiresome - Balkan were agreed with Peel, he didn't save the airport from closure (it was potential closure - the terminology used by Peel was actually very similar to that has been used by the Mayor - in simple terms 'use it or lose it'). Oh, and TUI aren't coming back till 2022

2. The whole Loganair/Eastern situation is 'odd'. It stretches credulity to believe that Eastern launched the services they did last year at their own commercial risk, and then to have another company come and replicate it 12 months later? Then look at London - launch LCY then within weeks launch LHR with no interline agreements. Are they commercial decisions Eastern would have taken on their own?

3. The money being spent - at least £3m being spent in the next few months on terminal improvements for a handful of regional a/c each day and half a dozen 737/320's a week seems excessive.especially 'at this time'. As Highwideandugly has asked on a number of occasions, is this the most effective use of taxpayers money?

4. Where's Stobart? Have they really been given 25% of the airport? For what?

[onion]

SWBKCK

1. I understand the view its the victor who writes history, but actions speak louder than words. I agree what is said may sound similar when taken as just words.
Peel made promises that were never kept, the Mayor is making good on his promises. At the end of the day I am under no illusion that if the airport isnt viable then it will be closed/mothballed or turned into a purely GA field.
Balkans yes, but did Peel get the 2nd weekly flight or was that the airports as now?
Plus i think everyone knows TUI are coming back in 2022 and not this year...... I take you are referring to the report that states the airport is on track? They themselves know this and so the report is still valid.

2. Yes Logan and Eastern is strange.
I dont believe the commercial risk at the time of launch was purely Easterns, I'm sure there were press releases stating as much! How that commerical agreement reads is anyones guess. Giving money and commercial risk are slightly different things. As such I stand by the statement that the Mayor maybe right in that they arent handing money over!
The LCY and LHR I think should be view as it is, an opportunity to bring LHR back to MME. I think we can all agree in COVID MME was never going to support 2 London destinations. The fact is COVID provided an opportunity for the LHR and they took it at short notice. I suspect in the hope of gaining the slots long term! Quite simply it's a commercial opportunity and brave decision that may or may not work. Yes interline/ or codeshare would of helped but it was I believe a fast paced commercial decision, so I'm hoping that would of come later. Was it purely Eastern idea who knows but if they gained the slots and grandfather rights then it was worth the gamble.

3. Well what else are you going to spend it on? They are creating work in times when there is little. Much better to spend it on creating jobs and keeping business afloat so they can pay taxes back into the system than to give a company £10,000 grant that will just disappear, I know that it will be used to pay bills etc and come back eventually but more does get lost along the way or leaves the area!
You wouldn't want a situation where by you are scrambling to do the work if (big) Ryanair promised 4 based aircraft from June. At least this way you are ready.
On a side note is it not wise to do the work now and have as little disruption as possible when we have some normality?

The other problem with the taxpayer money question is (and I maybe wrong) i believe the airport has the money already allocated and some of it (a good chunk) is coming from commercial borrowing as well. So the money has in effect been already allocated.
To get that back will be difficult and not only that but have you tried taking money back from any department in any organisation back into the central fund?
The money would only be handed back to the Mayor as well! It's his and his departments choice on what to do with it ultimately. Central Government are extremely unlikely to ask for it back too if that is what ultimately Highwideandugly wants.

4. Don't know!

[Cautious Optimist]

From general observation, neither airlines or airports tend to make much fuss about dropping routes. None of the routes quoted by Graham K are available for booking on the Eastern website.
In the 15-odd years I've been involved in the airport, I can't think of a single axed route that wasn't covered in a blaze of negative media publicity. I also don't think the routes not appearing in the booking engine is conclusive.

[HH6702]

Will TUI come a lot will change now once this COVID is finished a lot of airlines will become smaller and go to bigger bases with less risk

good luck to MME

[SWBKCB]

Beafer

Quoted as £471,000 when the scheme was announced last November

[mmeteesside]

Good to see Loganair to Heathrow confirmed as twice daily from 8th March. Second based aircraft and good timings for business travel too. Interline agreements with some of the biggest airlines including BA, will open up easier travel across Heathrow to many worldwide destinations. How long will Eastern last on this route now... Are their days numbered or will they stay to battle it out? Time will tell I’m sure.

https://twitter.com/seanm1997/status/1350996353766354947?s=21

[SWBKCB]

LOGANAIR has secured deals with some of the world’s biggest airlines, including British Airways and Emirates, to provide seamless international travel for travellers from the region.

The partnerships have been unveiled as the operator today announces a new route between Teesside International Airport and London Heathrow from March 8. It is initially planned to operate twice a day Monday to Friday with a single flight on Sundays.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19017859.loganair-launches-teesside-international-service-london-heathrow/

[tramontana]

I have to agree with onion although the airport relies too much on Eastern, I looked at the flight schedules one day and barring for one flight it was all Eastern, I have no idea what actual deal they have with the Airport but encouraging another airline can only benefit the future of MME. Airlines seem to be dropping routes these days like the proverbial hat not helped by the Covid situation so encouraging another Airline and healthy competition must be a good backstop in securing the future of what is an important Hub for the regions prosperity.

[SWBKCB]

Look back in a couple of months (well, when flying re-starts...) and I'd be surprised if there is any competition except maybe on ABZ.

[N707ZS]

It has certainly keep us occupied the last twelve months when Eastern was the bees knees with the big hangar unveil with the departure board for one event, Ben jumping from a Saab. Eastern looking like they could have almost moved in to Teesside with the amount of office space and routes, more routes than the airports has had in its history but the least number of passengers. Then whammy Loganair appears like a lost son from another affair. Perhaps an 80th birthday treat.

[GrahamK]

Good news for MME, but what now for Eastern?

[JSCL]

But, is it?

I'm a firm believer in not biting the hand that feeds.

[onion]

Just a thought! Are we about to see an announcement to say Eastern and Logan have merged or one has taken the other over! Would explain the duplication some what. Just a thought.

[JSCL]

Stranger things have happened, but there are absolutely zero synergies. The owners of Loganair have been wanting to sell out for some time.

[SWBKCB]

Maybe just a coincidence that the new Loganair routes are happening roughly 12 months after Easterns started? 12 month deal ending/12 month review point kicked in?

[GrahamK]

In a completely shocking move, Eastern have now removed MME-LHR from sale.

Credit to SeanM1997 on twitter.

[SWBKCB]

Terminated or suspended?

[stewyb]

Looks like Eastern are rather quickly exiting stage door left. Their U.K. route network is reducing by the day and only have a substantial presence now at SOU. However this may also change over the coming weeks and months!

[SWBKCB]

Only Aberdeen and Newquay are now listed as destinations from Teesside on Easterns website. This has changed from last night when the likes of BHD and CWL were still showing.

[stewyb]

Indeed, SOU - MME & ABZ now also removed, guess this in response to Loganair operating NCL with the new BA codeshare

[SWBKCB]

Answering my own question, the airport has stated in response to a question on FB that Loganair have replaced Eastern on Heathrow

[N707ZS]

Bet they didn't say why though.

[something_diferent]

Loganair to pick up SOU as well?

[stewyb]

why bother with NCL already serving the north east?

[highwideandugly]

Non of this is unexpected..it has been spoken many times on here.

If only the airport could provide as much rhetoric,enthusiasm and common sense as this thread!

So Eastern gone..probably...and Loganair splitting profits between Newcastle and Here...oh well on to chapter 25 ish!

[P330]

So, looks like Loganair are an Eastern replacement. Either they were pushed, or they jumped.

My sense is that the airport had too many concerns around Eastern and brought in a Plan B, either to push out Eastern or to encourage them out.

Either way, doesn’t look like we’ll need to worry about two airlines on one route and we’re left with a more reliable operator, maybe?

[SWBKCB]

To be fair, Eastern's reliability has been pretty good since last March. I suspect LM's ability to interline at LHR (or Eastern's inability...) was significant once the LHR opportunity became available.

[tigertanaka]

I agree. Apart from the argument that Eastern have been loyal to Teesside over the years (and of course the more operators at the airport the better), Loganair are surely a better bet than Eastern. Eastern have also suffered from a tendency to charge big prices on the ABZ route which has alienated many regular users who face a long train journey instead.

Loganair...

has better marketing (OK subjective but based on the emails and social media I see as a recent customer of both airlines)
has a better digital operation (have Eastern even heard of mobile apps?)
has bigger fleet (Loganair have 36 aircraft, Eastern have 13)
is a bigger company (Loganair had sales of £120m in the year to Mar 19, v Eastern's £38m)
flies more passengers (Loganiar flew 948k pax in 2019 v 298k for Eastern)
is more profitable (Loganair made money pre-covid, Eastern was a regular loss maker and the bulk of the money they made in the year to Mar 2020 was due to one off items)
has existing relationships with world leading international airlines that make codeshares and interlining possible - I do not believe Eastern even has one


However we should recognise what Eastern did to put the airport on the map last year as the 5 route launch was the biggest thing to happen to Teesside in years. The covid timing has been a disaster for them but maybe their medium term ambitions were not the same as the mayors?

[southside bobby]

Perhaps it just simply all revolves around Mr Mayor/Stobart & Stobart`s very apparent relationship with Loganair.

[SWBKCB]

As previously discussed on this thread, what exactly Stobart's role is at MME seems to be a bit of a mystery, and I've not seen anything to indicate any significant relationship between LM and Stobart?

[Saabdriver1]

There is no relationship between Loganair and Stobart - at least, not any more. MME has all happened after the two companies were long headed in different directions. I can't add a lot else to this but whatever the background is certainly isn't off the back of any Loganair & Stobart relationship.

[tigertanaka]

Just watched the mayor's video and he says "...you can also go into Dublin and fly transatlantic with United".

I checked on united.com, you can book the flight already but a £400 DUB-JFK flight goes up to £5,000+ when you start at Teesside. This is an interline on an LM number rather than a codeshare which may explain the pricing as the DUB-JFK legs went into the full fare Y class. If a codeshare appears then the price should drop to normal levels. Alternatively, this could just mean that the full pricing has not yet been loaded. Nothing via LHR with United yet.

[AirportPlanner1]

SWBKCB

There was a relationship, LM came down to SEN including the shifting of the Derry PSO from STN. And most notably the Saab based over at CAX. Whether it really turned sour we don’t know, CAX closed due to Covid, LDY went back to STN because it wasn’t feasible to open the terminal for a handful of pax per day and the ABZ route was terminated. Prior to the big collapse BE were to launch SEN-GLA which was a LM route but it’s not clear whether LM were to end it anyway.

[Saabdriver1]

And Loganair handling at GLA and EDI was moved back from Stobart to Menzies recently. The handling guys did a good job but the move was made because of some broader problems between the companies. Trust me when I say that the relationship which once existed isn't there any more.

[mmeteesside]

Eastern are in the process of updating their schedules, and it looks as though from the end of March - summer schedule season - Aberdeen will be running twice daily (Mon-Thu, one on Fri/Sun) with a weekdaily Southampton rotation in the middle. Newquay still slated to be twice weekly Mon/Fri at present. J41 operating all.

[N707ZS]

I see Cobham at Teesside has finally changed the company hangar logo to Draken.

[highwideandugly]

See the councils have had to turn down the Ski slope extravaganza at the Riverside..

300 actual jobs,prestige and who knows how many visitors spending hard earned cash in the area..

Oh well ..off to Newquay I go for my holidays with another half dozen folk.

Just wonder where they could have found that money from?

[N707ZS]

Bit more info from the local media.
Eastern Airways transfers Teesside Airport flights to other airlines | The Northern Echo (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19028225.eastern-airways-transfers-teesside-airport-flights-airlines/)

[SWBKCB]

Interesting comments - this would suggest that Eastern weren't taking on the "full commercial liability", so are Eastern being supported to take on an establishing route viability role, for others to then pick up?Ryan Kay of Eastern Airways said: "Eastern Airways is delighted that the progressive partnership agreement that it has with Teesside International Airport has delivered in such a positive manner for its partner airport. With now a 100 per cent uptake by another commercial operator taking on the risks associated to the initial route development that was commenced before the Coronavirus outbreak. The full commercial liability uptake of routes started by other operators is how the agreement was planned to work and shows what a great success it has proved to be. In accordance with the agreement, Eastern Airways will now look to develop further routes in conjunction with its friends at Teesside International Airport to include further domestic and some exciting new European sun destinations.”
He (Mayor Ben) said: “Eastern Airways is a long-standing and valued airline which helped us launch a number of exciting new routes from Teesside Airport last year. By working together, we have successfully attracted a number of airlines and tour operators to now take on these routes and develop their own offers for the airport. We will continue to work closely with Eastern Airways and all airlines to deliver the flights local people want to see come to our airport.”

[SWBKCB]

The Northern Echo article mentions that they will still be operating Aberdeen, Jersey and Newquay, no mention of Southampton which is still on sale?

[GrahamK]

Build up a route, and pass it on to someone else? Weird?

[P330]

The suggestion seems to be that Eastern are being used as a ‘sprat to catch a mackerel’. Extending that further, they come in as route provers but were never intended to stay on it long term.

Not a daft approach but I wonder if the story is being made to fit a different reality. Eastern really haven’t proven any route other than Aberdeen and Newquay because of COVID.

If things are that simple, I suggest Eastern start flights to Paris, Malaga, Ibiza, Tenerife (probably need a tech stop) and see which seagulls come circling.....😜

[southside bobby]

...& exactly the "weird" principal said to be used by Stobart at Southend when no first takers there for routes.

[N707ZS]

Are we going to see a carrot coloured ERJ 190.

[SKOJB]

How utterly bizarre as this latest press release has just made Eastern’s spurious product proposition even more incoherent. Like most people, I fail to see any sensible business plan and wonder just how the company continues to be commercially viable!

[LGS6753]

If I read this correctly, it makes sense for Eastern. They get to start routes (of their choice?) with no commercial risk and presumably with a guaranteed return. After a period, they have the choice of dropping the route as unviable, passing it to another operator, or operating it themselves (with an excellent knowledge of fares charged, costs, yield and load factors).

Nice work if you can get it.

[Saabdriver1]

I’m told their statement is a pathetic dig at MME and Loganair. It is supposed to be funny and a dig at one of the Loganair people (the quoted person at Eastern doesn’t exist). Unfortunately it misses being funny by a mile and is really rather puerile when the back story is explained. Shame to see an airline have such a lack of dignity as to think this was a good idea.

[SKOJB]

Sounds a complete PR disaster and does the reputation of those involved no favours. For Eastern I think they are living on borrowed time operating regional connectivity!

[caaardiff]

After a quick Linkedin search there doesn't appear to be a Ryan Kay working for Eastern Airways. Obviously that doesn't confirm that the person doesn't exist. However, there is a Kay Ryan that is COO of Loganair..... and more interestingly, previously the Commercial Director of Eastern Airways (Until Jul 2016)

[Fly757X]

The name rung a bell with me too (albeit in reverse).

If it is the case that the article was presented in such fashion then it’s just really really poor form. Beyond childish.

[Flightrider]

What a pathetic tale. It's sad to see an airline which was once held in decent esteem lowering itself to this.

[onion]

Not being a kill joy but I can find no mention in any of the articles regarding this news that a Ryan Kay or Kay Ryan made the Eastern statement.

As such are we sure that it's an attempted dig?

[caaardiff]

Check post #167 which is a copy and paste. The article itself appears to have since been amended. So clearly someone has backtracked on that statement using the name after being found out. Farcical

[SWBKCB]

Yes - article has been amended.

[SKOJB]

What a pathetic excuse for a so called airline, they have stoped so low and are now having to backtrack on a press release that was clearly fabricated to suit their petty means!

[SealinkBF]

SWBKCB

Ah so CityJet misunderstood their role when thus happened with them and FlyBe at Cardiff!

[SealinkBF]

They are clearly very bitter about this, just as CityJet was when CWL pulled a similar stunt with FlyBe, and understandably.

(I’d have preferred them to be openly critical rather than making up a spokesperson claiming this was their plan all along.)

[SWBKCB]

SWBKCB

Another change to the Northern Echo article today... :suspect:

It also said its Jersey and Newquay flights will continue to remain operated by Eastern Airways and frequency gradually increased - but there was no mention of its Southampton route.

[No-More-Bullschit]

Perhaps someone could clear up the confusion for me, seems the implication is the article is somehow fraudulent on the part of Eastern, yet it's every bit as much the Mayors article so is someone impersonating him to?!

[N707ZS]

Unfortunately a banger has been lit and dropped in a barrel of bullschit. Think its time to stand back as one doesn't want to get splattered as there's probably more to come up.

[highwideandugly]

Now that’s what I call an analogy ! Nice one..

[tigertanaka]

December CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 936 - down 91% v prior year.

Aberdeen: 563
Belfast City: 110
London Heathrow: 192

Plus charter

Cardiff: 71

I reckon this makes the loads on the flights as follows:

Aberdeen: 12.8 pax per flight in December (11.8 in Nov, 10.4 in Oct, 11.8 in Sep, 8.8 in Aug & 6.3 in Jul)
Belfast City: 9.2 in Dec (13.5 in Nov, 5.0 in Oct, 9.0 in Sep, 9.7 in Aug & 10.4 in Jul)
London Heathrow: 10.7 in Dec (5.7 in Nov, 6.3 in Oct, 12.5 in Sep - LCY was 4.1 in August & 5.8 in Jul)

[Robert-Ryan]

Interesting increase in Heathrow figures, and that's without the collateral boost the Loganair announcement would have provided

[GrahamK]

I think I read that LNER are to introduce a direct train to London from Middlesborough, might affect the MME-LHR flight a wee bit

[N707ZS]

A slow train journey with no electric trains.

[SWBKCB]

Where's the money for the upgrade coming from?

[tramontana]

The Chancellor who lives in N. York’s seems very keen on a de- centralised Government with the various departments moving up to the Northeast which can only be a good thing for fast travel between London and the Boro. Until the people in London realise what a beautiful area North Yorkshire is then I suppose the ‘London Staff’ will want to commute until they move their families depending on their children’s schooling requirements. Heads of Department will of course fly from Teesside, the also ran will have to take the train.

[s_insania]

£12.5m from the government and £22.5m from the TVCA

[oldart]

Using the train just to go to London only would probably be the best, however connecting to an international flight at LHR would be easier and quicker using Loganair.

[SWBKCB]

Heads of Department will of course fly from Teesside, the also ran will have to take the train.

Are senior civil servants allowed to fly on domestic routes when there is a more environmentally friendly, practical alternative?

[tigertanaka]

Not sure of the policy but I am sure that practicalities and timescales come into it. Not to mention that there will be plenty of consultants, advisors and other corporate travellers who will not fall under the civil service policy if part of the treasury were to relocate to Teesside.

If you were travelling by train to Westminster from an office near Teesside airport I guess your timings would be something like: leave the office 30 minutes before the train leaves Darlington, hopefully 2 hours 30 mins on the train then 30 minutes tube/taxi to your destination (so 3 hours 30 mins total).

If you take the plane then you would leave the office an hour before departure, 1 hour flight then 1 hour Heathrow Express/Tube or Taxi (so 3 hours total). In that example the train wins despite (taking 30 minutes longer) on environmental grounds, ability to work whilst travelling and flexibility due to sheer number of trains between Darlington, Eaglescliffe (and soon Middlesbrough).

But if you are going to Slough, the dynamic totally changes. The train will be something like 4 hours door to door and the flight 2 hours 30.

Of course price can also come into it. An early train to London is generally not so cheap if you are booking under a week in advance.

[highwideandugly]

Now I’m sure we have had these discussions in past times!

At the end of the day...it’s Covid time so nobody really knows anything?

Airports and airlines will fail,trains will will run on slippy leaves and Boro won’t be promoted!!

Stay safe...

[davidjohnson6]

The focus of HM Treasury is the UK.
Branch offices of UK plc outside the UK are handled by the Foreign Office or MOD

I imagine there would be a lot of traffic between Westminster and a Treasury office in Teesside. Maybe there would be traffic from Teesside to other HM Treasury locations in Norwich and Edinburgh

I am not clear why there would need to be heavy traffic between a Teesside office and Slough or Heathrow.

[tramontana]

My 195 comment is really an interim measure until such times as the London Staff decide either to move up here or leave/take early retirement then the cheaper (no London Weighting) locally employed Staff will be moved in as I am sure they will be able to shuffle paper around just as efficiently as the former London Staff did.
Unless the London Staff are dyed in the wool Cockneys then the advantages of moving Up North are obvious, a superb area to live in if you love country matters or the seaside, sell their pokey two bedroomed ex Council London flat and by a Detached house in Ingleby Toytown, decent Yorkshire puddings instead of jellied eels, my only worry is that I would not like to hear the Cockney infiltrate our Yorkshire dialect tha nas.
A bit below the belt in regards to Boro’s promotion prospects mind you I haven’t seen the Boro play since Delaphena and Ugalini (spelling?) played for them.
Covid has indeed put the mockers on most future plans but we do have hope for the future with both the Chancellor and the Mayors backing.

[tigertanaka]

davidjohnson6

I agree but at the same time if I were a treasury employee who lived in Slough, I would be pushing heavily to use the plane for my hypothetic trip to Teesside. In my experience these polices have some degree of interpretation based on individual circumstances, the time the employee leaves/gets home, avoiding overnight stays, travelling with more senior colleagues...

[SWBKCB]

Treasury? Degree of interpretation on expenses? :eek:

[mmeteesside]

In the middle of all of this wonderful chat about hypothetical scenarios - I seriously hope we do get the Treasury outpost of course! - it should be noted that Loganair’s second tenure starts tomorrow with the first flight to Aberdeen at 1500. The aircraft is due in about an hour beforehand, first of two of course!

[highwideandugly]

Two at the same time..15 passengers shared?

[N707ZS]

Battle commences, anyone taking bets. Hope the environmentalist's don't get wind of this.

[highwideandugly]

I wonder why Eastern didn’t gift this route to Loganair as well!!

[N707ZS]

After week one I cannot comment on the passenger figures for Aberdeen but have noticed Loganair have been running late on 99% of the Teesside flights whilst Eastern have been early even with the aircraft coming in from Humberside.

[JSCL]

Ironic given the amount of baseless Eastern bashing that goes on around here.

[Saabdriver1]

It’s been a week where almost every single turnround has needed de-icing. From what I can see every delay except one has been pretty short indeed and I know one was definitely de-icing related. Can’t speak for others but as de-icing is the commander’s responsibility then it wouldn’t be for me to be critical.

[Robert-Ryan]

Eastern have taken the lions share of passengers on every service this week, which demonstrates just how far they've come in 12 months. That said I would still expect the balance to change in time.

[RoyHudd]

3 posts per day about your airfield since Nov 28, 2020. That's about as many commercial aircraft movements in the same time period, if not more.

I have got to hand it to you MME enthusiasts. That is true dedication.

[tigertanaka]

Thanks you for your valued contribution.

Exactly what was the point of this post?

[onion]

To make it an average of 4 posts a day 🤣 with mine 5 😁

[oldart]

I think the reason why we post, is that we are so pleased that something is being done to improve the airport and services. Many airports in the country are suffering low movements, not just MME. I think under the circumstances, anything positive at any airport is good.

[highwideandugly]

According to the KLM menu..no KLM flights until April the 1st now..unless I am mis reading it?

[davidjohnson6]

Being pedantic, it looks like no KLM flights until 28 March.... but the substance of your post seems to be correct

[highwideandugly]

Commercial Pressures...out of the box thinking..financial suicidal decisions..or plane ! ,daft....you choose.

Both Aberdeen flights left and at time of typing..at least one has returned, after wasting fuel,time and airspace!

The weather has been appalling in Aberdeen most of the day..questions should be asked..why oh why did they operate for the amount of passengers needing to travel?

Am I missing something?

[highwideandugly]

Update...both returned!

[Saabdriver1]

Decision to dispatch made as normal by the commander based on the weather and information available at the time, which was appropriate. Aberdeen was SNOCLO and expected to open at 1500, but further snow showers led to the opening time going further and further back, hence the aircraft diverting back to MME and other flights also heading for ABZ diverting. It happens in winter and that's why we carry diversion fuel for alternates. Entirely reasonable given the circumstances and information available. .

[highwideandugly]

Appreciate that..but which other flights? No other flights due and non diverted.Helicopters held but landed.

My query really is..commercial and contract pressures creeping in? Out of interest I wonder how many passengers were actually involved?

[N707ZS]

Then Eastern went back and finished the expensive job.

[Saabdriver1]

LSI-ABZ ATR42 diverted to INV.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Days like these really highlight the madness of 2 operators on the same route on wafer thin margins fighting over the same small quantity of passengers.

By the time you add in extra fuel, de-icing, crew potentially out of position/ duty time then hotac or taxis it will be substantially loss making. A loss which airlines can ill afford at the best of times let alone during a global pandemic, it just beggars belief. This weather has been similar for days now in Aberdeen and the north east, so it’s not just today that these extra costs have been incurred.

[Cautious Optimist]

They aren't stupid people, you have to trust they know what they're doing.

[inOban]

The alternative, the train, is out of action due to an emergency repair to a bridge parapet.

[SWBKCB]

Doubt whether the two airlines are departing within 20 minutes of each other to provide extra capacity because of rail issues

[Rottweiler22]

highwideandugly

My contact tells me 14 passengers were on the flight that returned. The return leg had only 3 booked, but was cancelled.

[Atlantic Explorer]

inOban

There’s connecting road transport between the stations affected so not really much of an issue.

[inOban]

I know, but I would have thought that people travelling to or from Aberdeen for their stint on the rigs (or whatever ) would much prefer to not have to change onto a Coach for part of the journey. I'm sure that in normal times (remember them?) most of this traffic used the train.

[tigertanaka]

At the moment, the prices on MME-ABZ make it extremely attractive over taking the train (epecially if you are self employed and your company is not picking up the tab). The extent of the current demand is another question.

For the 6 months in 2017-18 when Loganair went head to head with Eastern, the traffic on the ABZ route was up something like 67%. After Loganair left, it dropped by 43% over the same period.

[SWBKCB]

Got to keep the posts count up...Cllr Hobson chaired a sub-committee at the authority which was set up to scrutinise and ask questions of the organisation's 2021/22 budget. Sub-committee members were advised by officers that the responsibility of the combined authority did not extend to a detailed budget review of a separate company relating to the airport.
Cllr Hobson, who is chairman of Middlesbrough Council and also chairs its planning committee, attempted to present the findings of his sub-committee in respect of the 2021/22 budget at a recent TVCA cabinet meeting. But he was cut short by Conservative Mr Houchen and only allowed to read out three observations the sub-committee wished to place on record.

The sub-committee said it was not given the opportunity to look at Teesside International Airport Limited, which is a subsidiary of the combined authority. Therefore it was not able to scrutinise fully any spending involving public funds. Cllr Hobson said he was not satisfied with the response he and other members received.

Gazette - Mayor criticised over scrutiny of millions of taxpayer support provided for Teesside Airport (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/mayor-criticised-over-scrutiny-millions-19810948)

[SWBKCB]

Would have thought the previous story on the relationship between TVCA, Goosepool 2019, TIAL and Stobart would be more your style given your previous interests, Beefer

[SWBKCB]

Might be me, but I'm sure that the interest in Peel's financial affairs pre-dated any housing plans by a good few years.

I think if they has stayed you may have seen the place closed by now.

A quick fact check here - according to the Mayor, he saved it from closure - no "if's, but's or maybe's" - he saved it, and it's been repeated many times.

Now, I may have missed it but I don't remember any closure being announced. Peel said that they needed the housing to fund development of the southside and if they didn't get planning permission they might close it (shock, horror - black picture painted to try and secure planning permission). And hasn't the Mayor made similar "use it or lose it" comments and mentioned possible closure?

[Cautious Optimist]

Don't forget the Mayor stopped a sizeable airline deal that would have rendered his election pledge null and void (my underlining):


Clock ticking on flightsFurther proposals to bring new flights from Durham Tees Valley Airport could be lost, the leaders of all five Tees Valley authorities have warned.

Earlier this month, two major holiday companies have proposed new flights, beginning in summer 2019. In order to secure the flights, the airport’s operator requested support from the Tees Valley Combined Authority’s £500k airport development fund.

However, last week, Council Leaders blocked Mayor Houchen’s budget when it became clear that the money requested had been earmarked for solicitors and consultants instead of support for the new routes. Instead, Redcar and Cleveland Council leader Cllr Sue Jeffrey had no option but to propose an amendment to the budget to guarantee the cash needed, a move supported by the other leaders.

Despite the amendment to guarantee the support for new flights, the Tees Valley Mayor continues to oppose it.

Talks will recommence this Friday, with calls for the Tees Valley Mayor to get behind the new flight proposals and guarantee the development cash needed. Cllr Sue Jeffrey said:
“The stakes are very high here and time is running out. We have a solid proposition to invest and grow our airport but the Tees Valley Mayor is only interested in paying expensive consultants to try to make sense of his uncosted election pledge to buy the airport. It is simply reckless to put these new flights at risk. Mayor Houchen needs to stop playing politics and support our airport.”

Cllr Bill Dixon, who is the Combined Authority’s Cabinet Member for Transport, said:
“The public will be rightly angry that, after the Tees Valley Mayor made saving the airport such a large part of his election campaign, he is now effectively blocking efforts to bring in more flights.
Our airport is a valuable asset for our area – but airports are worthless without flights. It’s time for Mr Houchen to commit to making sure we secure these new flights.”

The proposal would see one of the largest increases in flights taking off from the airport since the financial crash hit in 2007 – providing a boost to the struggling airport which employs 60 people.

• The amendment proposed and agreed by the five council leaders is:
“That given the lack of any new plan for Durham Tees Valley Airport and the resulting risk to Local Authority investment in the airport that, in line with the Combined Authority/Durham Tees Valley Airport development proposal set out in March 2017, the CA agree that the £0.5m funding for legal and financial assessments set out in paragraph 28 support proposals made by Peel Holdings in their letter of 2nd February 2018 for route support, marketing and enhanced airport services. That this arrangement be progressed with utmost priority to support Peel Holdings in securing the viability of the airport post 2021.”

• New route development is increasingly competitive with airlines requiring significant start-up funding to ‘de-risk’ the services, often through a combination of subsidised or low airport charges and marketing support. Typically routes take up to three years to develop to break-even profitability, but an airline’s ability to sustain these losses is often less than twelve months. As a result, route support is required to deliver profitability as quickly as possible and increase the airlines ability to sustain losses during the ‘start- up’ phase.

[N707ZS]

Wonder where they have found space for the new aviation consultant, these days it sounds the ideal company for a home base. The same company had some involvement in the process of buying the airport.

[SWBKCB]

Didn't know of any previous involvement. Looks to be a new office with 3 people in addition to their main office in Thirsk.


In the Mayor's comment on this story he says -"And I’m keeping up the progress, diggers are already working on a site the size of 270 football pitches building a new business park at our airport. "
Anybody seen anything?

[N707ZS]

Before lockdown a portable office was built on the South side and a couple of diggers were seen and disappeared, since lockdown I don't know, nothing at all on the new road. If he's trying to get the Treasury he must be stuck for aviation investment.

If we were opening a Cirrus office that would be more interesting.

[Robert-Ryan]

Isn't that Rob Cooke MD of Cyrrus the same Rob Cooke who was our Business Development Director (or similar) under Peel?

[SWBKCB]

https://www.cyrrus.co.uk/cyrrus-supports-durham-tees-valley-airport-with-airspace-change/Cyrrus is proud to support the modernisation of flight procedures at Durham Tees Valley Airport. The team will undertake the airspace change for the introduction of satellite-based aRea Navigation (RNAV) Instrument Approach Procedures (IAPs) at the Airport. The UK Future Airspace Strategy (FAS), championed by the CAA, advocates the introduction of such Performance-Based Navigation (PBN) procedures to complement and ultimately replace the conventional procedures which rely on older, ground-based, navigation installations. Due to the evolving nature of the UK’s navigation infrastructure, and the age of some of the associated equipment, the proposed RNAV IAPs at Durham Tees Valley Airport will provide a welcome redundancy. The introduction of these procedures comes at an exciting time for the Airport as it recently announced the introduction of a new airline, Loganair, which will be operating flights to Aberdeen and Norwich from October this year. There is also significant investment ongoing in enhancing the terminal facilities.

Speaking about the project, Rob Cooke, Operations Director at Durham Tees Valley Airport said; “Having worked with Cyrrus on a number of projects before, we know that they can and will deliver a most professional and cost-effective solution for the introduction of these procedures. We look forward to working with the Cyrrus Team to deliver a successful outcome to this project.”

Yes, it is the same guy. Went to Brighton City Airport (Shoreham!) between DTVA/DSA and Cyrrus

[N707ZS]

The airport opened specially for Boris today so that he could have a photo shoot at the local covid vaccine producing plant.

[tigertanaka]

He also visited a firm in central Newcastle who have developed a 30 minute test for covid-19 so NCL would presumably have been another option but Teesside was chosen.

[Jamesair1]

Maybe a show of support for the Mayor who may have greeted him on arrival.

[SKOJB]

Probably to drop off another swag bag of taxpayers money!

[highwideandugly]

What ever anyone says....l would love to know who the PR guy is...the news is always so positive and forward thinking👍

[tramontana]

Could it be Mr Mallon the former Detective Inspector, now that would be a turn up?

[N707ZS]

Highwideandugly, I think he's called Victor.

[oldart]

Have the plans for a parallel taxiway to the main runway been abandoned? Some time in the future having to back track might cause delays.

[SKOJB]

A very long time in to the future. Teeside isn’t turning in to LHR any time soon!

[N707ZS]

The parallel taxiway hasn't re appeared on any plans so far. Neither has the extra stands and parking, which might be why stand 13 got the make over.

[Robert-Ryan]

I never understood the parallel taxiway argument, it was always screamed out for, Google Earth shows alpha and delta are both parallel if a bit wyndy, is it not just a case of widening/strengthening them?

[N707ZS]

Delta taxiway is straight but narrow. Cannot remember the route for Alpha either behind the stands or re-routed from the end of stand 9 to Alpha 1. A re-routed Alpha would have released land Northside which was earmarked for a new TNT depot.

[onion]

Some of the original drawings going back (late 1990s) to Moorfield (think that was them) showed a parallel along the line of the back of the main apron with fast run offs.
The stands would of moved from south to the north in front of the hangers.
current taxi ways are too narrow for anything bigger than A320 to the west and 737/A319 to the east. Even then from what I ve seen most stuff that size goes via the central taxi way anyway.

[AndrewH52]

Hadn’t appreciated just how narrow Alpha and Delta are given the standard width for a taxiway is 23m.

[oldart]

The largest aircraft I have seen using Delta taxiway was a B757 belonging to Orange. I believe there are weight restrictions as well, so widening the taxiways might not work.