Teesside-2

[highwideandugly]

Makes you wonder if the mayor has eyes on their apron and facilities too?

See Skyhawks operating from Leeming soon on a detachment…apparently they need chutes…now that would be interesting mixing here with civil traffic!…I always thought Leeming was a better facility for Drakens operations anyway.
Pseudo military and civil airlines are an interesting mix!

[N707ZS]

With the plans for the Southside drawn up and suggested occupation by June could this be the last year for the air show with the new industrial area being underneath the display area.

[onion]

15 departures can be taken as 30 flights! Meaning only 5 more departures needed.

Burns will not be welcome near the units, in the same manner that a fire brigade often evacuate or instruct nearby properties to close all windows and doors, I'm not entirely sure how you jump to aviation being unwanted on the Southside?

The airport has offered to cover the cost of relocation elsewhere on the airport site, which wont be cheap with the underlying works on the pan that stop/mitigate ground contamination from unburnt fuels and foams.

[SWBKCB]

No idea where the figure of fourty flights came from, but agree that it would include arrivals and departures, though how the current level of GA movements has an impact on 40 air transport movements a day I don't know. Presumably that would be any training flights out the window as well? :rolleyes:

And as for the comment about crashes, well...

The airport has offered to cover the cost of relocation elsewhere on the airport site, which wont be cheap with the underlying works on the pan that stop/mitigate ground contamination from unburnt fuels and foams

Given the comments on contamination and burns, where else on the airport would be a suitable location?

Will be interesting to see what airside access there is to the southside.

[highwideandugly]

According to facebook contributions..there is nowhere on airfield suitable..apart from near existing terminal!

Also plans on there show no airside access…the new business park footprint takes up a huge area.

[Cautious Optimist]

The plan the Mayor posted on his Facebook a week ago showed an aircraft apron, so there must be airside access?

[SWBKCB]

The image an FB is too small for me to make that out - whereabouts?

[Cautious Optimist]

Green square where the two cross-runways meet

[SWBKCB]

Thanks for confirming the location - the image on FB isn't superimposed on to the airports layout. So do we assume that it will just be the two proposed buildings bordering that area that will be accessible by aircraft?

[highwideandugly]

I see that area.it’s not huge,but possible? Not sure about taxiways..that could be expensive linking to the runway direct?

[Beatts]

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2022/W07/768999604

[N707ZS]

As a point of interest all of these developments seem to just slip through planning and just get rubber stamped. I am not against the airport developing but I do believe the development should be aviation related industry or a large proportion. We need Beafer to dig up the evidence, the first Southside development caused such a stir with the locals and that was sold to them as aviation. Not even the local Councillor Doris Jones has reared her head this time.

[SWBKCB]

As a point of interest all of these developments seem to just slip through planning and just get rubber stamped. I am not against the airport developing but I do believe the development should be aviation related industry or a large proportion. We need Beafer to dig up the evidence, the first Southside development caused such a stir with the locals and that was sold to them as aviation. Not even the local Councillor Doris Jones has reared her head this time.

Yes - what the Mayor has planned for the southside is pretty much what was in the Peel Masterplan, except Peel had housing planned near the terminal to fund it, whereas the plan now seems to be to have Willis and the fire school in a similar location.

From memory the the original planning permission (presumably now lapsed) was for aviation-related acticities, but various amendments chipped the percentage away. It ending up at 40% seems to ring a bell. Don't know what planning arrangement the units to be built this summer are happening under, or the roundabout on the A67 come to that.

[SWBKCB]

This seems to be the permission - dated 2 November 2018, probably explains the spades in ground ceremony last year. B2 is general industry amd B8 storage and distribution

The development hereby permitted shall be begun before the expiration of THREE years from the date of this permission.

https://www.developmentmanagement.stockton.gov.uk/online-applications/files/D485B48327FC25B5AF66E3E89CDB0648/pdf/18_2023_FUL-PAFULZ_FULL_APPLICATION_APPCONDITIONALLY-2158990.pdf

[N707ZS]

I haven't seen the new location for the fire school, obviously not on the Southside. A location near the station / hangar 5 might of worked if someone hadn't sold the land off.

[highwideandugly]

Just found this snippet from November last year..all quotes by the mayor..



“perfectly positioned to welcome new investment and firms looking to place themselves at the heart of our
area. We’re confident of welcoming more than 400,000 passengers through our new terminal next year thanks
to all of the new flights we’ve secured, and our investment in the terminal, creating an airport people will want
to use time and time again. Our airport is so much more than just flights to Alicante, behind the new routes are
new jobs supporting families and the local community, this summer we’ve created 40 new jobs and this will
continue to grow further as our airport does. Of course, we shouldn’t rest on our laurels, and that’s why we’re
working harder than ever to secure even more new routes, airlines and operators.”
Mr Houchen said the past year’s losses would be “slashed” as he said the airport would return to profit by
2024. He said: “This will be slashed in the next year, we will be going back into profit within the next two to
three years”

Interesting quotes..400k passengers this year…overly optimistic views would be half that !
No idea about the financial details…or profit forecasts!

In this strange world..I feel you should be careful what you promise the people!

[tigertanaka]

I guess you are referring to this article (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/airport-bosses-aim-1m-passengers-21625977) from 21 September last year? Also be fair to the mayor, the 400k passengers would have been prior to the omicron outbreak which has clearly set the industry back again.

But's let's assume that covid had disappeared, was the 400k passenger target for 2022 even realistic?

Amsterdam: 112,000 (36 flights a week each way x 60 pax)
Heathrow: 75,000 (36 flights a week x 40 pax)
Aberdeen: 20,000 (22 flights a week x 18 pax)
Belfast: 12,500 (12 flights a week x 20 pax)
Southampton: 12,500 (12 flights a week x 20 pax)
Bristol: 12,500 (12 flights a week x 20 pax)
Newquay: 3,000 (2022 plus a bit of growth)
Jersey: 2,500 (historical average)
Ryanair summer (4 destinations): 50,000 (12 flights a week in the Summer x 160 pax)
Ryanair winter (Mallorca): 16,500 (4 flights a week in the Winter x 160 pax)
TUI: 16,500 (4 flights a week in the Summer x 160 pax)
Jets Go: 8,000 (2 flights a week in the Summer x 160 pax)
Bourgas: 10,500 (4 flights a week for a 17 week season x 160 pax)
Lourdes/Santa/Italy charters: 2,000
Other business/football charters: 2,000

I think this guesswork is very optimistic but it still adds up to 356,000 passengers. Assuming there was some science behind the 400k target, I wonder what additional services the airport was expecting?

[Harold77]

I guess you are referring to this article (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/airport-bosses-aim-1m-passengers-21625977) from 21 September last year? Also be fair to the mayor, the 400k passengers would have been prior to the omicron outbreak which has clearly set the industry back again.

But's let's assume that covid had disappeared, was the 400k passenger target for 2022 even realistic?I think this guesswork is very optimistic but it still adds up to 356,000 passengers. Assuming there was some science behind the 400k target, I wonder what additional services the airport was expecting?

I would say last year that the forecast for 400k was a bit on the low side for what was going to potentially happen in 2022 if everything returned to normal.

My estimates would have been:

Amsterdam: 130,000
Heathrow: 80,000
Aberdeen: 23,000
Belfast: 25,000
Southampton: 30,000
Dublin: 15,000
Newquay: 6,000
Jersey: 3,000
Alicante: 36,000
Corfu: 12,000
Faro: 15,000
Palma: 26,000
Bourgas: 18,000
Lourdes/Santa/Italy charters: 2,500
Other business/football charters: 2,000


There was supposed to be at least another 6 routes, new operators, expanded service patterns and increase in aircraft capacity, but these new routes look like they have been pushed back til 2023 due to international covid restrictions giving uncertainty. We may yet see something extra added for this year, but I think everything is getting geared up towards next year now.

With it looking like going to be April before somewhere near full timetable services will operate, means this years figures will be taking a knock, with a quarter off the year lost. But we should still see some good figures as the year progresses.

[SWBKCB]

So you expected Antalya to be dropped?

[P330]

KLM ‘normal’ schedule delayed until the end of May.

[N707ZS]

They could do with finding an operator or operators for a couple of winter sun holidays as the demand seems to be there judging by the neighbouring airports.

[onion]

400k is probably optimistic with the current timetabled flights although technically there does appear to be 400k+ seats on sale.

[Harold77]

Back last year it was thought everything will have been over with, and travel returning to normal early on. They weren't expecting another quarter of the year to be lost to covid restrictions, not so much in the UK but restrictions still strong in other countries.

So 400k could have been really achievable this year, but the slow release of restrictions around the world has knocked everything back. So hopefully the way this year is panning out, getting 250k would be good to see.

[highwideandugly]

250k. pushing it?

Heathrow won’t reach anywhere near 80k with only one flight 6 days per week..especially if slot is reclaimed by BA?
KLM don’t have much appetite for a full return so that 130k is doubtful also?
Southampton 30k..no way (7k more than Aberdeen?)
Dublin 15k from a standing start?
Jersey half the Newquay projection?

[Harold77]

So you expected Antalya to be dropped?

I knew I was forgetting something. lol

[Harold77]

250k. pushing it?

Heathrow won’t reach anywhere near 80k with only one flight 6 days per week..especially if slot is reclaimed by BA?
KLM don’t have much appetite for a full return so that 130k is doubtful also?
Southampton 30k..no way (7k more than Aberdeen?)
Dublin 15k from a standing start?
Jersey half the Newquay projection?

Like I say these were predictions from last year, with expectations of full and expanded timetables being in operation. Expectation that covid restrictions globally would have finished beginning of 2022 so to allow full timetable to be implemented.

I have ommitted figures from the list the list of new flights that were expected to start this year, that would have pushed passenger figures to over 500k. Depending on covid entry restrictions in other countries being lifted very soon we may see some of these put in the system for this year. But it is expected that everything is pushed back to 2023 start dates now. So 2023 could see a full and expanded timetable and new flights/ routes/ operators in operation that would push passenger figures to over 750k.

[GrahamK]

Who other than Loganair is likely to start new flights from MME though? Slap back in the middle of LBA and NCL, both of whom are partially owned by the same Australian company, I'd think they'll be doing what they can to attract the airlines back.

[SKOJB]

GA and cargo are the way forward for MME as it sure ain’t passenger traffic!

[SWBKCB]

GA and cargo are the way forward for MME as it sure ain’t passenger traffic!

Look at a map - where's the market for GA and Cargo that will support an international airport? The strategy has to be to get all these elements to contribute along with development of the property potential.

And picking up on GrahamK's point, wonder if it is a coincidence that RYR have set up a base at NCLand expanded the base at LBA since RYR pitched up at MME?

[N707ZS]

Hope the property potential doesn't see the demise of the airport.

Went pasted yesterday and the number of trees that are being destroyed for the new road was alarming, not just those in the roads path but also either side past the new fence.

[Harold77]

Who other than Loganair is likely to start new flights from MME though? Slap back in the middle of LBA and NCL, both of whom are partially owned by the same Australian company, I'd think they'll be doing what they can to attract the airlines back.

At least two or three airlines in the pipeline for Teesside.

[highwideandugly]

It’s a long pipe line me thinks!

[Cautious Optimist]

If Harold77 is who I think he is (due to duplicate posts on here and another platform recently), then his reputation precedes him and anything he says is to be taken with a very large pinch of salt

[Harold77]

If Harold77 is who I think he is (due to duplicate posts on here and another platform recently), then his reputation precedes him and anything he says is to be taken with a very large pinch of salt

If you know where to look for info, the info is out there. It is just a case of knowing how to join the dots and crossing the Tees.

[SWBKCB]

Draw us a picture then.

[jorvik]

I think some people love to live in a fantasy world where local political spin and bluster doesn’t match up to promises. Best of luck to MME, but the passenger market it’s small and well covered in the area by other airports. Not many roads left to go down for new carriers. FR will continue with a token offering for ease, but with expansion at LBA and a new base at NCL, they will be sure not to go to far. Cargo is a promise land and where MME might cut through. But unfortunately pallets and boxes don’t spend money in the car parks and shops.

[highwideandugly]

Mind..I like the Tees reference!

[tigertanaka]

January CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 2,882 (compared to 5,798 last month, 697 passengers in Jan 2021 and 9,803 in Jan 2020)

Aberdeen: 963 (down 36% v December but up 76% v Jan last year)
Belfast City: 279 (down 50% v Dec, only 19 pax in Jan last year)
Heathrow: 700 (down 48% v Dec, only 27 in Jan last year)
Alicante: 311 (down 73% v Dec)
Amsterdam: 629 (down 20% v Dec)

A really disappointing month but passenger numbers perhaps not surprising given the low number of rotations (Aberdeen had 16% fewer flights in January compared to December, Belfast -38%, Heathrow -35%, Alicante -78% and Amsterdam -20%). The general trend (apart from Alicante) is that loads are down versus December.

Amsterdam will be even worse in February and things don't look like they are going to improve there until the end of March when KLM are scheduled to back to a daily service, still a far cry from the 18 outbound flights a week the airport enjoyed 2 years ago. Heathrow is due to go back to a double daily on 1 April so fingers crossed that happens, especially as (anecdotally) loads have apparently been strong recently.

[highwideandugly]

Ouch! Not much there for someone to hang their bicorn hat on ?

Not sure when the next financial figures are published..but going to make interesting and uncomfortable reading.

Hope the Spa is doing well..l

[SKOJB]

Blimey they are shocking numbers!

[Harold77]

Not sure when the next financial figures are published..but going to make interesting and uncomfortable reading.

I'm expecting them to be published 31st March, just like they were released last year on 31st March.

[N707ZS]

Here's the latest episode from the media.
Take a look as diggers move in to create stylish Sky Bar and viewing platform at Teesside Airport - Teesside Live (gazettelive.co.uk) (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/take-look-diggers-move-create-23344175#comments-wrapper)

[SKOJB]

Here's the latest episode from the media.
Take a look as diggers move in to create stylish Sky Bar and viewing platform at Teesside Airport - Teesside Live (gazettelive.co.uk) (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/take-look-diggers-move-create-23344175#comments-wrapper)

Readers comments in this article are the best bit! 😂

[Harold77]

KLM have reinstated Sunday flight.

[N707ZS]

I see Kate Willard has jumped from Stobart but is also a Thames estuary envoy. How many cash pies.
Kate Willard OBE Appointed Chair of Teesside Airport Boards - Tees Valley Combined Authority (teesvalley-ca.gov.uk) (https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/kate-willard-obe-appointed-chair-of-teesside-airport-boards/)

[SWBKCB]

I see Kate Willard has jumped from Stobart but is also a Thames estuary envoy. How many cash pies.
Kate Willard OBE Appointed Chair of Teesside Airport Boards - Tees Valley Combined Authority (teesvalley-ca.gov.uk) (https://teesvalley-ca.gov.uk/kate-willard-obe-appointed-chair-of-teesside-airport-boards/)

She'll be bringing all her Carlisle experience...

Still a trustee to the Airport foundation as well. What happened to the application process for the new trustees? Also although the airport foundation is described as a "charitable trust", it doesn't seem to be registered as a charity yet?

[N707ZS]

She'll be bringing all her Carlisle experience...

Still a trustee to the Airport foundation as well. What happened to the application process for the new trustees? Also although the airport foundation is described as a "charitable trust", it doesn't seem to be registered as a charity yet?
Cough, cough!!

[mmeteesside]

Good to see further schedule increases on some routes over the next few weeks too.

Amsterdam gains Tue & Wed flights from 27th March and from 24th April increases to daily. Still a long way to go to hit it’s former 3x daily though!

Heathrow gains a Saturday from the end of March, and goes double daily from 1st May currently. Loads appear to have been pretty strong in the last few weeks at least. Good to hear. Belfast goes back to 6 a week from 27th March also.

[P330]

Yes, the 3x daily is back w/c 23 May.

[SKOJB]

Yes, the 3x daily is back w/c 23 May.

absolutely no chance of that happening from end of May!

[SWBKCB]

absolutely no chance of that happening from end of May!

Flights are up for sale

[Cautious Optimist]

Means nothing, I booked flights that were for sale, had to rearrange. Will believe it when I see it

[P330]

Means nothing, I booked flights that were for sale, had to rearrange. Will believe it when I see it

True...the 3x daily flights have always been bookable 3 months out since 2020. Hasn’t happened yet...but presumably will soon.

[tigertanaka]

When I checked on 2 March, Heathrow was showing as double daily from 1 April so at some point in the last 10 days, it has slipped a month.

[highwideandugly]

Thanks for the link Beafer..

Interesting reminder..Loganair resumed its flights from the airport in late 2020.

Then says it signed a three year agreement….

Belfast subsidies and Heathrow slots are two major players here…

However the way the world is at the moment…who has a clue what outcome aviation or otherwise will occur🤔

[tigertanaka]

KLM double daily from w/c 23 May (was triple daily), no night stopper. Just messed up my plans for a long weekend in Switzerland...

[P330]

Yep...changed again!

Interesting timings too!

[P330]

Red Arrows confirmed for the air show on the 11th June.

Worth a visit me thinks...,

[Harold77]

Planning Application submitted to Darlington Council to build new hangar for Draken to house upto 8 additional L159 aircraft.

[N707ZS]

Looks good 22_00243_FUL-DESIGN_STATEMENT-1864789.pdf (darlington.gov.uk) (https://publicaccess.darlington.gov.uk/online-applications/files/6EBBDA18513627FAEC7330AEF50EA0E0/pdf/22_00243_FUL-DESIGN_STATEMENT-1864789.pdf)
Shame the airport couldn't have built a new GA hangar the same way.

[SWBKCB]

Never mind about hangers, where would the GA park if those eight stands are exclusively for Draken.

Airside access to hangar 3 also looks a little tight....

[Cautious Optimist]

Given Hangar 360 was named after the squadron that the original FR Aviation replaced, they should be calling this one Hangar 100.

[tigertanaka]

February CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 5,346 (compared to 2,882 last month, 1,172 passengers in Feb 2021 and 10,450 in Feb 2020)

Aberdeen: 1,285 (up 33% v January & up 32% v Feb last year)
Belfast City: 344 (up 23% v Jan, no pax in Feb 21)
Heathrow: 856 (up 23% v Jan, no pax in Feb 21)
Alicante: 2,091 (v 311 in Jan)
Amsterdam: 523 (down 17% v Jan)

Plus charters to Bristol (35), Luton (35), Norwich (43) and an inbound diversion from Arrecife (134),

Numbers well up on a very poor January and up against the covid impact in Feb 2021. Whilst overall passenger numbers are still nowhere near pre-covid levels, this is primarily down to the number of rotations as loads are reasonably strong. Heathrow (one flight a day) averaged 17.8 pax per flight (best month yet), Belfast 21.5 (again the best month yet), Amsterdam 43.6 (best month since Feb 2020) and Aberdeen was 17.6 (in line with recent levels and very strong in historic terms).

Don’t read too much into Alicante being well up on the previous month as Ryanair only ran 4 flights in January. February load of 131 pax was 69% compared to 78% on the rest of their network.

So some green shoots here, just need Loganair and KLM to keep to their planned schedule increases.

[N707ZS]

Will be interesting to see if the L-159s become UK registered or kept upon the N American register. And are they solely based at Teesside or shared with Bournemouth as the Da 20s are.

The airport doesn't seem to have any plans to increase parking with a possibility of 8 L-159s and any new airline traffic or maintenance traffic. On a good day the shooting season can produce up to six aircraft.

[SWBKCB]

Does nobody proof read the headlines for the press notices on the airport website - the latest one isFirst Bumper of Summer Flights in a Decade Gets Locals Jetting Off Once Againand a couple of weeks ago they hadLocal Firs Ramp Up Work On Teesside Airport Viewing Platform And OfficesYes - I should get out more... :ok:

[N707ZS]

Did you read the one about the local GA and no hangars which they were promised.

[highwideandugly]

Ga sadly, in the eyes of the powers, contribute very little to the master plan unfortunately!

But looking at the latest financial figures published..any revenue is welcome?

Any update on the Fire School…?

[highwideandugly]

Local Firs Ramp Up Work On Teesside Airport Viewing Platform And Offices..does that mean it’s being built entirely out of wood?🤔

[SWBKCB]

Ga sadly, in the eyes of the powers, contribute very little to the master plan unfortunately!

But looking at the latest financial figures published..any revenue is welcome?



And the latest financial figures from the Gazette for the 2020/2021 financial year:

Accounts for the airport show that just 14,521 people used Teesside as it made an operating loss of £13.4m in the year to the end of March 2021. Turnover fell 39% to £4.8m, from £7.7m in what director Phil Forster described as a “devastating” time for the aviation industry.

The Gazette then goes on to say:

During the year, the airport incurred costs of £2.73m relating to the termination of contracts. It was the same period in which airport operator Esken - then called Stobart Group - exited its role and transferred its 25% stake in the airport to a new charitable foundation, for a nominal consideration.

The announcement about Esken leaving was July 2021, so not in the year covered by the annual report - have the Gazette got it wrong?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/losses-rise-teesside-airport-covid-23560888

[highwideandugly]

The Gazette got it wrong….surely not!

[N707ZS]

Read the comments from the gazette. They were quickly removed.

[Harold77]

Job Vacancies advertised with Draken at Teesside:

L159 Training Manager
Aviation Engineering Apprentice
Maintenance Production Planner & Controller
Storekeeper
L159 Captain
Falcon 20 Captain
Electronic Warfare Officer (EWO)

https://drakeneurope.aero/jobs

[SWBKCB]

Job Vacancies advertised with Draken at Teesside:

L159 Training Manager
Aviation Engineering Apprentice
Maintenance Production Planner & Controller
Storekeeper
L159 Captain
Falcon 20 Captain
Electronic Warfare Officer (EWO)

https://drakeneurope.aero/jobsRoyal Air Force fighter pilots will face a new adversary when conducting combat training following the signing of a contract for the interim provision of a Red Air ‘aggressor’ service. Known as the Interim Red Air Aggressor Training Service (IRAATS), from the 1st July the six-year contract with Draken Europe will see RAF fighter squadrons conduct training against fighter jets replicating the tactics, techniques and procedures of potential adversaries. The new service will use the L-159E Honey Badger, a military aircraft to be flown to military standards by experienced ex-military fast jet pilots regulated by the Civil Aviation Authority.

The contract was placed on the 28th March 2022 and is for three years (1st July 2022 to 30th June 2025), with options for up to a further three years. The contract will create up to 28 additional jobs in the aviation industry and contribute towards the development of Teesside International Airport where the L-159Es will be collocated with Draken’s existing DA20 Falcon aircraft fleet.
https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/new-red-air-training-service-for-raf-fighter-squadrons/

[No-More-Bullschit]

Excellent news but on the subject of military contracts I'm surprised nobody posted about the Black Hawk bid that came out last month, I mean, to me that piece of news was made for this forum!!!

[N707ZS]

You would have though Beafer would have got his teeth into it. If you look into the Black Hawk bid it does have a serious company with directors and an office at the airport.

[SWBKCB]

Depends on what you mean by a serious company. What's their track record on delivering major contracts?

[N707ZS]

Wrong company Beafer this is helicopters and not Draken. As serious the company looks more than a school boy project or an African dream.

[N707ZS]

Still barking up the wrong thread, this one.
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopters/latest-nmh-contender-breaks-cover-and-touts-evolved-and-renewed-black-hawk-bid/147964.article

And here.About Us - Acehawk Aerospace (https://acehawkaerospace.com/?page_id=47)

[highwideandugly]

Hi all..any news on IFTC and it’s future at the airport?

[SWBKCB]

Read the comments from the gazette. They were quickly removed.

See the airports annual report has made the business pages of the latest Private Eye

[highwideandugly]

Haven’t read Private Eye report..but suspect it won’t be comfortable reading?

[tigertanaka]

March CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 6,970 (compared to 5,346 in Feb, 1,559 passengers in Mar 2021, 5,215 in Mar 2020 - start of covid impact - and 11,109 in March 2019)

Aberdeen: 1,491 (up 16% v February & up 12% v March last year)
Belfast City: 476 (up 38% v Feb, no pax in Mar 21)
Heathrow: 1,006 (up 18% v Feb, only 96 pax in Mar 21)
Newquay: 10 passengers (no pax last month or in Mar 21)
Alicante: 2,421 (up 16% v Feb, no pax in Mar 21)
Amsterdam: 1,158 (up 121% v Feb, no pax in Mar 21)
Faro: 126 (no pax last month or in Mar 21)
Palma: 82 (no pax last month or in Mar 21)

Plus charters to Biggin Hill (33), Farnborough (45), Norwich (43), Gatwick (42) and Stansted (80).

Overall numbers continue to grow month-on-month on all regular routes and were helped overall by the recommencement of some of the summer services. Belfast was boosted by increased rotations and Heathrow is running at 19 pax per flight despite only a skeleton daily service. Alicante is running at an 80% load factor and Amsterdam has had its best month in terms of overall numbers & average loads since covid (although a long way short of the 10,000 a month using the route beforehand). Aberdeen is growing but there is a concern as loads were not particularly strong and numbers were slightly down on the Eastern days of March 2019.

Do not read too much into the Newquay, Faro and Palma numbers as there were only 2 (one inbound and one outbound) flights on each route in the month.

April 2022 should see the best passenger numbers since October 2019 (and possibly the best April since 2013) but let's see...

[Harold77]

Aircraft Movements 1,505

Good to see Aircraft Movements growing as well in the CAA figures.

This year is going to be immense for the airport. Best results for a considerable number of years.

[EGPO]

It is certainly good news and a huge effort by the people running the airport , to help make these sucseses a possibility.
Good news these days often seems hard to come by, so this makes for a nice change , and here's to the airport really having a great year going forward!.

[Harold77]

With the March figures out now that brings to an end the airport's Financial Year.

2021-22 Financial Year stats:

83,921 passengers
4,170 passenger flights
20,130 aircraft movements.

[highwideandugly]

Breaking those figures down..

I make it 10 passengers average per departing flight over the year.Long way to go!

[tigertanaka]

I make it 21 pax per flight (the passenger flights are counted as both ways as well as the passengers). The Loganair/Eastern flights averaged about 14 pax which drags the overall number down quite a bit.

[SWBKCB]

But aren't most of the flights by Eastern/Loganair?

It's under 250 pax per day for both the annual figure and the most recent March stats.

[oldart]

But aren't most of the flights by Eastern/Loganair?

It's under 250 pax per day for both the annual figure and the most recent March stats.
No Eastern flights now except summer Saturdays to Jersey.

[P330]

Looks like Albastar back on for the TUI Palma flights on Tuesday (had reverted to TUI in house). Flight AP5644.

[NickBarnes]

Loganair have reduced its Dublin route from 4 to 2 x weekly and Newquay reduced from 2 to 1x weekly

[Cautious Optimist]

Movements website has the Albastar as 1st week only, then TUI. Very poor regarding Dublin and Newquay, the original frequencies should have been too light to begin with.

[VickersVicount]

Loganair have reduced its Dublin route from 4 to 2 x weekly and Newquay reduced from 2 to 1x weekly
Use it or lose it! These were never going to work.

[Saabdriver1]

??

Teesside-Newquay flew last summer with a weekly flight and that’s what it now has again for this summer.

[tigertanaka]

28 MME-NQY flights in May 2021 so flights on 14 days - looks like 3 flights a week last year.

[Saabdriver1]

Eastern were flying it in the early part of summer as well, IIRC.

[tigertanaka]

Yes, Eastern operated 10 flights on the route last May, Loganair ran 18. By August (when Eastern had given up), Loganair were up to 26.

[something_diferent]

Heathrow flights gone in two weeks as well as Southampton

https://www.teessideinternational.com/news/joint-statement-from-teesside-airport-and-loganair/

[NickBarnes]

As per SeanM1997 on twitter,

Loganair to reduce Teesside base from 2 to 1 aircraft from 25 May

Southampton and London Heathrow to end on 24

Will continue to operate Aberdeen, Belfast City, Dublin and Newquay.

From personal point of view very unsurprising loads for a long time have been nowhere near good enough to sustain Heathrow especially due to rising costs. Wouldn't be surprised if some of those remaining ones don't return next summer ie Dublin and even Newquay

[Cautious Optimist]

The loads on Heathrow were getting good and still improving, Heathrow is exclusively down to costs at the Heathrow end. As for Bristol, Southampton and any future losses, there are more than enough people to use these services, it's poor awareness. Pricing and sometimes flight times are factors, but not enough to render the routes unviable. It's annoying it comes to this needlessly.

[N707ZS]

We didn't see that embarrassment coming. Hope it doesn't effect the staff other than Loganair.

[AirportPlanner1]

I don’t think anyone sensible really thought this route would remain long-term even if it was running at 100% loads. It was a marriage of convenience between a politician wanting content for his party’s leaflets, an airline willing to take an incentive and another one needing their valuable slots filled in a crisis. There were always going to be ‘legitimate’ excuses as to why it must end come the time.

I assume someone wants their slots back in time for Half Term?

[Fly757X]

The loads on Heathrow were getting good and still improving, Heathrow is exclusively down to costs at the Heathrow end. As for Bristol, Southampton and any future losses, there are more than enough people to use these services, it's poor awareness. Pricing and sometimes flight times are factors, but not enough to render the routes unviable. It's annoying it comes to this needlessly.

Loads really weren’t that impressive. Maybe impressive for MME but not when compared to across their network which at the end of the day, is what it boils down to. Fares also remained low throughout. It’s no real surprise I’m afraid.

[highwideandugly]

Yes hit the nail Airport Planner..most thought these routes would always be under threat.
As the deep pocket Loganair subsidies started to run out then the outcome was inevitable? Couple that with generally poor loads (Facebook lists 7 on aHeathrow the other day)expensive fuel and other airport slot requirements then..here is the outcome.

Interesting to see what spin is put on this by the mayor?

[SWBKCB]

Interesting to see what spin is put on this by the mayor?

All Heathrows fault - still, might speed up KLM a bit...

This is daylight robbery, and it is disgraceful that Heathrow is attempted to line its own pockets at the expense of not just those passengers who regularly used the service but at the expense of everyone living in the region. This decision shows its disregard for regional connectivity and how Heathrow has turned its back on the North by pricing out regional airport connectivity. I will be writing to the Government to investigate the increased fees from Heathrow, which go directly against the Government’s levelling up agenda. Heathrow cannot be allowed to get away with such a blatant disregard for regional connectivity if it wants to call itself the UK’s airport

[highwideandugly]

I suppose the amount of money also being spent Bon the local railway stations and train services would..in the future have a huge impact on the Heathrow route?

Dublin also reducing apparently along with a reduced frequency on the Newquay route.
Belfast usage fees have also recently increased .watch this space.

On a better note apparently the Draken contract will see a massive boost to movements as new aircraft are delivered this week?

[davidjohnson6]

Thinking of having one last ride between LHR and MME - anyone else interested ?
I do not think a route to London will return for a considerable period of time

[SWBKCB]

Is it just me or are some of the quotes a bit odd?.Phil Forster, Managing Director of Teesside International Airport, said: “I’d like to thank all of our loyal passengers who have been supporting this service since its launch and apologise for the inconvenience this will cause. Rising costs across the industry have meant that the route is no longer viable and not something we could support without passing that on to our passengers.

Kay Ryan, Chief Commercial Officer for Loganair, said: “I am extremely disappointed that Loganair will no longer provide a London Heathrow service due to rising costs, and completely understand the decision taken for all the reasons outlined.

Thought airlines decided on routes and prices?

[Cat Techie]

Is it just me or are some of the quotes a bit odd?.



Thought airlines decided on routes and prices?
PSO routes tend to be at the whim of the sponsor.

[SWBKCB]

PSO routes tend to be at the whim of the sponsor.

That may well be, but this isn't a PSO route. Allegedly no subsidies

[Cat Techie]

That may well be, but this isn't a PSO route. Allegedly no subsidies
Whatever, it seems it wasn't profitable for the airline.

[jmdavies86]

Southampton and London Heathrow to end on 24

Will continue to operate Aberdeen, Belfast City, Dublin and Newquay.

Although MME-ABZ will continue, the ending of the MME-SOU route does of course mean that SOU-ABZ (via MME) will no longer be served as well.

[Cautious Optimist]

If they can axe NCL-ABZ then they don't value any of their routes

[highwideandugly]

Sadly..plenty of subsidies…and they are all starting to run out!

Draken and Willis not sure…but at least they do generate some business?

Fire School..yes..plenty of business and revenue..but don’t fit into the (flawed) business model !

[N707ZS]

Sadly..plenty of subsidies…and they are all starting to run out!

Fire School..yes..plenty of business and revenue..but don’t fit into the (flawed) business model !

What is the business model.

[Buster the Bear]

https://bdaily.co.uk/articles/2022/05/10/tui-takes-off-from-teesside-airport-for-first-time-in-almost-a-decade

[N707ZS]

I bet he ate that cake!

[jmdavies86]

All Heathrows fault - still, might speed up KLM a bit...

Seen on LinkedIn this morning that KLM have announced they're increasing up to twice-daily flights from/to MME.

[P330]

Yes, twice a day starting from 23 May; once a day on weekends.

Also looks like the weekday morning rotation will be on the bigger E190 during July and August.

Latest date for 3 x daily is first week in September.

[22/04]

Why can KLM make interchange via AMS work when we can't make a UK solution via LHR work?

[tigertanaka]

I have thought about this quite a bit and I think there are a few reasons:

1) Heathrow's landing fees make it difficult to make money with small aircraft.
2) The cost of slots (pre-covid) make it every expensive for a regional airline to start a Heathrow operation to provide feed
3) Amsterdam has 6 runways (5 of which are mainly used by airlines), Heathrow has 2 which means lack of spare capacity (and the high slot fees)
4) BA's union agreement prevents them from using smaller planes at Heathrow (apart from in exceptional circumstances) - going to be hard to fill a 180 seat plane on LHR-MME/NQY/IOM/CWL etc
5) BA can get more lucrative feed for the transatlantic services from elsewhere in Europe
6) Amsterdam is one giant terminal, Heathrow is almost 4 different airports. As T5 is full, more services into LHR means more people having to get on a bus to change terminals which is not a great experience

[SWBKCB]

In addition to the above, KLM have devoted years to building up their regional flying in the UK, and have a suitable sized fleet. BA haven't

[highwideandugly]

Or maybe not enough customers either..especially with increased competition from the railways ?

[Get me some traffic]

Always the way to make money in aviation, "Water under the wings."

[davidjohnson6]

This week, I flew MME-LHR on a 49 seat E145. It was just me and 5 other pax, or 12% load factor. Fares about £90 oneway about 2 days in advance.
Maybe I picked an offpeak date, but this suggests to me the route has some serious issues.

Darlington-London trains are excellent. Even Eaglescliffe-London direct trains are OK. Maybe having AMS as the sole hub connection is for the best.

[N707ZS]

In the good old days both KLM and BMA used to bring in freight, presume that wouldn't be practical these days.

[highwideandugly]

This week, I flew MME-LHR on a 49 seat E145. It was just me and 5 other pax, or 12% load factor. Fares about £90 oneway about 2 days in advance.
Maybe I picked an offpeak date, but this suggests to me the route has some serious issues.

Darlington-London trains are excellent. Even Eaglescliffe-London direct trains are OK. Maybe having AMS as the sole hub connection is for the best.

I suppose,that is the main reason the route is finished in a few days.
Not just Heathrow charges..but wrong aircraft..too small…and not enough passengers, a common problem in recent years at Teesside?

Someone being a bit ingenious blaming just Heathrow?

[Fly757X]

I suppose,that is the main reason the route is finished in a few days.
Not just Heathrow charges..but wrong aircraft..too small…and not enough passengers, a common problem in recent years at Teesside?

Someone being a bit ingenious blaming just Heathrow?

The aircraft was too small? There was 5 onboard. Sure, with more seats you could offer somewhat lower fares but there quite clearly was just no appetite to use the service. Fares remained considerable lower when compared to the offering across the LM network.

[Cautious Optimist]

As usual the keyboard warriors know best. That load of six was a rare exception, loads had been very good of late and the route was making small increases week on week, and generally heading in the right direction...all with minimal marketing

[NickBarnes]

As usual the keyboard warriors know best. That load of six was a rare exception, loads had been very good of late and the route was making small increases week on week, and generally heading in the right direction...all with minimal marketing

It really wasn't that rare, but anyway it's gone and won't be returning end of story.

[Cautious Optimist]

I see the numbers, I can assure you it was

[highwideandugly]

So anyone know what the Southampton loads were like..I suppose you should really add them into the equation ?

[Jamesair1]

Whatever the numbers, LM must have been unable to see a profit materialising any time soon, hence the closing of the route.

[NickBarnes]

I see the numbers, I can assure you it was

From my brother who used the route weekly last 6 months. Crew he spoke too did say there were higher numbers flights ie in the 20's and 30's your right but also told him management had recently said internally it was underperforming and ideally needed high 30's on flights to even break even with ever rising costs. but all too often flights with these loads below, which is obvious why Loganair said enough was enough. Always have understood Loganair Management was very open internally with its employees about routes and how they performed etc when asked.

Last couple of weeks he used it before switching back to Newcastle and BA

Mon April 11th - 10 Pax LHR - MME
Thurs April - 13 Pax MME - LHR
Mon April 18th - 5 Pax LHR - MME
Thurs April 21st - 16 Pax MME - LHR

[Cautious Optimist]

Average pax since 22/04 is 23 inbound, 25 outbound

[Jamesair1]

If LM need high 30's loads to break even.....and are getting an average of say 24 pax per flt....result....a loss on every rotation.

[Albert Hall]

Isn't the answer to all of this in the quotes in post 1108 above? If you read what is said, it's pretty clear that MME has been supporting the route financially and that the decision to pull it is theirs and not Loganair's? That's the only way I can interpret what's being said here as there's no other explanation for a choice of words on both sides which seem to be quite carefully chosen.

[Cautious Optimist]

If LM need high 30's loads to break even.....and are getting an average of say 24 pax per flt....result....a loss on every rotation.
It would have got there

[AirportPlanner1]

It would have got there

And even if it got there it was only going to last as long as the slots weren’t required by whoever owns them.

[onion]

It's quite simple really. You ll never make money into LHR with a 50 seat aircraft when they charge high fees.
It's obvious that LHR would never last. Loganair were basically sitting on the slots and were paying for the lower landing fees at LHR, any subsidy or lack of charge (no one honestly knows) from MME was making it just about viable from what can be seen, as soon as LHR put the prices up its was never going to last.
LHR could work but would need to be marketed well, on an aircraft that makes fares competitive ie 130+ seat, at least twice a day but more realistically 3 times a day.
Add to the mix Covid, which has changed working patterns and the lack of full service airlines operating that size of aircraft with access to and the willingness to use slots on a MME-LHR and the likelihood is LHR a pipe dream. Its basic economics.
Remember how BMI manipulated the LHR when it was running in the 15-20,000 a month and managed to run the service into the ground by simply putting an Embraer on the route and messing with the timings, once they pulled off the route the 145s didnt then stay at LHR to use those slots vacated by the MME.

[SWBKCB]

I see the numbers, I can assure you it was

LM and the airport "see the numbers" and have decided that the route isn't viable.

Suggest you get working on your business plan. :ok:

[virginblue]

So has LM grandfathered the LHR slots used for the MME service by now?

To me, it always looked like a pretty smart business move for regional airlines such as Loganair or Aurigny to pick up some of the LHR-slots freed up by COVID19 and try to grandfather them by opening short'ish domestic routes with the help of unsuspecting local authorities willing to cough up subsidies - for a service the airline never intended to operate in the long tern, but only to be able to cash in on those slots as soon as demand at LHR picked up gain and carriers that had to give up slots at LHR were interested in resuming services and forking out money to get hold of slots again.

[SWBKCB]

Little information as to the slots that were being used, but I'd be surprised if LM have any long term rights to them

[tigertanaka]

I heard the slots belonged to BA - 18 months ago (and with no long term slot waiver in place), BA were really concerned about losing a pile of their LHR slots so were happy to loan them out to non-competing airlines or those that they did not consider a threat.

[Cautious Optimist]

LM and the airport "see the numbers" and have decided that the route isn't viable.

Suggest you get working on your business plan. :ok:
Not sure what you're getting at here, but I was defending the potential of the route not the viability.

[highwideandugly]

But how do you measure the potential of any route to anywhere from a small regional airport with limited passengers? I don’t just mean Teesside either?

Domestic travel is in a state of flux at the moment.
Ironic really the mayor has put all this money into the airport, then puts all that money into railways..simply not enough passengers to go around?

[Saabdriver1]

The slots were allocated to Loganair by the slot coordinator and not loaned from any other airline.

Arguments above don't really make sense. If the route isn't viable with smaller aircraft due to LHR charges then flying a larger aircraft such as an A319 would need a big increase in passenger volumes to support it. Is it being said that it wouldn't work with a 145 but would work with a 319? Find that pretty hard to believe tbh.

[davidjohnson6]

When Loganair opened the MME-LHR route, what was the primary aim ? Was it to
a) Target passengers travelling between Middlesbrough and London
or
b) Target passengers travelling from Middlesbrough to places beyond London, and thus particularly keen on access to a hub

I know it's tempting to say "both" but the commercial strategy needed is different between the 2 options, and thus there was a need for somebody to choose the primary aim and take consequent actions

[onion]

The slots were allocated to Loganair by the slot coordinator and not loaned from any other airline.

Arguments above don't really make sense. If the route isn't viable with smaller aircraft due to LHR charges then flying a larger aircraft such as an A319 would need a big increase in passenger volumes to support it. Is it being said that it wouldn't work with a 145 but would work with a 319? Find that pretty hard to believe tbh.

The point is that the route would never be viable with a 145 even when full.
You can either put a larger aircraft on the route and build the numbers past what 145 holds or you utilise those slots elsewhere.
I maybe wrong, but from what I ve heard LHR has a minimum charge for aircraft so for instance a 145 cost the same as a 319 to land. If that's true then a 145 moving forward would never work out.

[P330]

DTV movements showing some interesting traffic today.

The TUI inbound from PMI (which originates Birmingham) is positioning out rather than taking the outbound to PMI. Instead, a TUI Germany is coming in to take the outbound passengers before going into Birmingham.

Then a Royal Air Maroc 738 coming in for Willis scrapping.

[N707ZS]

Wonder how much a Tui positioning flight from Stuttgart cost.

[highwideandugly]

In the Blue corner..The Mayor..in the red corner London Heathrow plc ….the war of words continues in the local press tonight!

[SWBKCB]

Did you read the one about the local GA and no hangars which they were promised.They said: "The promise of General Aviation Hangars was made by the Airport in May 2021, and confirmed in writing, when H3 was required for other purposes . During the whole of the ensuing nine months frequent and categorical assurances were given by your Airport Staff and Managing Director that the scheme was in progress and only delays were due to only technical and planning issues."

But the group says that in January they were told that it would cost £1million to replace the building, so it would not be going ahead after all. The members even responded with an alternative building plan for around £300,000, but that options was not taken up by airport bosses.

Has the new freight centre been used yet?

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20159201.aircraft-owners-evicted-teesside-airport-40-years/

[N707ZS]

Has the new freight centre been used yet?
NO not at all.

[Beafer]

Todays Echo has more about the south side work starting. £200m according to the mayor.
Is that the area which was handed over to the private owners by the mayor?

[oldart]

At least there are signs that the new South link road is progressing. Fencing is in place along the route and yesterday it was noted plant machinery were at work on new roundabout and leveling.

[jmdavies86]

Todays Echo has more about the south side work starting. £200m according to the mayor.

What's happening with International Fire Training Centre (IFTC)...?

Last I'd heard was that this new £200m development required IFTC to relocate the area where they deliver the practical elements of their fire training courses and that they'd been in talks for quite some time with the airport, but IFTC said back in February that an agreement had not yet been reached and it even threatened potential job losses because the airport were not going to renew the lease on the current site.

Anyone know whether this has now been resolved and what the outcome is/was?

[Beafer]

What's happening with International Fire Training Centre (IFTC)...?

Last I'd heard was that this new £200m development required IFTC to relocate the area where they deliver the practical elements of their fire training courses and that they'd been in talks for quite some time with the airport, but IFTC said back in February that an agreement had not yet been reached and it even threatened potential job losses because the airport were not going to renew the lease on the current site.

Anyone know whether this has now been resolved and what the outcome is/was?

Knowing how much smoke the Serco fire training rigs can produce when lit, I don't think the mayor will want it anywhere near one of his private projects. He will probably ask Serco to move it to the old steelworks site.

If the airport management try to move the training rig to the north side, the neighbours may have something to say about the smoke.

[SWBKCB]

From Esken's annual report - 2022 Final results:

the Aviation Division as a whole reported an adjusted EBITDA loss of £0.8m after £3.5m of one-off receipts in connection with Connect Airways and Teesside International Airport..

https://www.esken.com/investors/investor-news/

[highwideandugly]

April figures out..231 departing passengers per day.

Belfast almost better than Heathrow..hence cancellation?

[tigertanaka]

April CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 14,216, 13% up on April 2019 (pre covid), the best month since September 2019 and the best month of April since 2013.

Aberdeen: 1,420 (down 5% v March and down 2% v April 2021)
Belfast City: 1,172 (up 146% v March, not comparable to April 2021)
Heathrow: 1,091 (up 8% v March, not comparable to April 2021)
Newquay: 95 (not comparable to March, no pax in April 2021)
Southampton: 330 (new route)
Alicante: 2,748 (up 14% v March, best month since Ryanair returned)
Amsterdam: 2,428 (up 110% v March, no pax in April 21)
Faro: 2,332 (not comparable to March, no pax in April 2021)
Palma: 2,029 (not comparable to March, no pax in April 2021)

Plus charters to Biggin Hill (38), Bournemouth (70), Cardiff (70) and Luton (38).

Aberdeen appears to have flattened out, possibly due to Loganair finding the optimum balance of price v demand. Belfast is doing really well and 23.4 pax per flight surely points to enough demand for a daily operation. Heathrow loads improved to 18.2, the best figure since the flight was reintroduced. Neither Newquay or Southampton were particularly impressive. Loads on Alicante (153), Faro (130) and Palma (113) are all the best since Ryanair returned to Teesside. Amsterdam responded well to an improved service in April with loads of 55 passengers, impressive for a service that only ran a single each-way service on 22 days in the month.

Expect May to be near 18,000 pax, which would be an 11 year high.

[Harold77]

It is good to see numbers climbing up. Terminal Passengers and Aircraft Movements are up on April 2019 figures which is very good going forward.

Great to see Amsterdam numbers increasing as more flights have been reintroduced. It won't be til June's figures will the numbers jump big way for KLM since the twice daily flights didn't start til last week of May.

[P330]

Wonder if Brandon and the boys are arriving through the airport in the next few hours?

[P330]

Teesside Airshow on Saturday.

Line up looks good.

Presume normal operations continue alongside the show?

[Harold77]

Yes normal flights still operating.

[SWBKCB]

There's a notam closing airspace for the Reds display. Reported as a sell out. Most of the remaining residents seem to be padding out the static.

[highwideandugly]

Previous early airshows…I remember when Channel Airways/BKS Tridents movements were on the programme as slots! Happy Days !

[P330]

A raft of Ryanair winter announcements elsewhere. Not seeing anything for Teesside?

Really could see a Canary Island route working and Malaga for the summer but nothing on the horizon?

[HH6702]

A raft of Ryanair winter announcements elsewhere. Not seeing anything for Teesside?

Really could see a Canary Island route working and Malaga for the summer but nothing on the horizon?


ncl got 2 new routes and increased of AGP

Still time for Teesside

[N707ZS]

Teesside busy back slapping about the new sky bar.

[highwideandugly]

Air Show program available to link through the great DTVM website.

Looking forward to the feedback after completion…🤔

[Cautious Optimist]

Feedback will likely be 95% positive, as it has been in previous years.

[SWBKCB]

Teesside busy back slapping about the new sky bar.

Fifty odd pictures on their FB post was quite OTT - no sign of the Mayor, must have been a diary clash as he has posted pictures of himself there seperatly.

Outside viewing deck not open yet - anybody know when?

[jorvik]

Interesting thought process, can’t raise aeronautical revenue or get pax through the terminal to spend, so let’s build a bar on the side of the terminal, and hope people call in for a quick pint on the local pub crawl? Must be running out of ideas now.

Almost reminds me of the sketch on come fly with me, the landlord doing a pub quiz to keep punters in.

[Cat Techie]

Pax numbers from 2019 do not lie. If airlines cannot make profit at a place, they will pull out. See whom is left next winter season.

[N707ZS]

Air show is causing gridlock hope know one misses their flights.

[P330]

Air show is causing gridlock hope know one misses their flights.

Absolute carnage. Been stuck in the car 90 minutes and still 4 miles away.

[P330]

Well, after nearly 3 hours in the car and still being 3 miles out, not moving and 90 minutes after the first display, We’re turning around and going home.

I suspect a lot of negative press in the next few days. Such a shame and what a waste of a hard earned Saturday.

[N707ZS]

Organisation was also poor yesterday took six hours to move a plane 30 meters.

[SWBKCB]

Echo - Teesside Airshow: Chaos on A67 and A66 as drivers wait ‘three hours’ (https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20203620.teesside-airshow-chaos-a67-drivers-wait-three-hours/)

Gazette - Teesside Airshow LIVE: Traffic chaos as police arrive at scene with over 20,000 heading to event (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/teesside-airshow-live-traffic-latest-24195234)

The AA is now reporting:
Long delays and queueing traffic due to the Teeside Airshow on Roads in both directions around Teeside International Airport. There are reports of roughly two and a half hour delays in the surrounding area, as well as roads being closed by police.

Both RYR's got away with just one 20 min delay, Eastern showing a 50 min delay, though it was an hour late in!

[highwideandugly]

Feedback will likely be 95% positive, as it has been in previous years………


Good call!!

[SWBKCB]

Feedback will likely be 95% positive, as it has been in previous years………


Good call!!

So long as they only ask thse who got in! :ok:

[Cautious Optimist]

Highwideandugly was hinting at the usual complaints from die-hard enthusiasts (who make up less than 5% of the crowd) regarding lacklustre air and static display programmes (as far as they're concerned). Without checking I expect your average member of the public were perfectly satisfied with what was on offer to the tune of 95% positive feedback.

Obviously there is no excuse for the traffic chaos and I doubt we'll see another air show

[zed3]

There seems to be a hint of accuracy to HWAU's response. We motored up from Scarborough dep. 0910 and were in Yarm by 1100, queues through there and upwards to the Tesco store roundabout... about 15 mins delay. Then... a one car progression per two or three minutes and after an hour and a half we were still at least two miles from the airport. A '180' was executed and we tried to drive to the west side of the airfield and find a spot... chokka, sorry for the people in those villages. We then returned to base arriving in Scarborough SIX hours after departure. There seemed to absolutely no 'organisation' whatsoever... total chaos. For all those who pre-paid for entry tickets AND parking there should be some sort of recompense, also very sorry for all the children concerned. I'm not holding my breath. What has happened to this country? This sort of thing is commonly accepted these days and the so called 'organisers' get away scott free with the profits.
Let the word spread and the consequences fall where appropriate.
Harrumph...

[SWBKCB]

The airport were referring all queries to the organisers Skylive earlier, the Mayor has apologised I am so sorry to those people who experienced delays and were caught in the traffic on your visit to the airshow. As a result of the incredible demand and interest in our airport and the airshow, I know for many it meant hours of delays with some giving up completely and going home. I will be speaking to the organisers and the police who stopped and diverted traffic following an accident on the A66 and we’ll be conducting a full review and debrief as a matter of urgency. I will also be liaising with the organisers to do whatever I can to get refunds for those who suffered major delays or who were unable to attend as a result of the delays. I can only apologise again
Somewhat flippant response from one of the organisers...Organiser Chris Petty of SkyLive is still to officially comment on today's chaos despite being contacted by Teesside Live. However he earlier spoke to the BBC.

He said:
We've heard there's been an accident on the A66 and that's something we can't put within our plan.

We put the message out there weeks before give yourself plenty of time to get here. It's a sellout event and there's obviously going to be lots of people travelling.

It's one of them things unfortunately. If we could change things and fly everybody in then we would.

Sunderland used to manage with a few more than 20k

[highwideandugly]

Sorry..but truth is.

From Enthusiasts point of view..pathetic..nothing more, nothing less.

From the paying publics point of view..pathetic…nothing more, nothing less.

From your average Air Show point of view…well yes I won’t repeat.

Sadly the airports profile which had been on the gradual up will have taken a massive hit.

Is this an airport..or a continuing vanity project?

[Cautious Optimist]

Actually the truth is, it's not a spotter event, it's a general public event, and the general public dissatisfaction is quite rightly at the traffic arrangements and not the air show arrangements, which they are content with otherwise it wouldn't be a sell-out event. At the end of the day, I noted it would likely be a 95% positive feedback because the SAME event in the past HAS been - I wouldn't just make it up!

Again, traffic is to be condemned in the strongest possible terms, no-one is questioning that, but the comments on here and the Facebook page are nothing more than the keyboard warriors out in force who wanted the event to fail in the first place.

[P330]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-61769579

Even making national BBC page (not just the regionals).

[zed3]

CO... I hope you do not include me in this comment. I am positive to the extreme and have had 44 years very active experience in aviation. This was PR disaster, whomsoever is responsible. We, the public, attend and pay good money to support these events and expect service and support in response. This was totally lacking in all aspects.

[SWBKCB]

The airport statement saying the "...Airshow has been a victim of its own success.." is going down well... :eek:

[Cautious Optimist]

zed3 I must be including you because as said, the event is well received amongst the target audience when traffic goes to plan.

[mmeman]

It was not pathetic - huge issues for some people getting in and out but for the many people who were there, it was a good day. The airshow was never billed as an 'enthusiasts' airshow, it is an event for the general public, it is not RIAT- and also the tickets were £11 - not the £50 - £60 for RIAT. I was there, everyone around me enjoyed the flying dispalys - you cant get better than The Reds and Typhoon as general dispaly items - there was quite a bit going on on the ground and the usual airshow fairground rides - it seems to me again that people who just want to moan and have a go, latch onto any little bit of bad publicity, probably political as usual too. It is a massive shame that the organisation around the traffic management failed and with the bad publicity, I hope I am wrong, but dont think the airport will want to be associated with such bad publicity and the airshow will probably not happen again - but for the people who made it in, it was not pathetic.

[Cautious Optimist]

Well said mmeman. The alternative is nothing at all, so something is better than nothing (even if some would settle for nothing after today)

[SWBKCB]

You guys need to look at the local (and now national) media coverage, as well as what is being said on social media - and this is the general public, not spotters.

Not just the horrendous traffic problems, but expensive food, stalls only accepting cash as 3G crashed, dirty toilets etc. And then this evening problems getting out.

Yes, people will always moan but a major own goal. Hopefully the Reds and Typhoon saved the day for many.

[horatio_b]

I wasn't at today's event so cannot comment on the arrangements, but the most recent airshow I attended was at Biggin Hill which had a large crowd and no traffic issues.
The traffic was moved via a feeder lane onto the airfield estate where a long winding route ensured that there was no tailback onto the main road. The cars were parked very efficiently by marshals onto several acres of land. Once parked up the visitors could collect their belongings and go through the entrance to the show where tickets were checked. I suspect the problems at today's event might have been due to tickets being checked on entry which would inevitably lead to congestion on the main road.

[mmeman]

I have read social media - I totally understand the frustration about the traffic issues and I would have been devestated if I had got caught up in it- but please also read the comments from other people - the toilets were not dirty, the food was priced as you would expect from these events - the 3G issue is unfortunate, but many many people had a really good day out - it took our party around 1.5 hours to get out of the car park at the end - not ideal but again not the end of the world - and once off the airport site - no traffic at all!

[Cautious Optimist]

SWBKCB people wouldn't have been quite so vocal about those other issues if not for the traffic, I find those other things are more or less the norm at any major event.

[highwideandugly]

I’m not really sure what to say.

It was billed as an air show..that was a shambles
It was billed as a ground show…that was a shambles
It was billed as an enjoyable day out..5 years in the planning (ish)..that was a shambles
It was billed as a showpiece to get the airport up and running again …that was a shambles
It was billed as a great PR exercise for the region..that was a shambles

So ..please .. tell me what good has come out of this?

Ok..that’s all negative and me,personally,apologise.

[P330]

Let me give my perspective...and I am one who didn’t make it in and had to turn around with a very disappointed family in tow.

1) I was happy to pay for the display advertised. It wasn’t the best, but it was good, local and with plenty of ground activities to keep us occupied.

2). I expect to pay a lot for food. That’s life at events and country shows in the UK. Do I like it? No. Do I moan about it? No, it’s normal.

3). I expected traffic; that’s why I set off early. Last week I spent an hour trying to get out of a car park at the Killers gig. (And I paid over the odds for drinks and didn’t moan).


The issue today has been the poor event management. Made worse by the poor response from the organiser and made worse still by the positive spin, hype and messages that preceded the event by the media savvy mayor.

Its an own goal; a big own goal and negative voices will always win out in the press and on social media.

The mayor, surprisingly, to his credit has apologised and said he will be do his best to get refunds and will investigate the cause. That’s not the norm for Houchen who generally sticks to smiles and mugshots.

For those who got in, hope you had a good time - I’m jealous.

For those that didn’t, I share your pain.

Lets not become doom sayers though. The organiser is not covering himself in glory at the moment and it’s likely we’ve seen the last attempt at this.

And the ones who suffer? All of us....

We shouldn’t take pleasure in that...

[Cautious Optimist]

P330s post is a perfect summary. Highwide I don't need to respond to you further, you've said nothing new compared to your previous post that hasn't already been more than adequately discredited.

[N707ZS]

Well now thats over someone seriously needs to start looking for some winter charters and expansion next year.

And if they build the industrial units on the South side that removes the display area by my calculations.

[highwideandugly]

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous post..so what good actually did come out of it(the air show)?

As a PR exercise for the airport it remains an ongoing disaster.

Blinkers are optional guys…

[10 DME ARC]

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/20203896.teesside-airshow-ryanair-majorca-passengers-walk-along-a67/

Don't look to have only effected airshow participants..........

[Cautious Optimist]

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous post
And I refer you to mine

CO (blinkers off and never on in the first place)

[Beafer]

More on the airshow parking fiasco. They only had 5,600 spaces available, with an extra 1,900 as a contingency! I think there were 29,000 tickets sold. Maybe the people running the show thought people would hop on a train?

Details of how much the Mayor paid out to hold the car parking show, and who was involved in the supposed planning. :ugh:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/investigation-airshow-gridlock-debacle-made-24214739

[N707ZS]

The main point.
The Tees Valley Combined Authority (TVCA) contributed £100,000 towards the airshow - with £20,000 put towards the event initially cancelled due to the pandemic in 2020, and £80,000 granted from its culture and tourism budget. Officials also said the organisers paid £50,000 to hold the event at publicly-owned Teesside Airport.

[N707ZS]

Airport seems to have gone back to not using a tug for some flights.

[highwideandugly]

Was that Ryanair flights? Keeping their costs down if so?

[Cat Techie]

Was that Ryanair flights? Keeping their costs down if so?
Yeph. Why push back when you have loads of apron to use and no one else is.

[SWBKCB]

Yeph. Why push back when you have loads of apron to use and no one else is.

Is this from the new handling company?

[AirportPlanner1]

The main point.

Private Eye have covered the airshow. Little surprise, Skylive were newly incorporated in 2019 but donated to Houchen. It’s director is also MD of the company that was awarded the airport’s IT contract. Standard modus operandi for this bunch.

[highwideandugly]

Oh dear..not good reading methinks!

[toon22]

Don’t you just love Private Eye!! And to think that the mayor had only the interests of his aviation-loving constituents in mind.Why do I have the feeling this won’t be the last revelation?

[P330]

Yes, twice a day starting from 23 May; once a day on weekends.

Also looks like the weekday morning rotation will be on the bigger E190 during July and August.

Latest date for 3 x daily is first week in September.

KLM 3 daily delayed again from early September until w/c 31st October.

I won’t question the logic but this perennial changing of the schedules must be hurting bookings. Lots of business people on the 6am
now using Newcastle. I have a KLM booked in a few weeks and chose Newcastle because I wasn’t confident in the MME schedule. Looks like the right move as I would have been bumped onto another rotation or rebooked to NCL. Until there is a stable schedule (that is what they offer for sale actually operates), I’ll be using Newcastle and that’s such a shame.

[N707ZS]

I see even Humberside now has the night stopping KLM aircraft, starting to wonder if aviation isn't the main option at Teesside again.

[SWBKCB]

Doubt whether the airport has much say in KLM's schedule, but given their long standing association with the airports mentioned, they will know their market and where there is money to be made.

[highwideandugly]

Amsterdam a bit of a mess at moment.However last few days has seen the Teesside schedule back down to one again?

As you say not good for planning.Newcastle appears generally still to have the full 4 per day schedule.

Not just here though..a lot of rotations have been cancelled system wide.

[zed3]

I used to be able to book LBA to AMS with KLM for between 130-150 pounds return but two weeks ago was quoted L1200+ probably due to the problems in Amsterdam. They seemingly want to discourage people from flying, Logical and clever really.

[davidjohnson6]

Dutch Govt wants to reduce the annual number of movements at AMS from 500,000 to 440,000
Routes operated by an Embraer are clearly up for serious review. Could MME survive KLM cutting a daily rotation to just a single daily B737 ?

[Buster the Bear]

The expansion of Lelystad Airport was driven by Amsterdam Airport Schiphol reaching its maximum 500,000 allowed aircraft movements.

[P330]

And today’s Schipol news of reductions to 440k likely signals a change of stance for those smaller routes.

[skyman771]

And today’s Schipol news of reductions to 440k likely signals a change of stance for those smaller routes.

That may be, but fundamentally, the basics for the residents of the DTV catchment area which have not changed are "use it or lose it"......

[P330]

That may be, but fundamentally, the basics for the residents of the DTV catchment area which have not changed are "use it or lose it"......

Agree completely. But when around 50% of advertised flights on sale 4 months out fail to operate, there will be lots of uncertainty around those who could use it making booking choices.

[N707ZS]

Teesside Airshow refund process begins after traffic chaos saw huge numbers miss out - Teesside Live (gazettelive.co.uk) (https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-airshow-refund-process-begins-24339373)

Main point.
(b) TIA is very unlikely to host another airshow on its site in the future, without significant reassurance and comfort from key public sector stakeholders and any future event manager that all issues raised within this report would be addressed. TIA’s plans to increase passenger numbers and make the airport more sustainable in the long term are key to its future. We cannot host any further events outside our core activities which could negatively impact on our service to our customers. Increased flights and passenger numbers will lead to more vehicles coming to and from the airport (although not in such concentrations as those attending the airshow), and we will continue to work with all relevant parties, informed in part by the lessons learnt here, to ensure that disruption of this kind does not happen again at the airport. Phil Forster Managing Director Teesside International Airport Limited Dated 27th June 2022

[Jamesair1]

CAA..... MAY 22 pax stats are now available

[The Flying Stool]

Darlington Police are reporting damage caused to an aircraft at Teesside airport on 26th June by ten males who subsequently drove off!Thats a worrying issue if that is the case. How? Does anyone have any info?

[SWBKCB]

A spokesperson for Teesside International Airport added: “An incident occurred on Sunday night during which time vandals gained access to a landside area of the site, away from the operational airfield where the retired aircraft was being stored in a field. We can confirm that they did not gain access to the airside area.

What?!

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-airport-increase-security-patrols-24357887

[The Flying Stool]

That suggests either the Trident on the Serco site or the ex RAM 737 thats on south side at present.

[SWBKCB]

£200,000 worth of damage to a Trident?! :ok:

[P330]

Must be a Willis aircraft surely?

And they got inside?

[highwideandugly]

Didn’t they change the security set up last year. Think they took it in house, which upset the then local based company?

[HH6702]

There a tic tok of the RAM with people inside

[Cautious Optimist]

Didn’t they change the security set up last year. Think they took it in house, which upset the then local based company?

The firm in question was never responsible for the area the 737 is in, and frankly we're better off without them

[N707ZS]

There a tic tok of the RAM with people inside
Wasn't that last time when the kids got in the ex SAS and Fiji 737s.

[Cautious Optimist]

Wasn't that last time when the kids got in the ex SAS and Fiji 737s.
No it clearly shows the RAM

[N707ZS]

Just watched it before it disappeared.

[highwideandugly]

Yeh saw that.very strange behaviour?

Maybe the old security took over air show traffic management 😀

KLM’s problems continue at Amsterdam.After numerous cancellations this week,there are no flights at all from Teesside today and one cancelled from Newcastle..and other airports also..

Could be a summer to avoid relying on Amsterdam!

[highwideandugly]

Weird story..suspect Willis won’t be too happy that someone has damaged their investment?

[N707ZS]

Airport now saying its not on the airfield and they have hired Sparta Security of TV fame.

[tigertanaka]

May CAA stats:

Terminal passengers: 17,459, 28% up on May 2019 (pre covid), the best month for passenger traffic since March 2011.

Aberdeen: 1,787 (up 26% v April and up 6% v May 2021)
Belfast City: 733 (down 37% v April, up 103% v May 2021)
Jersey: 206 (not flown in April, up 415% v May 2021)
Heathrow: 1,326 (up 22% v April, up 111% v May 2021)
Newquay: 137 (up 137% v April, down 61% v May 2021)
Southampton: 284 (down 14% v April, not flown in May 2021)
Alicante: 2,905 (up 6% v April, again the best month since Ryanair returned)
Amsterdam: 3,753 (up 55% v April, no pax in May 2021)
Bourgas: 238 (first flight since Sep 2019)
Dublin: 240 (not comparable with April - new route)
Faro: 2,341 (+0% v April, no pax in May 2021)
Palma: 3,509 (+73% v April, no pax in May 2021)

Plus charter to Lourdes (188).

Aberdeen is strong with loads of 19.2 passengers, it is not hitting the numbers when Eastern & Loganair were going head-to-head but excluding those times, it was the route's best month since July 2018. Belfast looks poor but this is more down to the reduced number of rotations than loads, which were strong. Newquay was pretty poor, maybe this route needs more than a weekly operation?

Amsterdam loads were really good but operating 1 flight a day meant that loads were still only 1/3 of the pre-covid period. Do not read too much into the 238 people on the Bourgas route, this was effectively only one flight. All the Ryanair routes performed well and Palma (first month of Ryanair & TUI going head-to-head) had an average load of 146 pax, well up on recent months,

Loads on Alicante (153), Faro (130) and Palma (113) are all the best since Ryanair returned to Teesside. Amsterdam responded well to an improved service in April with loads of 55 passengers, impressive for a service that only ran a single each-way service on 22 days in the month.

Expect June to be the first time since October 2010 where the airport has seen over 20,000 pax in a single month.

[P330]

Great figures!

Can I just check a figure; your opening line says pax of 20,880 and your last line says expect June to be over 20k for the first time since... Is the May number wrong?

Thanks for sharing.

[SWBKCB]

I was thinking the same about the 20k.

I wonder how those RYR figures compare with the rest of their network?

[highwideandugly]

338 departing passengers per day.
Up from 231 in April..

[GrahamK]

With the Dutch Govt putting a flight cap on AMS, how worried are we that the KLM AMS-MME flight may not survive? (Other smaller routes such as HUY,INV, SOU may also be worried).

[SKOJB]

With the Dutch Govt putting a flight cap on AMS, how worried are we that the KLM AMS-MME flight may not survive? (Other smaller routes such as HUY,INV, SOU may also be worried)..

SOU airport is doing fine thanks very much!

[tigertanaka]

Great figures!

Can I just check a figure; your opening line says pax of 20,880 and your last line says expect June to be over 20k for the first time since... Is the May number wrong?

Thanks for sharing.

I was thinking the same about the 20k.

I wonder how those RYR figures compare with the rest of their network?

My mistake, it was 17,459 (now corrected).

[SWBKCB]

I wonder how those RYR figures compare with the rest of their network?

Europe's biggest budget airline was likely to end this month with just over 15 million passengers, up from 14.24 million in April, which compared to just 1.04 million in April 2021, O'Leary told Reuters. He expected the load factor to edge up to 92% in May from 91% in April.

Reuters - Ryanair sees over 15 million passengers in May, summer bookings strong (https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ryanair-sees-over-15-mln-passengers-may-load-factor-rising-through-summer-2022-05-25/)

[P330]

So, whilst out loads are good, you always worry with Ryanair whether they are good enough and certainly they’re below those averages quoted in the article.

Would love to see a couple of Canary Islans routes added.

[SWBKCB]

So, whilst our loads are good, you always worry with Ryanair whether they are good enough and certainly they’re below those averages quoted in the article.



Alicante 153 = 81%, Faro 130 = 69% and Palma 113 = 60%

[AirLCY]

Alicante 153 = 81%, Faro 130 = 69% and Palma 113 = 60%

in Ryanair terms, none of those are good, so hopefully they pick up for July onwards