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Southampton-3

Old 16th Jun 2023, 20:15
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Originally Posted by stewyb
official opening is September
Can I ask where you got this info from?,latest email from the construction team is mid August for completion ,so official opening in September seems rather optimistic !
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Old 16th Jun 2023, 20:56
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Originally Posted by RW20
Can I ask where you got this info from?,latest email from the construction team is mid August for completion ,so official opening in September seems rather optimistic !
You can ask but I won’t say, my previous posts are accurate
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Old 16th Jun 2023, 22:36
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Originally Posted by RW20
Can I ask where you got this info from?,latest email from the construction team is mid August for completion ,so official opening in September seems rather optimistic !
Sorry to be pedantic, what is defined as “completion”? If I were AGS I am not going to pay the final invoice until my surveyors have confirmed that I have the 164 metres that I am paying for, the runway markings are in accordance with plans approved by CAA and the AGL changes are firstly in accordance with the CAA approved project plans and secondly have been successfully flight checked. That’s what I’d define as “completion”.

In line with my definition I’d be planning the official opening in September.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 06:18
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So will runway 02 be finally be getting an ILS and some proper approach lighting? The lighting could do with upgrading at the other end as well. If not that will knock off some significant time, as nothing needs setting up apart from the PAPI lights.

So what will be the RVR at both ends once the work is finished?
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 06:31
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Sorry to be pedantic, what is defined as “completion”? If I were AGS I am not going to pay the final invoice until my surveyors have confirmed that I have the 164 metres that I am paying for, the runway markings are in accordance with plans approved by CAA and the AGL changes are firstly in accordance with the CAA approved project plans and secondly have been successfully flight checked. That’s what I’d define as “completion”.

In line with my definition I’d be planning the official opening in September.

Interesting point - does anybody know if this is actually what is meant by 'completion'? Is it the delivery of the physical infrastructure, i.e. once the point is dry on the revised runway markings, or the day the extension is officially/legally available for use, or possibly a number of points inbetween.

Anybody know how these contracts nornmally work? Is the contractor just responsible for the physical infrastructure or do are do they deliver a total solution - presumably this would involve integration into the operators existing processes and procedures? As you can tell, don't have much knowledge of how these sorts of projects are delivered!
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 07:18
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Well it won't be when it can be officially used as that is out of the control of the builder.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 08:24
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Ref #1590, any guesses as to easyjet destinations being announced?
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 08:52
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
There hasn't been any progress updates on the airport's extension APP since the 25 May. With the fine weather that we are currently experiencing surely it wouldn't be too difficult to get some drone footage of the current status of the runway extension.
Share your sentiments. After the much heralded approval of the project following the protracted legal wrangling, due to the lack of regular construction updates that were inferred by provision of the app, it’s ended up a bit of a PR damp squib.

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 17th Jun 2023 at 10:32.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 09:11
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB

………. Anybody know how these contracts nornmally work? Is the contractor just responsible for the physical infrastructure or do are do they deliver a total solution - presumably this would involve integration into the operators existing processes and procedures? As you can tell, don't have much knowledge of how these sorts of projects are delivered!
As the runway extension project is subject to the CAA’s CAP 791 three stage infrastructure change process I suspect that some form of staged payment process will have been written in related to completion of the stages. In this respect the final part of the CAP 791 process “Completion” requires:

”On completion of the change, the aerodrome operator should confirm to the CAA that it meets the agreed design criteria and is fit for purpose.”

Once AGS submit the relevant documents to satisfy this requirement , after a post construction survey and AGL flight check, and CAA rubber stamp it the contractor gets a final payment, less possibly a nominal sum held back to cover any faults that may arise in the first few months of operational use.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 09:41
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
You are right, however efficient the construction, the final hurdle (bureaucracy) in all fields can be the most frustrating.

Its not a case of being anti SOU, SEN or anywhere else, its just a reality check.
From personal experience agree that the CAA are not renowned for their work rate, they expect you, the customer, to respond expeditiously but do not themselves reciprocate.

As they already have most of the required project data, there is just the proof required in the CAP 791 Completion stage to be signed off. They’ve had the project schedule for months so surely someone has already pencilled in a time slot for the Completion review. AGS will have paid them mega bucks for their time on this project, so can expect something in return for it.

The CAA website specifies a 10 day service level for response to correspondence, if only an initial “we are on the case”. Even if they go this way, if all the required proof is contained in the final documents submitted by AGS, I would be still be expecting a formal opening in September, with availability of the improved declared distances published by NOTAM prior to it.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 10:10
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Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
Ref #1590, any guesses as to easyjet destinations being announced?
No real need for guesses is there 🙄

I'm in no way suggesting or implying that EasyJet are to announce further routes from Southampton regardless of the obvious post's on here. I will wait for the day until an official statement is made by EasyJet as I am not the type of person who takes rumours seriously. But if and when EasyJet do announce further routes from Southampton I would imagine that they will be the obvious choices as in.

Alicante
Faro
Malaga
Palma

With the addition of Edinburgh if EasyJet decided to maintain domestic flights to Southampton.

And "maybe" possibly other potential destinations in the future such as,

Barcelona
Berlin
Ibiza
Milan
Nice
Venice

Some people are posting on here as if they have inside knowledge which with some posters is clearly untrue.

Everyone has to wait until Christmas Day to open their Christmas presents so I'm sure those who are interested in any expansion plans by EasyJet will just have to wait in a similar fashion until something is officially announced by the airline.

Let's all put a halt to this as it's getting boring 😴
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 10:29
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
No real need for guesses is there 🙄

I'm in no way suggesting or implying that EasyJet are to announce further routes from Southampton regardless of the obvious post's on here. I will wait for the day until an official statement is made by EasyJet as I am not the type of person who takes rumours seriously. But if and when EasyJet do announce further routes from Southampton I would imagine that they will be the obvious choices as in.

Alicante
Faro
Malaga
Palma

With the addition of Edinburgh if EasyJet decided to maintain domestic flights to Southampton.

And "maybe" possibly other potential destinations in the future such as,

Barcelona
Berlin
Ibiza
Milan
Nice
Venice

Some people are posting on here as if they have inside knowledge which with some posters is clearly untrue.

Everyone has to wait until Christmas Day to open their Christmas presents so I'm sure those who are interested in any expansion plans by EasyJet will just have to wait in a similar fashion until something is officially announced by the airline.

Let's all put a halt to this as it's getting boring 😴
I was only asking a question and this is a rumour site, if you don’t like it you can post elsewhere. Also stewyb has been right on other occasions when it comes to airport info
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 10:37
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
No real need for guesses is there 🙄

I'm in no way suggesting or implying that EasyJet are to announce further routes from Southampton regardless of the obvious post's on here. I will wait for the day until an official statement is made by EasyJet as I am not the type of person who takes rumours seriously. But if and when EasyJet do announce further routes from Southampton I would imagine that they will be the obvious choices as in.

Alicante
Faro
Malaga
Palma

With the addition of Edinburgh if EasyJet decided to maintain domestic flights to Southampton.

And "maybe" possibly other potential destinations in the future such as,

Barcelona
Berlin
Ibiza
Milan
Nice
Venice

Some people are posting on here as if they have inside knowledge which with some posters is clearly untrue.
Indeed - and the rather big IF is that should Easyjet decide to add more routes flying in to, and out of SOU, then it will only be from the places where the EasyJet Group have based aircraft and crews;
ie: such as those flights currently served from GVA which are operated by easyJet Switzerland, and those from BFS and GLA are by EasyJet UK.
Any other routes such as PMI, VCE, AGP, ALC FAO etc would be operated by EasyJet Europe's based aircraft (No IBZ or MLA bases BTW) and likely many would be summer only.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 11:19
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Originally Posted by LTNman
So will runway 02 be finally be getting an ILS and some proper approach lighting? The lighting could do with upgrading at the other end as well. If not that will knock off some significant time, as nothing needs setting up apart from the PAPI lights.

So what will be the RVR at both ends once the work is finished?
Apart from slightly improved declared distances on RWY 02, there will be no change to its operating characteristics.

ILS on RWY 02 is not going to happen, any operational improvements that it may result are so small that it is not financially viable. The way forward will be a RNP IAP, with LPV minima when the UK is able to sort something out to replace the EGNOS satellite constellation which we lost access to on leaving the EU.

If a precision IAP ever happens on RWY 02 the PAPI are not going to need modification unless the GP is to be raised above the current angle.

RVR minima for both runways unaffected by the extension. With "intermediate" level of approach lighting on both runways the current EU-OPS approach minima for a CAT C aircraft (ie A320/A319) should be around 700 metres (RWY 20) and 1600 metres (RWY 02). Expenditure on improved lighting may be welcomed by aircrew, due to the land constraints off either end of the runway any possible improvements to approach lighting will not impact the approach minima, so a business case for it simply does not stack up.

If you can produce evidence that I, and others, have got the likely operational date for the extension wrong, you can revel in a "I told you so" post! If not please take the rest of the SOU runway extension project off from this thread.

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 17th Jun 2023 at 14:06. Reason: Minor correction
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 11:32
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Final post on this subject from me also. Extension completion planned for mid-end July, official opening diarised for 21st Sept

Last edited by stewyb; 17th Jun 2023 at 11:47.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 12:05
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Originally Posted by stewyb
Final post on this subject from me also. Extension completion planned for mid-end July, official opening diarised for 21st Sept
Hopefully that's also the last we hear on the subject from LTNman.

If you have any influence on the issue, rather than some transient local civic person or "personality" to formally open it, my nomination for someone who devoted his whole working life to the airport is at post 1597.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 15:08
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Hopefully that's also the last we hear on the subject from LTNman.

If you have any influence on the issue, rather than some transient local civic person or "personality" to formally open it, my nomination for someone who devoted his whole working life to the airport is at post 1597.
Although I don't personally know Barry Friend I'm aware of who he is. He has a fine collection of photos on airbritain.com and the BCAL and BIA remembered sites of aircraft at Southampton Airport from the 1960s upto the 1990s before the current terminal was completed. Good to know he is still around.
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Old 17th Jun 2023, 17:40
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Hopefully that's also the last we hear on the subject from LTNman.

If you have any influence on the issue, rather than some transient local civic person or "personality" to formally open it, my nomination for someone who devoted his whole working life to the airport is at post 1597.
Originally Posted by SouthernAlliance
I was only asking a question and this is a rumour site, if you don’t like it you can post elsewhere. Also stewyb has been right on other occasions when it comes to airport info
"If you don't like it you can post elsewhere" 🤔

I don't think that you are in any position to inform me of that. This maybe a "so called rumour" site but the majority of posts on pprune are actually factual rather than based on a rumour. I should imagine that 99% of the posts on here are not actually based on rumours. But then your always going to get certain individuals who thrive on rumours, I personally are not one of those

I'm not disputing stewyb, quite the contrary as he is without doubt one of best on pprune with regards to Southampton Airport in a similar fashion to TCAS FAN.

FYI.... I've been posting on pprune for over 12 years, probably more, I don't need anyone telling me that I should post elsewhere just because I appreciate the facts over persistent rumours.

I along with everyone else who has an interest in the development of Southampton Airport wants to see EasyJet expand from the airport. But the endless questions around EasyJet and when will they announce routes is like a kid in the back seat asking over and over again "are we there yet dad".
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Old 18th Jun 2023, 15:34
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Originally Posted by Sotonsean
"If you don't like it you can post elsewhere" 🤔

I don't think that you are in any position to inform me of that. This maybe a "so called rumour" site but the majority of posts on pprune are actually factual rather than based on a rumour. I should imagine that 99% of the posts on here are not actually based on rumours. But then your always going to get certain individuals who thrive on rumours, I personally are not one of those

I'm not disputing stewyb, quite the contrary as he is without doubt one of best on pprune with regards to Southampton Airport in a similar fashion to TCAS FAN.

FYI.... I've been posting on pprune for over 12 years, probably more, I don't need anyone telling me that I should post elsewhere just because I appreciate the facts over persistent rumours.

I along with everyone else who has an interest in the development of Southampton Airport wants to see EasyJet expand from the airport. But the endless questions around EasyJet and when will they announce routes is like a kid in the back seat asking over and over again "are we there yet dad".
The issue with this thread is resident posters take the bait from posters from other threads who have no interest in having reasoned debate, just antagonising people. LTNman has been trolling for months now and is still getting responses. The clue is in his username guys. Either stop replying to these people or this thread will stay a constant argument.
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Old 18th Jun 2023, 15:46
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
The issue with this thread is resident posters take the bait from posters from other threads who have no interest in having reasoned debate, just antagonising people. LTNman has been trolling for months now and is still getting responses. The clue is in his username guys. Either stop replying to these people or this thread will stay a constant argument.
Had arrived at the same conclusion in respect of the mentioned antagonist, now considered as CVTman which will accordingly result in no further responses from me.

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 18th Jun 2023 at 18:41.
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