Southampton-3
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U2 are playing a bit of cat and mouse here with Loganair, they won’t see these domestics as big money earners although the odd daily service up north/NI will supplement the Loganair offering and most likely test their resolve for any potential drop out. The real money to be had is from summer flights and EZY will be announcing more destinations shortly!
Last edited by stewyb; 30th May 2023 at 17:56.
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The domestics need frequency and as has been pointed out, easyJet cannot and do not provide that. Look at how they are managing routes like NCL/BRS nowadays - it is a shadow of its former self and virtually useless for business travel. Good luck if that’s what you wish SOU to become.
And there is also the minor point that LM are/were the best hope for reinstating any form of half-decent SOU/MAN service. With relations with AGS likely now under pressure, I’d be surprised if that happens. AGS might just have shot themselves through both feet here in terms of easyJet domestics at SOU versus killing off any hope of growth from others. Can’t say for sure, but watch how this plays out.
And there is also the minor point that LM are/were the best hope for reinstating any form of half-decent SOU/MAN service. With relations with AGS likely now under pressure, I’d be surprised if that happens. AGS might just have shot themselves through both feet here in terms of easyJet domestics at SOU versus killing off any hope of growth from others. Can’t say for sure, but watch how this plays out.
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The domestics need frequency and as has been pointed out, easyJet cannot and do not provide that. Look at how they are managing routes like NCL/BRS nowadays - it is a shadow of its former self and virtually useless for business travel. Good luck if that’s what you wish SOU to become.
And there is also the minor point that LM are/were the best hope for reinstating any form of half-decent SOU/MAN service. With relations with AGS likely now under pressure, I’d be surprised if that happens. AGS might just have shot themselves through both feet here in terms of easyJet domestics at SOU versus killing off any hope of growth from others. Can’t say for sure, but watch how this plays out.
And there is also the minor point that LM are/were the best hope for reinstating any form of half-decent SOU/MAN service. With relations with AGS likely now under pressure, I’d be surprised if that happens. AGS might just have shot themselves through both feet here in terms of easyJet domestics at SOU versus killing off any hope of growth from others. Can’t say for sure, but watch how this plays out.
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The domestics need frequency and as has been pointed out, easyJet cannot and do not provide that. Look at how they are managing routes like NCL/BRS nowadays - it is a shadow of its former self and virtually useless for business travel. Good luck if that’s what you wish SOU to become.
And there is also the minor point that LM are/were the best hope for reinstating any form of half-decent SOU/MAN service. With relations with AGS likely now under pressure, I’d be surprised if that happens. AGS might just have shot themselves through both feet here in terms of easyJet domestics at SOU versus killing off any hope of growth from others. Can’t say for sure, but watch how this plays out.
And there is also the minor point that LM are/were the best hope for reinstating any form of half-decent SOU/MAN service. With relations with AGS likely now under pressure, I’d be surprised if that happens. AGS might just have shot themselves through both feet here in terms of easyJet domestics at SOU versus killing off any hope of growth from others. Can’t say for sure, but watch how this plays out.
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Correct. I used to be a semi-regular business traveller to SOU from MAN, both to the surrounding area and occasionally onwards to/from the Channel Islands, with FlyBe. When going to the surrounding area, the route was a great alternative to the train, but it was only useful due to timing and frequency.
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Correct. I used to be a semi-regular business traveller to SOU from MAN, both to the surrounding area and occasionally onwards to/from the Channel Islands, with FlyBe. When going to the surrounding area, the route was a great alternative to the train, but it was only useful due to timing and frequency.
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[QUOTE]The fact that T3 cancel more than they operate on MAN, you may as well stick EZY on that route 4 days a week![/QUOTE]
And if easyJet had a genuine interest in the structure of the domestic market, that is exactly what they would do. MAN/SOU is unserved and likely to remain so for now. Instead, easyJet is duplicating services already offered by Emerald and Loganair as a means of keeping those operators in check so that they become no wider threat to them.
It is not good for the market and even more surprising that airports like BHD and SOU are so gullible as to fall for this behaviour and support it. More fool them - the long term consequences for both the airports and consumers won’t be good.
And if easyJet had a genuine interest in the structure of the domestic market, that is exactly what they would do. MAN/SOU is unserved and likely to remain so for now. Instead, easyJet is duplicating services already offered by Emerald and Loganair as a means of keeping those operators in check so that they become no wider threat to them.
It is not good for the market and even more surprising that airports like BHD and SOU are so gullible as to fall for this behaviour and support it. More fool them - the long term consequences for both the airports and consumers won’t be good.
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I really don’t think that EZY is trying to keep Loganair and Emerald “in check”. Neither of these operators is in any way a threat to EZY’s core business. I think it’s simply the case that they have a couple of spaces in the programmes of their GLA and BHD based aircraft and no better idea what to do.
I really don’t think that EZY is trying to keep Loganair and Emerald “in check”. Neither of these operators is in any way a threat to EZY’s core business. I think it’s simply the case that they have a couple of spaces in the programmes of their GLA and BHD based aircraft and no better idea what to do.
It is not good for the market and even more surprising that airports like BHD and SOU are so gullible as to fall for this behaviour and support it. More fool them - the long term consequences for both the airports and consumers won’t be good.
"It is not good for the market and even more surprising that airports like BHD and SOU are so gullible as to fall for this behaviour and support it."
Are they tasked with preserving the current range of airlines - I don't think so
And seriously given the choice between Loganair or EasyJet operating from your airport which would you choose? You'r e looking to make as much as possible from the passengers as they pass through - and medium term EJ are a far better bet than Loganair to provide those volumes.
Are they tasked with preserving the current range of airlines - I don't think so
And seriously given the choice between Loganair or EasyJet operating from your airport which would you choose? You'r e looking to make as much as possible from the passengers as they pass through - and medium term EJ are a far better bet than Loganair to provide those volumes.
They need to be careful legally here, if easyJet want to compete on existing routes the airport is obliged not to discourage this even if it may impact their longer term goals. Competition if offered should not be disincetivised according to the law as it stands? ISTBC.
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They need to be careful legally here, if easyJet want to compete on existing routes the airport is obliged not to discourage this even if it may impact their longer term goals. Competition if offered should not be disincetivised according to the law as it stands? ISTBC.
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Looks like Aer Lingus Regional are increasing Dublin to 20x weekly (2x Sat, 3x Sun-Fri) from the start of the winter season. Good to see that route growing nicely, and the extra flight should improve connectivity to/from their North American flights.
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Quite a few have been snapped up by now. They could have replaced the 145s with q400s for their longer routes and also LHR. Kept the ATRs for short and thin routes. They have two fleets either way but at least with my suggestion they would serve different purposes.
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BHX is a lot closer to Scotland isn’t it? Got pretty decent train connections? I’m not familiar with Easy’s other regional routes from other airports but comparing SOU with other airports is a bit daft. Completely different area and demographic. I agree low cost operators have a history of coming in pushing people out and then disappearing but isn’t that what BE did often? It’s part of any business. Regionals can still serve the routes if they retain some frequency, have connections etc like Emerald do. Let’s see. SOU is definitely not going to turn away business either way.
From the winter slot report for Manchester, Loganair have applied for slots for a 3x daily SOU-MAN from the start of 2024. A long time off and just a slot request at the moment, but hopefully this will come to fruition!
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The Q4 is a very different and much more complex aircraft and also one which is out of production so comes with all of the problems of spare parts supply and lack of proper OEM support. Listening to some of the ex-Flybe crews about the troubles they had with them, it’s best avoided.
Any fleet changeover like this costs several million quid in training for pilots and engineers, re-tooling and lost productivity during the changeover. On top of replacing 340s with ATRs, trying to change 145s for Q4s at the same time would be a total disaster. It’s easy to say “do this, do that” but when you’ve no understanding of the full extent of what’s actually involved, it’s best left alone.
For those airlines who already have Q4s like Wideroe and Luxair, know the aeroplane and have the support internally for them (and same goes for Loganair with the 145s) then sticking with the fleet and even getting a few more is logical. For an airline re-fleeting, why would you go for an aircraft which is already obsolete?
I remember being told that we were offered a fleet of Q4s free of lease charges after Flybe collapsed first time. The leasing company was told that even that wasn’t cheap enough. I doubt the same offers remain on the table today so the economics will be even worse.
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For one, I am so glad no-one listens to armchair banter like this as the basis for making decisions.
The Q4 is a very different and much more complex aircraft and also one which is out of production so comes with all of the problems of spare parts supply and lack of proper OEM support. Listening to some of the ex-Flybe crews about the troubles they had with them, it’s best avoided.
Any fleet changeover like this costs several million quid in training for pilots and engineers, re-tooling and lost productivity during the changeover. On top of replacing 340s with ATRs, trying to change 145s for Q4s at the same time would be a total disaster. It’s easy to say “do this, do that” but when you’ve no understanding of the full extent of what’s actually involved, it’s best left alone.
For those airlines who already have Q4s like Wideroe and Luxair, know the aeroplane and have the support internally for them (and same goes for Loganair with the 145s) then sticking with the fleet and even getting a few more is logical. For an airline re-fleeting, why would you go for an aircraft which is already obsolete?
I remember being told that we were offered a fleet of Q4s free of lease charges after Flybe collapsed first time. The leasing company was told that even that wasn’t cheap enough. I doubt the same offers remain on the table today so the economics will be even worse.
The Q4 is a very different and much more complex aircraft and also one which is out of production so comes with all of the problems of spare parts supply and lack of proper OEM support. Listening to some of the ex-Flybe crews about the troubles they had with them, it’s best avoided.
Any fleet changeover like this costs several million quid in training for pilots and engineers, re-tooling and lost productivity during the changeover. On top of replacing 340s with ATRs, trying to change 145s for Q4s at the same time would be a total disaster. It’s easy to say “do this, do that” but when you’ve no understanding of the full extent of what’s actually involved, it’s best left alone.
For those airlines who already have Q4s like Wideroe and Luxair, know the aeroplane and have the support internally for them (and same goes for Loganair with the 145s) then sticking with the fleet and even getting a few more is logical. For an airline re-fleeting, why would you go for an aircraft which is already obsolete?
I remember being told that we were offered a fleet of Q4s free of lease charges after Flybe collapsed first time. The leasing company was told that even that wasn’t cheap enough. I doubt the same offers remain on the table today so the economics will be even worse.
I see your points but my comments were merely linked to the fact if LM were a bit bolder they could be in a better position to offer lower fairs and compete with any low cost operator if they had moved away from operating small business jets on the Scottish routes. Agreed that there is a lot involved with a fleet change. I personally think LM will be fine and will still have a presence at SOU.
They are a small airline with a niche business model that to whatever extent seems to work. They obviously prefer to offer frequent service at a higher cost, how well they do at that from a business/passenger perspective I’ve no idea. But to suggest they’ve dropped the ball by not changing fleets is out of turn in my view.