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Southampton-3

Old 27th Jul 2023, 10:45
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On a personal level I am hoping that Loganair do indeed start Manchester to Southampton in the coming months.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 13:03
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You'll be branded as a 'troll' by some, but given that straight jacket you're probably spot on
The troll accusations only come from those that want to close their ears to reality, as it doesn’t fit their narrative.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 20:22
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For Summer 2024, it is likely that easyJet's Gatwick operation will be probably 10-15% smaller as the slots they leased are due to be returned to BA. For BA, that has been a shrewd move and for easyJet it has resulted in overcapacity, operational stress and has enabled a sworn rival to mark time and re-enter a stronger market without losses in the meantime to hold its slots. The issue that both of them were apparently worried about - Wizz establishing a meaningful foothold in Gatwick - looks to have been a damp squib partly because Wizz has needed no help to fail.

The next issue is that three of those aircraft coming out of Gatwick are headed to Birmingham for the new base there and ten others are unexpectedly going back to their owners who can make more money leasing the engines out to India.

The new base at Birmingham should mean that some capacity from easyJet's Spanish bases serving Birmingham today is available to shift elsewhere, with Southampton very likely to be a beneficiary for the likes of PMI, AGP, FAO etc. Timing of announcement? Who knows....but I'm strongly led to believe one is coming.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 21:05
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
For Summer 2024, it is likely that easyJet's Gatwick operation will be probably 10-15% smaller as the slots they leased are due to be returned to BA. For BA, that has been a shrewd move and for easyJet it has resulted in overcapacity, operational stress and has enabled a sworn rival to mark time and re-enter a stronger market without losses in the meantime to hold its slots. The issue that both of them were apparently worried about - Wizz establishing a meaningful foothold in Gatwick - looks to have been a damp squib partly because Wizz has needed no help to fail.

The next issue is that three of those aircraft coming out of Gatwick are headed to Birmingham for the new base there and ten others are unexpectedly going back to their owners who can make more money leasing the engines out to India.

The new base at Birmingham should mean that some capacity from easyJet's Spanish bases serving Birmingham today is available to shift elsewhere, with Southampton very likely to be a beneficiary for the likes of PMI, AGP, FAO etc. Timing of announcement? Who knows....but I'm strongly led to believe one is coming.
PMI, AGP, FAO, ALC all incoming although unsure of announcement timing and presume December

Last edited by stewyb; 28th Jul 2023 at 08:30.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 21:05
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall

………….

The new base at Birmingham should mean that some capacity from easyJet's Spanish bases serving Birmingham today is available to shift elsewhere, with Southampton very likely to be a beneficiary for the likes of PMI, AGP, FAO etc. Timing of announcement? Who knows....but I'm strongly led to believe one is coming.
Timing, at the formal opening ceremony for the runway extension?
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 21:07
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Timing, at the formal opening ceremony for the runway extension?
Not that I am aware of, they do however have other surprises lined up
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 00:40
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Originally Posted by stewyb
Not that I am aware of, they do however have other surprises lined up
Without coming across as being pessimistic but where do you get your supposedly inside information from?

You seem insistent on the fact that easyJet are going to announce sun routes to Southampton for summer 2024.

I'm under the impression that you know no more than anyone else on this forum regarding the topic.

Along with the rest of us I want to see easyJet announce sun routes to Southampton for summer 2024 along with the hope that other airlines and routes might appear. But I'm personally not building my hopes up until the day that I finally read an official statement confirming it.

All this "yes they will, I'm waiting for the confirmation, that's what I've heard, fit's into the plans, etc" is really getting a bit tedious to be honest.

I know this is a public forum and a place to discuss Southampton Airport but really let's just bide our time and wait for any official statement to confirm otherwise. Throughout my life I've always been a believer in not getting over excited about something until it actually happens. I've never been interested in conspiracies or fact less rumours, I believe in the truth, I don't like to be let down. Until easyJet makes any official statement I'm regarding all this as just wishful thinking.


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Old 28th Jul 2023, 07:21
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EZY do not currently serve AGP or ALC from BHX so any future flights to/from SOU would have to be fitted in existing base schedules / aircraft availability

They do currently serve PMI and FAO although according to the schedules for BHX on the EZY Holidays website, not all flights to/from these airports next summer are BHX based aircraft,

This doesn't mean there will be no EZY sun flights from SOU next year but it's not as simple as the BHX base opening and aircraft therefore becoming free at PMI, AGP etc to operate to SOU.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 07:34
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I follow this thread because I've always found SOU a conundrum - good transport links, affluent catchment area but struggles to attract airlines to serve routes that look like winners. We are told that MAN is a good route, Eastern operate it intermittently. Paris is a good route but Eastern operate it as a slot sitter. EZY pile in on GVA during the winter but haven't committed to anything else. The Channel Islands operate consistently as do the Scottish routes and NCL. Maybe the current runway length is more of a constraint than we think - interesting times.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 07:46
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I've always though the catchment is the problem - you have three other airports within easy reach and two of them are monsters. Its very hard to differentiate SOU in such a position. If Cardiff struggles because of Bristol think how much worse the location of SOU is
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 06:09
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I follow this thread because I've always found SOU a conundrum - good transport links, affluent catchment area but struggles to attract airlines to serve routes that look like winners. We are told that MAN is a good route, Eastern operate it intermittently. Paris is a good route but Eastern operate it as a slot sitter. EZY pile in on GVA during the winter but haven't committed to anything else. The Channel Islands operate consistently as do the Scottish routes and NCL. Maybe the current runway length is more of a constraint than we think - interesting times.
Great points, but SOU lost Flybe, and then Covid killed the cat.

SOU was very much a Businessman's ''go to'' airport - so as you say MAN, GLA, EDI, BFS, DUB were all once very busy, plus the KLM/AF Interline hubs at AMS and CDG.

The historical Channel Islands routes have been flown from SOU since BEA's Dragon Rapide days lol.
Long may they continue.

Businessman and many workers, now sit on their fat behinds and work from Home; costly Business Travel expenses are now frowned upon by their Accounts Departments.
It's now 'Zoom' this, and 'Teams' that (yuk)

As for SOU-Geneva and Easyjet --- This route flown in the peak ski-winter is a cash cow for them, with flights from BOH and now SEN too, for the cash rich Skiers.
The EZY GVA base and the aircraft is operated by Easyjet Switzerland.
A summer series could be attractive, as could Basel and Zurich too (all Easyjet Switzerland bases)

Any other EZY expansion at SOU will come from Easyjet Europe bases, such as PMI FAO and AGP etc.

The KLM AMS is now twice daily, and I am using it myself next month, flying VCE-AMS-SOU in Biz.

Eastern Airways have been playing games at SOU with MAN, & the ORY is a disaster.

I wanted to book MAN (I actually want to go to LPL) but MAN is now canned,
so I am flying SOU to LPL via JER (Blue Islands and EZY)
Or I can fly from EXT to LPL, via JER or even BFS, and I still get there quicker than taking the train or driving.




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Old 29th Jul 2023, 06:42
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Has the demand for previous successful routes like SOU - MAN and Paris fallen because of COVID or because there hasn't been a competent airline on it or a mixture of both.

I can't believe how badly Eastern have done with some of the old Flybe routes from Southampton. I'm not expecting pre Covid style demand but surely they could get on average 60+ bums on seats on a morning and evening rotation?
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 06:50
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Two very SOU thread type responses! Do the cash rich skiers not want to fly anywhere else? Is the drop off in business demand the same elsewhere?

It's easy to blame Eastern, but if these routes are so good, why is nobody else interested?
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 06:55
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Loganair apparently do want to operate Manchester, although a bit late to the party so seemingly way down their list of priorities.

IAG claiming their pax numbers are almost as they were pre pandemic but obviously behaviours have changed in the UK domestic market.

However, there is such a clear cost and time saving with flying over the train, that demand can't have evaporated entirely? We're talking about routes which used to serve 500k pax a year. There must be some market remaining- even if it's at 10-20% of pre covid numbers.
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 07:06
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Two very SOU thread type responses! Do the cash rich skiers not want to fly anywhere else? Is the drop off in business demand the same elsewhere?

It's easy to blame Eastern, but if these routes are so good, why is nobody else interested?
LOL, yes cash rich skiers (mainly Consultant Surgeons in my experience lol) do go elsewhere - usually in the School Hols >> Xmas/NY Easter, and in Summer >> Nice Faro Bergerac Limoges Calvi Skiathos and Olbia are all popular for them


and Cavokblues says:
Has the demand for previous successful routes like SOU - MAN and Paris fallen because of COVID or because there hasn't been a competent airline on it, or a mixture of both?

The latter.......

Seems nobody else is interested because we have now fewer UK domestic airlines that want to fly these routes, nor have the right aircraft for it.

Yes, EZY can fill an Airbus from JER to MAN BFS LTN LGW LPL etc, but they would not fill a twice daily MAN-SOU, or JER-SOU.

Ryanair as we all know, cannot operate in, or out of SOU - Had they could, then it's possible they would be here by now - not sure though that UK or Irish flights to/from SOU would work for them, as Ryanair at BOH now have only a few DUB and EDI flights - both are not daily and some are at crap times.
BUT its cheap as chips.
Tomorrow's BOH-EDI is sold out (189 seats)

Last edited by rog747; 29th Jul 2023 at 07:15. Reason: spelling
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 09:43
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Ryanair as we all know, cannot operate in, or out of SOU
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If Ryanair could operate from Southend then why not Southampton when the extension opens?
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 10:33
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This has been discussed so many times now the whole thread is fast becoming tedious to read
Round and round in circles…..
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 11:02
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I know it's been stated before about the clearance still being prohibitive but 737-800s have operated commercially into Southampton before with Air Berlin and a few others.

If the new extension doesn't allow for 738 to Spain and southern France etc then an awful lot of eggs have been put in an orange coloured basket.
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 14:27
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Whenever I have used the SOU-MAN on Eastern it has been at least 2/3rds full. However, the stop start Eastern schedule is hopeless. It is canned until at least October, but when I asked if they would actually operate it - they said they couldn't guarantee it. So, I've booked via LHR to get to SOU.
From 6 x Dash 8s a day to nothing. You can blame covid etc for the big reduction, but given that the trains are so slow, expensive & frequently on strike there was never a better time to get some reliability into the route & at least provide a day return schedule. Many of my booking on Eastern were cancelled late, so alternative options became expensive, so now, I wouldn't book at all. If only Loganair would take it on, I wouldn't hesitate in booking.
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Old 29th Jul 2023, 16:26
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A good comparison is Southampton to Newcastle/Glasgow/Edinburgh, even if the latter do attract more leisure travel - by having a reliable carrier operating those routes they have built up to now match or exceed the Flybe frequencies from before they went bust. This is despite the drop off in demand for business travel, and on smaller aircraft with higher fares than before.

I hope that Loganair can find a way to operate Manchester, they are probably the only likely carrier with the right aircraft and operational reliability to do so. They also have quite a few partnerships with other airlines, which allows them to capture some connecting traffic via Manchester as well.

Having ridden the alternative CrossCountry train for about 1/3 of the route I can confirm that it is a truly dreadful experience - slow, horrifically overcrowded, understaffed and unreliable.
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