Luton-10

[PAXboy]

Very little is going to move pax away from cars.

• Busses are not numerous enough, as there is no enjoyment in dragging cases (and possibly children) 10 mins to the bus stop - then it might require a change of bus. Allowing for changes and delays, the time factor can be enormous.
• Trains are only helpful if you live near the station on the line that goes to the airport. If you do not, and have a lift/taxi to the correct station - you might as well go direct to the airport. Allowing for changes and delays, the time factor can be enormous.

If the DART had had a big drop off / collection area and a low fare ride - it 'might' have been a solution. But, no capital project gets the go ahead on just making life easier for the customers. It must (at least on paper) make a profit.

Therefore, personal car/taxi drop off and collection will continue.

[davidjohnson6]

I get that for many people, car is the easiest way to/from LTN. However we have seen that the approach road before Xmas cannot cope with the temporary drop-off area. We know from experience in previous years that at Easter and July/August, this bunged-up approach road situation is going to be significantly worse. We also know that the burnt-out car park will not be rebuilt and ready for use in 2024.

What *should* LTN do to manage traffic to/from the airport ? Waving hands in the air and saying nothing can be done is pretty lame.

[PAXboy]

A very fair question.

• In the short term - very little! But, until the car park is rebuilt (min 2 years) could they set up a Park n Ride away from the mid-term? Could they hire one of the car parks oppsoite the industrial buildings on Vauxhall Way?
• If they can make something that is free or VERY much cheaper than the current drop off?
• Could they seek to limit the current drop off numbers or expand the mid-term drop off areas?

Somebody must be cursing that they didn't put a Dart station in the mid-term!

[geriatrix]

Might be worthwhile trying to tempt National Express or some other bus/coach operator to increase the number of routes that serve LTN. There used to be a service from High Wycombe, but that was diverted away. There is now no practical way to get from High Wycombe to Luton Airport other than going into London or possibly Oxford and back out again. At least, I couldn't find one and I'd love to be proved wrong.

[pabely]

I think the question is why owns that land and access to it via the original Airport Way and roundabouts.

[planedrive]

Originally Posted by pabely

I think the question is why owns that land and access to it via the original Airport Way and roundabouts.

It was at one point owned by easyJet as it was to be their new headquarters. Whether it still is, I don't know.

[TartinTon]

Originally Posted by geriatrix

Might be worthwhile trying to tempt National Express or some other bus/coach operator to increase the number of routes that serve LTN. There used to be a service from High Wycombe, but that was diverted away. There is now no practical way to get from High Wycombe to Luton Airport other than going into London or possibly Oxford and back out again. At least, I couldn't find one and I'd love to be proved wrong.

They did the same for Hemel Hempstead. The 707 bus route still stops in Hemel to pick up and drop off but not if you're going to/from LTN! So it's actually easier and cheaper for me to go to LHR than to LTN thanks to National Express muppetry. I've asked them why and got no sensible answer. They suggest I pay for a ticket to Milton Keynes and tell the bus driver I'm getting off at LTN. Bunch of clowns. The least worst option from Hemel seems to be parking at St Albans and using the train/dart. This is relatively painless. So that's a town of just under 100k population, 12 miles away, that can't reasonably use it's closest airport. Ridiculous.

[PAXboy]

I would have thought it worth investigating as it is adjacent to the boundary and temporary access would be possible. as pabley highlights, there is already a route into Airport Way. The car parks have, naturally, direct access from the main road at the roundabout - they might need a set of traffic lights. This would take a considerable degree of pressure off the mid-term arrangement. According to G maps, part of the parking area is already being used by Airparks Shortrun.

In the famous words "How difficult can it be?"

[pabely]

Originally Posted by planedrive

It was at one point owned by easyJet as it was to be their new headquarters. Whether it still is, I don't know.

Isn't that the area further North, just below the ex Shell Petrol Station?

[PAXboy]

This just clipped from Google Maps. I have marked four labels relating to parking that show up.

[pabely]

I see today's Dan Air Romania is off to Liverpool from Luton, extra flight for them?
Not sure if I would like a flight to Bacau via an airport 180 degrees in wrong direction!

[davidjohnson6]

Wizzair have been flying Luton to Amman for about a year now - the continuation of flights suggests it's working for them.
I'm wondering why they don't resume Kutaisi or start Yerevan which are a similiar distance from Luton as Amman, particularly as the UK has no nonstop link to either Georgia or Armenia.
Do these routes both need subsidy money or is there another story behind this ?
Armenian-registered airlines seem likely to all stay on the EU forbidden list for at least the next 12 months... and with Turkey and Azerbaijan as neighbours, air routes are critical to the country. Seems an ideal opportunity for Wizzair to do a land grab of market share of Europe-Armenia routes while potential competitors are stuck in "jail"

[pabely]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

Wizzair have been flying Luton to Amman for about a year now - the continuation of flights suggests it's working for them.
I'm wondering why they don't resume Kutaisi or start Yerevan which are a similiar distance from Luton as Amman, particularly as the UK has no nonstop link to either Georgia or Armenia.
Do these routes both need subsidy money or is there another story behind this ?
Armenian-registered airlines seem likely to all stay on the EU forbidden list for at least the next 12 months... and with Turkey and Azerbaijan as neighbours, air routes are critical to the country. Seems an ideal opportunity for Wizzair to do a land grab of market share of Europe-Armenia routes while potential competitors are stuck in "jail"

I'm sure both are on the Wizzair radar but current engine issues are holding things back, on paper WUK have plenty of aircraft but only recently they had to charter in Titan aircraft to cover Luton shedules. Then their is the question of slot availability, it doesn't look like Luton is going to get the green light for 19m next year but with a likely pax limit again, from the UK Gov, 2025 could be a likely expansion phase again. I suspect AMM & IST will go x2 daily as well, IST maybe more. Wizzair are used to x4 daily on some of their trunk routes and that is with a good deal of competition in Essex.

[Alloy]

As well as Wizz engine issues, I think crew retention, particularly of captains (FOs are for better or worse, easier to replace) due to poor working conditions compared to what else is offered in the U.K., particularly the comparatively low basic salary and roster instability.

[Spanish eyes]

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.

I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.

[pabely]

Originally Posted by Spanish eyes

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.

I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.

A Few Diversions at LGW & LHR today due to the weather.
I suppose the DART should have been totally underground- that would have saved a few lost hours not running but would have cost???.
BTW Newark Airport in US has just ordered a similar system at it's airport which will run a similar distance to Luton's but for a more mouth watering cost.

[davidjohnson6]

Originally Posted by Spanish eyes

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.
I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.

LTN is a LCC airport. Not an intercontinental hub full of people paying thousands of pounds to travel on lie flat beds. LCC airport.
There are buses shuttling between terminal and the rail station.... most people seem to manage a 5 or 10 minute bus ride without recurring nightmares. If you're really in a hurry, there are taxis. If you want to save money, it's just over a mile to walk.
If you want 100% reliable comfort, it costs serious money. If you want to fly for £20, occasionally stuff will go slightly wrong.
In life you get what you pay for.

[Spanish eyes]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

If you want 100% reliable comfort, it costs serious money. If you want to fly for £20, occasionally stuff will go slightly wrong.
In life you get what you pay for.

Didn’t the Dart cost over £300 million for one mile of track with a single ticket costing a quarter of a £20 airfare? I would say that is serious money.

[Dannyboy39]

Originally Posted by Spanish eyes

There is no Dart due to the weather, as it can’t operate safely in windy conditions. You can’t make it up.

I hear the exposed long walk from the wrong end of the mid term, which is the pick up area, is challenging.

Whisper it quietly but aircraft worth $10Ms can’t operate safely in strong winds either…

[Spanish eyes]

I didn’t see any diversions or cancellations yesterday at Luton apart from the Dart. It would seem its streamlined shape for cutting through the air at a sedate 15mph was not enough to save the service seeing it is physically attached to the track using guide rails. Can it operate in the snow? I was somewhat disappointed at yesterday’s cancelled services as I expected it to run in all weather conditions.