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Luton-10

Old 31st Mar 2024, 05:19
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https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cekep2jng5yo

The Luton Direct Air-Rail Transit (Dart) cost £290m to construct and was due to open in 2020 but became fully operational on 27 March 2023.
2.7m passengers is a healthy number but the cost was actually £360m.

Last edited by LTNman; 31st Mar 2024 at 06:12.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 06:31
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Regarding Ryanair flights they operate a number of W patterns as well as based aircraft for example there are two this morning from Barcelona and Faro. I bet a pound to a penny there will bust the 18 million mark and probably get away with it with quite a number of sporting events occurring this summer, Also they seem to have a got a real move on regarding the demolition of the car park and about time,
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 06:57
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I bet a pound to a penny there will bust the 18 million mark and probably get away with it
I agree seeing the airport is owned by the council, who ignored for 3 years the night time breaches.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 09:48
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I see 2.7m being very healthy- would be good to know the split of full fare pax, it was a slow start by design and many weeks lost after the fire.
if they can get it to around 5m then that should fully cover the loan repayments and generate positive income.

Of note today, welcome back Sun Express & El Al back to double daily.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 11:44
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They would have counted the replacement busses for the Dart shutdown as Dart passengers as they would still need a ticket to travel. Airport staff and pensioners qualify for free travel so we will never know the true figure for fare paying passengers and not all Dart passengers catch a train.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 12:49
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A little more detail here, including half price resident journeys and free airport staff journeys and older person bus pass and disability badge holders.

https://lutonrising.org.uk/luton-dar...its-first-year
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 15:53
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Originally Posted by LTNman
The airport still has a limit of 18m regardless of based aircraft until public inquiry conditions for 19m are met.
And if the total comes to 18,050,000, what is actually the issue here? They are basing the total on average load factors, meaning that thereís definitely a chance that they could go over if services are busier than expected (which benefits everyone in this industry).
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 16:54
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And if the total comes to 18,050,000, what is actually the issue here?


They are in breach of planning permission and also now the conditions for expansion above 18m, as laid out by the planning inquiry for 19m.

CAA passenger figures for 2019 shows the airport broke limits then with 18,213,901 passing through the airport but the operator manipulated the figures to show that they were around 50 passengers under. Think of it as filling out your tax returns and faking your income with your mate from HRMC looking the other way but fully aware of what is going on. In this case the HRMC is the council who just happen to take their cut with no questions asked yet the CAA had the real figures that were ignored.

Last edited by LTNman; 31st Mar 2024 at 17:08.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 20:14
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Are not the limits controlled in part by ACL?
if you don't have an approved slot you cannot operate?
Did they miscalcute 319s vs 320s and 320s vs 321s? Then it was mostly 156-189 seats.
Now you have 187-219.
The whole control of 18m is a little outdated.
Everyone is upscaling for greater efficiency.
Imagine putting limits on number of people on motorways, you are even encouraged to car share to work.
Anyhow I cannot see the rolling limit being breached possibly until next April, with a much later Easter.

Last edited by pabely; 31st Mar 2024 at 20:35.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 22:51
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Are not the limits controlled in part by ACL?
The operator is meant to adhere to its planning permission and the conditions laid out by the planning inspectors, it is as simple as that. ACL limits are irrelevant. As you say, they are within limits at the moment and also the application for 32m might be approved although LRT is not convinced by its own application despite spending £71m on it. With the application full of holes and fake claims, the best one being green growth that excluded aircraft movements, I can see why they are worried but 90% of DCO applications are successful.

if they can get it to around 5m then that should fully cover the loan repayments and generate positive income.
LRT auditors think there will be a £260m shortfall spread over 40 years when interest payments, maintenance and running costs including electricity and staff are taken into account using LRT’s own passenger predictions. Also LRT pay the operator to run it on their behalf which is another expense. A case of being mugged not once but twice.

Last edited by LTNman; 1st Apr 2024 at 06:08.
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Old 1st Apr 2024, 06:23
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Originally Posted by LTNman
They are in breach of planning permission and also now the conditions for expansion above 18m, as laid out by the planning inquiry for 19m.

CAA passenger figures for 2019 shows the airport broke limits then with 18,213,901 passing through the airport but the operator manipulated the figures to show that they were around 50 passengers under. Think of it as filling out your tax returns and faking your income with your mate from HRMC looking the other way but fully aware of what is going on. In this case the HRMC is the council who just happen to take their cut with no questions asked yet the CAA had the real figures that were ignored.
Itís not exactly an equivalent comparison.

What is the real world impact of having 17,995,000 v 18,050,000. Itís an arbitrary number that clearly the airport would be able to prove it can handle.
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Old 1st Apr 2024, 07:00
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What is the issue then of getting planning permission to build an extension at the side of the house and then ignoring it and building it bigger as there is enough space. Why even apply for planning permission if we can all just ignore it?

Going back to the Dart. This from Luton Borough Council who even don’t know when they are being mugged.

Alberto Martin, CEO of London Luton Airport, [the operator] said: “The DART underlines the way in which London Luton Airport and Luton Rising are working together to drive more sustainable travel to and from the airport.
This is the company that refused to put in a penny into the Dart but likes to talk about sustainable travel and claim some of the Dart glory. It was the Luton taxpayer that picked up the bill while only making 5800 half price journeys out of 2.7m. I bet most of those were people trying the Dart out for fun when it first opened.

Last edited by LTNman; 1st Apr 2024 at 07:15.
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Old 1st Apr 2024, 07:42
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Passengers will soon have to scan their boarding passes to enter the terminal, as work has commenced on installing turnstiles. Other passengers, who have not checked in online and visitors will have to pay £5 via ticket machines being installed at the front of the terminal. This is being done to make up for some of the lost drop off income and to reduce the demand for check-in desks.

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Old 1st Apr 2024, 07:46
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Originally Posted by LTNman
Passengers will soon have to scan their boarding passes to enter the terminal, as work has commenced on installing turnstiles. Other passengers, who have not checked in online and visitors will have to pay £5 via ticket machines being installed at the front of the terminal. This is being done to make up for some of the lost drop off income and to reduce the demand for check-in desks.

And todays date is.....?
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Old 1st Apr 2024, 12:46
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Originally Posted by LTNman
What is the issue then of getting planning permission to build an extension at the side of the house and then ignoring it and building it bigger as there is enough space. Why even apply for planning permission if we can all just ignore it?
Which house extensions have a clause on the number of inhabitants or say if you are a restaurant the number of seated customers per year?
99% of limits at airports are ATMs.
This 18m limit was based on smaller aircraft, that is just not the modern world now.
Luton should have a pro-rata limit which encourages larger aircraft to do the national policy of best use of existing runways.
What was agreed in 2012? is probably worth 21m passengers now without any increase in slots or ATMs.
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Old 1st Apr 2024, 13:02
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Surely the fire brigade have set a limit on the number of people in the terminal?
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Old 1st Apr 2024, 13:23
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Which house extensions have a clause on the number of inhabitants or say if you are a restaurant the number of seated customers per year?
No point in arguing with me, I am just telling you how it is. This was confirmed by the planning inspectors who approved 19m but only if conditions were met first. Those conditions haven’t been met so the limit remains at 18m for the time being.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ef_3296455.pdf


Also why are you not asking why just an extra million planning application and not say an extra 3m passengers? This is because LRT, the council and the applicant thought it would be ignored by the government and it would all be decided and passed by the council if it was kept to just an extra million passengers and so it was passed. The government had other ideas and called it in and imposed conditions as the “dodgy” planning committee could not be trusted as being impartial and who imposed no conditions.

Last edited by LTNman; 1st Apr 2024 at 14:13.
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Old 1st Apr 2024, 16:13
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So they have a year as it is a rolling yearly pax figure.
Interesting that LADACAN were pulled on alot of inaccurate information, even contradicting their own case.
Some interesting baselines moved to more modern times as well.
​​​​​
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 07:58
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Looks like Ryanair are moving their flights from Stansted to Rhodes and Zadar to Luton beginning in June.
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 08:10
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Originally Posted by compton3bravo
Looks like Ryanair are moving their flights from Stansted to Rhodes and Zadar to Luton beginning in June.
Still available to book on website.
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