Aer Lingus - 5
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EI-BD. I am sure that you will let me defend myself. Whilst I will not disclose exactly who I am I can tell you that I have a background in airline economic planning, am very familiar with the details of doing that for airlines at Gatwick, have been a consultant in business strategy and have lectured on that subject in several industries. I am a regular traveller on air routes to and from the Irish Republic and travel frequently between Gatwick and Malaga.
So lots of points of interest there.
The biggest fact about Aer Lingus is that it is a regional airline with (by world standards a small and very specialised) longhaul business serving only transatlantic routes which have the most open market conditions of any intercontinental routes in the world).
That alone creates a tough environment.
But add to this that their home market is small in population numbers although it has been very prosperous in recent years. But it is still small in overall numbers.
It then has right on its doorstep the most ruthless competitor that Europe has ever seen. This thread has seen some comparisons between RYR and EIN on costs. The exact figures do not matter. The very fact that there is a wide margin between them creates huge difficulties for EIN. On top of that EIN has a historical union structure. Having fought unions myself to try and update working practices and reduce costs I do not envy EIN's management their very tough task in this area.
The strategic nightmare that EIN faces is that they have to find a future that gets away from this impossible scenario. They cannot remain a regional carrier with a small home market. They cannot be bought because no one will pay good money for the right to fight RYR on their home turf. However much you and I like the Irish it is not strong enough to tackle the big barons in the industry in Europe.
So what is EIN doing in this maelstrom? Taking on much stronger airlines in their strongholds. LGW, BFS. Nothing in my background gives me any confidence that they will succeed.
That EIN has huge skills I have no doubt. That they are not being leveraged properly to ensure the survival, let alone the future prosperity of their company, equally I have no doubt.
I have a strong view about what it is that they should do and I do believe that their network and skills could be brought together to make the nucleus of a powerful force. But an absolute obsession to accept radical change at all levels is the minimum starting position. Saying goodbye to any tradition in the business is an essential first step. Colm Barrington send me an email and I will tell you a few things.
I have not been trying to do EIN down but to point out that what they are doing lacks the kind of strategic vision that is necessary in this increasingly difficult world.
Like it or not RYR does have that vision. That is why they have the best part of 200 aircraft and have created a genuinely multi-national company with the toughest management standards.
EIN is at the crossroads and I am not sure that they are aware of it. But if they can go down that exciting road of radical and endless change they have a future. If they go the other way then that cash will run out.
Cheers.
So lots of points of interest there.
The biggest fact about Aer Lingus is that it is a regional airline with (by world standards a small and very specialised) longhaul business serving only transatlantic routes which have the most open market conditions of any intercontinental routes in the world).
That alone creates a tough environment.
But add to this that their home market is small in population numbers although it has been very prosperous in recent years. But it is still small in overall numbers.
It then has right on its doorstep the most ruthless competitor that Europe has ever seen. This thread has seen some comparisons between RYR and EIN on costs. The exact figures do not matter. The very fact that there is a wide margin between them creates huge difficulties for EIN. On top of that EIN has a historical union structure. Having fought unions myself to try and update working practices and reduce costs I do not envy EIN's management their very tough task in this area.
The strategic nightmare that EIN faces is that they have to find a future that gets away from this impossible scenario. They cannot remain a regional carrier with a small home market. They cannot be bought because no one will pay good money for the right to fight RYR on their home turf. However much you and I like the Irish it is not strong enough to tackle the big barons in the industry in Europe.
So what is EIN doing in this maelstrom? Taking on much stronger airlines in their strongholds. LGW, BFS. Nothing in my background gives me any confidence that they will succeed.
That EIN has huge skills I have no doubt. That they are not being leveraged properly to ensure the survival, let alone the future prosperity of their company, equally I have no doubt.
I have a strong view about what it is that they should do and I do believe that their network and skills could be brought together to make the nucleus of a powerful force. But an absolute obsession to accept radical change at all levels is the minimum starting position. Saying goodbye to any tradition in the business is an essential first step. Colm Barrington send me an email and I will tell you a few things.
I have not been trying to do EIN down but to point out that what they are doing lacks the kind of strategic vision that is necessary in this increasingly difficult world.
Like it or not RYR does have that vision. That is why they have the best part of 200 aircraft and have created a genuinely multi-national company with the toughest management standards.
EIN is at the crossroads and I am not sure that they are aware of it. But if they can go down that exciting road of radical and endless change they have a future. If they go the other way then that cash will run out.
Cheers.
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A radical change to follow the Ruinair model is not what is needed.
The likes of BA, Lufty, AF dont seem to be stooping down to the pikey level to run successful operations do they?
What is needed is a strong management team that is not currupt between execs and non execs lining each others pockets.
The likes of BA, Lufty, AF dont seem to be stooping down to the pikey level to run successful operations do they?
What is needed is a strong management team that is not currupt between execs and non execs lining each others pockets.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I have a background in airline economic planning, am very familiar with the details of doing that for airlines at Gatwick, have been a consultant in business strategy and have lectured on that subject in several industries.
Seriously? I thought there was just a magic bowling ball somewhere......
Forgive me I work in consultancy too and I just assumed that airlines were impervious to advice seeing as many just really wing it......
A radical change to follow the Ruinair model is not what is needed.
The likes of BA, Lufty, AF dont seem to be stooping down to the pikey level to run successful operations do they?
What is needed is a strong management team that is not currupt between execs and non execs lining each others pockets.
The likes of BA, Lufty, AF dont seem to be stooping down to the pikey level to run successful operations do they?
What is needed is a strong management team that is not currupt between execs and non execs lining each others pockets.
BA passenger numbers are going where ? They have basically retreated, retreated and retreated across Europe and are desperate for a partner.
LH are buying everything they can at rockbottom prices to try and control central european markets with support of German Govt.
AF bought KLM to eliminate competition and have French Govt interpreting laws again and again at aiports to give them the slots above everybody else, add to the big subsidy they get every year by having planes on standby in the event French military require them, last figure I was aware of was circa 100 Million and that was in 2001.
Funny every body ignores Govt supporting airlines they favour.
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BA passenger numbers are going where ? They have basically retreated, retreated and retreated across Europe and are desperate for a partner.
They have retrenched to a core set of business roots that feed a strong long haul network from their main base. They have withdrawn from low yield leisure routes from Gatwick and replaced the LHR fleet with new build Airbuses. I agree they need a partner but not quite at death's door just yet I think.
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right on its doorstep the most ruthless competitor that Europe has ever seen
The strategic nightmare that EIN faces is that they have to find a future that gets away from this impossible scenario. They cannot remain a regional carrier with a small home market. They cannot be bought because no one will pay good money for the right to fight RYR on their home turf. However much you and I like the Irish it is not strong enough to tackle the big barons in the industry in Europe.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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If I could interject a short note in favour of EI.
They have an advantage not shared by Ruinair and to a lesser extent easyjet. Passengers actually like EI. Similar to the way that some people actually like the sort of service offered by BA. People are actually prepared to pay a (small) premium for a little bit less hassle and grief. Strange but true.
I would also like to think that some passengers would prefer to fly with an airline that treated their employees with some respect and dignity. Sadly I'm probably wrong on that one.
They have an advantage not shared by Ruinair and to a lesser extent easyjet. Passengers actually like EI. Similar to the way that some people actually like the sort of service offered by BA. People are actually prepared to pay a (small) premium for a little bit less hassle and grief. Strange but true.
I would also like to think that some passengers would prefer to fly with an airline that treated their employees with some respect and dignity. Sadly I'm probably wrong on that one.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I agree with colegate, about EI being at a crossroads. After years of indecisive moves, confusing branding, low-cost Europe- frills on the atlantic, its about time that EI decided who they are, and what they are.
If they are fighting EZY on there home turf, they need to step up their game. They cant rely on ''people like flying with EI because they are nice''. They need to use there assets and use them wisely to compete vigouresly.
EI as a frequent flier programme, albeit a poor one; has this been used in LGW to attract fliers? I'm sure there are many passengers with Executive club accounts who would use EI if it adds more points to there EC account?
If they are fighting EZY on there home turf, they need to step up their game. They cant rely on ''people like flying with EI because they are nice''. They need to use there assets and use them wisely to compete vigouresly.
EI as a frequent flier programme, albeit a poor one; has this been used in LGW to attract fliers? I'm sure there are many passengers with Executive club accounts who would use EI if it adds more points to there EC account?
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They have an advantage not shared by Ruinair and to a lesser extent easyjet. Passengers actually like EI. Similar to the way that some people actually like the sort of service offered by BA. People are actually prepared to pay a (small) premium for a little bit less hassle and grief. Strange but true.
I would also like to think that some passengers would prefer to fly with an airline that treated their employees with some respect and dignity. Sadly I'm probably wrong on that one.
I would also like to think that some passengers would prefer to fly with an airline that treated their employees with some respect and dignity. Sadly I'm probably wrong on that one.
I dont know a single solitary person who would book EI because they treat their staff nicer .
People liking EI will only carry them so far and i know a few people who have had just as crap experiences with EI as any other airline. Cost is a big factor for anyone travelling right now and whether the extra charges will make it more expensive in the long run...who knows but the ticket price, people percieved to be cheaper with FR and went with them
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Hopefully Aer Lingus will stick with their quality brand and leave the scangers to travel with Ruinair / Ezy as they see fit.
Im sure there is enough of each class of passenger for each carrier.
I know I would rather a nice quiet flight than being cooked up with a load of chanting buffoons dressed in football shirts.
Im sure there is enough of each class of passenger for each carrier.
I know I would rather a nice quiet flight than being cooked up with a load of chanting buffoons dressed in football shirts.
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Hopefully Aer Lingus will stick with their quality brand and leave the scangers to travel with Ruinair / Ezy as they see fit.
Im sure there is enough of each class of passenger for each carrier.
I know I would rather a nice quiet flight than being cooked up with a load of chanting buffoons dressed in football shirts.
Im sure there is enough of each class of passenger for each carrier.
I know I would rather a nice quiet flight than being cooked up with a load of chanting buffoons dressed in football shirts.
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I know I would rather a nice quiet flight than being cooked up with a load of chanting buffoons dressed in football shirts
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well no, being nice is not enough.
yet again neither is promoting the BA Executive link (and on some routes is is surprisingly generous, though mostly not)
However put all the strengths together and there is a decent value propostion for the customer.
(Did I mention relatively confortable seats?)
but I think the suspicion is that IE management don't even know their strengths never mind play to them.
yet again neither is promoting the BA Executive link (and on some routes is is surprisingly generous, though mostly not)
However put all the strengths together and there is a decent value propostion for the customer.
(Did I mention relatively confortable seats?)
but I think the suspicion is that IE management don't even know their strengths never mind play to them.
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VKID,
well, I can only speak as I find. You experience may well be that everybody wants to pay the least they can.
However no-one can dispute that this is not the case in any area of consumer purchasing. There are always people prepared to pay more for something of value to them. Otherwise airlines would not be filling any of their premium economy seats, for example.
Even easyjet understands that there is a point beyond which they can't go before alienating a large number of customers.
Ryanair only competes on price because they have nothing else to offer but other airlines don't and their customers don't want them to.
God help us all if other airlines should join Ryanair in a race to the bottom. We see the dreadful conclusion of a race to the bottome in the Continental Connect crash at Buffalo.
well, I can only speak as I find. You experience may well be that everybody wants to pay the least they can.
However no-one can dispute that this is not the case in any area of consumer purchasing. There are always people prepared to pay more for something of value to them. Otherwise airlines would not be filling any of their premium economy seats, for example.
Even easyjet understands that there is a point beyond which they can't go before alienating a large number of customers.
Ryanair only competes on price because they have nothing else to offer but other airlines don't and their customers don't want them to.
God help us all if other airlines should join Ryanair in a race to the bottom. We see the dreadful conclusion of a race to the bottome in the Continental Connect crash at Buffalo.
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and you may be right Capt J...i'm just speaking from own experience and personally think the volume of passengers willing to pay a premium for service over lower cost is dwindling and will continue to dwindle. Most people i know are of the opinion that once they get from A to B safely and cheaply, they'll take that option everytime and more so now that economics is really coming into it.
I also know of many businessmen who would previously gone EI premium to London, are now flying Ryanair if its cheaper..they go where the company pays for them to go and many companies are cutting costs. For quite a few i know, the perk of cushy flights is a thing of the past and its coach all the way whether they like it or not.
All my opinion of course, never claimed to be right..
I also know of many businessmen who would previously gone EI premium to London, are now flying Ryanair if its cheaper..they go where the company pays for them to go and many companies are cutting costs. For quite a few i know, the perk of cushy flights is a thing of the past and its coach all the way whether they like it or not.
All my opinion of course, never claimed to be right..
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[QUOTEQuote:
well your own paymaster has'nt done too badly over the years from this industry.
Can you stick to the subject matter without personal abuse. ][/QUOTE]
your easily riled....if it was abuse the mods would have calved it yonks ago....
likewise back to your favourite topic at hand.
spot on, i think this is the crux of it for EIN.
well your own paymaster has'nt done too badly over the years from this industry.
Can you stick to the subject matter without personal abuse. ][/QUOTE]
your easily riled....if it was abuse the mods would have calved it yonks ago....
likewise back to your favourite topic at hand.
I agree with colegate, about EI being at a crossroads. After years of indecisive moves, confusing branding, low-cost Europe- frills on the atlantic, its about time that EI decided who they are, and what they are.
If they are fighting EZY on there home turf, they need to step up their game. They cant rely on ''people like flying with EI because they are nice''. They need to use there assets and use them wisely to compete vigouresly.
If they are fighting EZY on there home turf, they need to step up their game. They cant rely on ''people like flying with EI because they are nice''. They need to use there assets and use them wisely to compete vigouresly.
spot on, i think this is the crux of it for EIN.
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Most people i know are of the opinion that once they get from A to B safely and cheaply, they'll take that option everytime
I think we should let Bentley know their business is flawed.
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I agree with colegate, about EI being at a crossroads. After years of indecisive moves, confusing branding, low-cost Europe- frills on the atlantic, its about time that EI decided who they are, and what they are.
If they are fighting EZY on there home turf, they need to step up their game. They cant rely on ''people like flying with EI because they are nice''. They need to use there assets and use them wisely to compete vigouresly.
I agree too; now that the recession seems to be bottoming out (although unfortunately, plenty of bad news - particularly on the jobs front - still to come), the airline definitely needs to work out where it wants to go. It can expand on long haul, but not with the kind of operation it has now; it's even doubtful if the 330 (or 350) is the right aircraft; passengers will be more cost - and value - sensitive.
On short haul, exactly what is it going to take before EI cops on to the reality that a "one size fits all" (i.e. A320) operation is not the best way forward; sure, even by definition, a low cost A319 operator can sustain a cut-throat competition for longer; if an A319 and a 320 are both carrying (say) 70 pax, (assuming the same yields), who is going to last longer; a 319 may make a profit with 70 pax; can a 320?
Even a 319 may not do the job for EI; they really need to look at something smaller to stop themselves being pushed out of markets - particularly the regional UK markets - by FR. A once daily service to MAN and BHX should surely be a hint that something is just not working. Either get the relationship with RE working, or find a 100 seater; there's enough competition in that sector for one of the manufacturers to give EI a very good deal.
On a happier note, a little blast from the past ... from a time when flying was, well, different ...
YouTube - tecmovie's Channel
If they are fighting EZY on there home turf, they need to step up their game. They cant rely on ''people like flying with EI because they are nice''. They need to use there assets and use them wisely to compete vigouresly.
I agree too; now that the recession seems to be bottoming out (although unfortunately, plenty of bad news - particularly on the jobs front - still to come), the airline definitely needs to work out where it wants to go. It can expand on long haul, but not with the kind of operation it has now; it's even doubtful if the 330 (or 350) is the right aircraft; passengers will be more cost - and value - sensitive.
On short haul, exactly what is it going to take before EI cops on to the reality that a "one size fits all" (i.e. A320) operation is not the best way forward; sure, even by definition, a low cost A319 operator can sustain a cut-throat competition for longer; if an A319 and a 320 are both carrying (say) 70 pax, (assuming the same yields), who is going to last longer; a 319 may make a profit with 70 pax; can a 320?
Even a 319 may not do the job for EI; they really need to look at something smaller to stop themselves being pushed out of markets - particularly the regional UK markets - by FR. A once daily service to MAN and BHX should surely be a hint that something is just not working. Either get the relationship with RE working, or find a 100 seater; there's enough competition in that sector for one of the manufacturers to give EI a very good deal.
On a happier note, a little blast from the past ... from a time when flying was, well, different ...
YouTube - tecmovie's Channel