Aer Lingus - 5
Staff Costs (Aer Lingus) 334,300,000
employee count :4000 staff
Average employee cost : 83,575
Staff Costs (Ryanair) 285,343,000
employee count: 5262 people
Average employee cost: 54,227
employee count :4000 staff
Average employee cost : 83,575
Staff Costs (Ryanair) 285,343,000
employee count: 5262 people
Average employee cost: 54,227
EI has revenue per employee of 339,000 or staff costs per employee of 25%
FR estimating Q4 is same revenue as their Q1 will have revenue per employee of 575,000 or staff costs per employee of 9.4%.
Ryanair use contractors so there is an element which is not picked up but even that will not double the %.
As for Fleet size EI have 45ish, Ryanair have 180 plus now.
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What's all this "2 airlines at LGW" garbage being spouted regarding U2 and EI?
Take the 2 routes LGWAGP and LGWFAO.
Last year there were 4 airlines offering scheduled services on LGWAGP Easy/Monarch/BA and Thomson with market shares of 52%/24%/14% and 10% respectively.
The same 4 airlines were also present on LGWFAO with shares of 50%/21%/19% and 10%.
The only reason the Easy share is now so big is down to the acquisition of GB.
Prior to that, market share leadership used to fluctuate between U2/ZB/BA.
It would be foolish of EI to think that their only competiton at LGW was U2.
Quite frankly, it's a ridiculous idea doomed to failure. Easy has made its position quite clear with the increases in schedules on MUC/VIE for winter. They intend to drive EI out of LGW and restore some sanity to the marketplace as what EI is currently doing is commercial suicide.
Take the 2 routes LGWAGP and LGWFAO.
Last year there were 4 airlines offering scheduled services on LGWAGP Easy/Monarch/BA and Thomson with market shares of 52%/24%/14% and 10% respectively.
The same 4 airlines were also present on LGWFAO with shares of 50%/21%/19% and 10%.
The only reason the Easy share is now so big is down to the acquisition of GB.
Prior to that, market share leadership used to fluctuate between U2/ZB/BA.
It would be foolish of EI to think that their only competiton at LGW was U2.
Quite frankly, it's a ridiculous idea doomed to failure. Easy has made its position quite clear with the increases in schedules on MUC/VIE for winter. They intend to drive EI out of LGW and restore some sanity to the marketplace as what EI is currently doing is commercial suicide.
So EI need 88 staff to run 1 aircraft compared to FR only needing 29?
EI employee cost per aircraft is 7.5 M Euros
FR employee cost per aircraft is 1.6 M Euros - even adding in use of Contractors and assummin it brings cost to 3.0 M Euros then still 40% of EI.
Ave weighted number of aircraft is prob EI 45 / FR 160 over last year but using turnover figures I reckon EI takes 30M euros per aircraft and FR 20M Euros per aircraft.
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You cant compare staff costs like your attempting to there....
For a start, a sizeable proportion of EIs operation is based on A330s flying to the states.... have you tried operating an A330 with the same amount of crew/engineers/pilots/baggage loaders etc that you would a 737-800????
Ryanair are contracting a huge amount of work out.. the majority of FR pilots are contractors... Ryanair use a contract agency for cabin crew also...
Are You getting the same level of service on a Ryanair flight as You are an Aerlingus flight? No airport check in now? what happens if your printer at home is outta ink??
Do Ryanair flying into major airports?? Do you think that engineering support and ground support cost the same at some half assed airport 80 miles from a city as it does in Heathrow/DeGaule/Schipol/JFK/SFO/ORD/ etc etc..
Compare like with like lads,
For a start, a sizeable proportion of EIs operation is based on A330s flying to the states.... have you tried operating an A330 with the same amount of crew/engineers/pilots/baggage loaders etc that you would a 737-800????
Ryanair are contracting a huge amount of work out.. the majority of FR pilots are contractors... Ryanair use a contract agency for cabin crew also...
Are You getting the same level of service on a Ryanair flight as You are an Aerlingus flight? No airport check in now? what happens if your printer at home is outta ink??
Do Ryanair flying into major airports?? Do you think that engineering support and ground support cost the same at some half assed airport 80 miles from a city as it does in Heathrow/DeGaule/Schipol/JFK/SFO/ORD/ etc etc..
Compare like with like lads,
You cant compare staff costs like your attempting to there....
For a start, a sizeable proportion of EIs operation is based on A330s flying to the states.... have you tried operating an A330 with the same amount of crew/engineers/pilots/baggage loaders etc that you would a 737-800????
Ryanair are contracting a huge amount of work out.. the majority of FR pilots are contractors... Ryanair use a contract agency for cabin crew also...
For a start, a sizeable proportion of EIs operation is based on A330s flying to the states.... have you tried operating an A330 with the same amount of crew/engineers/pilots/baggage loaders etc that you would a 737-800????
Ryanair are contracting a huge amount of work out.. the majority of FR pilots are contractors... Ryanair use a contract agency for cabin crew also...
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Are these figures including the parked a/c the Ryanair had last winter? Surely it will be alot cheaper per A/c if there are 10 or 15 a/c not operating. Are All Ryanair aircraft working now on the summer schedule?
Are these figures including the parked a/c the Ryanair had last winter? Surely it will be alot cheaper per A/c if there are 10 or 15 a/c not operating. Are All Ryanair aircraft working now on the summer schedule?
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FR only operates European flights, so it has a lower number of staff.
EI operates 10 A330's, which is 20% of there fleet, so that takes up a lot of there crew. They also offer part-time options etc, to staff, so that increases the headcount again. EI also has staff on the ground in DUB, ORK and SNN operating check-in, cargo, catering, cleaning etc
The head count is too high to stay competitive. Cleaning and catering is the easy way to cut that number
EI operates 10 A330's, which is 20% of there fleet, so that takes up a lot of there crew. They also offer part-time options etc, to staff, so that increases the headcount again. EI also has staff on the ground in DUB, ORK and SNN operating check-in, cargo, catering, cleaning etc
The head count is too high to stay competitive. Cleaning and catering is the easy way to cut that number
Steve
Great idea but given ground operations run by existing operators is cut throat why would EI get involved as it can't make money on its existing business. Diversifying into a low price business with inflexible unions who would demand further disturbance allowances is I'm afraid a great way to lose even more money.
People don't care who their plane is cleaned by, serviced by and catered by.
Great idea but given ground operations run by existing operators is cut throat why would EI get involved as it can't make money on its existing business. Diversifying into a low price business with inflexible unions who would demand further disturbance allowances is I'm afraid a great way to lose even more money.
People don't care who their plane is cleaned by, serviced by and catered by.
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Servisair, Sky Handling and Aviance compete vicously for ground handling. EI would be mad to try to compete. Alpa catering, Gate Gourmet etc, all do the same, and can undercut EI by a lot.
Dedication and customer service is fine for front line staff, but like it was said, people dont care how dedicated or friendly cleaners, caters or loaders are, as they dont meet them.
Dedication and customer service is fine for front line staff, but like it was said, people dont care how dedicated or friendly cleaners, caters or loaders are, as they dont meet them.
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How can you compare rat race for your seat airlines like Ryanair or Easyjet to Aer Lingus?
Service will obviously cost a little more than sardine packers.
Oh and I think Ryanair save a heap on outstaion engineering by just flying the broken aircraft back to base before writing the fault up.
Safety also comes at a cost.
Training comes at a cost.
Respect comes at a cost.
Service will obviously cost a little more than sardine packers.
Oh and I think Ryanair save a heap on outstaion engineering by just flying the broken aircraft back to base before writing the fault up.
Safety also comes at a cost.
Training comes at a cost.
Respect comes at a cost.
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Any assumption that the 'orange parade' are deluded will ultimately prove very costly. EI would need to get smart and quickly if they are to avoid carnage in LGW. In Easyjet the world revolves around LGW. They will defend it much more vigorously than BFS. Problems in BFS were largely EI's own doing...Easy just sat back and watched.
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Barrington denies Aer Lingus may go bust
Monday, May 18 06:33:07
Aer Lingus chairman Colm Barrington has dismissed any chance of the airline going out of business within 18 months.
Speaking on radio, he said he denied "entirely" an accusation to that effect made by the chief executive of Ryanair Michael O'Leary.
He said: "Michael O'Leary speaks a lot of rubbish. Most of Michael O'Leary's rubbish is self-centred and is to make some point on his own behalf."
Mr Barrington confirmed, however, that Aer Lingus' operating loss would be bigger this year than it was in 2008.
He said its passenger traffic was down by 6.5pc in the first quarter of this year, and its yield was down nearly 15pc.
This, he said, was because the airline was having to discount to keep passenger numbers up.
It had already cut capacity by 9pc this year, and would be reducing its fleet to match market conditions.
He said the airline had 1.2bn euro in the bank, which translated into 600m euro net after debts.
Mr O'Leary has now hit back, telling the Irish Times this morning : "I didn't say they would go bust. I said they could run out of cash, which is something entirely different.
"He also said Ryanair will lose money this year. No we won't. We've already guided that .
"Most of the numbers he parrots out are generally wrong."
Mr O'Leary told that paper that if the current rate of cash burn continued at Aer Lingus, the airline could run out of cash by the end of 2010.
Monday, May 18 06:33:07
Aer Lingus chairman Colm Barrington has dismissed any chance of the airline going out of business within 18 months.
Speaking on radio, he said he denied "entirely" an accusation to that effect made by the chief executive of Ryanair Michael O'Leary.
He said: "Michael O'Leary speaks a lot of rubbish. Most of Michael O'Leary's rubbish is self-centred and is to make some point on his own behalf."
Mr Barrington confirmed, however, that Aer Lingus' operating loss would be bigger this year than it was in 2008.
He said its passenger traffic was down by 6.5pc in the first quarter of this year, and its yield was down nearly 15pc.
This, he said, was because the airline was having to discount to keep passenger numbers up.
It had already cut capacity by 9pc this year, and would be reducing its fleet to match market conditions.
He said the airline had 1.2bn euro in the bank, which translated into 600m euro net after debts.
Mr O'Leary has now hit back, telling the Irish Times this morning : "I didn't say they would go bust. I said they could run out of cash, which is something entirely different.
"He also said Ryanair will lose money this year. No we won't. We've already guided that .
"Most of the numbers he parrots out are generally wrong."
Mr O'Leary told that paper that if the current rate of cash burn continued at Aer Lingus, the airline could run out of cash by the end of 2010.
EI has already stated in March when 2008 results announced that they expected Net cash to be between 400-430 Million Euros at end of 2009 and that was forecast on a small loss.
Given that out of the 600 million at 2008 Year end EI is committed to paying 125 million to pay off those redundant and capital expenditure then the 400 million Net cash forecast at end of 2009 is looking very unachievable, it could be as low as 300 million.
If a sustained profitable recovery doesn't occur in 2010 then EI stuck in the position of it can't afford to sack people and it can't afford to keep them with the losses.
Given that out of the 600 million at 2008 Year end EI is committed to paying 125 million to pay off those redundant and capital expenditure then the 400 million Net cash forecast at end of 2009 is looking very unachievable, it could be as low as 300 million.
If a sustained profitable recovery doesn't occur in 2010 then EI stuck in the position of it can't afford to sack people and it can't afford to keep them with the losses.
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Previously operated and pulled in profit...
-Budapest ( but maybe not as much anymore with the reduction in workers)
-Warsaw (wizzair cash cow)
-Prague (daily profit on 737 for CSA with high fares)
-Budapest ( but maybe not as much anymore with the reduction in workers)
-Warsaw (wizzair cash cow)
-Prague (daily profit on 737 for CSA with high fares)
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I'm just going on the well-known basis that the average fares were between 100 and 150 euros a few years back on those 3 services and that the average load factor was in excess of 75%
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Survival is a positive idea in the current climate. People have said I am not positive enough, that in my view is flim flam. I put forward my views which I think hold the best way for the carrier in question to survive until better times come along. Your point that carriers pulled off a profitable route cannot be backed up as profit and loss by route is commercially confidential and is not published. Hence it is more than likely that they were :
a) Not as profitable as people think.
b) The assets can be used more profitably elsewhere.
The idea that aviation can just grow and grow and grow is palapable nonsense. The model was pretty broken beforehand and is straining big time now. The lack of business acumen in aviation has been known about for years.....
a) Not as profitable as people think.
b) The assets can be used more profitably elsewhere.
The idea that aviation can just grow and grow and grow is palapable nonsense. The model was pretty broken beforehand and is straining big time now. The lack of business acumen in aviation has been known about for years.....
The idea that aviation can just grow and grow and grow is palapable nonsense. The model was pretty broken beforehand and is straining big time now. The lack of business acumen in aviation has been known about for years.....
Ever since Wright Brothers the lack of business acumen has been known about.
Every Ego wants to own an airline.