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Old 25th May 2023, 22:07
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Well quite. But they've got through very rough patches in the past which I didn't think they would.

My P60 at Ryanair on non disrupted years was about £128k. I absolutely loathed long haul, (though I eschewed much of the socialising so a to avoid being consumed by overwhelming fatigue and jet lag). Ryanair was a decent company and I would happily go back there; (and they gave me a free type rating btw) probably my favourite employer before my current company which is really fantastic: - narrow body, and P60 at about £145kk as a standard line shag.

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Old 26th May 2023, 06:51
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I think any airline that survives Covid has a decent chance.

my biggest worry is what happens after Branson!
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Old 26th May 2023, 08:09
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RARA9 - not really. Things as they are are not worrying, considering the history of the company and what we've just endured. Show me any airline which you can 100% depend on nowadays.

Even BA, EK, etc have shown they wouldn't hesitate to dump you on the kerb in a heartbeat just for being on the wrong fleet/the wrong nationality if things turn downward. I figure I might as well enjoy the good times while they're here & if the worst happens, it happens. 20 years of short haul misery at BA, or getting battered 5 days a week at a LCC for your whole career, is a high price to pay for what is only an illusion of stability.

I personally like being paid to sit on beaches and doing one flight a day, and when I'm sitting on my rocking chair at 80 it'll be nice to have some decent stories and adventures from my flying career that don't all involve 25-minute turnrounds and disruptive passengers.
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Old 26th May 2023, 08:41
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Originally Posted by Rostermouse
RARA9 - not really. Things as they are are not worrying, considering the history of the company and what we've just endured. Show me any airline which you can 100% depend on nowadays.

Even BA, EK, etc have shown they wouldn't hesitate to dump you on the kerb in a heartbeat just for being on the wrong fleet/the wrong nationality if things turn downward. I figure I might as well enjoy the good times while they're here & if the worst happens, it happens. 20 years of short haul misery at BA, or getting battered 5 days a week at a LCC for your whole career, is a high price to pay for what is only an illusion of stability.

I personally like being paid to sit on beaches and doing one flight a day, and when I'm sitting on my rocking chair at 80 it'll be nice to have some decent stories and adventures from my flying career that don't all involve 25-minute turnrounds and disruptive passengers.
20 years of shorthaul misery at BA ? I donít know anyone that had to spend that length of time on SH if they didnít want to.
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Old 26th May 2023, 11:14
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Fair enough, I was considering LHS; since the original comparison was between SH LHS and VAA RHS, but I concede the point. What's the current time to Long-haul RHS in BA?
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Old 26th May 2023, 16:33
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Originally Posted by Rostermouse
Fair enough, I was considering LHS; since the original comparison was between SH LHS and VAA RHS, but I concede the point. What's the current time to Long-haul RHS in BA?
Well right now people join SH and youíre frozen for 5 years. 2018/19 they were taking some directly to LH. Unusual. I know loads who went SH 2017/18 and some going 350/787/777 this year. Again once you move frozen for 5 years.
This is all normally. BA can and have changed the rules.

I agreed a lot with what you say Rostermouse. I thought seriously hard between going LHS SH or jumping. As I hadnít had the money I took latter. I want to be old with memories of, yep I flew here and there rather than just smashing out 4 sectors a day 5 on 4 off for 30 years. IMO dull as dish water and I would probably give up flying before my time comes in that situation. The most miserable Captains I have ever met are SH long timers.
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Old 27th May 2023, 08:20
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I'd be really grateful to hear from any experienced FO's who made the switch to VA for long term RHS gig. Im mid 30s, single, approaching command on 320 ULCC. Were you happy with your decision, do you ever look back and wish you had given SH command a go?

Part of me tells me to take the command while I can get it, get some hair on the proverbial knuckles, as well as future proof the CV for any turbulence down the road. So if I get made redundant or something at VA, I'll be able to apply for 320 Command positions rather than FO. That option would mean staying where I am for next two years. Also I feel giving up command now will mean I don't see it for several years, whichever company I end up going to, even if I move to another 320 operator for example. I fly with a lot of captains 10 years my senior who were FOs for many years, from ME3 or similar, and they all came to my company solely for command. Which is telling

On the other hand, maybe I should just bite the bullet now and not put command on a pedestal. Take the wide body experience, solid salary, pension scheme, and being part of a 'proper' airline. And hopefully end up LHS on a wide body before I retire! NO idea how I would adapt to Long haul, I have to think it would be less tiring than entering discretion a few times per month, 4 sector days etc.

I've read the thread, understand this has already been discussed in some detail, but appreciate any opinions!

Regards
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Old 27th May 2023, 09:18
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Originally Posted by hugmie
I'd be really grateful to hear from any experienced FO's who made the switch to VA for long term RHS gig. Im mid 30s, single, approaching command on 320 ULCC. Were you happy with your decision, do you ever look back and wish you had given SH command a go?

Part of me tells me to take the command while I can get it, get some hair on the proverbial knuckles, as well as future proof the CV for any turbulence down the road. So if I get made redundant or something at VA, I'll be able to apply for 320 Command positions rather than FO. That option would mean staying where I am for next two years. Also I feel giving up command now will mean I don't see it for several years, whichever company I end up going to, even if I move to another 320 operator for example. I fly with a lot of captains 10 years my senior who were FOs for many years, from ME3 or similar, and they all came to my company solely for command. Which is telling

On the other hand, maybe I should just bite the bullet now and not put command on a pedestal. Take the wide body experience, solid salary, pension scheme, and being part of a 'proper' airline. And hopefully end up LHS on a wide body before I retire! NO idea how I would adapt to Long haul, I have to think it would be less tiring than entering discretion a few times per month, 4 sector days etc.

I've read the thread, understand this has already been discussed in some detail, but appreciate any opinions!

Regards
I've been through all this sort of thing and with the benefit of hindsight, I can say that for me all that matters is money in my bank and time spent at home. I gave up my first opportunity for command to go and scratch the wide body itch as an FO. It was fun but I prefer being a narrow body skipper on a decent money and home every week with no jet lag. Time spent in hotels down route works for some but after a dozen times in the same place it soon wears thin. I'd take the highest pay as soon as you can get it. Make hay while the sun shines...
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Old 27th May 2023, 10:12
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Originally Posted by Dragon Baron
I've been through all this sort of thing and with the benefit of hindsight, I can say that for me all that matters is money in my bank and time spent at home. I gave up my first opportunity for command to go and scratch the wide body itch as an FO. It was fun but I prefer being a narrow body skipper on a decent money and home every week with no jet lag. Time spent in hotels down route works for some but after a dozen times in the same place it soon wears thin. I'd take the highest pay as soon as you can get it. Make hay while the sun shines...

Totally agree!

Aside from the Command, the income as a Captain will make life considerably easier in respect of mortgage applications, disposable income etc.

I have also scratched the long-haul itch and, although I enjoyed the additional experience of wide-body aircraft ops, I much prefer getting home most nights.

Long term, I donít think all those time zone changes are particularly healthy and conducive to a long retirement.

If I was considering a long-haul career, Virgin or Norse would not be at the top of my list of choices.
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Old 27th May 2023, 10:16
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Originally Posted by Dragon Baron
I've been through all this sort of thing and with the benefit of hindsight, I can say that for me all that matters is money in my bank and time spent at home. I gave up my first opportunity for command to go and scratch the wide body itch as an FO. It was fun but I prefer being a narrow body skipper on a decent money and home every week with no jet lag. Time spent in hotels down route works for some but after a dozen times in the same place it soon wears thin. I'd take the highest pay as soon as you can get it. Make hay while the sun shines...
the flipside of the argument is I feel I spend more quality time at home. I have more days off. I donít ever have jet lag. Youíre not down route long enough to get it. I couldnít hack setting my alarm at 4am 4-5 days in a row or getting to bed at 2-3am 4-5 days in a row. I never saw my kids. I can plan my life. Which I couldnít do at shorthaul. But it really is a personal thing. You wonít know what suits you until you try both unfortunately.
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Old 27th May 2023, 10:43
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Solid advice lads! Thanks for the input, food for thought indeed.
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Old 27th May 2023, 16:31
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I am LHS 320 based in the UK. I am 75% part time fixed days and work almost exclusively Monday Tuesday and Wednesday and will continue to do so indefinitely.

last year I earned approx £110k (including a 5% bonus which may well not be repeated) plus 7% pension.

I can honestly say there isnít a job I would swap this for. Sure Iíd love to spend a few days getting paid to sit on the beach but you canít have it all.

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Old 27th May 2023, 17:32
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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Youíve got to admit that your working pattern is the exception rather than the rule. Iíd snap my arm off for that lifestyle. I fly longhaul for the home life, not for the destinations. I donít for a second believe Iíd get that kind of home life if I was still at my former SH airline. Though it is nice to bring people with me on the longer trips.
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Old 28th May 2023, 04:49
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Originally Posted by monkey.tennis
I am LHS 320 based in the UK. I am 75% part time fixed days and work almost exclusively Monday Tuesday and Wednesday and will continue to do so indefinitely.

last year I earned approx £110k (including a 5% bonus which may well not be repeated) plus 7% pension.

I can honestly say there isn’t a job I would swap this for. Sure I’d love to spend a few days getting paid to sit on the beach but you can’t have it all.
Originally Posted by back to Boeing
You’ve got to admit that your working pattern is the exception rather than the rule. I’d snap my arm off for that lifestyle. I fly longhaul for the home life, not for the destinations. I don’t for a second believe I’d get that kind of home life if I was still at my former SH airline. Though it is nice to bring people with me on the longer trips.

Senior LHS at Southwest can do the same schedule and make at least £200k, with 15% pension, and historically 10% bonus on top. And they just voted to strike by 99% if things don't get about 25% better....
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Old 28th May 2023, 12:00
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Originally Posted by hans brinker
Senior LHS at Southwest can do the same schedule and make at least £200k, with 15% pension, and historically 10% bonus on top. And they just voted to strike by 99% if things don't get about 25% better....
But then you have to live in America....
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Old 28th May 2023, 22:00
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Originally Posted by pudoc
But then you have to live in America....
I was born in the EU, have lived in 10 countries, flew in the EU for years and for the last 15 years have lived and worked in the US. You couldn't pay me enough to move back there. LITERALLY, because look at the pay rates... I really liked it there too, but my QOL here is very good. I live in a very nice city, commute to work, but still spend 15 days at home, and make about twice as much at least. I go back to visit my relatives, and their lives are not that much different from the life in the US. I do know the US is not for all of us, but neither is Europe. Brexit anyone?
#nov2010 🤣
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Old 28th May 2023, 22:40
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Originally Posted by pudoc
But then you have to live in America....
As a fan of the USA (and their mostly more generous spirited people), even back when the UK and the US were not so dissimilar in wealth and enterprise, it is now almost painful to go there and realise how American spending power (and reward for aspiration) has left the EU and UK way way behind in a feckless socialist fug, which Virgin crews will be reminded of each time they head west. So that comment above can only be made by someone who is unaware of the relative decline of their European bubble (and the EU bubble is a delight compared to brexit UK which is so diminished, it will soon be poorer than Poland, and indeed the poorest state of Mississippi). Long haul/short haul/Virgini/Ryanair - if you're stuck in that bubble, you're the poor relation, and getting poorer, so after tax pay differs little whether you work flat out, join the best paid company or whatever aspiration - for as long as you're ruled by "soak the rich" gerontocracy serving an economically inactive blob, sustained by a dwindling number of clobbered workers paying absolutely wilting levels of tax.

Last edited by midnight cruiser; 29th May 2023 at 09:09.
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Old 29th May 2023, 08:53
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This has gone way off topicÖ.
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Old 22nd Jun 2023, 22:26
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Advice

Hi All,

Apologies for the long winded comment.

For context Iím a young(ish) FO, made redundant by a certain poorly run uk regional airline. Iíve a start date as an SO with VAA later this year, and have assessments with Tui and potentially others.

Iím instructing for the time being to see me through till VAA, and by no means do I want to come across as ungrateful of my situation, Iím extremely chuffed Iíve got a job to go to.

That being said, I find my self indecisive about where I want to end up, for what I hope is a career job. I never saw myself going LH this soon, as I view it as unfulfilling in comparison to SH and would like to be home more often than not. That being said my biggest worry and possibly my main gripe is job security (term used lightly given the sh1thousery of this industry), probably a paranoia grown from a double whammy of redundancies. Iím not asking for anything directly, just if anyone had any honest guidance/advice or insight into these companies and/or this point in my career. Thanks lads/Ladettes
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Old 23rd Jun 2023, 08:03
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Originally Posted by PilotRichard
Hi All,

Apologies for the long winded comment.

For context Iím a young(ish) FO, made redundant by a certain poorly run uk regional airline. Iíve a start date as an SO with VAA later this year, and have assessments with Tui and potentially others.

Iím instructing for the time being to see me through till VAA, and by no means do I want to come across as ungrateful of my situation, Iím extremely chuffed Iíve got a job to go to.

That being said, I find my self indecisive about where I want to end up, for what I hope is a career job. I never saw myself going LH this soon, as I view it as unfulfilling in comparison to SH and would like to be home more often than not. That being said my biggest worry and possibly my main gripe is job security (term used lightly given the sh1thousery of this industry), probably a paranoia grown from a double whammy of redundancies. Iím not asking for anything directly, just if anyone had any honest guidance/advice or insight into these companies and/or this point in my career. Thanks lads/Ladettes
I think itís a very sensible thought process.
I think no airline is ďsafeĒ but some obviously safer than others Ö.
Virgin supposedly a seniority based airline showed their true colours during covid with an absolutely shocking display if any other virus/downturn happens be braced for a kick out the door.
LH isnít what it was as most airlines are shortening trip lengths when they can. I know many routes on the 777 at BA which are now just 1 nighters . Mates at Virgin saying the same thing. By all means fly a large jet ! It is fun for a while Ö. But ultimately itís just another Jet . Lifestyle should be number 1 factor I think followed by cash/risk.
just my thoughts Ö
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