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Old 21st Jul 2023, 16:09
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A320LGW
I see virgin have reopened hiring and this time open to EU citizens with visa sponsorship. UK citizens are at a huge disadvantage on the job market if more UK airlines start to do this because I can't see any European carrier doing it.
At least they've got blue passports
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Old 21st Jul 2023, 17:01
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone tell me how commutable the FO roster is? Airbus rated, so likely I'd end up in Airbus fleet? Also if you do happen to live outside the UK, are your various insurances only valid if living in the UK?

Finally, is c.£86,000 about right all in for a SFO?
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Old 21st Jul 2023, 17:24
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Anecdotally, from a friend, living in Europe, he is struggling with the commute with just two days between trips sometimes, and looking to leave, having been on the 787 in VA for only about nine months. Not sure if this is the norm, or just bad luck?
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Old 21st Jul 2023, 17:26
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Mate of mine has aged horribly in the last five years since he started commuting having joined VS. Trip two days off trip two days cycle ad Infinitum. This is 330/350 fleet. Doesnít sound like much fun.
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Old 22nd Jul 2023, 08:41
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 737 Jockey
Anecdotally, from a friend, living in Europe, he is struggling with the commute with just two days between trips sometimes, and looking to leave, having been on the 787 in VA for only about nine months. Not sure if this is the norm, or just bad luck?
how far is his commute?
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Old 22nd Jul 2023, 16:10
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Originally Posted by Oasis
how far is his commute?

Eastern Europe.
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Old 24th Jul 2023, 21:55
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Welcome to virgin 2.0

Originally Posted by 737 Jockey
Anecdotally, from a friend, living in Europe, he is struggling with the commute with just two days between trips sometimes, and looking to leave, having been on the 787 in VA for only about nine months. Not sure if this is the norm, or just bad luck?
yes that the norm now. Everyone is permanently tired.
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Old 25th Jul 2023, 08:14
  #308 (permalink)  
 
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I appreciate there’s reciprocal traffic, but definitely a few VA guys left for Jet2 recently, citing fatigue/lifestyle and company attitude as the main issues. Some even within a year of command. Says it all really.
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Old 25th Jul 2023, 08:39
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Originally Posted by 737 Jockey
definitely a few VA guys left for Jet2 recentlyÖÖ..
Not just Jet2, I hear it more and more that people are looking outside. Even a few newly promoted Captains are fed up and looking for DEC outside.

Iíve got 7 years to retirement and to be fair if the ex wife hadnít left me with a mortgage at my age Iíd have taken the payoff in 2020.

The problem with Virgin is we have a lot of selfish crew that will grab any overtime they can to line their pockets without thinking of the consequences to crewing levels.. and itís not the happy friendly place it was when I joined back in the 00ís where people would help out each other.
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Old 25th Jul 2023, 19:15
  #310 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ohfeck
The problem with Virgin is we have a lot of selfish crew that will grab any overtime they can to line their pockets without thinking of the consequences to crewing levels..
BALPA like to trot out this ethos at the big orange too, where attrition rate is very high. The individual pilots canít really be blamed for wanting a bit of extra dinero with the cost of the world. If people are using their fatigue mitigation tools then the message should be out there for the company to see itís not working. Surely at five trips a month thereís no scope for picking up any overtime at all, so which super-humans are actually picking this stuff up?

Virgin seem to be recruiting for courses into 2024 so one would expect that people picking up overtime isnít cutting the numbers too much?

Lets just hope the golden three comes good.
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Old 25th Jul 2023, 19:24
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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You want know what happens when pilots don't take that DOP for overtime? The overtime payment usually goes up, thus enticing more pilots to say yes. Eventually, even the goody-two-shoes ones accept. Failing that, the Airline cancels flights, which results in EU261 claims and probably the end of your job. Airlines would much rather offer DOPs than hire 25% more pilots. That's a lot of redundancy payouts for when the next (delete as appropriate) pandemic,terrorist attack,financial crash,volcanic eruption occurs.

Last edited by RudderTrimZero; 26th Jul 2023 at 09:48.
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Old 25th Jul 2023, 19:59
  #312 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seosan
Surely at five trips a month thereís no scope for picking up any overtime at all, so which super-humans are actually picking this stuff up?
You would think so, but some months people are getting 5 trips the next 3.. I flew with someone the other week that had picked up two extra flights each month for the last 6 month with out burning his leave.
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Old 26th Jul 2023, 10:00
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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I see Virgin pilots have overwhelmingly voted yes in an indicative ballot for discontinuous strike action over the changes imposed on them and their work practices after covid.

Good luck to Virgin pilots. Itís time management started listening to the very real concerns re fatigue and a work life balance.

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Old 26th Jul 2023, 18:31
  #314 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ohfeck
The problem with Virgin is we have a lot of selfish crew that will grab any overtime they can to line their pockets without thinking of the consequences to crewing levels.. and itís not the happy friendly place it was when I joined back in the 00ís where people would help out each other.
Utter garbage. You want people to stop doing overtime, get your union to ban it through collective action. Going after individuals for doing overtime at their agreed rate in line with their contract is whatís selfish.

Based on your retirement age, my guess is you donít have student debt weighing you down, training loans to repay, fledgling kids at home etc. You do you, donít throw stones at over people.

Nothing quite as laughable as someone near the top of their payscale and seniority list hammering junior pilots for stuff like that.
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Old 26th Jul 2023, 21:13
  #315 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VariablePitchP
Utter garbage. You want people to stop doing overtime, get your union to ban it through collective action. Going after individuals for doing overtime at their agreed rate in line with their contract is whatís selfish.

Based on your retirement age, my guess is you donít have student debt weighing you down, training loans to repay, fledgling kids at home etc. You do you, donít throw stones at over people.

Nothing quite as laughable as someone near the top of their payscale and seniority list hammering junior pilots for stuff like that.
Quite right. And you do you. Feast on the last sumptious scraps in your Westwood robes while Rome burns around you. Throwing stones at the generation that fought hard for the rights you are throwing away is real garbage. Or rubbish as we say outside Delta.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 08:06
  #316 (permalink)  
 
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Are there really so few UK pilots applying for these jobs that they feel the need to sponsor visas for EU applicants?
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 08:53
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mrguy
Are there really so few UK pilots applying for these jobs that they feel the need to sponsor visas for EU applicants?

people have VERY short memoryís , the way Virgin and other certain airlines treated pilots during covid was terrible , Iím sure that amongst other reasons is a factor.
I feel if lots of airlines start getting cheap labour from Europe into uk airlines it will not end well for us Ö.
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 09:27
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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We urgently need to get a handle on this as pilots through whichever means. There needs to be a way of ascertaining when an airline has a right to hire foreign/cheap labour. They can pull the wool over the UK governments eyes by saying there is a pilot shortage, all-the-while not even increasing salaries by 5%.

Virgin has about 40 aircraft in its fleet right now. How many pilots does it have?
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Old 27th Jul 2023, 17:01
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RudderTrimZero
We urgently need to get a handle on this as pilots through whichever means. There needs to be a way of ascertaining when an airline has a right to hire foreign/cheap labour. They can pull the wool over the UK governments eyes by saying there is a pilot shortage, all-the-while not even increasing salaries by 5%.
Believe it or not, it's not down to Virgin to decide if they're allowed to hire non-UK citizens. That falls on the government, who currently require non-UK airline pilots to be paid £50,800 in order to satisfy a sponsored visa, which is a good chunk less than what the FO year one is at VS. Ultimately, who cares where the applicants come from? Variety in life and flying experience is a good thing. It's up to BALPA to actually negotiate a decent QOL for the flight crew they represent.
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Old 28th Jul 2023, 00:16
  #320 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seosan
Ultimately, who cares where the applicants come from?
Everyone who is a UK passport holder and has a basic grasp of how labour supply affects wages maybe?
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