BA Direct Entry Pilot.

[Gingerbread Man]

I appreciate no one has a crystal ball, but is it likely that BA will continue to recruit in the numbers they have done for the last five years? I can think of reasons why recruitment would increase in the way it has done (retirements, leavers, part time, expansion), but have trouble expecting that any of those would lead to a sustained intake of ~200 DEPs per year.

I’ve probably not considered something obvious, and I don’t have access to the numbers for this stuff, but there seems to be quite a lot of potential for new joiners to sit close to the bottom of the list for a long time.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Gingerbread Man

I appreciate no one has a crystal ball, but is it likely that BA will continue to recruit in the numbers they have done for the last five years? I can think of reasons why recruitment would increase in the way it has done (retirements, leavers, part time, expansion), but have trouble expecting that any of those would lead to a sustained intake of ~200 DEPs per year.

I’ve probably not considered something obvious, and I don’t have access to the numbers for this stuff, but there seems to be quite a lot of potential for new joiners to sit close to the bottom of the list for a long time.

Broadly speaking over the next decade the number of retirements and part time requests are likely to drive substantial recruitment. Add to that the circa 1% of medical retirements each year and those leaving from the bottom of the list for myriad reasons and I can't see recruitment slowing down that much. There may be blips in line with the economic atmosphere of course.

[GS-Alpha]

Originally Posted by Gingerbread Man

I appreciate no one has a crystal ball, but is it likely that BA will continue to recruit in the numbers they have done for the last five years? I can think of reasons why recruitment would increase in the way it has done (retirements, leavers, part time, expansion), but have trouble expecting that any of those would lead to a sustained intake of ~200 DEPs per year.

I’ve probably not considered something obvious, and I don’t have access to the numbers for this stuff, but there seems to be quite a lot of potential for new joiners to sit close to the bottom of the list for a long time.

~200 pilots a year does seem like a lot to sustain but it is actually only 5% of the workforce, which doesn’t seem that difficult to imagine with a bit of expansion, retirement, demand for part time, and recently recruited pilots deciding BA isn’t quite what they expected.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Broadly speaking over the next decade the number of retirements and part time requests are likely to drive substantial recruitment.

However nobody got granted a transfer onto a Aspirational Part Time as a result of the latest run ,( due to pressures on recruitment and training,) and it will be interesting to see how many bids for Right to Request get approved given the current climate.

One look at the relevant place on Yammer shows that a few of the late 1980’s DEPs are starting to shuffle off, plus rumours of resignations from the bottom of the list so who knows what the requirement will be? ..I suspect there will be a few hundred a year for the foreseeable future, Finance allowing. In terms of joining BA and then moving rapidly up the seniority list it is worth bearing in mind that although the senior old g**** are thinning out there are a lot of the early Cadets (late 80 entry dates onwards) with maybe a decade to go sitting at or near the top of the lists...

[kookiesandkreme]

Hi everyone,

quick question - as a new joiner with low seniority at Heathrow, how hard would it be to get mainly day trips? I don’t mind doing 4 sector days etc (if these exist) but I live nearby and don’t commute as such.

Thanks

[Thegreenmachine]

If you accept (which you won’t have much choice in anyway) the low credit stuff, ie “short” day trips NCE, TXL, PRG, BLQ, BCN etc it will be fairly easy. You can set minimal night stops as a bid and it should work for you, I know a couple of people who do exactly that. As above, swapping is relatively easy anyway.

[kookiesandkreme]

Originally Posted by Thegreenmachine

If you accept (which you won’t have much choice in anyway) the low credit stuff, ie “short” day trips NCE, TXL, PRG, BLQ, BCN etc it will be fairly easy. You can set minimal night stops as a bid and it should work for you, I know a couple of people who do exactly that. As above, swapping is relatively easy anyway.

Okay, thank you. And once you’ve got some decent seniority - you at able to get high credit day trips too?

thanks

[Thegreenmachine]

Originally Posted by kookiesandkreme

Okay, thank you. And once you’ve got some decent seniority - you at able to get high credit day trips too?

thanks

Ask me again in a few years !

In a nutshell yes. Or you can be more flexible with day off requests, or you can bid for the longer layovers, or you can bid for the nice destinations with decent hotel, or you can bid for the trips with only one operating sector back, or, or...

[Safety_]

Question

Hello all,

Starting BA A320 LHR...

I have some buzzing questions...
Anyone please kindly share some light...

Is it easier to get (considering the bottom of seniority placement) night stops or you're likely to get day trips as a junior?
Personally I don't mind long trips away but not sure how realistic it will be to get those?
Also, what is the average longest trip on A320 fleet at LHR?

Secondly overtime I heard it gets our credits?
How does one get overtime is it generally a call or you have an option in the bidding system?
I am not sure of the system and how it works so sorry in advance to ask silly questions!

Any idea on the roster at LHR... I know its completely varied and depends on seniority. But generally is it busy in summer and winter both or it has phases
Thanks! I am excited to join to see what's inside the tin!

Fly safe!

[bex88]

Hi Safety, well done and welcome

Roster, you bid placing types of trips in a order of preference. There are loads of options but to keep it simple if you want trips you say I want trips 2-4 days. If you don’t mind day trips you say, I’ll have these too but I prefer trips.....it’s way more complicated but you will get a 1052 page brief guide to it.

Day trips, yes but probably the lower credit 4:30 stuff and early and weekends. Trips, yes but again probably the 2 day 6. You may see some 3 or 4 days trips but they tend to be more desirable unless they slam 4 sectors in day 2 and 3. Max trip length is 5 days.

Overtime. Providing you are above CAP....remember that first statement. You can pick up any available work via our online system. You can also trade trips for others you prefer, subject to the rules. If you pick up a overtime trip and you are over CAP you will be paid at your bidline rate x 1.2 for the trip.....yes a amazing 20% extra! If that trip is 4:30 credit (min credit per day) you will get 4.5 x your hourly rate at the premium of 1.2

Example you pick up a BCN it’s 4:30 and your rate is £60, you will get £324 plus flight pay and duty pay before tax. The fact it’s 7 hours duty seems to be missed on BA.

Rosters are busier in the summer than the winter but it is never really slack. I did roughly 800hrs and 185 days work last year. Busiest month was 18days.......actually an improvement over the old system for me.

[GS-Alpha]

The premium rate is lower for short haul than it is for long haul then? I did not know that.

[FACoff]

Originally Posted by bex88

Overtime. Providing you are above CAP....remember that first statement. You can pick up any available work via our online system. You can also trade trips for others you prefer, subject to the rules. If you pick up a overtime trip and you are over CAP you will be paid at your bidline rate x 1.2 for the trip.....yes a amazing 20% extra! If that trip is 4:30 credit (min credit per day) you will get 4.5 x your hourly rate at the premium of 1.2

Minor points I suppose but a) is it definite that since the introduction of JSS we need to have met CAP before overtime is paid? And b) pretty sure it's still 1.25 on NCP, not that it makes a huge difference to anyone.

BA do rely on those lower down the list picking up overtime. They get dirt cheap labour (i.e. PP1 overtime rates, which are !!!!e) whilst desperate newbie's get a fraction more in their pay cheque. The whole system is designed such that those needing cash the most are paid the least.

[wiggy]

Doesn't it depend on whether you have Time Assignability (TASS) on your line or not?

If you have TASS hours on your line (for whatever reason) you will only get overtime for the hours worked over the CAP..if OTOH you are TASS free (e.g; bank hours used to "get" you to CAP) then all overtime is payable...

In my defence I'd add I think only a handful of people claim to understand JSS, I reckon in reality maybe one person might have a clue..and I'm not of of them...

TBH looking at some junior (Longhaul) lines recently I'm not sure WTH there would be any scope or space for overtime.

[bex88]

Yeah it’s 1.25

TASS, you need to have discharged your TASS by picking up work or have the TASS as time expired before you pick up any work. If you don’t do that you just offset the TASS without any overtime pay.

FO’s do squeeze in overtime but their rosters are constant 6 on 1 off 5 on 2 off kind of deal. Overtime is really not very appealing but Wiggy sums it up nicely.

[Airbus38]

Just to answer the question in slightly simpler terms (CAP, credit, TASS and NCP are not things anybody outside of BA will understand)...

- S/H has tours of up to 5 days; each month you can bid for the work you want and even at the bottom of the seniority list achieve plenty of 2,3 and 4 day trips. However, work on having at least a couple of day trips every month. If you don’t live within easy driving distance you will need accommodation of some sort near LHR a few nights every month between trips.

- LGW is different, mostly day trips for everybody. You need to live within easy commuting distance.

- Overtime is available; at LHR it is all electronic...log in to the online rostering system, if you see a trip which fits on your line legally then you can pick it up and generally be paid overtime for it. I say generally, because there are a few health warnings to go with it; complicated, but essentially if you didn’t already have your full monthly work commitment on your roster then additional work just plugs the gap and doesn’t get paid as overtime. Best understood (sadly) by getting it wrong in your early days - the system has lots of intricacies and catches out the most experienced guys. Top tip - once training complete, chat to skippers over a beer down route and you’ll pick it up gradually! The value of the trip depends on numerous factors, but largely how many flying hours it contains and what your paypoint is.

- Overtime at LGW is not electronic. You can ring up to volunteer days in advance, or alternatively wait for desperate text messages for uncovered work on the day and then ring up. FOs get paid a flat rate of £514.33 per day (before tax), two days payable if the trip goes over midnight so can be very lucrative for an easy 2-sector late.

I hope that helps to give a broad overview - I would stress once again that the bidding system is complicated and best learned about gradually once line training finished!

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by Airbus38

I would stress once again that the bidding system is complicated and best learned about gradually once line training finished!

Sound advice...

[Falling_Penguin]

Very helpful post, thank you Airbus38.

[Paddingtonbear]

FOs get paid a flat rate of £514.33 per day

Really? That's news to me.

[Airbus38]

Yup - 75% of Captain’s Rest Day Working (was 50%, increased some time in 2019 apparently to stop the growing trend for ‘haggling’ with Current Ops when they were desperate).

Note - rate quoted is the 2020 figure taking the pay rise in to account, and to be clear this is the ‘overtime’ (‘Rest Day Working’) payment applicable to LGW S/H pilots.

[Serenity]

Originally Posted by bex88

FO’s do squeeze in overtime but their rosters are constant 6 on 1 off 5 on 2 off kind of deal. Overtime is really not very appealing but Wiggy sums it up nicely.

Sounds horrendous!!
At what point do you drop from exhaustion??
Safe??