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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 4th Jul 2019, 10:44
  #6441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 713
Youíre in the minority on Long Haul if all youíve done is 700 hours.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 4th Jul 2019, 12:56
  #6442 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
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Originally Posted by Mylius View Post


And the people who have moved from Virgin to BA on the 787? Whatís their reasoning? As always you need to take a long-term view to a career at BA. In terms of variety and career options itís hard to beat. I have flown 700 hours full time (including positioning) in the last 12 months so the thought of an extra 50 elsewhere is frightening! Point re-proven.
700 !!!!!! May I ask what fleet you are on and your seniority
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 14:59
  #6443 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 566
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post


700 !!!!!! May I ask what fleet you are on and your seniority
And how much time youíve had off with sickness, dependency, or cancelled trips due to fleet engine problems perhaps? 700 hours is definitely only achieved by a few and to suggest otherwise is pure fiction.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 15:07
  #6444 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 46
Iím guessing you mean itís unlikely anyoneís done less that 700 hours on LH?

If not in the last few years Iíve done no more than 650-700 full time LGW, with no long term absence. I do work every weekend though
JulietSierra6 is online now  
Old 4th Jul 2019, 15:24
  #6445 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 21
100 hours overtime last year and my flying hours were about 750 - no sick days. (SH LHR)
WhatTheDeuce is offline  
Old 4th Jul 2019, 16:52
  #6446 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South of the North pole
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Originally Posted by Stocious View Post
Cool. I live in a lovely house in the Sussex countryside, near a lovely school, spend every night in my own bed and I leave the house 25 mins before report time. I know which I'd prefer!
Cant argue with that logic.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 20:01
  #6447 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 287
Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds View Post
Just for completeness, Seeded Blindlines were ONLY on the 747.....the other long haul fleets weren't so lucky. However when I joined on a LH Fleet Blindlines were pretty good and trading with EOT was very easy allowing me to totally rewrite my roster some months.

I'm currently about 2/3 down the P2 list on the 777.....rosters are manageable but under JSS I'm very realistic about what I can expect so bid accordingly. My real gripe at the moment is the number of weekends worked per annum which is ridiculous. In fact it's having a very serious impact on my family life. That said, I met a lovely bloke on my last trip who's just vacated the LHS of the Bus to return to the RHS on the triple. So short of moving to the RHS of the SH Bus and gaining a huge chunk of relative seniority I'm stuck with it. Hopefully the efforts towards getting a fairer balance of weekends off can be achieved soon!

As you say, stories of DEP's joining then swiftly leaving (I know of at least 2 other guys who've done the same) and people giving up a BA Short Haul Command to return to the RHS on a Long Haul fleet to regain some sort of life out of work says a lot!!! Pretty sad really isn't it.
The issue of weekends off is even more relevant in today's "I want it now" society and where lifestyle is a big plus for Aircrew.
Back in the good ole days there was no such thing as part time. Now days there is one UK AOC (big red and yellow machine) that's see's part time as a positive way of keeping its crews,(probably 20% are P/T) This ensures their loyalty (most of the time), offering fixed roster pattern for a large amount of crew and has agreements for days off in a year (never enough for Nigel's but a good amount) and has an agreement on weekends off also.
The problem for BALPA is getting their members to think collectively rather than just for themselves - Good luck with that. If BA are to offer more weekends they will want something back e.g. no payrise, 1000 hours etc etc


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Old 5th Jul 2019, 07:09
  #6448 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 706
If BA are to offer more weekends they will want something back e.g. no payrise, 1000 hours etc etc
I donít follow your logic. You canít compare a cargo airline (Iím presuming you are talking about DHL) with a scheduled pax carrier when looking at scheduling. How are BA going to offer more weekends off? Cancel flights? There will always be a need for BA pilots to work weekends. We arenít talking about a charter operation here.

Weekends off come more frequently with seniority in a seniority driven system. Itís really as simple as that. All the collective Nigelism in the world wonít stop the need for Saturday-Sunday reports.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2019, 07:20
  #6449 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Thatís assuming you can get Part Time in the current climate. People with bids are getting rejected left, right and centre.
Is part time seniority driven or dependent on what you ask for?

I heard BA were quite flexible so that side appeals to me.

Otherwise may as well go somewhere else and earn decent money.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 08:25
  #6450 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Originally Posted by BitMoreRightRudder View Post
How are BA going to offer more weekends off? Cancel flights? There will always be a need for BA pilots to work weekends. We aren’t talking about a charter operation here.

Agreed..the company could reduce exposure to weekends by reducing CAP, which would mean either reducing the flying programme or employing a lot more pilots..what are the chances

Wanting weekends off isn't something new but there isn't a complete fix and even those of us on senior long haul rosters will see work touch or completely cover the majority of weekends in a month ( though you do bump into the irritating outliers who like to claim they never work weekends..).

Re Part Time and Aiminghigh's question:

..I don't have the numbers to hand but:

I gather getting an Aspirational Part Time Contract ( as in I'd like Part Time) is rather problematic.

Some folks are getting a "no" to " to asks for "Right to Request" contracts.

So yes, the observation that people are having difficulty getting a part time contracts is true.
wiggy is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2019, 11:19
  #6451 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 499
BMRR. Not wanting to distract from what is a BA thread but comparisons can be useful and the point made was that the red and yellow machine has weekends off as part of a scheduling agreement rather than being miserable for a number of years until seniority becomes your friend.

Freight does move at weekends and plenty of crews have weekends away from home in all sorts of places. Also getting home am sat after a string of nights doesnít really count as a weekend off, neither does reporting sun pm.

Out of interest does BA have a contractual annual Days free of Duty total? (Leave plus OFF days). How far in advance is the roster published? Once published can the days worked be adjusted without consent?

just curious.

Last edited by deltahotel; 5th Jul 2019 at 11:34.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 13:23
  #6452 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post

Out of interest does BA have a contractual annual Days free of Duty total? (Leave plus OFF days).


No, not as such..in basic terms for guaranteed days off you have your 4 weeks leave, plus ,if you opt not to work in them you have a handful off wrap ( buffer) days associated with the leave,, plus 2 Duty Free weeks, and up to 6 Golden days you can also opt to take. Outside of that It's down to EASA.

How far in advance is the roster published?
20 days. For example August's roster should come out 11 July.

Once published can the days worked be adjusted without consent?
General answer would be no, but there is an minor element of "it depends"....if a trip is cancelled before you leave base then depending on circumstances you might be expected to be available for a replacement trip that covers the days of the original trip plus one day. Once you've left base you pretty much have to suck up any changes and accept any extra days worked - which I guess is pretty universal.

Last edited by wiggy; 5th Jul 2019 at 14:45.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 17:17
  #6453 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 706
Not wanting to distract from what is a BA thread but comparisons can be useful and the point made was that the red and yellow machine has weekends off as part of a scheduling agreement rather than being miserable for a number of years until seniority becomes your friend.
That sounds like a very sensible rostering solution. If BA pilots were given Carte Blanche to design their own agreement something like that may well work better for future generations.

The problem is BA doesnít work like that, and in a seniority system you have to accept a period at the bottom. Which means years of majority weekend working.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2019, 17:27
  #6454 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 262
It beats me why a bunch of new joiners don't club together and mount a legal challenge against the application of seniority in BA -open and shut case.
Joe le Taxi is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2019, 18:12
  #6455 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Originally Posted by BitMoreRightRudder View Post
The problem is BA doesn’t work like that, and in a seniority system you have to accept a period at the bottom. Which means years of majority weekend working.


I've just had a look at the rosters at the top of a longhaul senority list ( numbers < 100) and a significant number are working 2 or 3 weekends in July, and at least one is working 4. I'm not at that stratospheric level of seniority but I've just come a run of three weekends on the trot ( albeit by choice, to get the trips then subsequent days off I needed).

I'll emphasise that I don't agree that there should be a situation where somebody is forced to work every weekend outside of leave for years on end but we need to be careful of creating an impression that weekend working is very much more biased towards juniority than perhaps is actually the case.

Last edited by wiggy; 5th Jul 2019 at 19:50.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 21:16
  #6456 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL370
Age: 33
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
I've just had a look at the rosters at the top of a longhaul senority list ( numbers < 100) and a significant number are working 2 or 3 weekends in July, and at least one is working 4. I'm not at that stratospheric level of seniority but I've just come a run of three weekends on the trot ( albeit by choice, to get the trips then subsequent days off I needed).

I'll emphasise that I don't agree that there should be a situation where somebody is forced to work every weekend outside of leave for years on end but we need to be careful of creating an impression that weekend working is very much more biased towards juniority than perhaps is actually the case.
Absolutely agree with the above. Iím in the top third on my fleet. In May I worked two weekends (my choice), June I worked every weekend (definitely not my choice!), July Iím working one weekend (my choice) and by using leave and golden days I already know I wonít be working any weekends in August.
EMB-145LR is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2019, 22:01
  #6457 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by EMB-145LR View Post


Absolutely agree with the above. I’m in the top third on my fleet. In May I worked two weekends (my choice), June I worked every weekend (definitely not my choice!), July I’m working one weekend (my choice) and by using leave and golden days I already know I won’t be working any weekends in August.


A fair bit more senior then and on the same fleet as EMB-145LR (top fifth on the fleet) and have pretty much worked every weekend this year. Working a weekend doesn't bother me and therefore I have nothing in my bid groups restricting the amount of weekend work. Also seen a graph with the weekend points vs seniority on our fleet (FO A320 LHR) and you would be surprised how weekend points are much more spread over the whole seniority range then some assume it is.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 23:12
  #6458 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 194
The anecdote above, that senior people are working lots of weekends in July, is because BALPA/BA have recently incentivised weekend work that enables you to accumulate points that result in you not having to do 21 days of standby in a row (called ĎReserveí)

So now if youíre junior you might get a few more weekends off than you used to, but youíre going to do a little more reserve as a consequence.

Right Engine is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 07:01
  #6459 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by Right Engine View Post
The anecdote above, that senior people are working lots of weekends in July, is because BALPA/BA have recently incentivised weekend work that enables you to accumulate points that result in you not having to do 21 days of standby in a row (called ĎReserveí)

So now if youíre junior you might get a few more weekends off than you used to, but youíre going to do a little more reserve as a consequence.
Out of interest do you reckon the points scheme really has much of an effect? I've yet to hear anybody to say " I bid for this weekends XXX" ' cos I needed the points, though I accept some might do that.


wiggy is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2019, 07:06
  #6460 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by Right Engine View Post
The anecdote above, that senior people are working lots of weekends in July, is because BALPA/BA have recently incentivised weekend work that enables you to accumulate points that result in you not having to do 21 days of standby in a row (called ĎReserveí)

So now if youíre junior you might get a few more weekends off than you used to, but youíre going to do a little more reserve as a consequence.

No it has nothing to do with the trippling of the weekend points. The graph was from just before the weekend points got trippled.

Since the first day of the introduction of JSS Iíve had 3 weekends off and 2 of those were because of holidays, the other one I worked every other weekend that month I already made cap during those trips.
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