BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
No I’m not disputing what you’re saying it’s absolutely correct, it’s a recent “change”. My cynical mind is just suspecting that it’s being used as a convenient tool to be able to coerce someone into taking a SH position by making it look as though that candidate has somehow failed to make “the grade” for long haul. The truth is that the BA sim has always been pass/fail with a long haul conversion in mind so have they suddenly dropped the standard?
It’s also a complete nonsense from the POV that, other than your seniority number, there is no further assessment from inside the company to “Long Haul Suitability” once the engagement freeze is over so someone who has five years of SH behind them when doing the BA sim but assessed as “unsuitable for long haul” isn’t really going to be any significantly more or less suitable after another five years. So as I say it’s a convenient tool for the company to get more people onto SH.
It’s also a complete nonsense from the POV that, other than your seniority number, there is no further assessment from inside the company to “Long Haul Suitability” once the engagement freeze is over so someone who has five years of SH behind them when doing the BA sim but assessed as “unsuitable for long haul” isn’t really going to be any significantly more or less suitable after another five years. So as I say it’s a convenient tool for the company to get more people onto SH.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 179
Likes: 25
From: uk
LH suitability is your ability to demonstrate effectively that you can operate the sim which in this case is 744 to a high standard.By this I mean close to LPC standard.It used to be 2000hrs but the process has evolved.
The assessor has to ask himself will the candidate be able to cope with maybe just two or three landings a month with extremes of weather possible.If in doubt revert to SH until they have built up enough competency to cope with the aforementioned scenario.
The assessor has to ask himself will the candidate be able to cope with maybe just two or three landings a month with extremes of weather possible.If in doubt revert to SH until they have built up enough competency to cope with the aforementioned scenario.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 128
Likes: 1
From: The Peaks
LH suitability is your ability to demonstrate effectively that you can operate the sim which in this case is 744 to a high standard.By this I mean close to LPC standard.It used to be 2000hrs but the process has evolved.
The assessor has to ask himself will the candidate be able to cope with maybe just two or three landings a month with extremes of weather possible.If in doubt revert to SH until they have built up enough competency to cope with the aforementioned scenario.
The assessor has to ask himself will the candidate be able to cope with maybe just two or three landings a month with extremes of weather possible.If in doubt revert to SH until they have built up enough competency to cope with the aforementioned scenario.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: UK
Pretty much as I saw it. In fact in the sim brief the instructor asked what rumours we had heard about the session. To clear it up he said you have to prove you will not be a financial liability to BA and pass the TR and line training without fuss. Secondly, do you have the ability to handle a heavy off the bat (based on virtually no candidate arrives with 747 experience). If you check the LH box your hold pool says hold pool, if you don't it says A320 hold pool (apparently).
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 10
From: Samsonite Avenue
Whilst I am unaware of the criteria that are used to determine if they can shorten a type rating course based on previous experience, those with widebody experience will probably be earmarked for a widebody type from the outset. This would reduce the availability of widebody courses for those without experience and who may be hoping for a course.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: London
Rosters in BA are completely different to what you probably experienced before. They are a very personal thing since we can put so many preferences into the system. Sharing a junior roster would therefor not be of any use since you are most likely unable to find out what the owner (once the roster is published in BA you become the owner of your roster, it therefor doesn't change anymore and is pretty much written in concrete, on average I had 1 roster change every other year) their rostering preferences are.
For example I'm relatively senior on SH and if you look at my roster you would probably be disgusted, I work pretty much every weekend. For me on the other hand weekends are not important and preventing them is not something I put in my preferences. The same goes for consecutive days off, early/lates, tours/daytrips, destinations, etc., etc.
With regards to SH rosters expect to have limited control on your roster the first year. If you want one weekend off and that is your only preference you probably get it. If you want a weekend off, LIS night stops, lates and only three day tours you will fail until you get around 50% seniority. At the current rate of recruitment getting to 50% seniority should take you about 2-3 years. What I'm trying to say with the previous example is the more senior you get the more picky you can get with your preferences till the point were you are no 1 on the list were you litterly write your own roster.
On LH you get the same, with the difference being that every unfrozen pilot who joined the company before you once they move to your LH fleet will slot in more senior to you. To get to 50% seniority on LH could therefore easily take up to 8-10 years.
Last edited by Jumbo2; 8th February 2020 at 11:10.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Last edited by VinRouge; 8th February 2020 at 10:47.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: London
True, but it will still take 8-10 years before you get to 50% on LH. Most likely you will lose some seniority after you gained some on the LH fleets with lots of SH pilots being un frozen now, we have the 74 fleet about to go into rundown so they will move to other LH fleets and if you join now you are behind a group of around 1500 pilots who joined in the last 5 years.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
True, but it will still take 8-10 years before you get to 50% on LH. Most likely you will lose some seniority after you gained some on the LH fleets with lots of SH pilots being un frozen now, we have the 74 fleet about to go into rundown so they will move to other LH fleets and if you join now you are behind a group of around 1500 pilots who joined in the last 5 years.
Most guys seem to be picking to go to the newer types at the mo, particularly 350 and 787 (not forgetting -10 expansion) as both fleets are turbo junior on the FO list. There are also a lot who are leaving from the upper end, 12-15 years in, who want to grab command before their pensionable benefits get locked out from the changes. 777X is scheduled in too around when, 22-24, so wouldn’t mind betting A lot of 747 chaps go that way (shiny new jet)
Unusual times, it won’t continue, but for now I’m not complaining.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
The closure of the NAPS final salary pension scheme a couple of years back, came with a transition period within which FOs could move to the equivalent captain pay scale for pension purposes. Commands must be obtained by the end of 2023 for this to happen. Many will have initially held out hope for a long haul command, but as 2023 draws closer the more junior ex NAPS FOs will likely give more consideration to taking short haul commands in order to lock in the NAPS pension uplift.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: surrey
The closure of the NAPS final salary pension scheme a couple of years back, came with a transition period within which FOs could move to the equivalent captain pay scale for pension purposes. Commands must be obtained by the end of 2023 for this to happen. Many will have initially held out hope for a long haul command, but as 2023 draws closer the more junior ex NAPS FOs will likely give more consideration to taking short haul commands in order to lock in the NAPS pension uplift.
Apologies if I’m completely off the ball, but would this apply to a new joiner?
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: surrey