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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 6th Nov 2019, 21:04
  #6621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: surrey
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post

Yes they will only go short haul. As far as I am aware, they have a longer training footprint than DEPs, but are significantly cheaper once they are trained up. They will be in a hold pool just the same, but that will not mean they are at the back of the current queue. Each pilot is recruited from the pool according to how their particular training footprint, and destination fleet requires. It is not a straight forward first into the pool, first out.
Will they go below current swimmers in the hold pool? What’s the case with the l3 tagged cadets, do they slot below current swimmers based on the final assessment dates?
kookiesandkreme is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 12:59
  #6622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Hello folks.

Considering BA at the moment.

Hypothetically... If I was offered and subsequently accepted DEP long haul (not too fussed on fleet as long as it's long haul), and bid for a LGW command on day 1 of joining, how would that work out in theory? (Have plenty of Airbus hours). Am I correct in saying your type freeze wouldn't apply in that instance? And am I also correct in saying that LGW command is c.18 months at the moment? How long is the hold pool at the moment? Any other flaws in my plan? i.e worst case, what happens if you don't get through a A320 command course, do you go back to LH FO?

Many thanks in advance.
FRYVA is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 14:14
  #6623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 94
You are engagement frozen for five training years when you start at BA, however this can be reduced to four years for a first command. Unless you are short haul it is very unlikely you will be released from your freeze early. I believe there was a supplementary bid last year due to a shortage of applicants for Gatwick commands and some pilots were released from long haul freezes early. However this is most certainly the exception rather than the rule, and was in part due to the increased flying, which arose from the purchase of Monarch slots. It is unlikely to happen again.

As far as failing a command after returning from long haul. BA are pretty brutal nowadays and my understanding is that you would remain in short haul in the rhs, with the possibility that you could try again when you are no longer cat c (2yrs).

Recruitment is expected to number anything upto 400 next year, however BA recruited huge numbers in 2014/15 and many of these will be unfrozen and will take the majority of the long haul positions. This has not been the case in previous years as recruitment was quieter between 2012-14. My guess is that DEP short haul is more likely going forward.
SkyRocket10 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 14:32
  #6624 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by SkyRocket10 View Post
You are engagement frozen for five training years when you start at BA, however this can be reduced to four years for a first command. Unless you are short haul it is very unlikely you will be released from your freeze early. I believe there was a supplementary bid last year due to a shortage of applicants for Gatwick commands and some pilots were released from long haul freezes early. However this is most certainly the exception rather than the rule, and was in part due to the increased flying, which arose from the purchase of Monarch slots. It is unlikely to happen again.

As far as failing a command after returning from long haul. BA are pretty brutal nowadays and my understanding is that you would remain in short haul in the rhs, with the possibility that you could try again when you are no longer cat c (2yrs).

Recruitment is expected to number anything upto 400 next year, however BA recruited huge numbers in 2014/15 and many of these will be unfrozen and will take the majority of the long haul positions. This has not been the case in previous years as recruitment was quieter between 2012-14. My guess is that DEP short haul is more likely going forward.
Many thanks for the quick and thorough reply. Certainly food for thought!

In this instance if you were to be offered SH FO is a relatively quick (crack at a) LGW command still realistic under current conditions? And being junior does the new rostering system allow the ability to live in the North or are you pretty much tied to the S.E?

Again, many thanks.
FRYVA is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 19:54
  #6625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 58
Any news on offers / start dates?
HEJT2015 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2019, 20:14
  #6626 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by FRYVA View Post
Many thanks for the quick and thorough reply. Certainly food for thought!

In this instance if you were to be offered SH FO is a relatively quick (crack at a) LGW command still realistic under current conditions? And being junior does the new rostering system allow the ability to live in the North or are you pretty much tied to the S.E?

Again, many thanks.
I think it very unlikely Gatwick commands will go as junior as they have been in the last two years. BA failed to obtain the TC slots and there is very little appetite for any further short haul expansion. With Heathrow commands still up at sub 2800 seniority (approx 10yrs), I would anticipate Gatwick commands returning to around mid 3500 (4-5yrs). This appears to agree with rumours coming out of P&P too.

It is very difficult to commute from Gatwick in the summer with minimum 11 days off. It is
more achievable from Heathrow, but it would seem anyone below about 60% seniority is getting very little control of their initial rosters under JSS and rely heavily on swaps. Perhaps someone who has joined in the last 2 years could confirm better.
SkyRocket10 is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2019, 11:59
  #6627 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Onboard
Posts: 21
An Engagement Freeze is ‘active’ until completion of 5 years of service. However in practice, a 5 year freeze means a bid will not be considered for 4 complete training years. (MoA refers) The training year runs from 1 Jan to 31 Dec. Also bear in mind that if your initial posting is A320 at LGW, any freeze would not prevent you moving from LGW to LHR on the A320 should you wish. It’s a type freeze, not a base freeze.
Toolonginthisjob is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2019, 14:12
  #6628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 785
The freeze situation is a bit anomalous. If you joined on the Airbus in the last 3 years and met the command requirements, you could achieve an LGW command (most junior is c4000 on the MSL). As discussed above, this year due to the Monarch slots there were a large number of LGW commands which led to anyone who bid for one in the main bid getting one, including LH DEPs within their engagement freezes, plus a supplementary bid for Airbus rated pilots. The rule set and pay scales aren’t designed for people getting commands within 5 years of joining mainline as it’s historically not happened. Junior LGW Captains are about the lowest paid A320 skippers in the UK.

I agree with posters above it’s unlikely to happen again, and BA can do what they like with you within the ruleset under the engagement freeze. One of the reasons LGW is so junior is that you realistically have to live within 30-40 min drive of Gatwick due to the fact it’s mainly day trips and fairly random rosters.
Jwscud is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2019, 16:01
  #6629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
... which led to anyone who bid for one in the main bid getting one, including LH DEPs within their engagement freezes, plus a supplementary bid for Airbus rated pilots.
That's worth emphasising... - the company can and occasionally do choose to ignore freezes when it suits them for manpower purposes, but it's not the norm and anyone joining BA or planning on joining BA should assume they will serve in full any appropriate seat/type freeze.
wiggy is online now  
Old 18th Nov 2019, 16:20
  #6630 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Above
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by HEJT2015 View Post
Any news on offers / start dates?
I've heard nothing for a couple of months now.
Percula is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2019, 08:43
  #6631 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 715
Originally Posted by SkyRocket10 View Post
..however BA recruited huge numbers in 2014/15 and many of these will be unfrozen and will take the majority of the long haul positions. This has not been the case in previous years as recruitment was quieter between 2012-14. My guess is that DEP short haul is more likely going forward.
Not just many, everybody recruited in 2015 are now unfrozen provided they haven’t taken their command in the meantime. You’ve got the 2016 lot (300+) with valid bids next year too. However, I doubt the veracity of a blanket “most will be going DEP SH” statement. BA will just probably pull out their training capacity joker and shaft all the unfrozen SH P2s in favour of LH DEP once again.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 09:39
  #6632 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: dubai
Posts: 6
Update

Originally Posted by Percula View Post
I've heard nothing for a couple of months now.
New email received yesterday, still trying to figure out what the manpower demand is for 2020. Once they have the go ahead and a budget they’ll start, until then I guess we’ll keep swimming!

Does anyone have any more info for example; if the training train will leave the station in Q1 2020 still? or has that ship sailed?
Morris Ogg is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 16:40
  #6633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Waiting...

Hold Pool update... What do we make out of it?
Nothing before Christmas or 2020 itself?
Safety_ is offline  
Old 22nd Nov 2019, 19:14
  #6634 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: South East
Posts: 3
Hi Ladies and Gents

I was wondering if anyone has heard any recent positive news in the hold pool or are having a similar experience?

Ive been in the pool since the start of March. During my assessment I was told if successful to expect a call very soon as the pool was very low. After a couple of months without hearing anything I contacted them as they said no training was scheduled till the end of summer. Towards the end of July I got a call to expect a start date in Q1 2020 and I would receive that date in September, possibly into October. It’s now end of November and still no date and to be honest the recent emails from them have start to make me wonder whether it will happen at all.

I appreciate all this is subject to change when your in the hold pool, and I’ve heard people were waiting 24 months plus in the pool a couple of years ago. I just feel on the basis of what I have been told from the start it all feels a bit disconcerting. Just wondering if anyone is going through the same?
Biggles88 is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2019, 07:31
  #6635 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here and there
Age: 45
Posts: 369
Anyone moved from an Orange airline to BA on short haul recently could give me an insight please.
feel free to DM

could anyone please send me some examples of their short haul rosters or how they feel lifestyle and working patterns are.

thanks



Last edited by Serenity; 23rd Nov 2019 at 08:04.
Serenity is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2019, 10:48
  #6636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
Anyone moved from an Orange airline to BA on short haul recently could give me an insight please.
feel free to DM

could anyone please send me some examples of their short haul rosters or how they feel lifestyle and working patterns are.

thanks


There’s a lot of info on Shorthaul rosters posted throughout this thread if you search for it.

LGW & LHR are quite different. LGW is seasonal so very busy in summer, very quiet in the winter months. I’ve averaged about 650-700 hours a year at LGW since I joined. Mainly day trips. Seniority increases pretty quickly (assuming recruitment continues).

LHR is the better option for commuting due to the amount of tours. Work is spread more evenly throughout the year. Don’t underestimate the hassle of operating there day in day out.

About 50% of the FO’s I fly with are ex orange. The majority seem happy with the decision but they unanimously agree it’s not the holy grail they’d hoped for/expected.
JulietSierra6 is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2019, 05:52
  #6637 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 22
Movement yesterday and the day before for people going onto 320 and 350. Possibly other fleets too but I've not heard.
Heisenb3rg is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2019, 08:53
  #6638 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Heisenb3rg View Post
Movement yesterday and the day before for people going onto 320 and 350. Possibly other fleets too but I've not heard.
This sounds promising as I’m waiting for a SH start date. Though last week I received an email saying manpower plan not yet sorted so unable to offer start dates for 2020 at the moment...Anybody else know of any movement?
boeing89 is online now  
Old 24th Nov 2019, 09:14
  #6639 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oxford UK
Age: 40
Posts: 106
Friend of mine got the call yesterday for LHR SH. He is already A320 typed. 3 months in the pool.
capt.sparrow is offline  
Old 24th Nov 2019, 09:29
  #6640 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by capt.sparrow View Post
Friend of mine got the call yesterday for LHR SH. He is already A320 typed. 3 months in the pool.
Thats interesting. Guy at our outfit has been in pool since April.
AIMINGHIGH123 is online now  

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