BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
From: UK
I am on the 747 and love flying manually, but whilst I tend to fly until about FL150 on departure, it is incredibly rare that I fly a manual approach as P2. This is not due to SOPs, but because we are generally just too knackered by the end of the flight. There is not so much enjoyment to be found in anything when you are desperately wishing you were in your bed. I and many others used to fly manual approaches, back before EASA FTLs and final assign, but in my experience it is very rare nowadays. Who knows, perhaps JSS will end up leaving us less tired again, and we will be able to return to the days of manual approaches?
Last edited by Mr Angry from Purley; 6th January 2019 at 15:11. Reason: added more
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
I mean trip two days off followed by trip two days off, and repeat with FA should you try and create a block of days off so you can recover. If you were given such a string of work in the past, you could at least swap a trip to a back to back, giving you 4 days off afterwards for decent recovery (not ideal, but considerably less fatiguing than 2 days off continuously).
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 156
Likes: 42
From: UK
Joined: Feb 2013
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 154
Likes: 7
From: London
You're a pilot. Just because we don't spend our days wrestling with the controls in the same way as we might have in the past doesn't mean the job hasn't evolved and developed new challenges. For starters, 900 hrs/year is now a target not a limit. Fatigue is a real concern these days. Automation has changed the industry. Most jobs are evolving all the time at the end of the day.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
Just curious, flew there for 8yr, now 15 yr in the US. Back then I felt everyone in the US was working much harder, and often for less pay. Has that totally changed around? I honestly don' think I have to work too hard, and I have a lot of flexibility, can drop down to zero or pick up to the legal limit. Normal schedule for me is 3 4-day and a 3-day. TAFB 250 hours, block 65/70 hours, credit 70/75 hours. Add some other pay stuff so total around $200K/yr before tax, excluding company pension contribution, and I am a 6yr captain at the bottom paying loco. It sounds like everyone there is sick of the job....
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: The Netherlands
Hi Phantom, I am aware of that. Doesn’t mean though that I will accept the job offer if it’s shorthaul. Hence my curiosity to net pay on LH :-) Unfortunately no news yet.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
Hi Venco,
As a fellow Dutch guy my advice would be to say no to SH and yes to LH. Unless you're at a very bad place at the moment, only then I would say yes to SH.
To answer your question:
Basic pay year 1: £58.847
Allowances: Just under £20.000 (standing by to be corrected).
Net is hard to say. Depends on your tax situation in the UK/Netherlands.
As a fellow Dutch guy my advice would be to say no to SH and yes to LH. Unless you're at a very bad place at the moment, only then I would say yes to SH.
To answer your question:
Basic pay year 1: £58.847
Allowances: Just under £20.000 (standing by to be corrected).
Net is hard to say. Depends on your tax situation in the UK/Netherlands.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
From: UK
I mean trip two days off followed by trip two days off, and repeat with FA should you try and create a block of days off so you can recover. If you were given such a string of work in the past, you could at least swap a trip to a back to back, giving you 4 days off afterwards for decent recovery (not ideal, but considerably less fatiguing than 2 days off continuously).
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
Looking at the 777/787 DEP recruitment, Is there any reason why BA don’t offer a LGW base on the 777? I believe there will be 14 aircraft based at Gatwick this Summer, so it’s a sizeable operation.
Given the destinations, some longer trips and the fact it’s not LHR, this would certainly be an attractive prospect in an airline that, by most accounts on this thread, is quickly running out of attractive prospects.
Given the destinations, some longer trips and the fact it’s not LHR, this would certainly be an attractive prospect in an airline that, by most accounts on this thread, is quickly running out of attractive prospects.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Looking at the 777/787 DEP recruitment, Is there any reason why BA don’t offer a LGW base on the 777? I believe there will be 14 aircraft based at Gatwick this Summer, so it’s a sizeable operation.
Given the destinations, some longer trips and the fact it’s not LHR, this would certainly be an attractive prospect in an airline that, by most accounts on this thread, is quickly running out of attractive prospects.
Given the destinations, some longer trips and the fact it’s not LHR, this would certainly be an attractive prospect in an airline that, by most accounts on this thread, is quickly running out of attractive prospects.
Unless you are going to crew it with pilots on reduced T&Cs I don’t really see what’s in it for the company...it’s not as if Flight Ops has problems getting people to volunteer to do the work.
There are plenty on the 777 fleet who bid specifically for the LGW work and by a combination of both bidding and swopping trips are in reality pretty much Gatwick based.
Last edited by wiggy; 13th January 2019 at 08:01.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Trip lengths..anything from the odd/rare one day outliers, most trips are 3,4 or 5 day, max at the moment is the SYD trip (currently on the 777 ) which touches 9 days (departs evening of day one, gets back into LHR AM of day 9).
Time off between generally a minimum of two clear days, though in certain circumstances with certain trips it may be possible to opt to reduce time at base to a local night..OTOH the aforementioned Sydney trip demands 4 days/5 local nights off at base due to FTL constraints.
In very simplistic terms in a month with no leave embedded you possibly end up with 5 or 6 of the short (e.g. 2 or three day) trips, or say 3 or 4 of the longer trips.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 659
Likes: 10
From: The EU
Unless you are going to crew it with pilots on reduced T&Cs I don’t really see what’s in it for the company...it’s not as if Flight Ops has problems getting people to volunteer to do the work.
There are plenty on the 777 fleet who bid specifically for the LGW work and by a combination of both bidding and swopping trips are in reality pretty much Gatwick based.
I assume with EASA FTLs, the positioning from LHR to LGW needs to be shown. So an immediate benefit to the company is a reduction in duty hours spent (not) on the M25. I don't know exactly what arrangements BA have for pilots operating from LGW (HOTAC, taxis if required?) to comment further. What's the current benefit to the company of having all 777 drivers based in LHR?
For me personally, and I know I'm not alone, it's the difference between applying and not. One less CV to throw in the bin I suppose.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
I assume with EASA FTLs, the positioning from LHR to LGW needs to be shown. So an immediate benefit to the company is a reduction in duty hours spent (not) on the M25. I don't know exactly what arrangements BA have for pilots operating from LGW (HOTAC, taxis if required?) to comment further. What's the current benefit to the company of having all 777 drivers based in LHR?
For me personally, and I know I'm not alone, it's the difference between applying and not. One less CV to throw in the bin I suppose.
For me personally, and I know I'm not alone, it's the difference between applying and not. One less CV to throw in the bin I suppose.
2. Yes there is an agreement for a hotel room (but no allowances) if the individual requests it, but again because many of the “locals” elect to bid for the LGW work I’m not how many actually take the option.
I’m not sure why there not being a Gatwick stand-alone 777 base is a deal breaker for you....there is nothing to stop you applying to BA and seeing if you can get an offer of the T7...if that worked out then you’d be in a position to bid for the Gatwick work, as long as it continues.
Last edited by wiggy; 13th January 2019 at 16:19.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
I assume with EASA FTLs, the positioning from LHR to LGW needs to be shown. So an immediate benefit to the company is a reduction in duty hours spent (not) on the M25. I don't know exactly what arrangements BA have for pilots operating from LGW (HOTAC, taxis if required?) to comment further. What's the current benefit to the company of having all 777 drivers based in LHR?
For me personally, and I know I'm not alone, it's the difference between applying and not. One less CV to throw in the bin I suppose.
For me personally, and I know I'm not alone, it's the difference between applying and not. One less CV to throw in the bin I suppose.
