Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 1st Jan 2019, 08:05
  #5621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 86
The pay isn’t the reason to get into BA , I honestly think the main reason people want to get into this weird outfit is to “fly the flag” , “to fly to serve” . Just awful
Riskybis is online now  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 08:30
  #5622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,572
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post
The pay isn’t the reason to get into BA , I honestly think the main reason people want to get into this weird outfit is to “fly the flag” , “to fly to serve” . Just awful


If you think that is the “main” reason, or has even been on the radar of any of us had for joining BA in recent years or even 20 or 30 years ago I think you are to put it very politely very very badly mistaken. If you have gathered that opinion whilst working in BA I can only think have been keeping very strange company and I won’t ask what fleet you are on.

I’ve been in BA just a few decades and In all honesty I have never ever heard any crew (pilots or cabin crew) parroting those old and somewhat dated advertising slogans as their reason for joining....at all..ever.
.
More likely reasons for joining I have heard from my pilot colleagues are things like being based in the south east U.K, being able to fly the likes of the 747, 777, 787, even the 380....In days of old people joined in part because it was a company with a decent pension scheme, and a “world leading rostering system” (stop laughing at the back) and the Aspirational bid system was and is a plus because it still allows people to dabble in Shorthaul, move to Longhaul, see the world..etc.

Just my MHO though (oh, I do agree with your comment about pay)






wiggy is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 08:51
  #5623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post
The pay isn’t the reason to get into BA , I honestly think the main reason people want to get into this weird outfit is to “fly the flag” , “to fly to serve” . Just awful
I've just heard I've been successful in my Sim Assessment and have a start date in the Spring. I'm coming to BA from the military and of all of my friends and colleagues who have also got in, not one has stated the reasons you cite for joining. Whilst the pay isn't stellar, it's not bad and is comparable to what we get now. For us, BA represents job security, excellent training, incremental pay (as many of us have topped out in the RAF), the ability to fly LH and get a 777,787 etc type rating, the ability to settle in one location and finally travel to destinations that don't require you to live in a tent and get shot at on a regular basis.

Whilst I concede that BA isn't going to perfect (show me a job that is), it'll do for me and I'm very happy to have made the grade. In the unlikely event that I don't like it, I'll move to somewhere else (and give 3 months notice, not 12).
skaterboi is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 09:06
  #5624 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,572
Skaterboi...Firstly congratulations...

Originally Posted by skaterboi View Post
... and finally travel to destinations that don't require you to.....get shot at on a regular basis.
Well...there is the return to ISB on the 787......... ..., that aside you will find there are some “interesting destinations” with security issues at ground level, plus silly stuff like the odd scud thrown in the very general direction of RUH from time to time and at least one other occasionally “hot” ME destination where one has been known to have to take cover...but I do take your point
wiggy is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 09:16
  #5625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,096
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Skaterboi...Firstly congratulations...

Well...there is the return to ISB on the 787......... ..., that aside you will find there are some “interesting destinations” with security issues at ground level, plus silly stuff like the odd scud thrown in the very general direction of RUH from time to time and at least one other occasionally “hot” ME destination where one has been known to have to take cover...but I do take your point
Need to increase Cap to these destinations then and make them more enticing for some of those enjoying the golf too often down in Jo Berg!
VinRouge is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 09:51
  #5626 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post
The pay isn’t the reason to get into BA , I honestly think the main reason people want to get into this weird outfit is to “fly the flag” , “to fly to serve” . Just awful
Really - Trust me there are many/some on the SH fleet........particularly two stripers......
red9 is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 10:05
  #5627 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,572
Oh well...I stand corrected .. I’ve never witnessed that myself ....are you actually literally hearing people saying e.g. they joined “ to fly the flag” or similar... ??? I’ve never even heard the real real youngsters on the other side of the flight deck door -Mixed Fleet, regurgitate that sort of nonsense..

Maybe too much recruiting/exposure to some of our social media hero’s is causing this....I suggest we should make sure we continue to recruit more cynical/grounded old f******* The Forces used to have a few...







Last edited by wiggy; 1st Jan 2019 at 10:16.
wiggy is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 11:08
  #5628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 606
I do not think there are especially many who joined purely because they wanted to fly the flag. There are plenty who assumed the ‘national flag carrier’ would have superior terms and conditions though.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 15:55
  #5629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Going East
Posts: 15
What will happen to crews as the 747 is withdrawn? Could someone join on the fleet and then be directed to any fleet without any consultation? I understand that during your fleet freeze you can be directed to any fleet but obviously this is more relevant on the 747.
pilotpete123 is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 16:30
  #5630 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,079
Correct. You can get directed anywhere where BA wants. So you could in theory get booted off the 747 as the fleet reduces in size. That might be to SH. The 350 is going to replace the 747 on an hull for hull basis.

However, there might be enough guys bidding off the 747 to fill their requirements leaving you protected. I guess it’s a last resort thing. Some new guys were directed off the 380 a couple of years ago. If they have an oversupply of pilots on a fleet, they normally run a supplementary bid and people can put in their preference as to where they’d like to go. Happened on the 318 when they reduced the fleet to 1 aircraft a while back.
no sponsor is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 16:32
  #5631 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 606
That could potentially happen Pete, but I personally doubt the 747 will run down in anything like the currently planned timescale.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 16:50
  #5632 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Going East
Posts: 15
Thanks for that insight. Currently watching a fleet being retired at my current airline and the associated drama that brings. I can also relate to how a planned timescale means very little. Now oil has tanked again I can imagine they may well be around a little longer...
pilotpete123 is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 18:04
  #5633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Room 506
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by pilotpete123 View Post
Thanks for that insight. Currently watching a fleet being retired at my current airline and the associated drama that brings. I can also relate to how a planned timescale means very little. Now oil has tanked again I can imagine they may well be around a little longer...
In probably my only positive post re BA so far, I have a few mates on the 767 who are obviously in the fleet retirement predicament at the moment. Obviously BA can do what they want during the first 5 years, but they are being released to their fleet of choice (777 & 747) after 3 years or less in BA, and are over the moon.

Also based on nothing but my humble opinion, if you joined in 2019, I don't foresee see you being directed off the jumbo due to fleet retirement during the initial engagement freeze. They are cash cows for BA at the moment with oil at $55 pb.
Tricia Takanawa is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2019, 18:51
  #5634 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by pilotpete123 View Post
What will happen to crews as the 747 is withdrawn? Could someone join on the fleet and then be directed to any fleet without any consultation? I understand that during your fleet freeze you can be directed to any fleet but obviously this is more relevant on the 747.
I joined onto the 767 as a rated DEP. As you may know, the 767 fleet has recently been retired so I (and others) faced a bit of an uncertain future when we entered official run down. During your initial 5 year engagement freeze the company can pretty much do what they like with you so we did have fears that we would be directed somewhere we didn't want to go, in our case that was SH Airbus. And tbh there's nothing we could have done about it (except bid off as unfrozen ASAP). Thankfully we were all given the opportunity to submit an aspirational bid in the usual way and were then processed accordingly.

Within reason we all got what we asked for or very close to it. The junior guys including me have largely ended up on the 777 and are very happy chappies after what has been a pretty awful couple of years for those at the bottom. Having done it once, I would avoid a dying fleet as far as humanly possible but I'm sure others will back me up when I say just get in, get your number and bide your time. The jumbo is the next to go but its a while off yet and it won't endure the same short haul pain the 767 did in its final 2 1/2 years.

Happy New Year all!

Last edited by 2 Whites 2 Reds; 2nd Jan 2019 at 08:52.
2 Whites 2 Reds is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 00:09
  #5635 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post


I sadly didn’t get to the SIM have to wait a year to reapply. I have however changed my opinion of BA. I assumed the ‘national flag carrier’ had superior terms and conditions and had the thought of how amazing it would be to fly for BA. I do feel a bit naive now. I put a lot of work into prepping for BA but actually didn’t research T&Cs what’s it actually like etc. I now know people who have jumped to BA, I’m talking people I’ve worked with trained with, and the picture they paint is not what I had in my head. I was disappointed to not get to the SIM but I’m actually more disappointed in what I have learnt about BA. I was looking at it as that would be my forever airline but I feel the first 5 years at least would be so challenging, having a very young family, wife who wants to quit her job to be with family, would test us to the max. SH trips away seem inevitable and having seen rosters guys have sent me I feel EZY would be a better choice, command is quicker and pays more. LH doesn’t look as bad, you get few more days off but may have to wait 5 years to get LH and 15 years to command!!! Im mid thirties now at least 50 before command. I don’t plan on working in to my 60s. It took a heart attack for my dad(68) to stop work. Pay that’s not very good compared to how much money BA makes!!! Wife has to keep working so we can afford our bills/plan on early retirement.

I spent most of 2018 waiting for BA to open up recruitment and waiting for slots to stages 1 and 2 as that’s what I wanted I didn’t focus on much else apart from EK.
Maybe it’s because it’s 2019, 2018 went by so quickly, I need to be more proactive.
Happy New Year.
you won’t get a LH command at BA in 15years. Currently it’s sitting at around 19/20 years
3Greens is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 07:15
  #5636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 770
Originally Posted by 3Greens View Post

you won’t get a LH command at BA in 15years. Currently it’s sitting at around 19/20 years
I think he means fifteen years after the initial 5 year wait to get long haul.
RexBanner is online now  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 08:02
  #5637 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,096
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post

I think he means fifteen years after the initial 5 year wait to get long haul.
​​​​​​For many experienced pilots with a decade plus large aircraft command (particularly military), the decent FO pay scale and seniority system means that many consider a move straight to BA a release from ever having to bother with command again. Why would you want to go junior LH command again at 58? I'm considering a move to SH (potentialo command) after 10-15years once we are living closer to LHR. But then again, why bother?

​​​​With a small mil pension included, a move to RHS salary after a decade of military command with allowances is around a 17-20k pay rise. I sh#t you not. This is what you move across on.
VinRouge is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 17:59
  #5638 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,636
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post
The pay isn’t the reason to get into BA , I honestly think the main reason people want to get into this weird outfit is to “fly the flag” , “to fly to serve” . Just awful
Wouldn't be surprised at all don't forget a lot of wannabie Nigels are fresh out of Flight School when they join BA.
At my last gaff there were 2 Low Hour FO's who told me on day 1 they were going to be at Gaff Airways for the rest of their life - Guess where they are now after 3 years....
Mr Angry from Purley is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 20:48
  #5639 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
​​​​​​For many experienced pilots with a decade plus large aircraft command (particularly military), the decent FO pay scale and seniority system means that many consider a move straight to BA a release from ever having to bother with command again. Why would you want to go junior LH command again at 58? I'm considering a move to SH (potentialo command) after 10-15years once we are living closer to LHR. But then again, why bother?

​​​​With a small mil pension included, a move to RHS salary after a decade of military command with allowances is around a 17-20k pay rise. I sh#t you not. This is what you move across on.
To counter the negatives re BA joiners, agree completely with VR. I relative of mine joined from the RAF DEP to BA LH.
Lifestyle and pay superior to previous, even after a wide body Command at 28 in RAF. The long wait for LH BA Capt not a problem and still able to live in the shires, only driving to the airport 4/5 times a month. On a small happy fleet and no chance of being shot at. The golf, even as junior on the fleet, good in JNB!!
The inital pay and Command prospects may be better in ie Ezy but they have no wish to do a life time (No change with a Command except pay) of multiple sectors daily out of Gwk/ Ltn, no night stops, and have to live close to an airport.
Of course that is available in BA SH where Command is available much sooner.
“Horses for courses!!”
Although it surprises me that BALPA has seemingly trashed the LH aspirations of many SH copilots by allowing out of Seniority movement direct to LH.

Last edited by cessnapete; 2nd Jan 2019 at 22:16.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2019, 22:08
  #5640 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 168
SH and LH in either seat, whatever fleet you're on, it's a lot better if you relax and come to work with a smile on your face. The flying's better SH, the lifestyle better LH. More pressure in the LHS than the RHS.

Whatever, there's no better view out of the office window whichever company you work for, even if you're shagged out.
blimey is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.