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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 8th Feb 2018, 07:55
  #4441 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 569
Many of our LH senior copilots, simply can’t stomach the idea of a SH command. They’d prefer a smaller pension, or at the very least, pushing it to the last possible opportunity.
I’m not sure ‘can’t stomach’ is the right phrase. We have simply for whatever reason, favoured the long haul lifestyle just like many have before us. It doesn’t have much to do with being senior, other than that you generally need a bit of seniority to get a move to long haul if you’re not fortunate enough to be recruited directly onto a long haul fleet. Suggesting long haul is too comfy is just incorrect. Some long haul fleets have it easier than others it is true, but to make the blanket statement that long haul is comfy in BA is wrong. Most on my fleet believe part time is the only way they’ll be able to stave off fatigue in the long term.

The top of the seniority long haul SFOs will unlikely now start bidding for short haul commands, because that would freeze them off a long haul command for five years and that’s where they really want to be. The more junior NAPS SFOs will probably just bid for short haul commands immediately (if they value their pensions over their current lifestyles - although I suspect many won’t, because they don’t totally believe they’ll ever receive the pension). It is the middle ground who will probably wait a year or so before starting to bid for short haul commands, just to see how things are looking and whether they might just squeak a long haul command in time. They are the one ones who are taking a little bit of a gamble and may end up losing out if there is a bit of a downturn in command availability.

However overall, I think all of the above means there will probably be very limited availability of new LHR commands to any BARP seniority pilots for the next five years (after 2018). There will also be several (although not all) pp16 capped LGW Captains bidding for LHR too. I suspect the only short haul command availability to BARP seniority pilots will be at LGW.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 07:59
  #4442 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 94
There are definitely some downsides of taking a shortfall command early on (even if it is available to you). I'm talking about those who achieve their command within the first 2/3 years in BA, which is historically unlikely anyway.

1. Zero or close to zero roster control (indefinitely)
2. Frequent reserve periods
3. One of the lowest command salaries in the UK for an A320 command.
4. Potentially years of stagnation as senior pilots transfer across ahead of you

If an A320 command is your thing and you're not interested in long haul it makes zero sense to leave somewhere like easyJet IMO.

If you join as an FO anytime soon you have a decent chance of achieving some lifestyle control pretty quickly based on the latest estimates for recruitment. What you then do is up to you.

As was said to me when I joined, you only HAVE to be junior once.
Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 09:00
  #4443 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by VJW View Post
4468 - Have you been a Captain at Easy/Jet2/Ryan and BA? Seeing as though it has been mentioned on here that it takes about 13 years inside BA to get the SH command salary close to that of the three LoCo’s you mention, please tell me what the lifestyle is like at BA as a junior Captain that makes it worth it. Bearing in mind two of those LoCo’s have a package worth in excess of £120k a year before bonuses with a fixed roster pattern and home each night - ideal for a having a life outside of work.
Unless you have a burning desire to fly long haul then there is absolutely no reason to join BA at all. Unless you like never ending conversations about pensions and JSS. Oh and of course the company has really “strong” union recognition hahaha!! Trust me if your close to LoCo command stick with it, most normal people go to work to earn money and BA is simply not the place to do that anymore all the rest is smoke and mirrors designed to convince us how lucky we are to work at T5s favourite airline.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 10:26
  #4444 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 10
I completely disagree with that! I felt like I was a financial inconvenience to the management at my previous LoCo. I had to flight for everything while there, I couldn’t face another couple of years working there, let alone another 35! Albeit I got a Longhaul position here, I would have taken SH, the majority of my friends did and are very happy. My work life is no longer stressful and therefore my home life has become stress free. I think the majority of this has to do with the attitude and culture at BA, where pilots are still treated like professionals, left to get on with the job!
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 10:59
  #4445 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 87
Some interesting points here.
Before I got into the industry I always looked at BA as my career goal, long haul captain with a decent salary.
Now I’m mid thirties with a family BA doesn’t look like the right choice.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 15:15
  #4446 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 706
Its been done to death, on this thread and others. there are pros and cons a plenty.

From my perspective, if you are in your 20s/early 30s and single(ish) then BA is still as good a gig as any. The main reason being you can bid to move around between SH and LH every 5 years. I find that kind of career choice liberating and it helps stoke up enthusiasm for the job.

Realistically, most join and do around 5 years A320 and then move to a LH fleet, then take stock after 5-10 years about a SH command. Many stay LH as the lifestyle is to their liking. Very few actually do a new Type Rating every 5 years/jump around between SH/LH but it is possible if you really love Groundschool.

Joining straight onto LH is a nice move for already experienced guys but you will sit at the bottom of a very long list with hardly any appreciable movement for quite some time.

If you want big money early then forget it. My mates at Locos are all far better off than I am. That said you can be at £100k p.a within 7-8 years as a LH F/O - with overtime and bonus.

Glad to hear the patient swimmers are being rewarded. A350 joins the fold in 2019 for anyone who fancies it.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 16:00
  #4447 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 39
Any more offers made to those who had their sims mid to late oct 2016?
Retrojet is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 16:33
  #4448 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 87

For me your post answers a lot of questions.
I do want big money now. 100k plus within a couple of years would allow me more flexibility with my property/other investments before my little one is going to school. School fees aren’t cheap!
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 17:19
  #4449 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rome
Posts: 43
Retrojet, rated or non rated? My sim partner was called few days ago for SH position and we did our check early october 16.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 17:27
  #4450 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 39
Either! Glad to hear about more offers going out...I know of some late SEPT/mid OCT a320 rated people getting SH offers....

just wondering if any mid to late OCT people had received offers yet...???
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 18:17
  #4451 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 167
The main reason being you can bid to move around between SH and LH every 5 years.
......at the moment.

And 25% joined in the last 5 years so it's a big bulge.

Jewel in the crown was bidline

Last edited by blimey; 8th Feb 2018 at 19:04.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 19:44
  #4452 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 706
Aiminghigh, yeah makes sense. I've got kids and a big mortgage too, and I wouldn't leave a loco command at the age I am now unless I absolutely had to fly LH. That said some people do just that and they make it work so your guess is as good as mine - its all extremely subjective!


......at the moment.
SHHHHHH! (I heard a year ago that AC and SG had a list of big ticket items they were pointing both barrels at, number 1 was pensions, guess what number 2 was.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 20:02
  #4453 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
And I’ve heard from others ITK that it’s not even remotely on the radar so depends which rumour you want to believe really. You can drive yourself mad if you worried about everything you heard on the rumour mill.

Not exactly a Nostradamus prediction to say they were looking to address the pension situation, especially as Steve Gunning had said it himself directly in his introductory video almost two years ago!

Last edited by RexBanner; 8th Feb 2018 at 20:14.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 20:46
  #4454 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 39
Just read on Airliners.net (Airbus Is in Talks With British Airways on More A380s - Page 7 - Airliners.net)

Someone said someone posted on yammer that a new A380 order is imminent, but since posting the post has been removed from yammer.....

Anyone on the inside have any more info?
Retrojet is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 21:03
  #4455 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,088
Well the most recent flight ops news said the A380 fleet is planning to remain at 12 aircraft for the foreseeable future..
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 21:34
  #4456 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 30W
Age: 100
Posts: 122
BA has delayed retirement of some of their 747s and expanded their fleet so that now they are 11 aircraft short for completing the replacement. If they want to further expand their fleet then that number would rise further.
Be nice to finally see a launch customer for the B777-10X stretch and the pilots to go with it.
Yorkshire_Pudding is online now  
Old 8th Feb 2018, 21:52
  #4457 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 706
Not exactly a Nostradamus prediction to say they were looking to address the pension situation
Not exactly wrong either was it.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2018, 15:45
  #4458 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 39
Any news this week?
Retrojet is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2018, 18:26
  #4459 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 206
My understanding from the conference call was that rather than let you know in advance, (“Hey TTR, we’re putting you on a course in October, that ok?”) they are waiting until 90 days before your expected start date to contact you.

In that instance, it may be a flurry of activity followed by periods of radio silence.
thetimesreader84 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2018, 22:42
  #4460 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 92
A few DEP long haul offers went out last week. I believe a mixture of rated and non rated.

Last edited by Boeing 77W; 13th Feb 2018 at 23:20.
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