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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 20th Jun 2019, 14:42
  #6401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
Posts: 256
Originally Posted by Officer Kite View Post
Who is the Sky God occupying #1 on the seniority list?
Nigel Something
Doug E Style is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2019, 17:59
  #6402 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Straight Outta Compton
Posts: 18
Are the new joiners on the 380 only Airbus rated?
There's probably the one exception that brakes the rule, but I'd say yes pretty much all direct entries on the A380 had an Airbus rating when they joined.
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Old 21st Jun 2019, 03:42
  #6403 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Norwich
Age: 56
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Threethirty View Post
Norfolkungood yes but it’s slightly different in Cathay as you’re flying with 4 crew, most BA flights are 3 crew.

True. Unfortunately seems all our lords and masters want to reduce manning/ rest to the minimum to increase the productivity. Our lot would jump at the chance of 3 man. They tried it but as most of our departures are around midnight the FTLs didn’t quite allow it. We now do a large proportion of our LHs with 2 Second Officers as opposed to a 2 FOs. So the FO just gets the wrong rest and still has to be in the seat for landing! Notwithstanding our experience levels have dropped through the floor.....

I fear for all of us where this is all leading.....
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 00:19
  #6404 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: south pole
Posts: 10
If the pay rise offer of 11% over three years were to go ahead would that apply to new joiners’ salaries too or only existing employees?

Do guys find they have much savings left over every month with the salary being as low as it is?

Being bottom of the seniority list is it not still possible to swap flights once the roster is out and get options in there that you like?

Thanks!
aaa333 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 05:48
  #6405 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by norfolkungood View Post



True. Unfortunately seems all our lords and masters want to reduce manning/ rest to the minimum to increase the productivity. Our lot would jump at the chance of 3 man. They tried it but as most of our departures are around midnight the FTLs didn’t quite allow it. We now do a large proportion of our LHs with 2 Second Officers as opposed to a 2 FOs. So the FO just gets the wrong rest and still has to be in the seat for landing! Notwithstanding our experience levels have dropped through the floor.....

I fear for all of us where this is all leading.....
Eventually the 2 Second Officers will get enough experience to be a FO.
The FO in the seat for the landing will (in theory) have a Captain in a better state of awake than himself.
What else?
Twiglet1 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 08:06
  #6406 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Originally Posted by aaa333 View Post
If the pay rise offer of 11% over three years were to go ahead would that apply to new joiners’ salaries too or only existing employees?
Do guys find they have much savings left over every month with the salary being as low as it is?

Being bottom of the seniority list is it not still possible to swap flights once the roster is out and get options in there that you like?

Thanks!


1. Payrise = change to the pay scales so everybody benefits.

2. Savings: Not a new joiner by any stretch of the imagination so can't help...and in any event guess that would depend on personal circumstances ...I'm sure somebody more helpful will be along in a minute.

3. Swopping: Certainly possible, FTLs allowing. Whether you are going to be able to get an option you like by getting rid an option you don't like will be down to "taste". Swopping mundane trips to generate days off you want (again FTLs allowing) but it might be a slightly tougher task trying to get rid of an unpopular destination/trip by expecting to be able swop it with something "tasty".

Last edited by wiggy; 29th Jun 2019 at 08:23.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 08:34
  #6407 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Twiglet1 View Post
Eventually the 2 Second Officers will get enough experience to be a FO.
The FO in the seat for the landing will (in theory) have a Captain in a better state of awake than himself.
What else?
I have done these 2 SO flights when I was an RQ FO at CX and its all very well having a nicely rested Captain but the FO is trying their hardest just to stay awake. Another cost cutting idea that infringes on the safety of the operation.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 08:50
  #6408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by CXKA View Post
I have done these 2 SO flights when I was an RQ FO at CX and its all very well having a nicely rested Captain but the FO is trying their hardest just to stay awake. Another cost cutting idea that infringes on the safety of the operation.
BA don’t do “SOs”. On joining all copilots are fully trained and qualified as RHS for two crew ops. As Wiggy says many LH trips on 777/787/744/ and a few on A380 are operated with two crew. For a new LH FO, people are recruited with sufficient big jet hours to allow them, after the Type Rating to operate on two pilot trips immediately after Line Training as FO.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 09:33
  #6409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UK
Age: 44
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by cessnapete View Post


BA don’t do “SOs”. On joining all copilots are fully trained and qualified as RHS for two crew ops. As Wiggy says many LH trips on 777/787/744/ and a few on A380 are operated with two crew. For a new LH FO, people are recruited with sufficient big jet hours to allow them, after the Type Rating to operate on two pilot trips immediately after Line Training as FO.
I was speaking about CX, as for BA we have all seen the various docunet updates that mention cruise only pilots as an interim measure before being fully qualified to the line on LH fleets.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 09:57
  #6410 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: south pole
Posts: 10
Thanks for the reply Wiggy

does anyone have a copy of the current PP payscale that new joiners sign on that they can paste here?

Thanks!
aaa333 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 10:22
  #6411 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: LHR
Posts: 110
I seem to remember a notice earlier this year detailing training requirements of "cruise pilots" on 777 & 747 for new entrants. They did this on the A380 previously.
Flap33 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 10:23
  #6412 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by CXKA View Post
I was speaking about CX, as for BA we have all seen the various docunet updates that mention cruise only pilots as an interim measure before being fully qualified to the line on LH fleets.
Correct, an interim measure in times of high recruitment when there is not enough Line Training capacity. BA do not have a Policy of employing semi permanent Cruise only, partially trained SOs.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 11:48
  #6413 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South of the North pole
Posts: 220
Is it true that if you join BA on the A320 based out of LGW you will come home every night with only possibly 1 or 2 lay overs a month?

As for LHR I heard you tend to do tours/trips for 3 or 4 days?

Im a 6000 hour pilot with 3000 plus jet hours so I do not know what kind of fleet they would offer me whether it be domestic or international.I have never flown wide body international but the thought of doing that kind of flying is not very appealing to me and from what I have been reading on junior new hires with JSS it just seems like a world of pain.

I ask because I am being interviewed by BA in 2 weeks time and if I get thru everything and get a job offer I would like to join on the A320 fleet but probably commute from Europe, most likely Spain where I would plan on living again.

So coming home every night would not work for me unless I paid for hotels which kind of defeats the purpose of commuting. I refuse to live in London with all that grime crime and slime as I have a wife and daughter and wont expose them to all that rubbish.

Any thoughts are most welcome.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 12:00
  #6414 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic View Post
Is it true that if you join BA on the A320 based out of LGW you will come home every night with only possibly 1 or 2 lay overs a month?

As for LHR I heard you tend to do tours/trips for 3 or 4 days?

Im a 6000 hour pilot with 3000 plus jet hours so I do not know what kind of fleet they would offer me whether it be domestic or international.I have never flown wide body international but the thought of doing that kind of flying is not very appealing to me and from what I have been reading on junior new hires with JSS it just seems like a world of pain.

I ask because I am being interviewed by BA in 2 weeks time and if I get thru everything and get a job offer I would like to join on the A320 fleet but probably commute from Europe, most likely Spain where I would plan on living again.

So coming home every night would not work for me unless I paid for hotels which kind of defeats the purpose of commuting. I refuse to live in London with all that grime crime and slime as I have a wife and daughter and wont expose them to all that rubbish.

Any thoughts are most welcome.
There are other places to live than London! LGW get very few layovers 2 a month if your lucky. LHR many more. Lots of guys commute from LHR, but to be honest looks like a nightmare to me.
Enzo999 is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2019, 12:01
  #6415 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 266
Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic View Post
Is it true that if you join BA on the A320 based out of LGW you will come home every night with only possibly 1 or 2 lay overs a month?

As for LHR I heard you tend to do tours/trips for 3 or 4 days?

Im a 6000 hour pilot with 3000 plus jet hours so I do not know what kind of fleet they would offer me whether it be domestic or international.I have never flown wide body international but the thought of doing that kind of flying is not very appealing to me and from what I have been reading on junior new hires with JSS it just seems like a world of pain.

I ask because I am being interviewed by BA in 2 weeks time and if I get thru everything and get a job offer I would like to join on the A320 fleet but probably commute from Europe, most likely Spain where I would plan on living again.

So coming home every night would not work for me unless I paid for hotels which kind of defeats the purpose of commuting. I refuse to live in London with all that grime crime and slime as I have a wife and daughter and wont expose them to all that rubbish.

Any thoughts are most welcome.

honest opinion? It sounds like you’d be better off applying for a Spanish base with EZY. With those hours you’d be looking at a command within 2 years, no commuting, and the money is better. (Admittedly the spanish eJ contract could be better when compared to other countries but if you were going to be spending money commuting then it’d even out).

As for BA, from what I’ve heard you’re more likely to be offered lgw than lhr if they want you on the 320 as less people want to go there, but you can always ask if lhr is available. Bare in mind that with low seniority you’d be doing more single nightstops from lhr as from what friends have said the senior lot like to take the tours.
Busdriver01 is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2019, 12:05
  #6416 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Room 506
Posts: 68
Only EDI GLA and JSY night stops from LGW. So you might as well join EZY for a fixed roster if you're going to LGW.

LHR does do tours, but being at the bottom of the list you wont have much say in whether you get them. Coupled in with at least 2 blocks of 3 weeks reserve a year, commuting to LHR for short haul would be tough on the home life too.

Long haul is best for commuting, but again, being at the bottom of the list isn't going to get you a great roster, don't forget to add the multiple blocks of reserve every year.

With that experience I would seriously try and look elsewhere. There are much better options now, that will pay more, give more days off and be a company that you are actually proud to say that you work for, with a much nicer day out when at work, rather than planning a mission to Mars every report.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 12:14
  #6417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
I’m Gatwick based (three years at Heathrow before) and rarely do a day trip in LGW unless it’s called from standby on reserve. However I am senior there and still have to do multiple nights in Gatwick (maybe 10 or so). As others have said not the best base for commuting unless, like me, you live in one of the few nightstop destinations and even then it’s a drag.

The workload gets high all year round too if all you’re doing is bidding for nightstops because, by their nature, they’re mostly six sector single nightstops over two days with long links either side. I was told Gatwick was seasonal and quiet in the winter but that doesn’t apply if you ask Carmen for nightstops. Flew 95 hours in January, my first month there, March was just as bad. A lot of nights in my own bed though!!

I wouldn’t necessarily say that LGW is more likely than LHR as I think we have nearly a full compliment in the RHS here, maybe a few less. According to iBid and looking at the historic compliment, however, it looks like LHR is under by nearly 30 pilots, possibly more. There’ll be many more unfrozen pilots leaving the Airbus from Heathrow next year than Gatwick too.

Gatwick is a far friendlier base and nicer place to work IMHO vs Heathrow, you actually get to know people here and the knob jockeys in the LHS are considerably fewer. The aircraft though are absolutely knackered and the number of MEL items you can be confronted with upon boarding the aircraft for the first time can be frustrating and downright exhausting.

More for anyone considering Gatwick vs Heathrow to be honest rather than the original poster..

Last edited by RexBanner; 3rd Jul 2019 at 14:09.
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Old 3rd Jul 2019, 13:21
  #6418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by Daddy Fantastic View Post

So coming home every night would not work for me unless I paid for hotels which kind of defeats the purpose of commuting. I refuse to live in London with all that grime crime and slime as I have a wife and daughter and wont expose them to all that rubbish.

Any thoughts are most welcome.
Grime, crime and slime?

Yeah if you believe all the media.

Loads of lovely areas stones throw to LHR. Twickenham, Teddington Richmond lovely areas not too expensive.

If you can afford it Chiswick, Kew are great. 15 mins to T5 or tube it in 30-40. No parking to worry about.

AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2019, 16:43
  #6419 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South of the North pole
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Enzo999 View Post


There are other places to live than London! LGW get very few layovers 2 a month if your lucky. LHR many more. Lots of guys commute from LHR, but to be honest looks like a nightmare to me.
Sure I realise that but was just stating my dislike for London and not wanting to live there. If I did live back in the UK where would you suggest that is very nice to live and commutable to LGW and possibly LHR?

Thanks for your help
Daddy Fantastic is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2019, 17:02
  #6420 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South of the North pole
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post

Grime, crime and slime?

Yeah if you believe all the media.

Loads of lovely areas stones throw to LHR. Twickenham, Teddington Richmond lovely areas not too expensive.

If you can afford it Chiswick, Kew are great. 15 mins to T5 or tube it in 30-40. No parking to worry about.

Thanks for the repliy, yeah there are nice places outside of London for sure like you mentioned. Maybe I seriously need to consider EZY as a few have mentioned.
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