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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 6th Dec 2018, 20:11
  #5441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 860
I truly hate this company (not the staff) to its very core. The people in charge have shown their true colours, they just embody corporate greed and the very worst of capitalism to its utmost degree. £1.5 Billion of profit? Nah thatís not enough, we need to squeeze the staff even more and reduce their terms and conditions so we can wring every last drop of profit out of it. So greedy and incredibly short sighted. I know this is going on everywhere but the contemptible people in charge of this outfit take it to the ultimate extreme.
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Old 6th Dec 2018, 21:26
  #5442 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
I truly hate this company (not the staff) to its very core. The people in charge have shown their true colours, they just embody corporate greed and the very worst of capitalism to its utmost degree. £1.5 Billion of profit? Nah thatís not enough, we need to squeeze the staff even more and reduce their terms and conditions so we can wring every last drop of profit out of it. So greedy and incredibly short sighted. I know this is going on everywhere but the contemptible people in charge of this outfit take it to the ultimate extreme.
Agreed, well said! Itís this level of grotesque corporate greed that will ultimately lead to a Corbyn led government.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 01:54
  #5443 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
I truly hate this company (not the staff) to its very core. The people in charge have shown their true colours, they just embody corporate greed and the very worst of capitalism to its utmost degree.
Being only several months in, I'm afraid I've reached the same conclusion. BA's obsession with cost is far more evident than in the LCC I worked for previously. It's really sad to see.

I can't help but wonder where the tipping point is in BA. SH have been pushed to the limit, now KG is after LH. At what point are we going to collectively say no? Will it ever happen - are we THAT divided? Wiil we bend over relentlessly to pay for KG's indoor swimming pool?

My previous airline had a well established, robust, non punitive fatigue system - AND they were working better rosters than BA. AND they were better paid. What the hell have I joined.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 05:45
  #5444 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Sadly, I now often wonder the same thing.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 05:59
  #5445 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,858
So to summarise rumours/hard news for this week:

The good news for many reading this is the company wants to recruit several hundred more DEPs in 2019 (though that’s apparently a lot more than “Finance” are keen on.).

There are some significant “howevers” that potential joiners need to be aware of when deciding whether BA continues to be a sensible/workable option:

1. The company are really going to go after what is left of Bidline rules, especially the trip construction/rest parameters, and are very keen on reducing time off.

2. BA are (according to “traffic” elsewhere last night) really trying to screw down on travelling to work pre-report...A notice on this with company approved timings to be issued shortly.

3. Oh yes, the pay claim....




Last edited by wiggy; 7th Dec 2018 at 06:30.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 06:18
  #5446 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,858
Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
I can't help but wonder where the tipping point is in BA. SH have been pushed to the limit, now KG is after LH. At what point are we going to collectively say no? Will it ever happen - are we THAT divided? Wiil we bend over relentlessly to pay for KG's indoor swimming pool?
.
Iím afraid one look at a certain forum will provide evidence that across the senority range we have colleagues who would rather eat their first born than actually vote to collectively say no.


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Old 7th Dec 2018, 10:24
  #5447 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 684
I reckognised many years ago that BALPA is impotent within BA. The only way BA will ever stop the decline which seems to have seriously snowballed over the last few years, is for the pilots to either unite and strike under the leadership of the union, or for people to leave the company in droves. Union and BALPA are two opposing concepts, so there will never be a strike. Once people start leaving in droves, and I believe that time is only a couple of years away, it will be too late for BA because they will have let things deteriorate so badly that they simply cannot stem the flow of pilots to other airlines.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 12:37
  #5448 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
I reckognised many years ago that BALPA is impotent within BA. The only way BA will ever stop the decline which seems to have seriously snowballed over the last few years, is for the pilots to either unite and strike under the leadership of the union, or for people to leave the company in droves. Union and BALPA are two opposing concepts, so there will never be a strike. Once people start leaving in droves, and I believe that time is only a couple of years away, it will be too late for BA because they will have let things deteriorate so badly that they simply cannot stem the flow of pilots to other airlines.
Just handed my notice in , no regrets at all , see ya later Mr Cruz 🖐🏻
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 12:38
  #5449 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 143
I have been flying for well over 10 years now. For nearly all of that a seat at BA was the dream. Then when it became a reality I chose to stay and move left at my LCC. I am so so glad i did. The corporate greed highlighted by Rex is destroying the brand from the inside.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 13:15
  #5450 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HonkyDong
Posts: 264
This thread has started to look like something that should be in the Fragrant Harbour forum!! 😄
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 13:15
  #5451 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 715
Once people start leaving in droves, and I believe that time is only a couple of years away, it will be too late for BA because they will have let things deteriorate so badly that they simply cannot stem the flow of pilots to other airlines.
Where are we all going then? Which other airline is so much better that we will be leaving ďin drovesĒ. Very few BA pilots want to work overseas. Very few BA pilots want a SH only existence. So where are we all off to?

There are few better options for a UK based pilot, unless you want to be an A320 Captain with ezy/TUI etc based in the regions. The LH pay and conditions are no better elsewhere. I can only see junior SH captains leaving.

BA know this full well. Despite the angry talk very few people leave. There isnít much else out there.

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Old 7th Dec 2018, 14:39
  #5452 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,858
For those "anchored" in the south east UK maybe, for those elsewhere I'm not so sure and I do think the company needs to be careful..

One or two some of the relatively new joiners I have flown with in the last year have already done homework and have made some interesting plans involving
work outside the UK..We've certainly ended up having conversations you would never have heard at BA even 5 year ago.

Maybe it'll end up like mixed fleet model - lots of churn...
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 15:17
  #5453 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post

1. The company are really going to go after what is left of Bidline rules, especially the trip construction/rest parameters, and are very keen on reducing time off.
For someone thinking of joining, what does this all mean? Specifically speaking.

Back to back trips, less days off between them? Trip construction?
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 15:31
  #5454 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
[QUOTE=pudoc;10330424]


For someone thinking of joining, what does this all mean? Specifically speaking.

Back to back trips, less days off between them? Trip construction?
[/QUOTE
Basically bringing shorthaul in line with the worst aspects of Easy/Ryanair and Longhaul with the likes of longhaul charter flying without the seasonal variation and so will be relentless without the pay. The company are monitoring sector swaps (long haul shortening of trips, so another can extend by a day or so) hence a 24 hour slip in LAX, NRT etc. Unfortunately he has seen individuals doing it without complaint. I've been in 14 years and my advice would be, consider very carefully work/life balance. The unions' effectiveness has been discussed on here previously.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 15:49
  #5455 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,858
Originally Posted by pudoc View Post


For someone thinking of joining, what does this all mean? Specifically speaking.

Back to back trips, less days off between them? Trip construction?


Just to be clear the changes are unspecified, and are on a very senior managers wish list...

The big change he has specifically mentioned is that he would like us to consider reducing LAX from (the industrially agreed) 48 hour slip to (EASA compliant) 24 hour slip. The manager thinks this could well be popular with the troops because it would give them more time at home, and saves the company money on HOTAC.

Suspicions are once a specific 48 hour slip is dropped to 24 hours then the precedent has been set and all 48 hour slips on the longhaul network would get the same treatment and reduced to 24 unless EASA forced otherwise.

IMHO that means:

1. The days of actually being on a Long haul pilot and being able to ďenjoyĒ a long range destination during a day free of duty might be curtailed/reduced, instead it will typically be: arrive, eat, drink (water only of course.....) sleep, a couple of hours sightseeing/shopping in the A.M. on day two, if you are up to it, then hotel, try to sleep again for an hour or two then it is call and back to work..and that will be almost everywhere. (I know..First world problem.)

2. Down the road without a doubt the company would then look at the time off at home generated by these reduced slips and try to squeeze extra work into the now larger gaps in rosters...it couldnít be a lot because most folks in Longhaul are 800 hours plus but I could imagine most people could end up picking up an extra handful of trips (TLV, day MADs, BOS etc) in the year...so you wouldnít end up spending more time at home....

3. Backs to backs...possible and happen now anyway, though pretty much only if you volunteer....




Last edited by wiggy; 7th Dec 2018 at 17:26. Reason: Spelling...thanks CJ...(darned iPad..)
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 16:07
  #5456 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 684
I agree Wiggy. BA will be aiming to employ the efficiencies of the mixed fleet model. They cannot give us short haul and long haul, but they can ensure we get a mixture low credit 3 day trips and high credit 3 day trips so we are all up at 900 hours, but not before the end of the year for some and unattainable for others (as currently happens).
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 16:40
  #5457 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 399
Wiggy just described verbatim what happened with us at Cathay years ago one of the many times they pulled the wool over our eyes.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 17:13
  #5458 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 860
Originally Posted by BitMoreRightRudder View Post
Very few BA pilots want a SH only existence.
If Klaus gets his wish and LH destinations become nightstops then Long Haul may as well be Short Haul. If you’re not getting to see and enjoy the destinations (and it’s going to be a really difficult ask as Wiggy has already alluded to with the time available) then what’s the point in being a Long Haul pilot? It may well be the tipping point for a great many people. If I’d have wanted to be worked to the bone, slipping 24 hours in Long Haul destinations I’d have joined Emirates. I know I’ll put in place an exit strategy to leave this place if it happens.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 21:08
  #5459 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 314
Bumped into a BALPA rep today. I hope I wasnít being fobbed off but KGís shopping list is being viewed as utter tosh apparently.

Lets see. KG is picking a very big fight with a huge portion of the workforce and with lots of very senior people all at the same time.

Frankly Iím not sure I can carry on with this lot if this gets through. As Iíve already said, I didnít sign up for this s***.

Time will tell.
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Old 7th Dec 2018, 21:38
  #5460 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 320
Happened at my previous too. Layovers reduced. Iíve always said JSS is only the first step of the grand plan [camera draws away to show white cat being stroked on a leather armchair] . JSS well placed to exploit holes in bidline rules which were specifically written with a sister system in mind. That system gone, tweaks to BLR already been happening for ages.

Limit the line hoarding of the newly created high credit 3 day LAXs etc with limits (sold to the workers as being of benefit to juniors). Then theyíre sprinkled about the demographic forcing most rosters to contain more plentiful low credit items. Any day at home benefits nicely put up in smoke, Man hours utilisation achieved. Just one way [camera shows white cat now purring and weird kinky gloved hand reaches for the brandy glass]

BA. Can be a fantastic place to work. Donít forget that those looking in. Itís not entire gloom. No one saying that. But the blacks are swamping the whites now. So the positives are holding less and less currency with each change. Especially if youíre junior trash like a lot of us. Such a shame. Itís increasingly draining. Often intimidating, not unfair to say almost Stasi-esque through its own actions sometimes (surveil your workers travel on personal time anyone?) and sometimes the comms read a little like a mafioso internal newsletter from the capos.

They now want champagne workers on a beer budget and they donít mind admitting it. Thatís bad. Very bad. That theyíre starting to talk openly about it, amid such vast profits. If you join your joining a firm thatís making a fortune where terms are on a down slope. Theyíre not worried. Post bagís full apparantly. And I think theyíre telling the truth to be fair. It really will come down to personal choice.

I hope the union better will not suggest giving anything up for the ďpay rise?. If anything Iíd rather they treat lifestyle as a priority, like air. Itís up against the ropes as is. No concessions please.


looks like I picked the wrong year to quit sniffing glue.
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