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Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 1st Jun 2019, 18:16
  #6301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: U.K.
Posts: 107
Recruitment automatic email FAQs:

I was unsuccessful at a previous British Airways recruitment application, when can I reapply?

If you had stumbled at the initial online application screening stage, you would be eligible to apply again after 6 months. If you attended Waterside for any of the subsequent selection stages, the wait is 12 months from the date of testing, or 6 months from any other stage of application whichever is the greater.

TheAirMission is online now  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 10:27
  #6302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Here there and everywhere...
Posts: 35
Maybe not the ideal thread for this queation, but how will the LHR ULEZ affect BA employees and their ability to park at LHR?

Are BA employees essentially going to have to pay to go to work and park in a private vehicle?

Has this issue been raised internally or by the Union?

Just curious.

Thanks.
Mrglass is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 11:01
  #6303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Mrglass View Post
Maybe not the ideal thread for this queation, but how will the LHR ULEZ affect BA employees and their ability to park at LHR?

Are BA employees essentially going to have to pay to go to work and park in a private vehicle?

Has this issue been raised internally or by the Union?

Just curious.

Thanks.
Isn’t it just for drop off and pick up?
Otherwise that would suck.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 12:09
  #6304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,392
I think you are correct AH....Heathrow media statement here.

As I understand it from other sources those working at the airport will be exempt from the charges.




Last edited by wiggy; 2nd Jun 2019 at 12:20.
wiggy is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2019, 11:27
  #6305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Onboard
Posts: 20
I heard there has been some mass resignations on B777 recently ?
You we’re misled.
Toolonginthisjob is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 08:02
  #6306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,392
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
I heard there has been some mass resignations on B777 recently ?
As Toolong says it’s definitely “Fake News”, though in various forms it has been circulating for a few days. Don’t know why how or why it started and FWIW yours is the first version where it’s been tagged as being associated with a specific fleet.
wiggy is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 09:19
  #6307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 564
I expect it is a case of Chinese whispers. There are more than a few people looking at other airlines and hoping to leave, which has then morphed into ‘mass resignations’.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 11:29
  #6308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: York
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
I expect it is a case of Chinese whispers. There are more than a few people looking at other airlines and hoping to leave, which has then morphed into ‘mass resignations’.
Although you say, ‘Chinese whispers’/rumour or whatever... as someone who has always hoped, considered, been intrigued with working for their national carrier... where would a 777 bod (I accept it was mentioned the rumour was tagged to 777) be potentially looking to go? I get the debate on the 320 vs Easy DEC... but for a longhaul guy/gal who’s living at home you take the rough with the smooth, generally living with the niggles that every company has (there is no perfect company). Not much else going on longhaul in the UK at the moment or is there - Virgin, TUI? Commuting contract overseas? or are these folks young, super junior and being screwed by the bidding system and looking to earn a few bucks wherever they can get it?
bananaman2 is online now  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 12:05
  #6309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 260
I hear it can reach 6 trips per month on the 777. That's more than a niggle - I used to just about cope with four, 5 would wipe me out, but six!!! That's really really unhealthy, to the extent I would personally quit flying if I couldn't find something else less damaging.
Joe le Taxi is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 12:22
  #6310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 259
I’m constantly amazed by the way this industry works. In many ways it’s very safe - we learn from our past and are constantly striving to improve. Why, then, has the industry allowed pilot (and presumably cabin crew) rostering to get to the stage where you are flying 6 long haul trips per month. That HAS to be dangerous.

Will it take a catastrophic hull loss attributed entirely to roster induced fatigue before the industry wakes up and sees how absurd things are getting?
Busdriver01 is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 12:58
  #6311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1
Advice for initial assessment

Hello,
I'm aware this thread had been going for a while and Ive looked over thtjs thread for the last while.

Is there any recommendations on preparing for the initial stage. On previous attempts I always thought I had prepared enough but apparently not.

thanks in advance
Captainrawdata is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 13:15
  #6312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 362
Originally Posted by bananaman2 View Post
...where would a 777 bod (I accept it was mentioned the rumour was tagged to 777) be potentially looking to go?
If the rumour was to be believed, the golf course or the Sunseeker.
Tay Cough is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2019, 14:01
  #6313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by Busdriver01 View Post
Will it take a catastrophic hull loss attributed entirely to roster induced fatigue before the industry wakes up and sees how absurd things are getting?
Even if that were to happen, you can guarantee that airlines would simply find a way of pinning the blame on the pilot for reporting for work fatigued in the first place. It's all over the manuals - "pilots should not operate if they suspect they are fatigued". Clearly it's written with about as much sincerity as BA's latest box-ticking email on mental health, but it's something they'll still gladly point to in the event of any fatigue related incident.

Which is why we continue to be our own worst enemy. In BA especially, I have been astounded at how many people relentlessly soldier on through some of the most appalling roster sequences I've ever seen (6/1 and repeat on SH), as if their own health is irrelevant and reporting fatigued isn't even an option. Perhaps if more people told the company where to shove it, things would eventually change - working everyone to the bone would then become counter productive. I've not been in BA long, but I myself have already had far more roster-induced sickness here than my previous airline. The problem however is encouraging more people to say enough is enough. BA have played a blinder by instilling a culture of fear that seemingly dissuades people from doing so.

One would hope of course that eventually companies like BA will acknowledge (forcibly or otherwise) that rostering everyone to the extremes of EASA is unsustainable and ultimately costs more when people finally fall over later down the line. KLM certainly made a step in the right direction when they awarded their pilots a 4% pay increase along with a 4% reduction in work. It's a shame BA still have the blinkers so firmly in place.
FACoff is online now  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 09:15
  #6314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: England
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
Even if that were to happen, you can guarantee that airlines would simply find a way of pinning the blame on the pilot for reporting for work fatigued in the first place. It's all over the manuals - "pilots should not operate if they suspect they are fatigued". Clearly it's written with about as much sincerity as BA's latest box-ticking email on mental health, but it's something they'll still gladly point to in the event of any fatigue related incident.

Which is why we continue to be our own worst enemy. In BA especially, I have been astounded at how many people relentlessly soldier on through some of the most appalling roster sequences I've ever seen (6/1 and repeat on SH), as if their own health is irrelevant and reporting fatigued isn't even an option. Perhaps if more people told the company where to shove it, things would eventually change - working everyone to the bone would then become counter productive. I've not been in BA long, but I myself have already had far more roster-induced sickness here than my previous airline. The problem however is encouraging more people to say enough is enough. BA have played a blinder by instilling a culture of fear that seemingly dissuades people from doing so.

One would hope of course that eventually companies like BA will acknowledge (forcibly or otherwise) that rostering everyone to the extremes of EASA is unsustainable and ultimately costs more when people finally fall over later down the line. KLM certainly made a step in the right direction when they awarded their pilots a 4% pay increase along with a 4% reduction in work. It's a shame BA still have the blinkers so firmly in place.
Well said. Also a recent new joiner and have noticed the same mentality of refusing to report fatigued. Some people will work any roster at all and still report.
Thegreenmachine is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 10:08
  #6315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,013
Originally Posted by Thegreenmachine View Post
Well said. Also a recent new joiner and have noticed the same mentality of refusing to report fatigued. Some people will work any roster at all and still report.
Is it not a problem partially of the workforces making though? If you have huge constraints placed on rostering by a seniority based system that has junior guys picking up multiple low credit trips, because those above them are picking out the highly credit dense stuff, leaving the scraps at the bottom?
VinRouge is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 10:51
  #6316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,392
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
Is it not a problem partially of the workforces making though? If you have huge constraints placed on rostering by a seniority based system that has junior guys picking up multiple low credit trips, because those above them are picking out the highly credit dense stuff, leaving the scraps at the bottom?
Partly that, though that is something that the somewhat controversial JSS inhibitors are meant to mitigate by putting a limit on credit dense trips per individual per month.. ,

As for the resistance to “going fatigued” which has been noted, I think a lot of that is down to historic reasons:

Certainly “in the old days” where your working hours were (possibly, certainly in Long Haul on some fleets) much more likely to be capped by time away from base (I.e. TAFB/4) than flying hours there was a mindset that “no-one gets fatigued under Bidline”/“no-one gets fatigued at BA”. Of course rostering has morphed over the years but that attitude is still very much entrenched in the institutional memory. It is certainly interesting to hear many of the newer DEPs explain how relatively straightforward it was to declare fatigue at their previous operator vs. how difficult it can appear to be at BA.





wiggy is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 11:36
  #6317 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,013
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


Partly that, though that is something that the somewhat controversial JSS inhibitors are meant to mitigate by putting a limit on credit dense trips per individual per month.. ,


Not sure how limiting to 3 ABV and 3 JFK is supposed to mitigate fatigue though. Needs to be done by limiting the max number of trips operating in the WOCL if fatigue were the target... EASA is unrealistically too focused upon time zone changes that have little to nil effect on fatigue with the time spent away.
VinRouge is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 11:49
  #6318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,392
Originally Posted by VinRouge View Post
Not sure how limiting to 3 ABV and 3 JFK is supposed to mitigate fatigue though.
True...but then again there are some contrary so and so’s around and one person’s bad JFK is another persons good one..

Needs to be done by limiting the max number of trips operating in the WOCL if fatigue were the target
Looking at the Long Haul schedules I’d be seriously impressed if somebody can find a way of doing that...apart from the few oddballs you almost always end up operating in the WOCL at some point.

apart from the EASA is unrealistically too focused upon time zone changes that have little to nil effect on fatigue with the time spent away.
Agreed.

wiggy is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 12:32
  #6319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 605
To add some perspective to how fatigue is managed at 2 other UK airlines I've worked for.

Call crewing.

"Im fatigued for my duty"
"Ok I'll take you off"
"Thanks bye"

And you'd never hear about it again from anyone. No follow up phone call or email. All you would have to do is fill in a fatigue questionnaire as to what caused your fatigue. And anything from jet lag, to a night flight to a screaming baby at home are perfectly acceptable reasons. In fact, you're completely untouchable when you go fatigued. More so than if you call sick.
pudoc is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2019, 13:05
  #6320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,013
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


Looking at the Long Haul schedules I’d be seriously impressed if somebody can find a way of doing that...apart from the few oddballs you almost always end up operating in the WOCL at some point.
you do, but my point is if you end up doing 6 2 man low credit trips as opposed to 4x 3/4 man, with 4-6 hours in the bunk and 3 Local nights rest trips when you get back, one is not sustainable long term and the other one is. Guess which trips filter to the bottom.

That said, the culture imho is very different to the one represented above. I am curious to see if views are based upon actual bad experience or perception of how one would be treated. I’ve not heard bad things from people who have needed to take a little recovery time, it’s a shame those views are not represented above.
VinRouge is offline  

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