Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 18th Mar 2019, 20:27
  #6141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by zero/zero View Post
I stand ready to be corrected but youíre quoting LGW P1 figures, where a lower local pay scale combined with mainline pension makes for a big difference. For a PP34 Mainline LH Captain, the pensionable pay is less than his basic.
Not sure which figures you're looking at but for every year on the PP34 P1 Mainline scale, every pensionable pay point is higher than the basic with the exception of PP1, some of PP2, PP33 and PP34. The figure I chose for the biggest difference is SH PP24 where the difference is over 40k.

LGW doesn't have a lower payscale though, it's identical to LHR SH, just with a cap.
Stocious is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 05:42
  #6142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 656
You can bid for reserve, though probably struggle to get it from Sep to Dec, when pilots start strategically bidding for their Christmas roster . To be honest, reserve isn’t a bad gig if you live within 2 hours of the car park and don’t mind being flexible. The last few reserves months I’ve done, I’ve sat at home on call or visited my parents and counted that as a day off if not called. I ended up with an average of 18 days “off” each month. I accept that you don’t know it’s a day free of duty until the end of the standby period, but if you are happy to be flexible and drop what you are doing if the company call, then it’s not a bad gig. I know some junior guys were doing 4 a year on some fleets and gaining another 4 weeks off a year with the 7 day fixed days off block.
hunterboy is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 07:14
  #6143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,364
Originally Posted by Jock Trapped View Post


Could I ask about reserve months? I read somewhere here that they include 7 days in a row free of duty? Obviously that would include a weekend. Can you bid for reserve or is it just allocated to you from time to time?
In the context of Longhaul as was mentioned upthread the first 7 days are days free of duty which will include a weekend off.

You bid for reserve but there's an associated points system and also tier/banding system tied into time in the company so your "time to time" can be fairly often though you can't be "assigned" (i.e. forced) to do two reserves in consecutive months.

As hunterboy has correctly pointed out if you live within 2 hours of the airport Reserve can work to your advantage if you are prepared to live with a bit of uncertainty.
wiggy is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 07:49
  #6144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by Justanothervoice View Post
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

A friend sent me a chunk of sample rosters of junior FO rosters off a cross section of long haul fleets fleets. From some very rough calculations it seems like weekend days off are going to be at a premium.

Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays clear of any duty: 24% (35% Including leave)
Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays was partially off (Allowing for approximately 8 hours of leisure time after a duty) : 16%
Percentage of weekends where both Saturdays and Sundays where spent on duty or away in trip: 59%
Percentage of weekends when the whole weekend was clear of duty: 17% (30% including leave)

Is there anyone who can tell me if these figures are realistic?

Thanks again for any input.
We were told at a BA presentation that it takes about 7 years seniority to get at least 1 weekend day of regularly. The first 3-4 years very unlikely to get a full weekend off. The pilots were quite honest showed us loads of rosters.

If you have a young family with partner working as well it wonít be easy.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 08:14
  #6145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,364
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
We were told at a BA presentation that it takes about 7 years seniority to get at least 1 weekend day of regularly.

I'm looking right now at some Longhaul (very new) DEP rosters ( middle 4000 seniority) and FWIW there are a few some with single weekend days off (i.e; the Saturday or the Sunday completely clear)..but certainly not many, and there a lot of rosters where every weekend day of the month (April)is touched by work.

There are very very few who can guarantee regularly getting a particular specific weekend day off, to do that on a regular basis you need to be extremely senior (left or right seat). That was certainly the case under Bidline and looks like being the case underJSS.

..and it is tough on family life, hence the attractiveness of the various part time contracts

Last edited by wiggy; 19th Mar 2019 at 08:37.
wiggy is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 09:07
  #6146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post

..and it is tough on family life, hence the attractiveness of the various part time contracts
Thanks for all the info Wiggy, as a potential new joiner, hopefully faced with that decision in the near future, itís really useful to be looking at a DEP role with eyes open.

Does anyone know how accommodating BA are wrt parental leave, not for a new born, but the govít allocation of unpaid weeks upto 18yrs old. Thinking using that, along with reserve, leave, and an understanding other half may all make the move manageable re lifestyle.
Jock Trapped is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:13
  #6147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 141
When I was at BA you had to complete 12 months’ service before parental leave was an option. Then, you could email them and they’d email back with dates available for your fleet / seat. They were accommodating in so far as they have to offer it but not so accommodating with regards to when it was available. Ultimately family life was unmanageable for me as a junior longhaul FO who lived more than 2 hrs from LHR.
skyflyer737 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:44
  #6148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 359
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post


We were told at a BA presentation that it takes about 7 years seniority to get at least 1 weekend day of regularly. The first 3-4 years very unlikely to get a full weekend off. The pilots were quite honest showed us loads of rosters.

If you have a young family with partner working as well it wonít be easy.
You can guarantee a weekend off every month at pretty much any seniority by doing reserve. Not ideal for the other three weeks - but in desperation...

As mentioned, as a junior bod you should be able to get a Saturday or a Sunday most months. What you wonít be able to guarantee is a specific one. You may be able to be a bit picky about specific midweek days (probably not a Friday) but thatís about it.

In short, if you need specific weekend days off - especially if itís every month - you will not be able to achieve them at BA, irrespective of fleet, until you have been in for several years.
Tay Cough is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 13:17
  #6149 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by Tay Cough View Post
As mentioned, as a junior bod you should be able to get a Saturday or a Sunday most months.
Wow that sounds beyond horrific for anyone with a life outside of work; be it family or social and/or a combination of the two.


VJW is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 16:51
  #6150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,078
Iíve been in 8 years. I regularly get at least one of the weekend days off a month. Either by landing early on a Saturday and subsequently having the Sunday off, or departing on a Sunday, therefore getting the Saturday off. I honestly donít specifically bit for that, itís just how it seems to work out. Donít forget a lot of guys donít care about working weekends. Everyone has different ideas of what is good or not. Spending a Saturday night in Accra could be for you!

Dont forget we we do have our six golden days per year. These are days on a first come first served basis where you bid for a specific 1-2 days off. Seniority doesnít come into it.

I am LH, and I canít speak for SH, as I left that a few years ago. I donít recall it being too bad though. No ideas under JSS.

At LGW there are other ways of getting out of duties and swapping stuff with those in charge in the office, as long as you were reasonable and flexible.

no sponsor is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 17:16
  #6151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,364
I get the impression that the issue that might be raising eyebrows for some at the moment is the difficulty (or not) in getting a specific day off on a regular basis, perhaps to tie in with domestic issues such as a partner's working arrangements or children's activities..

I'm inclined to say it can't be done without going part time, but as you say the newly introduced Golden Days might provide a solution 6 days of the year.
wiggy is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 20:14
  #6152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 379
JSS is terrible at the bottom. I essentially bid for all work, anything, everything but please limit my day trip to 4 or less. Result.....fall back and 14, possibly 15 reports to LHR. I live well within the required 90 minutes but that is more than 1 and a half days driving!

There are some benefits to JSS but the protections and inhibitors need adjusting. As has been mentioned weekend work is not a issue. Has anyone actually tried to go anywhere at the weekend? Nightmare! Give me a week day off most of the time thanks
bex88 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 11:50
  #6153 (permalink)  
Junior trash
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
The vast majority of the most junior Capts and FOs are doing plenty of 2 - 5 day tours though, so its something in your bid that's putting you in fallback not a fundamental result of JSS.

By limiting JSS even in your lowest BG to 4 day trips in a month on a short haul fleet you are seriously harming JSSs ability to create a roster. Surely it would be better gradually relaxing that limit and not going into fallback and at least getting some of what you want?
Hotel Mode is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 11:58
  #6154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
I wouldnt have thought that requesting a maximum of 4 day trips in a month to be unreasonable ?, especially for some one who is perhaps a commuter or someone who just prefers night stops and doesnt mind where / when / with whom ? I agree JSS just doesnt work when your near the bottom ( by near I mean less than 50%)
red9 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 12:07
  #6155 (permalink)  
Junior trash
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
I wouldnt have thought that requesting a maximum of 4 day trips in a month to be unreasonable ?, especially for some one who is perhaps a commuter or someone who just prefers night stops and doesnt mind where / when / with whom ? I agree JSS just doesnt work when your near the bottom ( by near I mean less than 50%)
No, its not. I'm not saying don't bid for only 4, but, if JSS needs to give you 5 for whatever reason do you really want lose every other preference? Just gradually release the requirement until JSS can produce a roster. Limiting day trips to 4 is a very powerful bid.
Hotel Mode is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 15:09
  #6156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 379
Its not a bidding issue 100% guarantee. Even the JSS trainers are powerless to help. It’s a JSS issue
bex88 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 16:29
  #6157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 21
Are you in the ex bmi bubble? Could have something to do with it
WhatTheDeuce is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 16:38
  #6158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 379
It may have a lot to do with it.

Is it different?
bex88 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 17:37
  #6159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
It may have a lot to do with it.

Is it different?
It shouldnt be, but it is.........
red9 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 20:29
  #6160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 21
I think as your group is 1/3 the size of the other pool it leads to reduced satisfaction towards the bottom of the list.

Especially as each group has to whittle down to only one trip per day leftover on global constraints.

That, combined with the lack of movement up the list for eternity, were the shocking outcomes of your former colleagues volunteering you under the bus at the last zipper vote.
WhatTheDeuce is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.