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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 17th Mar 2019, 14:54
  #6141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by Stocious View Post
BA Pension contributions are based on a seperate 'Pensionable pay' payscale however, which for me is nominally £12k higher than my basic pay.
I'd suggest that the current BA workforce are pretty united at the moment though, given the most recent ballot!
PP1 Ďpensionable payí from the current MoA is £57403 under BARP (what a new joiner will get). Year 1 at Virgin is £77000.

The fact that there are 3 different pension schemes and 2 different salary scales in the company suggests something other than a united workforce. Thatís before we start talking about JSS and the differences thatís created between the most junior and the most senior.
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Old 17th Mar 2019, 15:50
  #6142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 176
Good for Virgin. I still won't be applying to join.

For every year after PP1, it;s higher than the basic pay, all the way up to £40k more on the P1 payscale.
BARP doesn't exist any more, and only one pension scheme now for us all. In fact the only differing thing for us now is PP24 vs PP34 but that's hardly going to affect new joiners is it?
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Old 17th Mar 2019, 16:21
  #6143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by Stocious View Post
Good for Virgin. I still won't be applying to join.

For every year after PP1, it;s higher than the basic pay, all the way up to £40k more on the P1 payscale.
BARP doesn't exist any more, and only one pension scheme now for us all. In fact the only differing thing for us now is PP24 vs PP34 but that's hardly going to affect new joiners is it?
I stand ready to be corrected but youíre quoting LGW P1 figures, where a lower local pay scale combined with mainline pension makes for a big difference. For a PP34 Mainline LH Captain, the pensionable pay is less than his basic.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 11:55
  #6144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Approaching TOMBI
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Scatter gun reply whilst you wait for a junior pilot to reply:

HTH
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

A friend sent me a chunk of sample rosters of junior FO rosters off a cross section of long haul fleets fleets. From some very rough calculations it seems like weekend days off are going to be at a premium.

Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays clear of any duty: 24% (35% Including leave)
Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays was partially off (Allowing for approximately 8 hours of leisure time after a duty) : 16%
Percentage of weekends where both Saturdays and Sundays where spent on duty or away in trip: 59%
Percentage of weekends when the whole weekend was clear of duty: 17% (30% including leave)

Is there anyone who can tell me if these figures are realistic?

Thanks again for any input.

Last edited by Justanothervoice; 18th Mar 2019 at 14:10. Reason: Clarity and grammar
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 14:02
  #6145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 66
24% would suggest one in four week ends off , which I find hard to believe - having been over 12 months personally without a week end off - and I am not quite at the bottom of the pile.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 14:18
  #6146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Approaching TOMBI
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by red9 View Post
24% would suggest one in four week ends off , which I find hard to believe - having been over 12 months personally without a week end off - and I am not quite at the bottom of the pile.
Sorry, my post was poorly worded. I have corrected it now. Looking through the rosters, only 17% of weekends were off while 24% percent of weekends had a duty either starting or ending on a Saturday or Sunday. 59% of the weekends where were completely taken up by trips.

Your reply does seem to tie into what I was which was an awful lot of people could go through a whole month without having even one Saturday or Sunday off.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 16:53
  #6147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 66
" a whole month" - try 12 months +
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 17:25
  #6148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 48
Not had a weekend off besides leave on SH... been here nearly 12 months.
MikeAlpha320 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:17
  #6149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8
Could someone give me some more information about this requirement? What exactly is it?

5 GCSEís including Mathís, English and Science (excluding General studies and Critical
Thinking) grade C and above plus 112 UCAS points according to the 2017 UCAS point
system or equivalent.
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:19
  #6150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 39
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
Not had a weekend off besides leave on SH... been here nearly 12 months.
12 months, so no weekend of during 9 months of Blindlines under the old bidline system and neither during the 3 months of JSS?

At least JSS produces simular results as the old system then. Looking at the junior SH roster they look very similar as the old blindlines and junior trip lines.

Good thing is on SH your seniority will go up far quicker then as a DEP LH and within BA you only have to be junior once!
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 19:46
  #6151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by Jumbo2 View Post
... within BA you only have to be junior once!
This is indeed true, but in reality this means refusing command and therefore an effective pay cut in order to have a liveable lifestyle
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Old 18th Mar 2019, 20:07
  #6152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
Not had a weekend off besides leave on SH... been here nearly 12 months.
Could I ask about reserve months? I read somewhere here that they include 7 days in a row free of duty? Obviously that would include a weekend. Can you bid for reserve or is it just allocated to you from time to time?
Jock Trapped is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2019, 20:27
  #6153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by zero/zero View Post
I stand ready to be corrected but youíre quoting LGW P1 figures, where a lower local pay scale combined with mainline pension makes for a big difference. For a PP34 Mainline LH Captain, the pensionable pay is less than his basic.
Not sure which figures you're looking at but for every year on the PP34 P1 Mainline scale, every pensionable pay point is higher than the basic with the exception of PP1, some of PP2, PP33 and PP34. The figure I chose for the biggest difference is SH PP24 where the difference is over 40k.

LGW doesn't have a lower payscale though, it's identical to LHR SH, just with a cap.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 05:42
  #6154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 577
You can bid for reserve, though probably struggle to get it from Sep to Dec, when pilots start strategically bidding for their Christmas roster . To be honest, reserve isn’t a bad gig if you live within 2 hours of the car park and don’t mind being flexible. The last few reserves months I’ve done, I’ve sat at home on call or visited my parents and counted that as a day off if not called. I ended up with an average of 18 days “off” each month. I accept that you don’t know it’s a day free of duty until the end of the standby period, but if you are happy to be flexible and drop what you are doing if the company call, then it’s not a bad gig. I know some junior guys were doing 4 a year on some fleets and gaining another 4 weeks off a year with the 7 day fixed days off block.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 07:14
  #6155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,143
Originally Posted by Jock Trapped View Post


Could I ask about reserve months? I read somewhere here that they include 7 days in a row free of duty? Obviously that would include a weekend. Can you bid for reserve or is it just allocated to you from time to time?
In the context of Longhaul as was mentioned upthread the first 7 days are days free of duty which will include a weekend off.

You bid for reserve but there's an associated points system and also tier/banding system tied into time in the company so your "time to time" can be fairly often though you can't be "assigned" (i.e. forced) to do two reserves in consecutive months.

As hunterboy has correctly pointed out if you live within 2 hours of the airport Reserve can work to your advantage if you are prepared to live with a bit of uncertainty.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 07:49
  #6156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by Justanothervoice View Post
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

A friend sent me a chunk of sample rosters of junior FO rosters off a cross section of long haul fleets fleets. From some very rough calculations it seems like weekend days off are going to be at a premium.

Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays clear of any duty: 24% (35% Including leave)
Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays was partially off (Allowing for approximately 8 hours of leisure time after a duty) : 16%
Percentage of weekends where both Saturdays and Sundays where spent on duty or away in trip: 59%
Percentage of weekends when the whole weekend was clear of duty: 17% (30% including leave)

Is there anyone who can tell me if these figures are realistic?

Thanks again for any input.
We were told at a BA presentation that it takes about 7 years seniority to get at least 1 weekend day of regularly. The first 3-4 years very unlikely to get a full weekend off. The pilots were quite honest showed us loads of rosters.

If you have a young family with partner working as well it wonít be easy.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 08:14
  #6157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,143
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
We were told at a BA presentation that it takes about 7 years seniority to get at least 1 weekend day of regularly.

I'm looking right now at some Longhaul (very new) DEP rosters ( middle 4000 seniority) and FWIW there are a few some with single weekend days off (i.e; the Saturday or the Sunday completely clear)..but certainly not many, and there a lot of rosters where every weekend day of the month (April)is touched by work.

There are very very few who can guarantee regularly getting a particular specific weekend day off, to do that on a regular basis you need to be extremely senior (left or right seat). That was certainly the case under Bidline and looks like being the case underJSS.

..and it is tough on family life, hence the attractiveness of the various part time contracts

Last edited by wiggy; 19th Mar 2019 at 08:37.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 09:07
  #6158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post

..and it is tough on family life, hence the attractiveness of the various part time contracts
Thanks for all the info Wiggy, as a potential new joiner, hopefully faced with that decision in the near future, itís really useful to be looking at a DEP role with eyes open.

Does anyone know how accommodating BA are wrt parental leave, not for a new born, but the govít allocation of unpaid weeks upto 18yrs old. Thinking using that, along with reserve, leave, and an understanding other half may all make the move manageable re lifestyle.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:13
  #6159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 136
When I was at BA you had to complete 12 months’ service before parental leave was an option. Then, you could email them and they’d email back with dates available for your fleet / seat. They were accommodating in so far as they have to offer it but not so accommodating with regards to when it was available. Ultimately family life was unmanageable for me as a junior longhaul FO who lived more than 2 hrs from LHR.
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Old 19th Mar 2019, 10:44
  #6160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post


We were told at a BA presentation that it takes about 7 years seniority to get at least 1 weekend day of regularly. The first 3-4 years very unlikely to get a full weekend off. The pilots were quite honest showed us loads of rosters.

If you have a young family with partner working as well it wonít be easy.
You can guarantee a weekend off every month at pretty much any seniority by doing reserve. Not ideal for the other three weeks - but in desperation...

As mentioned, as a junior bod you should be able to get a Saturday or a Sunday most months. What you wonít be able to guarantee is a specific one. You may be able to be a bit picky about specific midweek days (probably not a Friday) but thatís about it.

In short, if you need specific weekend days off - especially if itís every month - you will not be able to achieve them at BA, irrespective of fleet, until you have been in for several years.
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